Questions on buying my first Pocket PC

[JesterMania]

Hi, I got some spare cash and as the year comes to a close, I have finally decided to take the plunge into a PDA. I know absolutely nothing about them. I did some research and found Pocket PC seemingly more preferable than Palm-based ones (for what I want to do) so I've settled on a Pocket PC, but I wanted some help in answering some of my questions because I can't afford to buy a Pocket PC, then find that particular model to be unsuitable for my needs, nor can I afford to be tricked by a sneaky salesman trying to upsell :devilboy: .

Here is what I want to do:
- basic organization stuff (calendar, tasks, contacts)
- office (word, excel)
- internet (web browsing, RSS, instant messaging, e-mail)
- map software (Pocket Streets 2005?)
- mp3 and video support (need colour screen)

1. First question is regarding the OS: I've heard of Windows CE, Windows Mobile, etc. what should I get and is it a good idea to make sure I get a device with the latest version installed? Can I upgrade the OS later?

2. I think 64MB of RAM should be suitable for my needs but I have no idea what clockspeed I need for the processor to handle my requirements. What would the bare minimum and recommended speeds be?

3. I've heard some Pocket PCs are being distributed with Word and Excel and other office apps. Do all Pocket PCs come with these office applications or does the software bundling vary? I guess what I'm trying to ask is...what is the bare minimum of software that is ALWAYS included with any Pocket PC device? That way, I can determine which software I need to make up for after buying the device.

4. As you can see, I want to listen to some music and watch an occassional video or two. There seems to be a lot of different types of storage media with varying capacities. What types of storage media should I be looking for (cheap, but large) and what is a good starting size to hold applications, videos, etc.

EDIT:
5. I just noticed there are different ROM sizes. What is stored in the ROM and what size should I be looking for?

Hmm...I guess that's really all I can think of right now. Sorry if this post was a little long but as I'm really at a lost, I hope somebody can give me a helping hand. 8)

[Guest979]

1. First question is regarding the OS: I've heard of Windows CE, Windows Mobile, etc. what should I get and is it a good idea to make sure I get a device with the latest version installed? Can I upgrade the OS later?


Windows Mobile 5.0 is the only current version for regular PDAs. There are also Phone Editions of many versions of Windows Mobile, but I don't follow that as closely. Older versions (in reverse order) included WM 2003 Second Edition, WM 2003 First Edition, PocketPC 2002, Windows CE...

Very few PocketPCs have ever received an OS upgrade. This is up to the individual vendors like HP and Dell.


2. I think 64MB of RAM should be suitable for my needs but I have no idea what clockspeed I need for the processor to handle my requirements. What would the bare minimum and recommended speeds be?


Most modern PocketPCs are at least 300-400MHz, which is probably enough for you.

Note that MHz are not a universal measurement across different processor types, but since all current PocketPCs use ARM-based processors, and most of them use the Intel XScale brand, comparing clock speeds does make some sense.


3. I've heard some Pocket PCs are being distributed with Word and Excel and other office apps. Do all Pocket PCs come with these office applications or does the software bundling vary? I guess what I'm trying to ask is...what is the bare minimum of software that is ALWAYS included with any Pocket PC device? That way, I can determine which software I need to make up for after buying the device.


All versions of Windows Mobile include Pocket Word and Pocket Excel (recently renamed to Word Mobile and Excel Mobile), since at least PocketPC 2002 and probably even earlier. Many people find these programs to be much more limited than they would like, and they prefer TextMaker from SoftMaker (www.softmaker.com) or even Documents To Go (for Palms).


4. As you can see, I want to listen to some music and watch an occassional video or two. There seems to be a lot of different types of storage media with varying capacities. What types of storage media should I be looking for (cheap, but large) and what is a good starting size to hold applications, videos, etc.


SD cards are currently far more common than anything else. An SD slot will allow you to share cards with most cameras.

CompactFlash is dying out fast, and nothing else has ever been popular enough to be worth investing in, IMO (cough... Sony Memory Stick... cough).

I think a 1 GB SD card is a great value, since you should be able to get one for about $50 if you look hard enough. I think they come in up to 4 GB, but those are still quite expensive. 1 GB goes a long way, anyway.


EDIT:
5. I just noticed there are different ROM sizes. What is stored in the ROM and what size should I be looking for?


On all PocketPCs, the ROM stores the the operating system. Since no one will ship a PocketPC with half an OS on it, any PocketPC you buy will have enough to store whatever OS it comes with. However, if you're lucky enough to get a vendor that decides to offer an OS upgrade for your model at a later date, you will have to make sure you have enough ROM to hold the new OS as well.

On some PocketPCs, especially HP iPaqs, additional ROM is included (I think HP calls it the "File Store") for you to use just like any other storage memory. Since it is completely nonvolatile (like the NVFS RAM on WM5 devices), I think it is intended for use with backup files and essential documents. However, I never use the File Store on my iPaq, because older iPaqs reportedly had weird bugs where the File Store could become "locked" in such a way that you would have to send it to HP to fix it.

