Verizon Wireless - We Never Stop Working For Us?

[Jon Westfall]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://us.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/verizon-slapped-for-crippling-bluetooth-150376.php' target='_blank'>http://us.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellp...ooth-150376.php</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Verizon has been getting weasely with some of its customers in California who bought its Motorola v710 Bluetooth-“capable” phone on or before January 31, 2005. Preliminary approval of the settlement was granted in a California court for a class-action suit against the company because it didn't accurately tell prospective customers that its Bluetooth features weren't what they appeared to be. Verizon said the phone “works with a PC” but left out that part about how you can’t wirelessly sync photos or contacts or any other files using Bluetooth. Small detail, Verizon... Sounds like a slap on the wrist to the telecom giant. Perhaps the company should be required to state “We Cripple Bluetooth” on all its advertisements. When, oh when will this greedy, clueless company stop crippling Bluetooth?"</i><br /><br />We've known of Verizon's little tactic of crippling Bluetooth for quite some time now, and many of us have even joked about it (I forget where exactly but I do remember a humorous remark that Verizon would charge $0.02 per keypress if they could). Seriously though, how much has Verizon's practices in this area stopped you from buying a Verizon-branded device? Personally I find it annoying but can't say it's my only reason for not switching to Verizon - is it yours?

[DaleReeck]

In my area, VZW and Sprint are the best in coverage, building penetration and high speed network though Sprint actually beat VZW to the punch with EVDO. But VZW has better "boonie" coverage. The CDMA carriers work better than the GSM ones in my region, though GSM phones continue to be the best, have the largest variety and are the most flexible.

[Rod3]

Verizon's the only one that has good enough coverage that I can use my phone at home. I hate the bluetooth thing, but I need the coverage.

[Phillip Dyson]

I've always been pretty envious of Verizon's coverage, especially in the DC Metro system. But no enough to give up the freedom of choice as it pertains to what phones I can use and what features I have access to.

[txcas]

Well, this practice stopped me from buying from them yesterday. I was buying a Treo 700w or a VX-6700 from Verizon, but found that they crippled Bluetooth and could not use the phones as modems. I went with Sprint and got the PPC-6700.

[emuelle1]

I have Cingular, and I'm not aware of them crippling Bluetooth. We were on an AT&amp;T Contract (we left Cingular only to get bought back in 3 months later) and figured we'd just go back to Cingular when our AT&amp;T Wireless contract was up. I wanted to buy the Motorola v551 at the time, and while I was in the store I took a picture, fired up BT, whipped out my Dell Axim x30, fired up it's BT, discovered the phone, browsed it, and downloaded the picture to my Pocket PC. My wife didn't like me spending all that money on the Motorola phone, so I had to take it back and exchange it for a matching Sony Ericson z500a, which were buy one, get one free at the time. Supposedly it was on the condition that I could get a better phone down the road, but she seems to have forgotten that part...

While deciding what contract and phones I wanted, I did a ton of research. I had decided at the time that I wanted the Nokia 6620. My wife of course didn't want me to spend that much on a phone, but my research benefitted my friend who switched to Cingular and bought that phone with a data plan. He is able to use it as a BT modem for his Pocket PC so he can download email.

So in my experience, Cingular doesn't mess with the capabilities of its phones, and from the research I did last year, they do have better phones and better plans than Verizon, at least for my needs. The coverage in my area isn't bad.

[mpaque]

I was a long time GSM user on both T-Mobile and Cingular. I always bought unlocked, unbranded phones. The problem is that I grew tired of the spotty coverage on T-Mobile and the constant dropped calls, lousy call quality and mysterious voice mails that showed up 2 days after a call on Cingular. Anyway, I just switched to the dark side (Verizon) and although their practice of castrating Bluetooth bothers me, their coverage and quality beats the GSM carriers hands down, at least in the areas I frequent. Bottom line, I don't like the company or their practices, but the quality of their service is top notch.

Come on Cingular, get the networks integrated and fix your quality problems so I can come home to GSM when my contract is up in January 07!!

