Axim Owners Want Answers & a Fix to Windows Mobile 5

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.petitiononline.com/Axim06/petition.html' target='_blank'>http://www.petitiononline.com/Axim06/petition.html</a><br /><br /></div><i>"We the owners of various Dell Axims (X50, X50v, X51, X51v) feel that the upgrade to WM5 is not well supported. We enjoy this product but we can no long sit by and let our words go unheard. We collectively agree that the update to Windows Mobile 5 is not properly working on our systems and we would like quick and detailed action in response to this problem. We are well aware that this is a problem on a multitude of handhelds because your company has even released a rollback program...."</i><br /><br />Some Dell Axim owners have put together an online petition to protest the state of affairs with the Axim and Windows Mobile 5. I can understand their frustration, though the calculating part of me wonders if a move like this will only cement Dell towards not releasing <i>any</i> future upgrades. And since users can always roll back to 2003 SE, I don't know if this petition will result in good things for the platform. What do you think?<br /><br />On a seperate note, I find it darkly ironic that on the petition Web site I saw a Google AdSense ad for Dell Axim Pocket PCs. :lol:

[victore]

I think it's important to let manufacturers know when we, their customers, are unsatisfied with their products. Sometimes the collected words of many speak louder than a single voice.

[Clinton Fitch]

I tend to agree that since Dell has offered a roll back to WM2003, they probably won't do much in the way of updates on the x50 series. The track record on the 51s though has proven they are offering ROM updates there.

It is a shame though - I wish they would address the 50s on just a few things.

On the other hand, I'm glad they offered the upgrade to WM5. It was the first WM5 device I had actually so it gave me a good taste of it - good and bad.

[Jacob]

It is important to let companies know of your displeasure, however I have one question.

Has any online petition every changed any position of a company? Just wondering.

[Duncan]

It is interesting to note that X51v owners seem to be having a much better time of things than X50v upgraders. One would have thought the hardware near identical - but perhaps that is not the case?

It will be equally interesting to see how iPAQ hx4700 users fare with the upgrade for that (and how well HP support it) - perhaps the longer run they've had will be for the good?

Will it turn out that FSC and Asus were sensible in not providing an upgrade - or is this just a Dell made mess?

[Down8]

Signed.

-bZj

[Vincent M Ferrari]

I don't get it. Didn't the X51v come with WM 5 from day one?

Not that it changes anything, and not that it actually works 100% (God, mine is probably the most frustrating handheld I've ever owned), but I don't get the "upgrade" thing.

Am I wrong?

[Patrick Y.]

I don't get it. Didn't the X51v come with WM 5 from day one?

Not that it changes anything, and not that it actually works 100% (God, mine is probably the most frustrating handheld I've ever owned), but I don't get the "upgrade" thing.

Am I wrong?

There is a HORRIBLE upgrade for x50v. However, this petition really includes x51v too, such as the terrible bluetooth.

The upgrade for x50v is just a total disaster. The sluggishness is just unbearable and some users, including me, are having memory problem that forces hard-reset occassionally. :evil: :evil:

[lapchinj]

I think it's important to let manufacturers know when we, their customers, are unsatisfied with their products. Sometimes the collected words of many speak louder than a single voice.
I couldn't agree with Victore more. Unfortunately large companies do not take note of problems from users and this is true with Dell also. I bought my x50v because I thought that everything that I read about it was just what I needed and wanted. Being that the x50v was able to be upgraded to WM5 made it a 'must have' and 'look no further' Pocket PC. I had it shipped overnight (if I remember correctly) and bought the upgrade as soon as it came out. Everyone was willing to bend over backwards to take my money and make the sale. I was happy also since everything went smooth and quick. When I had problems the phone calls became longer and longer and much more frequent because of people unwilling to put any effort into helping me after the sale. Not to mention that I was having a very hard time explaining what the problem was since I was unable to communicate what my problem was with the people on the other end of the phone (world :evil: ).

I was told that my issues were being addressed by the tech people at Dell but nothing was happening. Fixes should be comming out soon. But I have my xv50 now about a year and have I have rolled back OS as soon as the rollback was available. Even the rollback was hard to get. The x51v has been available for some time now so my x50v is now getting old and by the time something will be fixed we'll have the x61v :evil: .

