Gartner Advises Enterprises Halt Blackberry Deployment

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.mobilepipeline.com/174903876?cid=rssfeed_pl_mwp">http://www.mobilepipeline.com/174903876?cid=rssfeed_pl_mwp</a><br /><br /><i>"Enterprises should not deploy or invest in Research In Motion's BlackBerry "until RIM's legal position is clarified," market research firm Gartner said this week. In addition, Gartner urged enterprises to demand that Research In Motion (RIM), which has been struggling in a patent action brought against it by NTP, should publicly detail its plans for a workaround should it loose its suit. Besides getting details on the workaround, enterprises should also "carefully review their legal and operational impact," Gartner said in a research advisory."</i><br /><br />Perhaps I just don't get all the technical stuff here, but from a business standpoint, does anyone really think RIM will not beg/borrow/steal to get the funds to pay NTP enough to shut up about this?

[sooby77]

I don't know about you, but I am more bothered by the fact that as a premier research group, they can't even spell "lose" properly! :roll:

[bdegroodt]

I don't know about you, but I am more bothered by the fact that as a premier research group, they can't even spell "lose" properly! :roll:

Your first mistake is thinking they are a premier research group. They're really just hack-shills for the software companies. Pay to play as they say. Secondly, if I know Gartner (and I do), then the report was probably much more ambiguous than this. It was probably followed or preceded by plenty of paragraphs that discount such a direct recommendation. It's hardly their style.

That said, RIM isn't going away. They may have to pay dearly for NTP's consent, but they aren't going out of business over this.

[LarDude]

Squatters unite! Patent-squatters, URL-squatters, home-squatters, parkbench-squatters! Why do something productive when you can just squat?

Do they (the squatters) deserve some compensation? Certainly (after all, they did show some cleverness in choosing "what" to squat on). But Hundreds of Millions?...(Talk about the ultimate free lunch...).

Intellectual property vs Opportunistic squatting. What about Intent and Damage? I'm curious:
Is there any evidence that the squatters intend/intended to launch a competing product?
What is the material damage that they have suffered?

[Paragon]

Squatters unite! Patent-squatters, URL-squatters, home-squatters, parkbench-squatters! Why do something productive when you can just squat?


I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't RIM acquire their big fat wallet by patenting every imaginable thumboard configuration, then sued everyone who dared to market one? It looks to me like they are being threatened with the sword they used to get where they are.

Dave

[Darren Behan]

This reply is only tangentially relevant and basically a grumble so feel free to stop reading here.

For the most part, I have to say that I really don't care what happens. Never been a fan of blackberry devices, even less of those whose thumbs are glued to them 24/7 like in the men's room or in the middle of a funeral for heaven's sake.

Still, I wonder how many times a blackberry user has had to soft reset their device in say the last few months (276 or my K-Jam, yes that's a few times a day) or how many times they have to plug it in until it syncs (an average of three per sync for me about haldf the time requiring a soft reset). It's little wonder to me that there is an attraction to blackberrys (outside of the push email) like, for instance, it seems to just work.

Yes, I know that the PPC can do a thousand things that a blackberry can't. That's why I own one. But you know you have a problem when you won't do things with it for fear of it falling over as in disconnecting it from USB for a few minutes of normal use. If reliability continues to slip (and unfortunately it seems to be getting worse, not better), I seriously wonder what device I'll go with next.

[LarDude]

Squatters unite! Patent-squatters, URL-squatters, home-squatters, parkbench-squatters! Why do something productive when you can just squat?


I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't RIM acquire their big fat wallet by patenting every imaginable thumboard configuration, then sued everyone who dared to market one? It looks to me like they are being threatened with the sword they used to get where they are.

Dave

I dunno. That would be ironic, I agree. One slight contextual difference would be that a thumboard was actually part of their device and/or future devices, so one could look at it as "protecting their turf" in a very real and material way (again, Intent and Damage).

BTW, I've never owned nor even used a RIM/Blackberry device, so I have no vested interest in how this story eventually unfolds (correction: I guess if things go badly for RIM, WM5 could be a potential beneficiary). It's just that the action taken against RIM seems very "parasitic".

[JD Silver]

I'm now using a UTStarcom PPC6700 (aka HTC Apache) running WM5, and have found the device to be more stable than my previous PPCs. Perhaps WM is improving.