[mhynek]

I live in Central Illinois and use Verizon because of their coverage. I work in the medical field and, coincidentaly, recently polled a number of folks throughout the hospital on what service provider they used. Oddly enough, everyone that used Verizon had no problems with coverage. Sprint, Cingular, and USCellular users all experienced numerous dead "spots" and poor reception within buildings, even worse, some had no signal in their homes. No one I spoke to used T-mobile even though they are now in our area. Personally, I use a Motorola V710 with my Ipaq 3970 "Bluetooth tethered" to browse and email using 1x wirelessly. No complaints. Yes they seem to charge me every time I sneeze, but most importantly I can make and receive phone calls whenever and wherever I want. To me, that is more important than convergence, size, or cool factor. That's the only reason I'm with them. Had I not been able to get my hands on a V710 and had there not been a class action lawsuit allowing me to use Bluetooth DUN, I would probably be much more disgruntled. As it stands, I consider myself lucky to have my cake and eat it too.

[warptime]

I live in southwest Idaho and we not only have cell phones in our area, but we also have EVDO! (a little back country humor there...) I recently purchased the PPC6700 through Sprint. I checked the Verizon offerings and decided on Sprint because of the Verizon Bluetooth issue. One Verizon 'sales' rep touted the profitability of the company as a major benefit during his pitch. When he indicated I would be unable to tether or do the other things I was asking about, I made the comment that evidently the company profit margin was more important than providing the features and services customers want. Next day I signed up with Sprint.

ATT reception was terrible on my SMT5600. I was able to get out of my contract with them because of the reception. That was after a one-year decade with T-Mobile, whose reception was even worse. Prior to that I had an old CDMA phone for 6-8 years (yes, the same dull phone!). My wife stayed with ATT and was assimilated into Cingular and has done fine. They gave me the option of assimilation when I was complaining about the 5600, but I did not want to extend my captivity another 2 years, so I bailed. Have been happy with Sprint since.

-----------------------------
Warptime

PPC-6700

[tadams]

Strictly a coverage issue for me, Verizon is better then other carriers (where I live - Westchester County, NY). The crippled Bluetooth is definitely irritating, but if I can't get a signal, it doesn't matter if I can use the PDA phone as a modem.

[whydidnt]

I swore for a long time that I wouldn't use Verizon because of their ridiculous bluetooth policies. However, when the i730 was released and I found out there were ways to circumvent their locks I dove in. I haven't noticed any better coverage than Cingular where I use the device however, and acutally had to use my 2125 for data access this weekend in Northern MN, since Verizon did not provide data there on their "extended" network. :?

If I could find a decent usuable EVDO modem for my OQO (has to be USB) I would probably ditch the i730 and stick with Cingular simply for the flexibility offered by the GSM network and their phones. However, I find I am extremely addicted to fast mobile internet access and I will tend to go with whatever network offers me the best options for that access. Maybe when Cingluar finishes rolling out their 3G network and releases some decent phones to go with it I'll jump back to using them as my primary provider.

[ntractv]

It's irritating, but, I live with it for the coverage area. Especially in the DC metro stations underground.

[KTamas]

The problem is that Verizon can do this; they know they won't lose that much customers with crippling bluetooth -- because people will buy verizon cause of their coverage. I had a chance to see a V710 when I was in the USA, and the owner asked me why can't he download the pictures from it, not even with data cable... and i was shocked that it is actually not possible indeed. On the other hand, the coverage of verizon is really good indeed. So the customer can either choose the coverage and the crippled bluetooth, or go with Cingular and get one of those cool GSM devices. (Or, even worse, T-mobile; man, they have a horrible coverage. I was on roaming, and even though my provider is T-mobile Hungary, i always got Cingular signal...which is, of course twice as expensive to use for calls and SMS)

[echernosky]

The only reason I use Verizon is for their great coverage (put me down for #3 for the DC Metro system).

I really hate their "charge for everything" and "crippling" policies and would jump ship right away if another provider had the same coverage.

I also hate how they only carry PPC's with th(d)umboards.

