Doing Battle To Uninstall Or Upgrade On Windows Mobile 5

[Ed Hansberry]

As <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,44488">I wrote a few months ago,</a> the installation process on Windows Mobile 5 has greatly improved over Pocket PC 2003SE and earlier as you always can control the destination file store to install to - either directly on the device or any number of storage cards you may have available. However, the uninstall process, for me at least, is horrible, and upgrading is an even worse process. Here is how it worked for me under Windows Mobile 2003SE.<br /><br />1: Start|Settings|System|Remove Programs<br />2: Select the program and tap Remove.<br /><br />That was it. You might have to soft reset before doing this to ensure the app isn't running, or manually close it with a task killer, but beyond that, very trouble free. Not so Windows Mobile 5. I have had a Windows Mobile 5 device since November. Two in fact, a JasJar and K-Jam. In those four months, I have <i>never</i> successfully upgraded an application and have never had a smooth uninstallation. I always have to soft reset to get an uninstall to work, and even then it doesn't always help. I have the Think Outside Stowaway 4.3 bluetooth driver installed on my K-Jam and it <i><b>will not come off!</b></i> The uninstall always fails no matter what I try. 4.4 won't install over it either. For that matter, 4.3 won't install over itself. If fails every single time. So, I have a nice $99 keyboard that is useless to me until Think Outside either gives me the steps to manually remove it (all registry keys, DLL's, etc. that the driver uses) or I hard reset. :evil: <br /><br />This is not a Think Outside issue though. I have had the same problem with Ilium Software's ListPro and eWallet, Resco's File Explorer and Laridian's Pocket Bible. Apparently Windows Mobile 5 has an upgrade logic that first removes the existing version of the app before installing the new version. I have no clue how effective that is because it never works for me. My upgrade process goes like this.<br /><br />1: Dock the device and install the upgrade from the desktop.<br />2: Tell the device to upgrade, answering YES to the "remove previous version" prompt.<br />3: Answer OK when it fails.<br />4: Mumble under my breath<br />5: Undock the device<br />6: Try the "Remove Programs" utility to remove the app myself.<br />7: Answer OK when that fails. (more mumbling goes here, usually at a slightly higher decibel level)<br />8: Soft reset<br />9: Try "Remove Programs" again. This <i>usually</i> works, but not always, as I discussed above.<br />10: If #9 worked, dock the device and install the app again from the desktop.<br /><br />Steps 11-<i>n</i> involve reconfiguring all my preferences for the app, because step 9 removed them all! :roll: It gets worse too. Let's say you have an app that usually is just a CAB file and you just want to install the app on your new device to the storage card. The executable is already there because the storage card either came from a previous device or you have done a hard reset for some reason. The install will fail if you install to the same folder with absolutely <i>no</i> no explanation. It took several tries before I figured out if I manually removed the application .exe file or the folder itself that it would then work.<br /><br />But wait! There's even more goodness. Resco has this cool little app called "Resco Update" that it puts in the Start|Programs folder. Tap it and it scans your device for all Resco apps, collects version numbers then compares that to what is online and lets you download and install the latest versions. Well, guess what happened the first time I ran it? The "Resco Update" utility itself needed an update. Are you with me here? It downloads, starts to install, tries to remove itself, fails. I have to manually remove it. Now guess what? I have no "Resco Update" on my device to upgrade! Pretty much out of luck until I get back to my desktop. :evil: <br /><br />It is extremely frustrating. I <i>know</i> I am behind on my free updates too. Resco has a new version of Resco File Explorer that I haven't bothered with because the frustration of steps 1-10 above, plus all of the manual tweaking, just aren't worth it. :? What about you? Is it just me or are others of you with WM5 seeing this?

[code-frog]

I wonder if some other application you have installed is causing the problem?

I have a PPC-6700 (Sprint) w/WM-5 and have been downright calous to it.

I've installed several of the ISWebMail products and removed them forgetting to soft reset first. Getting the error reinstalling (to get clean uninstall) soft resetting then uninstalling.