It seems that the only way to talk to these companies is through the masses because every time I get on the phone with Dell I get people who don't understand my NY accent and I have to start from the very beginning explaining my tales of woe. Funny that nobody had any problems with my NY accent when I bought the thing. I'm just tired of all the cra_ and I think that these companies are counting on me just giving up. I've just plain given up any hope of ever getting any satisfactory solution to this OS issue (so I'll probably just live with 2003se). This petition seems to be my (and others) only hope of getting any resolution to our issues.

Besides, I paid for the damn upgrade so I think that I'm entitled to receive a working copy and not hours on the phone with people who really couldn't care less about helping me. All they're interested in is filling out their paperwork so they can get paid.

It's a shame that all this had to happen since I think that the x50v is really a nice piece but the deciding factor in buying it was the upgrade otherwise I could have gotten other PPC's that were also nice. Bottom line is that I will not buy another dell. PPC, desktop, server class machine or otherwise. There are a few nice PPC's I seen on the forum to choose from since I've deceided to buy another and give this one to my mother-in-law (she's wonderful when it comes to giving someone a hard time :devilboy: ). The desktops will be my own buildups and servers will stay HP or IBM, I will not try Dell again. :pukeface2:

End of subject, I have to get on with my life :deadhorse:.
Jeff- :soapbox:

[sickens]

I purchased my x50v before the whole windows mobile 5 upgrade possibilities existed, and i have been quite pleased with the device -- as have most users -- however, i became even *happier* when i found it would support mobile 5 and they would release an upgrade, needless to say, i jumped on the opportunity to get the upgrade and have been trying to work through the bugs - but it is to the point where it's completely unbareable.

I've been hoping that we all would hear something from Dell about a ROM upgrade for the x50's for a while now, and after reading more and more user comments and insights, i'm becoming increasingly doubtful that any further upgrades will come.

I think i'm going to revert to mobile 2003 by the end of the weekend, i've been hanging in too long - and it seems Dell's going to just leave us hanging.

[Darius Wey]

Has any online petition every changed any position of a company? Just wondering.

Well, we all remember the HP petitions when WM2003SE was first released? Let's hope Dell manages to break tradition.

[Typhoon]

I spent more than $300 in hopes to have a great working WM5 PDA, but now I am dissapointed. If they don't update WM5, I will reconsider buying Dell electronics. In fact, I am due to buy a new laptop soon. I "was" thinking about buying a Dell but there are a lot of cheap alternatives out there: Acer, Averatec, HP, you name it... I think a lot of people out there paid quite a bit for the WM5 update. Is it really that expensive for DELL to repair the WM5 OS?

[szamot]

I don't know what is worse here: the fact that Dell can't get the upgrade to work or the fact that they are so inept at fixing it that they have given up and are recalling it.

The problem with the NA society is the fact that no one is ever to be blamed for anything, no one is ever responsible for anything and no one ever says how thing are. People are so paranoid that everyone just pussy foots around every issue. Grow up! If someone screws up they should be pointed at and told to fix it. We used to call that fault, responsibility and accountability, now we call it an opportunity for improvement.

I think that the only thing that should and would motivate people to do anything right is plain and honest truth. If Dell screwed up they should be told so, not begged to perhaps consider getting it right again.

What is not good for the platform is dodgy work, what is good for the platform are users who are not willing to stand by as the mediocre product is being passed on as something it is not.

[doughboy]

I do not believe it is a bad idea to let Dell know what you want and expect it to fix the problems sometime in the future. I think the timing is in question considering the Rollback provided.

I may be in the minority but am at a loss why most people would want to upgrade to WM5. I realize Powerpoint Mobile and not losing your programs when the battery runs down are benefits but see the drawbacks outweighing them for many users
* longer access &amp; boot times due to programs stored in slower ROM memory
* lack of AS over WiFi
* loss of screen real estate to the soft buttons
* current programs are uncompatible with new OS and some programmers are charging for the upgrade
* plus all the initial problems with the new OS

I plan to hold onto my iPAQ 2210 for a while longer and am getting nervous I will be unable to find a Axim X50v in excellent condition when I am ready to purchase a different device. Until Microsoft "fixes" most of the problems listed above, I dread moving to a WM5 device. For now, I must envy those with WM2003SE devices -- namely my father and brother's Axim X50 Mids.