[jlc, just jlc]

For me it's coverage first - I travel and use my phone a lot. I left ATT a few years back becaise of pooe reception and coverage and VZW has been great in that espect. Given the availablity of pdaNet DUN is not an issue for me; I'll get VZW tether plan once it is rolled out.

[lapchinj]

The reasons I use Verizon is because of the coverage and a bunch of my freind and family have their service so we talk for free. But coverage is so good that I can even get calls in steel buildings where even nextel and sprint have coverage - now that's good service 8) . But I do like the offerings of other companies better.

This bluetooth thing has caught me by supprise though 8O . Just goes to show you how much I use bluetooth and I own the 710 for 1-1/2 years now. One day not too long ago I had a few extra minutes and tried connecting the thing to my laptop. I was sort of able to pair the things but that's as far as I got. I figured I would try again when I had more time to kill so I just packed up and went back to work. I guess this thread explains clearly enough that it would never happen. I feel like I've been on Mars for the longest time because this is the first I heard of it :oops: .

I was really tempted to consider buying the Treo 700w but this bluetooth scam has really poured cold water on that idea (to say it nicely). Well my plan is up in 6 months and if it wasn't for friends, family and coverage I would just go somewhere else. I bought the phone with this type of connectivity in mind I just never really needed it but it should have been mentioned that it cannot be done. I really shouldn't do business with someone I can't trust.

Jeff-

[fresh-popcorn]

Strictly a coverage issue for me, Verizon is better then other carriers (where I live - Westchester County, NY). The crippled Bluetooth is definitely irritating, but if I can't get a signal, it doesn't matter if I can use the PDA phone as a modem.

With that logic using Verizon you still wouldnt be able to connect your PDA/Laptop with your phone as a modem even if you were standing under a Verizone Cell Tower.

I agree though that having great coverage is probably #1 on my list as well, I am with Cingular and have not had any issues with coverage and signal where I live/work/travel so I will continue to stay with them and avoid the evil V.
Even though where I work I'm in a really old building with tin ceilings and the only carrier that works consistantly is Cingular. Customers with Verizon have trouble so they walk to the front door to use their phone.
Same as Nextel, T-Mobile (No signal unless outside), and Sprint.

[whydidnt]

I bought the phone with this type of connectivity in mind I just never really needed it but it should have been mentioned that it cannot be done. I really shouldn't do business with someone I can't trust.

Jeff-

I agree regarding Verizon's practices, but the good news is there is an easy work around to use the V710 as a bluetooth modem. Jump over to www.howardforums.com and look over their Verizon phones forum. I believe it's as easy as keying a few digits into the phone to enable it's bluetooth use, and by most accounts it provides the BEST bluetooth modem throughput of any phone out there. :D

Speaking of Verizon bashing - the CEO of their parent company has been very vocal about wanting to charge Google, MSN, Yahoo etc. "access" fees to deliver those services to Verizon's DSL customers. Seems customers paying for unlimited internet access there aren't really supposed to get unlimited access either. :roll: Of course Google and the like have told them to go pound dirt, but can you imagine if they actually decided to block access to Google, like some ISP's have done to VOIP companies, because Google won't pay their toll?

I'm a Libertarian at heart, but sooner or later the Govt. is going to have to step in and treat these communications companies like the monopoly that they act like. Do you think Verizon would even suggest this sort of behavior if they had real competition and knew that if they blocked access to Google they would lose a signficant share of their customers? The same can be said in the cellular market, if Verizon didn't have their obvious coverage monopoly/advantage, consumers wouldn't put up with their other shenanigans.

[nategesner]

I'm also disappointed in how VZW cripples their phones. However, as has already been stated, coverage is more important to me than the fancy features. I travel a lot and want to be able to reach my family. If I can download e-mail, that's great. If not, at least I can talk to my wife or be reached in an emergency. While almost every carrier has better phones/capabilities than VZW, none has been able to beat their service. I'm constantly talking on the phone while co-workers are searching for a signal with their Sprint/Cingular/whatever phone with all the bells and whistles.