I've had a nightmare with SPB Pocket Weather, Pocket Diary (until the released their latest WM-5 compatible weather) and did horrible uninstall/reinstall of SPBWeatherB.exe (I think that was the name from the SPB FAQ).

Anyway, I've completely been STOOOOPID with my device and it's been very forgiving. I've upgraded Pocket Vehicle Manager and installed right over the top of it. I've definitely upgraded Pocket Controller Pro like ... 3 times I think.

I've had no issues at all like what you describe. But then I don't use Bluetooth. I've never tried to uninstall something that had a direct link to hardware...

If I was you though I'd do a full backup then hard reset then start adding applications and see if one of them makes it hard to upgrade. Yes, this is painful and tedious but I don't know you'll get an answer or visibility to the problem without doing so.

Anyway, if this was helpful at all...

- Rex

[DaleReeck]

I have no problems uninstalling apps on a Sprint 6700. But upgrading software is another matter. Even if you are upgrading in place, you are forced to uninstall the old version first, which in 75% of the cases, wipes out saved settings, configurations and serial number info. Didn't it occur to anyone at MS that people would like to upgrade existing software on their PPC without having to reconfigure anything? WM5/AS4 is a step back in so many ways.

But app makers share some blame too. Software uninstalls never have removed registry entires, just files. This goes back to the orignal PPC 2000. I don't think I've ever seen an app uninstall where I didn't have to go in and delete unneeded registry keys myself. Very sloppy.

[ccharris1]

I tried for 5 days to get WM5 to work on a Dell X51v. (Wonderful device, horrible software!) Lock-ups, computer reboots during syncs, etc. I returned it to Dell.

I have read some posts that say WM5 is worth it if you can get through the necesssary tweaks. Sorry, but I don't have the time. I ended up with a refurbished 2755 with WM2003se. The previous generation WM is stable and I can use WiFi to synchronize.

After all I've read about WM5, I'll wait for another generation.

If the likes of Ed Hansberry has trouble, what does that say about the software?

Craig.

[DustyLBottoms]

Maybe that's why HP has taken so long with the hx4700 WM 5.0 upgrade - they're getting all bugs like that out of it. *crosses fingers*
:?

[zorglub26]

What about you? Is it just me or are others of you with WM5 seeing this?

This is what happened to me yesterday. Sounds very similar to your story.

1) Tried to Install Splashphoto 4.41 on top of 4.32
2) Failed, failed and failed again
3) Tried to remove 4.32 - failed. Asked me if I wanted to remove from the remove list, I said Yes (big mistake!)
4) Tried to remove with SKTools, I can't because it is not on the list...
5) I check and it is still in my Programs, and it is still functionning. But now I cannot upgrade, and I cannot uninstall...
6) Installed 4.32 on top of 4.32...
7) Program now shows in the "remove" list again
8) Standard uninstall: Success!!
9) Installed 4.41: Success!

That was way harder than it should have been...

[zorglub26]

I tried for 5 days to get WM5 to work on a Dell X51v. (Wonderful device, horrible software!) Lock-ups, computer reboots during syncs, etc. I returned it to Dell.

I have read some posts that say WM5 is worth it if you can get through the necesssary tweaks. Sorry, but I don't have the time. I ended up with a refurbished 2755 with WM2003se. The previous generation WM is stable and I can use WiFi to synchronize.

After all I've read about WM5, I'll wait for another generation.

If the likes of Ed Hansberry has trouble, what does that say about the software?

Craig.

It's funny guys, because I am relatively new to PPCs, and I have a different experience w/ WM5. I was a big Palm Addict, and I had tried Compaq w/ 2002, a Dell 50v w/ 2003, and I did not like them at all. But when my TX died on me, I bought an Axim51v, and I love it. It is not a horrible OS. It's not perfect, but it is very usable, and I put a bunch of programs on mine. Yes, I had a probelm with install/upgarde/uninstall yesterday, but otherwise things have been smooth. I like it better than 2002 and 2003, definitely.