Best Wishes

[lapchinj]

Has any online petition every changed any position of a company? Just wondering.

Well, we all remember the HP petitions when WM2003SE was first released? Let's hope Dell manages to break tradition.
I'm sorry I don't remember those but I assume by the way you say it that it didn't accomplish very much. Even if a petition dosen't change a company's position it's not like it goes unnoticed. Up front they might pooh pooh the petition but anything that has a potential to affect sales does get noticed. Something must always be said. One doesn't have to rant and rave but something has to be said otherwise companies will think that everyone is happy since nobody is complaining. Forums like this give the community the ability to realize that it's not just me that has a particular problem with a product.

Companies cannot just change policies because some people have issues with its products but the WM5 issue with the x50v has been around for a while and it seems that Dell has bent over backwards not to correct the issues. They give the impression that they put more effort into avoiding the issue than trying to fix it. I don't know if ths petition will accomplish anything but it does make a statement to Dell saying that they blew it and customers are very upset and would like them to fix the problems that they paid so much money for the privilege of having.

I would also hope that Dell would break tradition since the x50v is nice but me, myself and I have given up since we spent too much time trying alone to get the WM5 issues resolved.

Jeff-

[lapchinj]

... If Dell screwed up they should be told so, not begged to perhaps consider getting it right again.

What is not good for the platform is dodgy work, what is good for the platform are users who are not willing to stand by as the mediocre product is being passed on as something it is not.

This should be any company's true 'bottom line' policy. Nicely said.

Jeff-

[Typhoon]

...I plan to hold onto my iPAQ 2210 for a while longer ...

That's a really good PDA. I was looking on eBay for one a few days ago, but I remembered that it doesn't have WM5. If it did, I would buy it. The biggest hilight of WM5 for me is not losing data when the battery dies. Plus I like the idea of installing cab files anywhere I want and using the ROM instead of the RAM for storage. I guess I like the idea that WM5 includes D3DM, but that hasn't brought much to the table. That's pretty much it.

[aquanaut]

reminds me of my falling out with Fujitsu-Siemens and the PocketLOOX 600. What a lesson that was. Broken promises. They succumbed to pressure to produce a WM2003 update that sucked. After 15-months of hell, I tossed it.

I love my h4150 -- 18-months and never once a hard reset.

The HTC Hermes looks like a nice upgrade.

Cheers

[Darius Wey]

longer access &amp; boot times due to programs stored in slower ROM memory

A drawback, yes. But considering the advantages that come with persistent storage, the increased general operation time might not be that much of a disadvantage. Furthermore, it's not a significant performance hit - at least, not in my experience. The X50v upgrade would differ otherwise, and I, like many other users, hope that it's patched ASAP.

current programs are uncompatible with new OS and some programmers are charging for the upgrade

Change is inevitable, and applications will eventually hit compatibility issues. When Vista is rolled out, I can imagine the same argument being said here. It's a fact of life with platform upgrades. I believe consumers simply have to bite it and move on.

I plan to hold onto my iPAQ 2210 for a while longer and am getting nervous I will be unable to find a Axim X50v in excellent condition when I am ready to purchase a different device. Until Microsoft "fixes" most of the problems listed above, I dread moving to a WM5 device. For now, I must envy those with WM2003SE devices -- namely my father and brother's Axim X50 Mids.

A lot of today's Windows Mobile 5.0 devices are actually quite stable. Most of the issues I've seen in the Windows Mobile 5.0 upgrade for the X50v I cannot reproduce on some other devices. My E-TEN M600, for example, is a very snappy device, and it does what I want it to do. That's not to say Windows Mobile 5.0 works in all areas. It's still in dire need of a patch job and I'm hoping the second revision of Windows Mobile 5.0 will bring that.

[Darius Wey]

I'm sorry I don't remember those but I assume by the way you say it that it didn't accomplish very much. Even if a petition dosen't change a company's position it's not like it goes unnoticed. Up front they might pooh pooh the petition but anything that has a potential to affect sales does get noticed. Something must always be said. One doesn't have to rant and rave but something has to be said otherwise companies will think that everyone is happy since nobody is complaining. Forums like this give the community the ability to realize that it's not just me that has a particular problem with a product.

Agreed. I'm a firm believer in making sure issues are made known, and hopefully, said issues are corrected. Forums are a great medium for that.

