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View Full Version : HTC Prophet Preview at the::unwired


Darius Wey
12-22-2005, 01:00 AM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=2806' target='_blank'>http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=2806</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Last week, Dopod officially released the Dopod 818 Pro which is based on the brand new HTC Prophet (manufactured by Taiwanese HTC) and during last weeks Möbius conference in Seattle, I had my first contact with the Prophet. The HTC Prophet is the true follower of the HTC Magician (better known as T-Mobile MDA compact, O2 Xda mini, i-mate Jam) and unlike the HTC Charmer (which is on sale exclusively by T-Mobile as MDA compact II) the Prophet not got Windows Mobile 5.0 only but also a new case, a new camera, built-in W-LAN and more. Based on Microsoft's Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU 2 the Prophet comes in a sleek metallic finish and supports quad-band GSM, GPRS and EDGE. In addition it supports Bluetooth 2.0 and since it will be released with Windows Mobile AKU 2, it will also supports the Bluetooth Stereo Headset Profile (A2DP). Unlike the forerunners Magician and Charmer, the Prophet has built-in WiFi capabilities with dual support of 802.11b and 802.11g aka WiFi b and WiFi g. Last but not least it still has an infrared-support."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20051222-HTCProphet.jpg" /><br /><br />Arne Hess over at the::unwired has a neat preview of the HTC Prophet (already released as the Dopod 818 Pro in parts of South-East Asia). Lots of commentary and side-by-side comparisons with the HTC Magician and E-TEN M600. Check it out!

Johnny Bravo RJ
12-22-2005, 02:32 AM
In order to be the perfect device for me, I would like to know if it runs Skype over wifi connection, despite the 200MHz only processor speed...
If someone can test it, that would be great.

ricksfiona
12-22-2005, 03:12 AM
I thought there would be no immediate to my champion, the E-TEN M600. But this is one very interesting device. Advantages: EDGE and possibly better Windows Mobile 5 implementation.

The M600 has better stialing and could possibly pass more easily as a phone, which is nice and the overall styling is more sleek.

I agree, I wonder how Skype would work on such a low MHz device. Video is also important, so I'm wondering how good converted DVDs would perform. This is not a gee-whiz feature for me either, so it's important. Anyone who can fill me in would rock!

Johnny Bravo RJ
12-22-2005, 03:21 AM
where can i get the ETEN M600 in the US? Is it already available?

Darius Wey
12-22-2005, 04:52 AM
where can i get the ETEN M600 in the US? Is it already available?

It's badged in the US under the name, TORQ P100w. Expected release date is early January, but some resellers are already taking pre-orders.

Mad Monkey Boys Gadgets (http://www.dweiniger.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=109) tends to be pretty reliable.

ctmagnus
12-22-2005, 05:45 AM
No mention of a cradle. :(

I have no issues with syncing via Bluetooth, but I greatly prefer being able to charge my iPaq by dropping it into the cradle versus having to plug a cable into my SMT5600.

Arne Hess
12-22-2005, 08:49 AM
Before I sent the device back, I had the chance to test the new low CPU Beta of Skype:

UPDATE: Ok, I've just tried the "low-CPU" version on an HTC Prophet (which has a 200 MHz powered TI 850 OMAP CPU only) and while the other heard me fine, I haven't heard the other that good at all! Doesn't matter which settings I used (w/ or w/o echo canceller) it didn't worked that good at all. So I still have the fear, that the new TI processor isn't (good) enough for Skype.

http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=2809

pocketpcadmirer
12-22-2005, 12:15 PM
I want silver !!

Though good set of features,but, looks like its avaliable only in black. I want the 'falshy' silver.

Sunny 8)

Darius Wey
12-22-2005, 01:40 PM
I want silver !!

Though good set of features,but, looks like its avaliable only in black. I want the 'falshy' silver.

It's available in silver. ;)

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=44831

pocketpcadmirer
12-22-2005, 03:20 PM
Thanks for the link uncle darius !! Great news for me !!