[Ward]

It gets worse. Sometimes the tracking of installed programs fails and every program you install after doesn't make it onto the add/remove list. So if you're trialling a complex program like SPB Plus and decide its no good - tough. It won't uninstall, because its not there! Backups do not fix this - Hard reset time...

[Lex]

In light of these reports I have zero use for a WM5 device. Sounds like an OS not ready for market. Thanks Microsoft, for letting the public beta test for you.

[jngold_me]

In light of these reports I have zero use for a WM5 device. Sounds like an OS not ready for market. Thanks Microsoft, for letting the public beta test for you.

Your loss. WM5 works just fine for my personal and professional needs. If I want to uninstall an application, I use SKTools. Previous versions of the OS also did a poor job of true uninstalls.

WM5 may have its bug-a-boos, but it is certainly an improvement over 2k3SE .

[daS]

I've also had problems installing apps. It seems that limited RAM space on the JasJar might be the issue. That's because I think that the install (and perhaps uninstall) uses the RAM space during the process. I have had many failures where moving programs from the StartUp folder (especially Voice Command) followed by a soft-reset, allows enough space to accomplish the install task. Then I have to put back my StartUp apps and soft-reset again.

Certainly a pain, :evil: but the JasJar is still worth it. :wink:

[doc]

I have a PPC-6700 and installed the trial version of MS Voice Command. Hey, for $40 I want to make sure it's really worth it ;-) After the trial expired I purchased the full version and could not upgrade. I had the same EXACT experience that was originally posted.

I called MS thinking I should at least get some help that way. Believe it or not they don't support Voice Command on WM5 :evil: Does it say that it is NOT supported when you buy it? No. It says it's supported on WM 2003. I couldn't even get TS to tell me that if I hard reset it would work. All the guy would say is that "Voice Command is not supported on WM5".

It stood to reason that since the trial worked just fine that a hard reset would fix the issue. It did.

[Darius Wey]

I've had issues reinstalling and uninstalling applications as well. ActiveSync will prompt me to make a decision on whether I want to reinstall/upgrade the application. So, I click Yes, the new CAB gets pushed to the device, it attempts to install it - then boom - "Installation of Program XYZ was unsuccessful." :evil:

90% of the time, I'll have to soft-reset the device (even if said application's services aren't running in the background) before reinstalling/uninstalling. 9% of the time, it fails to work even after a soft-reset, so I have to disable any plug-ins and/or manually remove any program files first. 1% of the time, it actually works.

Windows Mobile 5.0 is great for a lot of things, but when it comes to reinstalling and uninstalling applications, it's a real PITA.

[Darius Wey]

I have the Think Outside Stowaway 4.3 bluetooth driver installed on my K-Jam and it will not come off! The uninstall always fails no matter what I try. 4.4 won't install over it either. For that matter, 4.3 won't install over itself. If fails every single time. So, I have a nice $99 keyboard that is useless to me until Think Outside either gives me the steps to manually remove it (all registry keys, DLL's, etc. that the driver uses) or I hard reset. :evil:

Ugh, I can imagine a driver being a lot harder to remove than a standard application.

I've experienced a few issues with stubborn applications which simply will not come off. Soft-reset? No good. Disable Today plug-in (if any)? Also, no good. At times, I've had to resort to the rather unorthodox method of uninstalling - that is, navigate to \Program Files and just nuke the application's folder. Yeah, registry keys aren't removed, but at least I'm able to perform the subsequent reinstallation of the newer version of the application, which overwrites the existing set of registry keys, anyway.

[Ed Hansberry]

At times, I've had to resort to the rather unorthodox method of uninstalling - that is, navigate to \Program Files and just nuke the application's folder. Yeah, registry keys aren't removed, but at least I'm able to perform the subsequent reinstallation of the newer version of the application, which overwrites the existing set of registry keys, anyway.
I am scared to do that with the BT keyboard drivers. Last thing I want is to whack or rename the files then have the device hang on the next soft reset because files can't be found/loaded.