On the note of "monopoly" phone companies, I'm really ticked with the way they sell phones. Sure, it sounds great to get a free phone or a hugely discounted phone when you sign up for a plan. But what happens when your phone breaks? You pay full price to purchase a replacement. That phone they gave you for free is suddenly priced at $149. I want to know why the government doesn't impose some form of standardization so that anybody can manufacture/sell a phone for any carrier. After all, I can buy hundreds of different land-line phones, all from different manufacturers, and talk on any phone line in the country regardless of what phone company owns the wires going to my house. Why not with cell phones? That is a scam above all scams.

[psychohamster]

I've read this site for ages, but until now have never felt compelled to post. Being a v710 owner myself I thought I would throw in my 2 cents.

My first concern comes from the posters in this forum who say that VZW has crippled the bluetooth modem functionality. I am confused, as I have owned two v710 phones, one with the inital, non-vzw approved firmware (acquired from Radio Shack the day of release, weeks before vzw stores stocked them) and another one with the current (official) firmware release. On neither of these devices have I ever had to do anything special to use it as a bluetooth modem. In fact, the only two bluetooth profiles available on both versions were Headset and DUN. I cracked the phone out of the box, immediately paired it with my ipaq 3955 (w/ bluetooth sleeve) and ipaq hx4705 and had no problems. With the latest firmware release, they enable bluetooth contact syncing (thanks to the above mentioned lawsuit); however, they do disable the ability to move any kind of media file from the memory card to the phone (goodbye free mp3 ringtones) - but hey, let's face it, that isn't what makes the phone a productive tool. If that is important to you, as a previous poster mentioned, the good people on HoFo have come up with a way around all the setbacks.

Secondly, I am somewhat curious as to what people think they are being nickle-and-dimed with. I use my phone as a modem (usually several times a day) and have it come off my minutes - I don't pay per KB like my friends with GSM providers. My phone bill is entirely predictable and the same amount every month. I get my email, make plenty of calls, get/send hundreds of text messages and never pay any extra. If you are having these kinds of problems, I suggest you call and negotiate yourself a different plan. They're able to set you up with almost anything that isn't a blatant rip-off. Then again, I've been a wireless customer for almost 9 years (they acquired my tiny local provider back in 99, but retained all my previous customer history) so perhaps that helps when I call and ask for a new deal.

I guess the reason I stick with them, like most other people, is the coverage quality in my area. That, and my city is the primary test market for new technology, thanks mostly to Qualcomm being based here. (I was beta testing a 1xEV-DO modem for them back in 2001).

That being said, I do seem to hear all kinds of horror stories from former Verizon customers, and they seem to centralize on the east coast. Are they just that much more cruel out there? I don't think I've talked to a fellow from my area who has left verizon once having them.

I'd also like to voice my agreement with whydidn't, who stated "I'm a Libertarian at heart, but sooner or later the Govt. is going to have to step in and treat these communications companies like the monopoly that they act like. Do you think Verizon would even suggest this sort of behavior if they had real competition and knew that if they blocked access to Google they would lose a signficant share of their customers?"

They sure as heck wouldn't. But then again, the other thing protecting them (apart from monopoly) is the binding contracts. Because their operating costs are so high, people are so fickle, and number portability, they need the long-term contracts now more than ever to present stable earnings estimates to their investors. Of course, we as consumers shouldn't ever feel comfortable signing one unless we're darn sure of what we're getting into. We've convinced ourselves we need mobile phone service, so we're willing to shell out our cash even if we don't like the terms. (Anyone remember when we just carried pagers and a few quarters for the pay phone?)

Okay, sorry for the long post, I'm done :)

[psychohamster]

My apologies for the first section previous post - I see now that people were talking about the crippled bluetooth dun on the 700w, not the v710.