Question...Does the Blackberry multitask? A multitasking OS can certainly suffer on the stabilty issue, although I've had bad days with the Palm OS too.

[Paragon]

I'm now using a UTStarcom PPC6700 (aka HTC Apache) running WM5, and have found the device to be more stable than my previous PPCs. Perhaps WM is improving.

Sorry, this is off topic....I'll be quick. ;)

If I'm not mistaken Telus don't have EVDO in Edmonton yet. How do you like using the 6700 on 1x?


Dave

[daS]

Perhaps I just don't get all the technical stuff here, but from a business standpoint, does anyone really think RIM will not beg/borrow/steal to get the funds to pay NTP enough to shut up about this?
Of course, you are right. NTP has no real interest in seeing RIM stop production. They are simply using our courts to extort the greatest amount of money from RIM.

I only hope that this case - and others like it - get our Congress to revamp our broken patent system.

[MitchellO]

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000830071819/

Looks like RIM could solve their problems and end the lawsuit by giving over a small percentage of their profits for the next 6 years.

[JD Silver]

A quick aside for the question posted earlier regarding EVDO. Telus fired up EVDO in Edmonton last week. Nice and snappy performance, but I actually haven't been using it too much due to the pricing, I'm actually using the Wifi more. You can blow your way to the 50 Mb cap (on the so-called 'unlimited' plan) really quickly.

Hopefully Canadian EVDO prices will eventually drop.

[dorelse]

Last article I read put the new projected settlement figure at around $1 Billion, stupid NTP is going to die by the very sword they used to sue Palm with, so they'll get no sympathy from me.

I find it terrific that RIM could (and should) have started immediately paying the $450 Million dollar settlement. The first $1.00 accepted as partial payment would have begun enforcement of the contracts, and been harder to undo by the Judge. (Not that he couldn't have done it though.)

Instead, they delayed, appealed, stalled, renegotiated, etc...now it'll cost them double. Good for them! I'm sure RIM's counsel is very proud.

[scs_ppc]

I wrote a little piece about this over at http://www.pocket.now.

What do you think?

[daS]

Last article I read put the new projected settlement figure at around $1 Billion, stupid NTP is going to die by the very sword they used to sue Palm with, so they'll get no sympathy from me.
Unfortunately, all consumers - even thoughs of us that don't buy from RIM will lose if NTP wins on this.

It will simply embolden all the other parasites pay lawyers to extort money rather than working hard themselves to make a real product. The money they get simply comes out of the pockets of the consumers of the products that others make.

Do I like the fact that RIM did the same thing to Palm? No! But that certainly doesn’t mean that I relish the thought that this cycle continues. Unfortunately, the only winners are the societal leaches knows as litigation attorneys.

[Racer-X]

I wrote a little piece about this over at http://www.pocket.now.

What do you think?
1) your link doesn't work
2) being your first post it looks like you regestered just to spam

But that's just me...

[Ed Hansberry]

It will simply embolden all the other parasites pay lawyers to extort money rather than working hard themselves to make a real product. The money they get simply comes out of the pockets of the consumers of the products that others make.
I really don't understand this position. Are you saying that if I have a great idea and try to patent it but don't have the money to implement it, that it is ok for someone else to take my idea and captialize on it with no compensation to me? :?:

[daS]

I really don't understand this position. Are you saying that if I have a great idea and try to patent it but don't have the money to implement it, that it is ok for someone else to take my idea and captialize on it with no compensation to me? :?:
No. I'm saying that if you simply file a patent for something and do nothing else but wait for someone to independently develop the same thing (without actually taking it from you) you shouldn’t be able to wait until they have saturated the market and then seek to profit from their hard work. That’s not what the patent system was intended for.

And in this case, NTP has plenty of money. As I understand it, they have investors and they buy up patents and pay expensive lawyers to grab money from others. The patent office was set up to encourage innovation by protecting inventors from competitors taking their “new and non-obvious” inventions. That’s not what I believe is happening in this case.

In the current system, the patent office doesn't have the ability to research patent claims, so they just issue patents for bogus claims and expect the courts to sort it out their messes. The problem is that the courts currently provide the benefit of the doubt to the patent holder, and it can take the patent office many years to revoke the patent. In this case, most of NTP’s patents that are part of their claim are now considered bogus by the patent office after a review. However, that is only a preliminary finding and until the patent office formally revokes the patents (and of course NTP has appealed the rulings) the judge considers the current status to be that the patents are valid. The patent office review process is years behind the court case.