[reedr]

There was a bug that has been fixed in the installer logic for Windows Mobile that I expect accounts for some of these problems. As part of the logic to scan and terminate any running instances of an application you are installing, we enumerate the running processes on the device when we see an EXE in the CAB. This is done through an API call to CreateToolhelp32Snapshot which, by default, can be a very memory intensive operation. Depending on the memory state of your device, this operation can fail and cause the install to fail without a real clear message as to why. Unfortunately, this can lead to a confusing end-user experience if you run into it. There are of course other application issues that can cause install problems, but this is one that is commonly characterized by a re-install failure or an install that fails and then succeeds right after a soft-reset.



The problem has been fixed is will be included most device upgrades in queue and also future releases on WM 5.0. If you find yourself running into install/re-install issues, the best thing to do it to soft-reset *prior* to the install operation to ensure you have optimal memory available to perform the operation. You are most likely to see failed installation on device under the following conditions:

* Installation of particularly large CABs
* Re-installation of an application that is already on the device
* Installation when there are a high number of processes currently running
* Devices that have a reduced addressable memory space


This problem is also discussed from our NETCF team here along with the approach they use to work around it: http://blogs.msdn.com/markprenticems/

Best Regards,

Reed Robison
Microsoft

[ctmagnus]

A bunch of technical goop

What I got from that is that this issue is a result of devices being shipped with insufficient ram. Is this really the case?

[daS]

Thank you Reed for that clear explanation!

Depending on the memory state of your device, this operation can fail and cause the install to fail without a real clear message as to why. Unfortunately, this can lead to a confusing end-user experience if you run into it. There are of course other application issues that can cause install problems, but this is one that is commonly characterized by a re-install failure or an install that fails and then succeeds right after a soft-reset.
So my empirical observation that this is an issue of available memory was accurate. That rarely happens. :wink:
This problem is also discussed from our NETCF team here along with the approach they use to work around it: http://blogs.msdn.com/markprenticems/
One issue not specifically addressed there is when you have large applications such as Voice Command (I know it's not officially supported for WM5.0, but it generally works) or Agenda Fusion loaded at in the StartUp folder. Most of these programs can be shut down after the soft-reset, but before doing the install/re-install. But others, such as Voice Command do not show up in the task list even though they take up considerable memory. So I remove the link from the StartUp folder before the reset and put it back after the install. It's a pain in the rear, but it seems to help when installing particularly large applications.

[QYV]

What I got from that is that this issue is a result of devices being shipped with insufficient ram. Is this really the case?

What I got was that there's a bug which is more likely to manifest itself in low RAM conditions. At least there's a workaround...

[that_kid]

I've run into the same problems as you Ed. With my 6700 and with my jasjar. Some programs will install fine and some won't install unless I copy the cab file to the device and install from there. The biggest problem comes in trying to remove programs. Many times i'll get an error msg stating tht the program wasn't uninstalled but do I want to remove the program from the uninstall list. Then I have to hunt that program down and forcibly remove it.

[reedr]

It’s not a RAM issue so much as an addressable memory issue. That’s a tough one to explain without getting very technical, but Doug Boling does a pretty good job here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dncenet/html/advmemmgmt.asp

You can have a ton of memory available on a device, but each process only gets access to a portion of a 32MB addressable area to load itself, its component dependencies, and make basic memory allocations. The actual space that is available to each process can vary slightly (more or less) from device to device depending on the OEM configuration. There is usually plenty of room for most processes to do what they need to do, but it’s still possible to exhaust this free space which can cause an app (or install) to fail. How can this happen? There are a number of variables that may or may not play into it.