Sunny :)

Paragon
12-22-2005, 06:01 PM
Before I sent the device back, I had the chance to test the new low CPU Beta of Skype:

UPDATE: Ok, I've just tried the "low-CPU" version on an HTC Prophet (which has a 200 MHz powered TI 850 OMAP CPU only) and while the other heard me fine, I haven't heard the other that good at all! Doesn't matter which settings I used (w/ or w/o echo canceller) it didn't worked that good at all. So I still have the fear, that the new TI processor isn't (good) enough for Skype.

http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=2809

Hmmm...Arne, to date of all the PPCs I have owned, which includes devices like the Axim x50v and the Universal along with many others, I have gotten Skype to work on ONE...that's right ONE. The M500 eten. I think the fact that Skype doesn't work for you on the Wizard is more a reflection of Skype than it it the processor.....btw, check out Howard forums, you'll see that there are others who have it working....it's a flaky app.

Dave

Arne Hess
12-22-2005, 06:45 PM
Hmmm...Arne, to date of all the PPCs I have owned, which includes devices like the Axim x50v and the Universal along with many others, I have gotten Skype to work on ONE...that's right ONE. The M500 eten. I think the fact that Skype doesn't work for you on the Wizard is more a reflection of Skype than it it the processor.....btw, check out Howard forums, you'll see that there are others who have it working....it's a flaky app.
Weird... For me it's working fine on the HTC Alpine (Xda IIi), HTC Magician (Xda mini with external W-LAN card) *and* HTC Universal (Xda Exec) as well as on the Eten M600 but never got it working on the Wizard nor on the Prophet and believe me, I'm an old-time Skype user as well since the first Beta.
Sure, Skype is still not perfect but the TI OMAP 850 design has serious limits in terms of thread handling!

Paragon
12-22-2005, 06:48 PM
but the TI OMAP 850 design has serious limits in terms of thread handling!

Can you elaborate on that Arne?

Arne Hess
12-22-2005, 07:06 PM
Can you elaborate on that Arne?
It's a single CPU architecture which means it's handling the OS, GSM, GPRS, Bluetooth and W-LAN if part of the device.
A traditional device has 2 CPUs, one for the OS and one for the radio. That's why Skype works best on non-TI devices but Intel/Samsung based devices which aren't offering integrated chip-sets yet.

Paragon
12-22-2005, 07:13 PM
[quote=Arne Hess]Can you elaborate on that Arne?
It's a single CPU architecture which means it's handling the OS, GSM, GPRS, Bluetooth and W-LAN if part of the device.
A traditional device has 2 CPUs, one for the OS and one for the radio. That's why Skype works best on non-TI devices but Intel/Samsung based devices which aren't offering integrated chip-sets yet.

I'm confused. The OMAP is a multi core processor. This has been touted as a large benefit, since it splits operations. Thus allowing functions such as OS, and GSM to be handled seperately. Are you saying that it is because of this that Skype doesn't work that well?

Arne Hess
12-22-2005, 07:48 PM
I'm confused. The OMAP is a multi core processor. This has been touted as a large benefit, since it splits operations. Thus allowing functions such as OS, and GSM to be handled seperately. Are you saying that it is because of this that Skype doesn't work that well?
Quote from TI (http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&amp;navigationId=12000&amp;path=templatedata/cm/product/data/omap_850):

The OMAP850 is a single chip that integrates a ARM926EJ-S core for applications processing and TI’s EDGE digital baseband modem.

The OMAP850 includes all of the features of the OMAP850 and adds support for 128Mb or 256Mb of stacked mobile SDRAM. This makes the OMAP850 well-suited for space-constrained systems or for even smaller, lighter mobile device designs. It also consumes less power than traditional external memory configurations.

With this kind of flexibility, mobile device manufacturers can further reduce the size of high-end, next generation smartphone and wireless handsets. In addition to its space-saving features, stacked SDRAM offers the additional benefit of reduced power consumption - always an important consideration for mobile device designers.