[JesterMania]

Thank you for the very informative reply, I really appreciate it.

While looking for an actual model now, I noticed that a lot of Pocket PCs come with Bluetooth. I tried to do a research on that and all I got was that Bluetooth is an emerging standard used to connect devices together. What exactly is Bluetooth used for on PDAs? Can someone give me some practical examples?

[Ripper014]

First off.. I would not say that Compact Flash is dying out... but you will see less usage in some designs. This is strictly on PocketPC's designed to maintain a small profile. On the high-end devices you still find that both CF and SD are built-in. In fact I believe that they just released the first 8 gb CF Card. I believe that the CF card still has some life in it just due to the size... it allows more room for developement than a SD card. I still have many CF modules... such as a modem... radio... etc... and I find them much more sturdy than the SD format.

As far as Bluetooth... it is short-range wireless... you can use it to connect to a BT headset... or a BT GPS system... even a BT adapter to connect to the internet. The normal range that I have gotten the unit to work consistantly is probably about 25 feet. There are other uses... like connecting to a BT phone... (again to access the internet), but I would not be able to list them all... Just do a search on the internet... and I am sure you will get your answers.

[Guest979]

Okay, how about, "SD has largely surpassed all competitors as the de facto standard for flash memory, and its closest competitor, CompactFlash, has become significantly less popular in comparison."

There are a lot of different ways to explain Bluetooth, but no one seems to "get it" unless I just say, "It's a replacement for cables." Connect to your wireless phone, keyboard, whatever, without a desk full of spaghetti, and without searching through 8 million different adaptors for the right one. It's also good for quickly sending files back and forth with your computer. Some people even sync over Bluetooth, though it is usually much slower than USB (and obviously doesn't charge the handheld).

Although Bluetooth can be used to share Internet connections and other more "network-like" tasks, it is not really intended for this, and its limited range and speed will make this a very trying experience. If you wanted to provide wireless Internet within a given area, WiFi would make a lot more sense. Fortunately, many PocketPCs now have both.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

First, welcome to the forum JesterMania!

Guest979 has given some pretty good answers to your questions, though I'd like to clarify a couple of things. First, WM5.0 does not use NVFS RAM - it's still the same ROM as WM2003SE, though this may change as the technology improves.

Second, ALL Pocket PCs come with flash ROM way back since MS made this a requirement with the Pocket PC 2002 OS - not just iPaqs.

The best way to look at ROM is this - if I can use the analogy with a desktop PC, RAM is RAM, and ROM is your hard drive. Memory cards are like external hard drives (and in fact you can get CF cards that actually are working hard drives rather than solid state memory). Prior to WM5.0, RAM could also be used for storage, which as you can imagine causes no end of confusion for new users.

As a rule though, Guest979 is correct in one sense - RAM storage is actually preferred over ROM storage with the earlier OSs as its much, much faster in launching programs. For that matter, most memory cards perform better as well.

[Guest979]

Perhaps my post wasn't quite clear enough.

Yes, all PocketPCs have flash ROM to hold the OS, but (I think) only some provide additional ROM for you to use as regular storage space. That's what I was talking about with regard to the iPaqs and the File Store.

I have heard that PocketPCs that come with Windows Mobile 5 (not upgraded ones) use NVRAM instead of RAM - not instead of ROM. As with the newest Palm OS devices, using NVRAM to store documents and such prevents the data from being lost, even if power is completely drained. The latest PocketPCs do still have some RAM for running programs, since NVRAM is a bit slower. So, according to what I've heard, they have flash ROM, NVRAM, and regular RAM. I think the new Palms use NVRAM for everything (except ROM), which has generated some complaints about slowness (in addition to praise for data safety).

[Patrick Y.]

Perhaps my post wasn't quite clear enough.

Yes, all PocketPCs have flash ROM to hold the OS, but (I think) only some provide additional ROM for you to use as regular storage space. That's what I was talking about with regard to the iPaqs and the File Store.

I have heard that PocketPCs that come with Windows Mobile 5 (not upgraded ones) use NVRAM instead of RAM - not instead of ROM. As with the newest Palm OS devices, using NVRAM to store documents and such prevents the data from being lost, even if power is completely drained. The latest PocketPCs do still have some RAM for running programs, since NVRAM is a bit slower. So, according to what I've heard, they have flash ROM, NVRAM, and regular RAM. I think the new Palms use NVRAM for everything (except ROM), which has generated some complaints about slowness (in addition to praise for data safety).

All WM 5 device have the same file structure, including the upgrade ones. There IS no other options. The earlier version such as SE uses RAM for storing stuff and running programs. THough, WM 5 now uses RAM purely for program execution and store everything in ROM instead. So, all WM 5 Pocket PC have additional ROM space. The new x51v even has 192MB of available ROM storage to users.