Wceload is the primary process that handles the installation of your CAB. It examines the system when it sees you are installing an EXE to make sure that app is not already running. As part of this sequence, the API I referred too (CreateToolhelp32Snapshot) enumerates every running process and grabs a lot of information about each one—this is indeed expensive in terms of memory. The more processes you have running, the more memory it will use to collect this information. The size of your CAB or the type of operation (reinstall) also can impact how much memory is used in the wceload process space when you launch it. All of these things combined—OEM configuration, CAB size, type of operation, number of running process, etc—all play into the memory required to complete the install operation successfully. If all of these conditions ever push the memory demand above what is available in that limited addressable memory space, the failure can occur.

We changed the installer code to be more memory efficient and the fix was included in the code shared with device makers earlier this year. Devices and WM5 upgrades coming to market in the upcoming months will likely include the change. In the short term, a soft reset before install operations can help you avoid the problem if you run into it.

Best Regards,
Reed

[ronb]

I haven't had a problem with this (Dell X51V A01). Just to check again, I just did the latest PocketBible upgrade and it worked without a hitch.

[Janak Parekh]

Reed,

Thanks for the information. However, this fix still does not fix the upgrade experience on a WM5 device, correct? I would also consider that scenario "broken" as it stands.

--janak

[LarDude]

Reed,

Thanks for the information. However, this fix still does not fix the upgrade experience on a WM5 device, correct? I would also consider that scenario "broken" as it stands.

--janak

I dunno if I would agree that anything is actually "broken" here. Personally, I would view this whole issue as an attempt to bring the "full" expletive-laden Windows desktop experience to the mobile space. :wink: (You can even reuse the same swear words and curses).

[DaViD_BRaNDoN]

A bit off-topic but I once tried to rename a folder (same existing name but with different case) and end up the whole folder (including the sub-folders and files in it) got deleted for no reason.

For example:
- create a folder "Eat Me" and put some dummy files in it
- rename the folder to "EAT ME" (note the case)
- WM5 will complain some errors and asks if you wanna overwrite
- confirm the overwrite and voila, the folder (and the contents) is gone!

[Janak Parekh]

I dunno if I would agree that anything is actually "broken" here. Personally, I would view this whole issue as an attempt to bring the "full" expletive-laden Windows desktop experience to the mobile space. :wink: (You can even reuse the same swear words and curses).
No way. Every previous Pocket PC I had handled upgrades just fine -- the files would simply install on top. I used it to upgrade apps many, many times over. The notion of having to install via an initial uninstall, which often removes preferences, is broken compared to previous versions of Windows Mobile.

--janak

[tsaylor]

Ed, thanks very much for this thread! And Reed, thank you many times over for those informative details. Please keep us appraised of any more info on this topic.

The reason this is so close to my heart right now is that I am a Smartphone developer with a number of users who seem to experience the same types of problems (basically, seemingly random failures of the upgrade process). I've been going bonkers for weeks trying to find a common thread or something I'm doing wrong with my install/uninstall/setup.dll. Reed, do you know whether the bug you mentioned applies equally to the Smartphone platform?

This thread gives me a curious combination of relief and frustration. :?

But again, many thanks!

[k1darkknight]

I've replied to topics about WM5 before, glad to have waited on upgrading my Axim X50v. As I read more WM5 horror stories, I'm starting to think that WM5 is the mobile equivalent of Windows ME. If you'll remember, ME introduced some features that, while they were "a good idea at the time", just didn't deliver on the promises that were made before release, such as the rollback feature, among others (since I never had ME, myself, I don't remember what was introduced in it, and what wasn't put in until XP). At least some of those features were improved in XP, or better integrated into the whole. Going back further, I'd heard people refer to Windows 95 as the '3 year beta test' for 98. Hmmmm...with their track record so far, maybe I'll hold off for a year or two on Windows Vista, too... :devilboy:

[Janak Parekh]

I've replied to topics about WM5 before, glad to have waited on upgrading my Axim X50v. As I read more WM5 horror stories, I'm starting to think that WM5 is the mobile equivalent of Windows ME.
Oh, no way. 8O WM5 is actually pretty stable for most tasks, and I wouldn't switch back. That was seriously debatable for WinMe.