The OMAP850 processor is an integral part of the TCS3500 EDGE chipset solution.
It's based on one single chip which even handles the graphics, etc...

Paragon
12-22-2005, 07:52 PM
It's based on one single chip which even handles the graphics, etc...

Arne...it's a single chip....but it's multi core.

Jason Lee
12-22-2005, 07:56 PM
Yes, dual core. there are actually 2 200mhz processors in there. one for the radio an one for the ppc. That was the big selling point of the TI processor over the intel.

The imate k-jam ships with a special build of skype in the ext rom. It works.

Arne Hess
12-22-2005, 08:01 PM
It's based on one single chip which even handles the graphics, etc...

Arne...it's a single chip....but it's multi core.
Paragon... See the chart and check the dark blue parts! ARM and W-LAN uses the same resources!
Comparable to Centrino CPUs which have the same limitations to Pentium 4 CPUs with co-processors.

Paragon
12-22-2005, 08:11 PM
It's based on one single chip which even handles the graphics, etc...

Arne...it's a single chip....but it's multi core.
Paragon... See the chart and check the dark blue parts! ARM and W-LAN uses the same resources!
Comparable to Centrino CPUs which have the same limitations to Pentium 4 CPUs with co-processors.

Yes, I see that ARM926 and 802.11 a/b/g use the same processor, but GSM is using a different one....if I'm reading the graphic correctly.

http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&amp;navigationId=12000&amp;path=templatedata/cm/product/data/omap_850

Arne, I would bow to your knowledge over mine almost everytime. Your knowledge is far superior to mine....... but everything I see, and have been told about the OMAP processor tells me I have to disagree.

Arne Hess
12-22-2005, 08:21 PM
Yes, I see that ARM926 and 802.11 a/b/g use the same processor, but GSM is using a different one....if I'm reading the graphic correctly.

http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&amp;navigationId=12000&amp;path=templatedata/cm/product/data/omap_850

Arne, I would bow to your knowledge over mine almost everytime. Your knowledge is far superior to mine....... but everything I see, and have been told about the OMAP processor tells me otherwise from what you are now saying.
Okay, to make it short: all I said (the whole time) is that everything is coming together in *one* single chip with sub systems *only*. That's what I said all the time, nothing different.
Again, the problem is the single chip design, unlike Intel-/Samsung-based devices with two separate chips.
The single chip design is using sub-systems only which has advantages (as described by TI) but also disadvantages (as not described by TI). This is known and accepted by (some - like HTC) ODMs.

Paragon
12-22-2005, 08:33 PM
........and all I wanted to know was how those disadvantaged affected Skype? And why, because Skype doesn't run well on it, does that make it a poor processor.

But I think we have gone far enough with it, Arne. Have a good evening, my friend....I appreciate the knowledge you always pass on.

Dave

alese
12-22-2005, 09:33 PM
I think Arne is right. GSM part is anyway irrelevant for skype, but WiFi is not:
First the CPU core that handles processing for skype also handles WiFi which is typically used for skype - one 200Mhz core doing 2 things at once...
Second the communication with peripheral stuff is probably done on one bus, that needs to handle 2 cores, again a possible bottleneck...

Foo Fighter
12-22-2005, 09:41 PM
Anyone know when or if this device will be picked up a US carrier or vendor like iMate? :(

Paragon
12-22-2005, 09:43 PM
I think Arne is right. GSM part is anyway irrelevant for skype, but WiFi is not:


Very good point. I missed the relevance of that point earlier.

Foo Fighter
12-22-2005, 10:43 PM
Arne, how does the screen look? I wasn't very impressed with the i-Mate Jam's display. It appeared washed out and muted to me. Has this model improved over the old Magician?

Arne Hess
12-23-2005, 02:00 PM
Arne, how does the screen look? I wasn't very impressed with the i-Mate Jam's display. It appeared washed out and muted to me. Has this model improved over the old Magician?
Without having details about the used vendor here, for me it doesn't looked washed out (I know what you mean but it was even worser on the Xda III/IIs) but crisp and bright.