That's what I get for trying to read forums at 1 in the morning :P

[lapchinj]

I agree regarding Verizon's practices, but the good news is there is an easy work around to use the V710 as a bluetooth modem. Jump over to www.howardforums.com and look over their Verizon phones forum. I believe it's as easy as keying a few digits into the phone to enable it's bluetooth use, and by most accounts it provides the BEST bluetooth modem throughput of any phone out there. :D ...[/quote]

Thanks - I havn't found it yet but there is a ton of eye opening reading over there. I guess I just got caught up on reading the Verizon forums. Seems to be a lot of unhappy customers but they have the best service coverage (at least in my area) so even though I don't like doing business with sneeks I guess I have no choice. But I would have no problem signing any petition that would make them more responsible to their actions. Some of the stuff I'm reading is really outrageous and just goes to show you how large companies act and take advantage of the people who are their bread and butter. Anyway, at the rate I'm reading I should be able to find the answer I'm looking for sometime after 3am 8O

Jeff-

[bbarker]

I switched from Verizon to T-Mobile 2 or 3 years ago and I haven't once regretted it. My coverage is comparable, the price is lower, I have an inexpensive unlimited data plan, and I can use my Bluetooth phone as a modem. T-Mobile requires only a 1-year contract, not 2 years. And I find T-Mobile's support better and friendlier than Verizon's.

[lapchinj]

I switched from Verizon to T-Mobile 2 or 3 years ago and I haven't once regretted it...

I gotta look into T-Mobile and see how good they are in my neck of the woods. Almost all companies let their own brand an unlimited amount of talk time for mobil to mobil. I'm fit into that slot since a whole mess of my friends and almost all my family and relitives have Verizon. And we all came to Verizon mainly because of coverage (very hard to find a dead spot). The other big phone network here is Nextel and that's because of the 2-way feature which is great for people in the trades. The people I know that have Nextel also have Verizon again because of coverage.

Jeff-

[whydidnt]

Lapchinj - it appears I sent you on a bit of a wild goose chase. :oops:

I mixed the V710 and e815 in my mind. On the E815 a ##DIALUP on the keypad enables it. It sounds like DUN was automatically enabled on the V710, but killed by their latest firmware flash. However, some users have found a PPC side hack with the MS Bluetooth stack on their WM5 PPC's (Axim X51 specfically)

Sorry to waste your time like that. :oops:

[lapchinj]

Lapchinj - it appears I sent you on a bit of a wild goose chase. :oops:
:mecry: I was hoping for some light at the end of the tunnel but I guess it still belongs to that train called Verizon.

...Sorry to waste your time like that. :oops:
It was not a waste of time by no means. I'm still reading the forums over at HowardForums. I thought I would be finished reading all those posts pretty late but I had a hard time this morning when I found myself still reading when my alarm went off at 5am. All I can say is that it's been a very long day :morning:

I think the world can wait for me to come back tomorrow I going to :sleeping:.

Jeff-

[tadams]

Strictly a coverage issue for me, Verizon is better then other carriers (where I live - Westchester County, NY). The crippled Bluetooth is definitely irritating, but if I can't get a signal, it doesn't matter if I can use the PDA phone as a modem.

With that logic using Verizon you still wouldnt be able to connect your PDA/Laptop with your phone as a modem even if you were standing under a Verizone Cell Tower.

Sorry, is that because you can't use a Treo 700w or a v710 that way?

[l_emmerdeur]

I switched from T-Mobile to VZW about 2 months ago, and I absolutely HATE it.

I switched to take advantage of their Broadband data service, but mostly because the people I and my girlfriend talk to the most are VZW customers.

First, in NYC, I have yet to see a difference in network quality. VZW drops calls just as often as T-Mobile did. I sit firmly in the camp that, for places like NYC, their "superior" network is a bunch of baloney.

Second, I got the RAZR V3C, and the VZW UI is a POS. Also, even though I am willing to pay to tether my hx4700 via BT, they don't allow you to do that at any price. Only the latest Blackberry allows tethering - but why would I want to tether a PDA to a PDA phone? The whole point is to have a tiny phone (like the RAZR) and use it as a modem for the PDA. Looks like they will only offer EV-DO tethering on PDA phones in the future (Treo 700w and xv6700, I heard) which is just plain retarded.

Of course, if I decide to switch to another carrier, I will definitely not go back to T-Mobile. Although I had one account, they charged me 2 fees to cancel my service, because I had 2 phones on the account. Sure, it's in the user agreement, but that doesn't make it any less sleazy.

Next time, our friends can switch to OUR service, or better yet, we'll just get better friends.