So most likely RIM would prevail in this case if the parallel systems didn’t ignore each other. NTP has the advantage that the courts are moving faster than the patent office. I believe that the patent office will finally rule that the patents on which the cases stands are bogus. But by then, it will be years after RIM has already been forced to settle.

On the other hand, there has been statements by RIM that they have new products that get around the NTP patents. If this is the case, then what I think is happening is that RIM is just holding off as long as possible so that they can get their new products to market and then agree to the injunction. Then they can just tell NTP and their lawyers to “go pound sand.” :lol:

[bdegroodt]

I'll save the space on quoting the above (daS), but I completely concur. The patent system (and I'm no lawyer, I just play one on PPCT) couldn't possibly have intended for ideas to just be horded by being the first to put it on paper. Rather, I'd like to believe the logical agenda of the PTO was to create a safer system that encourage the development (and I think that's a key term) of new-world efficiency for the good of the nation. Not developing (beyond concept) is about as valuable for the economy/nation's good as not having thought of the idea at all.

It would seem fair to allow a patent holder to have an appropriate amount of time to get the product developed and marketed, but to just allow a patent to sit on the books in some legal team's conference room drooling over the chance to take the easy way to profit hardly seems like a good idea.

[thenikjones2]

It will simply embolden all the other parasites pay lawyers to extort money rather than working hard themselves to make a real product. The money they get simply comes out of the pockets of the consumers of the products that others make.
I really don't understand this position. Are you saying that if I have a great idea and try to patent it but don't have the money to implement it, that it is ok for someone else to take my idea and captialize on it with no compensation to me? :?:

Don't you think you have to do something though? An idea by itself is valueless, unless something is done to put it into action.

I work with Technical Ceramics. If you want to patent a material that, say, is to be used for microwave filters, you need to specify a composition range and show that you have done development work to justify why you are selecting those materials. No results, no patent.

[Paragon]

Don't you think you have to do something though?

Yes, BUT, he is a company who never had any intention to do anything with this patent other than use it as leverage for a lawsuit. NTP apparently does absolutely nothing but buy up patents with one single objective in mind...sit on them till they find a suitably well funded organization that has perhaps infringed on their patent and take them to the cleaners.

Many will say they have every legal right to sue RIM, and they are right. Many others will say that the system is seriously flawed and being used in a way that was never intended. Patents were brought into being to protect people's rights of ownership. They were never intended to be a business model where millions of dollars can be made and lost in the courtroom.

I guess there is a flip side to this coin. If NTP had the ability to buy this patent from someone, then it's logical that RIM could have had that same opportunity to buy it. Maybe they even looked at that possibility and decide the price was too high and they would rather take their chances in court at some later date if that slim chance should happen......hmmmm....puts a different light on it doesn't it???

Dave

[daS]

I guess there is a flip side to this coin. If NTP had the ability to buy this patent from someone, then it's logical that RIM could have had that same opportunity to buy it. Maybe they even looked at that possibility and decide the price was too high and they would rather take their chances in court at some later date if that slim chance should happen......hmmmm....puts a different light on it doesn't it???
No, actually it doesn't. The patent process happens in secret. So the person who jumps in with an idea - and remember, the USA is now issuing patents for "business methods" as well as for the type of real inventions that the system was originally designed for.

So for example, if some Joe is the first person to apply to patent the "business method" of the use of a handheld computer to wirelessly send a fax for the purpose of confirming a hotel reservation. It will take the patent office over a year to issue the patent. In the meantime, nobody is informed that Joe applied. So now you come along and design a different system that sends faxes for hotel reservations - without ever hearing about Joe's idea or his patent - and you bring it to market before the patent office issues Joe his patent. Now he can sue you, or sell his patent to somebody else (most likely without offering it to you first) who is only in the business of suing folks like you.

So you are providing a product for consumers and later find out that Joe patented your idea before you did - even though Joe never actually produced anything. (Or perhaps you didn't bother to apply because you thought the idea was obvious and not unique enough to patent.)

RIM was not offered to buy the patents and they desiged their product long before the patent was ever public information.

[Paragon]

RIM was not offered to buy the patents and they desiged their product long before the patent was ever public information.

I don't doubt what you are saying David. I was really try to put forward some hypothetical ideas that put it all in a different light.

Dave