Back to the history of HP: a couple of years ago, there were a vast number of petitions floating around - primarily to push for the Windows Mobile 2003SE upgrade for the h1900, h2200, and h4100 series. Many people signed. Many people cried anger. Nothing happened. HP sent out a press release a couple months later with spotty details on why they chose not to release the upgrade, and that was it. Their reputation plummeted soon after. A sad affair, really. :(

I hope Dell will take users' concerns into consideration. Unless something is done about the current X50/X50v upgrade, the next time they announce that a model will be upgradeable to a new operating system, many people probably won't care much for it. At least, that's how I view this entire situation.

[pocketpcadmirer]

I love my h4150 -- 18-months and never once a hard reset.

Thats really phenomenal. I own a HTC magician and I do a hard reset every 3 months. I test a lot of apps and sometimes things really go wrong(and I'm a bit lazy to do a back-up everytime) :wink:

Sunny

[twpd]

There's a simple answer to all of this:

1. Don't be so eager to upgrade - all new os/s have problems that cannot be worked through in the desing/test phase.
2. Don't buy the rubbish - the problems are well-know (unless you are an early adopter).
3. Use a different pda - Windows Mobile has always been buggy, bloated and slow since the first incarnations and if you really look at it you will see that there's been hardly any inovation of progress in it. If people keep buying it then there's no incentive for either Microsoft or the hardware manufacturers to make it work properly.


As for those who say they went to WM5 for its ability to retain data in the event of a flat battery:

a. Buy a device with a backup battery
b. Back up more often.

If you data or apps stored on flash (persistent memory) then be prepared to accept slower write and read times. That's a limitation of the technology.

I remember my old Psion 5mx - it was faster, more responsive, more reliable and did more than my current X50v with far fewer hardware resources. Windows Mobile is rubbish.

[UnLoGiC]

The bluetooth stack in the Dell WM5 is so crappy that I'm forced to use IR for now, thats going backwards in the evolution damnit!

[MasterOfMoo]

My issue (and the majority of the rest) is, bare bones, I purchased a crap product (the upgrade, not the Axim x50v) and the vendor has made no progress/[visible] effort in fixing it.

[Typhoon]

My issue (and the majority of the rest) is, bare bones, I purchased a crap product (the upgrade, not the Axim x50v) and the vendor has made no progress/[visible] effort in fixing it.

Yea, that is the whole point. A valid excuse to petition. I agree.

[larrywms45]

I think it was Woody Hayes at Ohio State that was quoted as saying that when you throw the football, only three things can happen and two are bad.

In this case Dell has the option of doing nothing, offering an update fix for the 50 and 51 series or give me my $39 back for the upgrade for my X50 that doesn't work.

If they do nothing and or won't refund my money, that's two bad things. Do I think they really care? No but I can only hope.

I would have thought that Dell would have made a formal statement of intent by now; but, alas nothing.

[PetiteFlower]

Have you asked for your money back?

[Typhoon]

Have you asked for your money back?

That's a good question... Has anyone?

[Muntasser]

i rolled back, and I'm not looking back...

Dell can bang up WM5 all they want, but I'm not risking it all again like the first time. Its over...

This upgrade has wasted many hours of my valuable time and caused undue stress. The very least Dell can do is issue;

a) a formal apology and
b) a clear statement of whether a fix will/will not be created.

Is it really so hard?

[Typhoon]

Probably not...

[musicman5150]

"We the owners of various Dell Axims (X50, X50v, X51, X51v) feel that the upgrade to WM5 is not well supported. We enjoy this product but we can no long sit by and let our words go unheard. We collectively agree that the update to Windows Mobile 5 is not properly working on our systems and we would like quick and detailed action in response to this problem. We are well aware that this is a problem on a multitude of handhelds because your company has even released a rollback program...."

Some Dell Axim owners have put together an online petition to protest the state of affairs with the Axim and Windows Mobile 5. I can understand their frustration, though the calculating part of me wonders if a move like this will only cement Dell towards not releasing any future upgrades. And since users can always roll back to 2003 SE, I don't know if this petition will result in good things for the platform. What do you think?