--janak

[JMac]

Aarrrgh!

Well, at least my Cingular 8125 is not a total loss. Here I was thinking that Cingular had really messed up the WM5 implementation, but it would appear otherwise.

Reed, what can be done, if anything, about apps that have already been successfully installed, but an upgrade failed and now cannot be removed? In a few cases I knew exactly what DLLs and registry changes are involved and so I deleted files and reversed everything else manually.

But for other apps I am less sure how to manually delete and reverse everything.

Is there any reasonable way - short of another hard reset?

(I have some devices that I wipe every two weeks due to beta testing; but this is the first time that my primary device was also my phone! And I've had to hard reset several times already in the four weeks I've owned it.)

BTW every Resco installation I tried has failed on this device. Emails to Resco went unanswered until the other day when Alenka responded to all in one fell swoop, and it wasn't pretty! Sounds extremely frustrated, as I imagine a lot of developers are after hearing questions from many users as to why their applications are failing upon upgrade/uninstall.

SPB Backup 1.1 fails to work on this device - silently terminates as a backup starts. They sent me a special build, 1.1.1, but when I tried to upgrade... Nope! v. 1.1 will not uninstall, but it's now off the "Remove Programs" list.

While I agree that this OS seems pretty stable, and the installation process seems greatly improved over WM2003SE, OEM's like Cingular are not likely to offer ROM upgrades very frequently - most of their users are "telephone users" as opposed to "PPC" users and aren't eager to attempt something like a ROM upgrade! (At least according to a Cingular Tech Manager I know.)

Is there any help for those of us who are ready for a fix? Patches, maybe?

Thanks!

[Inbox7]

I'm having the same problems everyone else is on my 6700. I'm using the latest ROM that was just released but still can't remove SPB Backup. Attempts to install a new version over the old results in the "Installation Failed." Even digging through the registry to delete values and several soft resets don't solve the problem.

I like WM5 but it still amazes me a company like Microsoft releases a product with obvious bugs. They spend months "testing" it but I use it for 15 minutes and can find them. I just don't get it.

[Inbox7]

The guys at SPB were great and responded to my email about uninstalling their program. Their advice worked:

If you experience difficulties while upgrading from 1.1 to 1.1.1 please try to disable Spb Backup Today plugin and remove all files in \Program Files\SpbBackup folder and these files as well.

Spb Backup.lnk in \windows\help
Spbbackup.htm in \windows
Spbbackuprunner.exe in \windows
Spbbackuptoday.dll in \windows

Then install the version 1.1.1 Please let us know if it helps.

My guess is other programs have additional files in Windows directory that don't get deleted. Next time you have trouble removing them, you may want to look there.

P.S. The SPB Backup 1.1.1. fixed the 'abrupt close' problem.

[JMac]

Same here.

SPB responded to my support request quickly and gave me instructions on how to remove all the files manually.

Excellent support response.

[Ed Hansberry]

I have given up on this working right. I don't understand why there is this need to remove the previous program, nor why there is a custom DLL put in \windows\appmanager\applicationname, nor why this wasn't caught in testing. Did no one that had access to the beta do something daring like... uninstall an application or try to upgrade???

I just run the uninstaller, let it fail, then manually delete or rename all .DLL and .EXE files that I can find related to the program, then run the upgrade file, then usually reconfigure all of my preferences. :evil: Absolutely ridiculious.

[JMac]

Ed,

I feel your pain.... believe me!

Sadly, though, I get the feeling that MS has never given Activesync nor Windows Mobile a very high priority in the whole scheme of their product lines. Just take a look at the MSDN forums. (Actually, I don't think they have ever given Outlook the time that it is due either).

Has anyone tried other applications that have uninstallers built in? Like SK-Tools? I don't know of Charley V. ever updated it for WM5, but it was his "polished" answer to Remover, for those who remember that.