Do a search in this forum and other PPC sites and you'll find plenty of useful information. :wink:

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Yes, all PocketPCs have flash ROM to hold the OS, but (I think) only some provide additional ROM for you to use as regular storage space.

That's what I was trying to clarify - that additional storage is available in all Pocket PCs from the 2002 OS onwards. The only difference between different manufacturers is the way they name it - iPaq File Store on HP, Built in Storage on Dell, Looxstore on Fujitsu Siemens, and so on.

[Guest979]

Okay, sorry for the slight confusion. I don't have a WM 5 device. Most only have RAM and flash ROM, not NVRAM. Flash ROM is used to hold all programs/data, and RAM is used for execution memory.

[Cybrid]

Hi, I got some spare cash and as the year comes to a close, I have finally decided to take the plunge into a PDA. I know absolutely nothing about them. I did some research and found Pocket PC seemingly more preferable than Palm-based ones (for what I want to do) so I've settled on a Pocket PC, but I wanted some help in answering some of my questions because I can't afford to buy a Pocket PC, then find that particular model to be unsuitable for my needs, nor can I afford to be tricked by a sneaky salesman trying to upsell :devilboy: . Find a local user group or store to get a "hands on feel".





Here is what I want to do:
- basic organization stuff (calendar, tasks, contacts)
- office (word, excel)
- internet (web browsing, RSS, instant messaging, e-mail)
- map software (Pocket Streets 2005?)
- mp3 and video support (need colour screen)Any PPC 2000 and later is capable of this. Pocket Streets is overpriced, try www.mapopolis.com



1. First question is regarding the OS: I've heard of Windows CE, Windows Mobile, etc. what should I get and is it a good idea to make sure I get a device with the latest version installed? Can I upgrade the OS later?
WinCe 2.1, Pocket PC (WinCe 3.0), Pocket PC 2002 (WinCe 3.x), Windows Mobile 2003 (WinCe 4...Ce .Net4),
WM2003SE (Ce .Net 4.x)
This is what many stores are still carrying
WM5 (Ce .Net 5?) is newest and at present fewest..... Only a small list of devices carry it.


2. I think 64MB of RAM should be suitable for my needs but I have no idea what clockspeed I need for the processor to handle my requirements. What would the bare minimum and recommended speeds be? In most respects yes, but after a few years you'll find yourself squeezing things in.....and wish for more...(based on WM2003SE and previous experience)



3. I've heard some Pocket PCs are being distributed with Word and Excel and other office apps. Do all Pocket PCs come with these office applications or does the software bundling vary? I guess what I'm trying to ask is...what is the bare minimum of software that is ALWAYS included with any Pocket PC device? That way, I can determine which software I need to make up for after buying the device.
Pocket Word, Excel, Inbox, Internet Explorer, MSN, Windows Media Player.
For all of which I use alternatives.....:rolleyes:
Some free, some not.


4. As you can see, I want to listen to some music and watch an occassional video or two. There seems to be a lot of different types of storage media with varying capacities. What types of storage media should I be looking for (cheap, but large) and what is a good starting size to hold applications, videos, etc.
Guest1979 is right that SD is most common. CF still exists and will do so. CF comes in higher/ cheaper capacity.
Do some math....
20 songs at 4mb=80mb
1 feature length movie= 200mb or higher.
512Mb card costs...$60-70




EDIT:
5. I just noticed there are different ROM sizes. What is stored in the ROM and what size should I be looking for? Only relevant in WM5 models, and bigger is better.
Previously RAM was divided into storage and program execution. You really only got 1/2 the advertised RAM for program execution....Which is where it is most relevant.
With WM5, the RAM storage idea was changed to ROM/flash storage. Thus freeing all 64Mb for program execution? not quite. The WM5 and OEM optimization overhead on the Dell X50v is so high, you still only get 30~ish Mb. You would need to research the WM5 device extensively to avoid bad ones.
That said I fully intend to upgrade to WM5 on my Dell X50v...


Hmm...I guess that's really all I can think of right now. Sorry if this post was a little long but as I'm really at a lost, I hope somebody can give me a helping hand. 8)LOL. that what this forum is for.

[JesterMania]

Thanks for all the help again. I knew from absolutely nothing to the basics now in just under a few days 8O . I think I've settled on either the Dell Axim x51/x51v or the HP iPAQ hx2490/hx2790. I'm currently leaning more towards the Axim though because I looked on both Dell and HP's websites for the suggested prices and the iPAQ seemed to be ~100CDN more expensive than the Axim, and I couldn't really find much difference between the Axim and iPAQ models (with the x51v having double the resolution of the hx2790). Having said that, it seems that most Dell products can only be acquired exclusively by online ordering whereas HP has more 3rd-party retailers, meaning maybe I can bargain with the shops to lower the price (I'm taking a trip to Hong Kong this holiday). Anyhow, I'm feeling quite excited already :mrgreen: .

If anyone knows of a good place where I can get either model in Canada (or in Hong Kong), please let me know as I'm having a hard time finding shops that carry these in Canada.