On a seperate note, I find it darkly ironic that on the petition Web site I saw a Google AdSense ad for Dell Axim Pocket PCs. :lol:


I purchased an Axim X51v that come preloaded with Windows mobile 2005 and figured it would be so easy to transfer over all my contacts and tasks, etc from my Axim X5 that I've used without problem ever since the day they were first released on the public. It's been 3 weeks now and I still can't get the thing to sync. I've checked about 10 different forums including the Aximsite forum and they all say that the problem is with WM2005. I've tried every workaround but sadly non of them are foolproof so none of them have worked. I finally contacted Dell support directly and they gave me a link from Microsoft and said this would solve the problems. I thought to myself "great! good ol' Dell to the rescue", do you know what their workaround is? To rollback my Outlook from outlook 2003 to the lower version that has much less functionality. This in turn lost all my contacts, all my tasks, all my letters and screwed up my mail accounts completely. Thank heavens for the ability to restore through windows xp. This is a rediculous thing to have to deal with. I want to be able to use my new axim but I've had to put it on moth balls and brought back my old X5 using windows mobile 2003. Good thing I hadn't sold it on Ebay yet. I hate to have to rollback on my X51v but I guess I may have to.

[k1darkknight]

Someone at Dell NEEDS to read this:

I bought my Axim X50v, oh...about 1 1/2 yrs ago, I think? ...and overall, I've been very satisfied with it. I made a point of buying the 3yr extended warranty, plus accidental damage protection (which I have already used once, and need to see if it covers the power adapter/connector piece), figuring I'd probably end up dropping the thing at least once.
I was excited to hear that they were going to release an upgrade to WM5, and looked forward to it, anxiously. However, I did NOT intend to purchase the upgrade right away, opting to let others (i.e. posters on this and other forums) do the post-release beta testing for me. Having read about the results of that 'beta testing,' I'm glad I waited.

As of this post, I have NOT YET SPENT A PENNY on this WM5 upgrade, and I DON'T PLAN TO, until the most serious issues people have had are resolved. I imagine I'm not the only one who feels this way, so Dell stands to lose possibly thousands of dollars on non-upgraders, JUST in the short-term. However...If they don't fix the problems, not only will I not buy the upgrade, but I will AVOID buying ANYTHING from Dell EVER again.
If they DO fix the problems, having enjoyed my X50v thus far, I WOULD consider purchasing a new model from them, at some point in the future. Most likely it wouldn't be from their next line, but from the one after that, say...4-6 years out. Depending on how much THAT unit would do, I might even purchase another one, another 4-6 years after that.

(this is the part Dell needs to pay attention to)

Considering all that, I would possibly purchase another 2 units from them in the next 10 years or so. Keeping in mind that I'd purchase the extended warranties with each (even if I'd wait for a sale, coupon, or some other deal), my total purchase would conservatively be $500 for each unit. If there are even 1,000 other people ANYWHERE in the countries Dell services, who would have similar purchasing intentions, at $1,000 per customer over 10 years, that would be a cool $1 million dollars in sales, that Dell could stand to lose. Granted, for a company as big as dell, that's not an earth-shattering amount, but it IS enough to make a small difference, in at least ONE product line.

But even THAT is only if each of the hypothetical 1,000 customers would have ONLY purchased Pocket PCs from Dell. If anyone from Dell is reading this, think about those numbers. I've already dropped HP from consideration for future purchases (of anything but printers). Please don't make Dell the next addition to my 'blacklist'.


Chris, aka k1darkknight

[W.I.P.]

Hey DELL... we're still waiting... and I'm starting to look to other sources for my tech needs.... convince me that my first instinct was right to go with DELL...

[tiggerr129]

I can't address the whole WM 5 vs 2003 issue since my first ppc, an axim x51 came with WM 5. I had previously been a Palm Tungsten owner. Don't get me started about Palm Support.
However, I do own several Dell PCs and I have found an acceptable way around the support issue. Instead of talkung to a CSR who reads from a cue card or a book that says "if customer uses this word read # 7. I take my problem to the on line chat support. (Hard if you are having PC problems and only one PC, I admit, but if possible it is much better).

Your problem is read and assigned to an actual Tech person not an untrained CSR. (no offence to CSRs out there.) Dialects aren't a problem, and any time on "hold" can be spent doing something else. Plus they send you an email of the transcript, or you can save the text yourselk. Those folks are pretty good.

Hope that works