I can't help but to think that one of our clever developers will come out with a third party solution to this serious error by Microsoft. (I have no illusion at all that Microsoft itself will even pursue a fix for this.)

A third party uninstall/upgrade solution would be a very nice little moneymaker, I would think.

Maybe we can get Jason to hold a contest for developers to develop the first good WM5 uninstall application!!

[S_K]

Ed,



Has anyone tried other applications that have uninstallers built in? Like SK-Tools? I don't know of Charley V. ever updated it for WM5, but it was his "polished" answer to Remover, for those who remember that.



SKTools have uninstall option for WM5. In SOME CASES this can help for uninstal "not right installed" programs. But for SOME CASES (if uninstall info very corrupted or missed) SKTools can only remove application from list. For WM5 all ("bad" and "good") program listed ,with special mark, in "Uninstall programs" option and "Bad/Old Uninstall Info" for WM5 is obsolete.

[lanwarrior]

Just to keep the topic alive, I am chirping in too: 99% of my uninstall or re-install attempt failed.

At the end, I have to remove the program manually using registry editor and Resco explorer.

Yes, we, the user, are the non-paying beta user for Windows CE.

[klanum]

Just bought a JasJar and having the same problems as Ed. I am manually removing them but does anybody know if something has been done yet to fix it?

BTW, Thanks for the topic as this was one of the few I've found googling for an answer!

[ctmagnus]

I have to do the same as the above poster. :(

I still haven't installed the new version of Spb Finance due to the hassles involved in upgrading.

However, I had no issues with upgrading FlexWallet. :confused totally:

[Darius Wey]

I still haven't installed the new version of Spb Finance due to the hassles involved in upgrading.

However, I had no issues with upgrading FlexWallet. :confused totally:

The general advice is to soft-reset before every upgrade. 99% of the time, it'll work. At least, use this option until Microsoft's patch is rolled out on to all devices.

[Ed Hansberry]

The general advice is to soft-reset before every upgrade. 99% of the time, it'll work.
more like 30% for me. :?

[JMac]

The general advice is to soft-reset before every upgrade. 99% of the time, it'll work.
more like 30% for me. :?
LOL!! Same here, Ed.

It may be related to how the developer configures the installer package, but I'm not certain.

Alex Kac of WebIS once mentioned that he had for the most part overcome the issue when one is upgrading to a newer build, and I have noticed that on the two occasions that I have had to upgrade Pocket Informant since getting my HTC Wizard, the installer uninstalled what it needed to of the existing build and installed the updates flawlessly.

Of course almost all other updates/upgrades are troublesome for me with this device.

[The PocketTV Team]

we also observed this problem, i.e. device sometimes not capable of un-installing an application, even though the application is *not* running.

a soft-reset resolved the problem.

that's definitely a WM5 bug. the problem is random and not related to a particular application or CAB file.

i looks like one of the file (or dll) used by the app is left opened, even though the app is not running. this prevents the file from being removed.

[JMac]

we also observed this problem, i.e. device not capable of un-installing an application, even though the application is *not* running.

a soft-reset resolved the problem.

that's definitely a WM5 bug.

i looks like one of the file (or dll) used by the app is left open, even though the app is not running. this prevents the file from being removed.
Actually, there a little more (or less!) to it.

Read this post (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=390114#390114) from earlier in this thread.

[The PocketTV Team]

Yes, i have read that, but in some of the cases where i have observed the problem, i know that the application being removed was not running, because i did exit it manually before the un-install.

So there may be more than one reason causing the problem.

In any case, MSFT is aware of it, so hopefully it will improve in future versions of Windows Mobile...

[ctmagnus]

The last few uninstalls/upgrades I've attempted, I've soft-reset directly before I ran the installer/uninstall. I still hit the same bug, even though I typically have just over 20MB free ram after a soft-reset. Maybe due to the fact that I use Resco Explorer as my file explorer vs the built-in one?