The Pocket LOOX N560: Too Good to be True? [Archive]

Darius Wey

12-07-2005, 09:00 AM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5335' target='_blank'>http://firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5335</a><br /><br /></div><i>"The Pocket Loox N560: 256 MB ROM/64 MB RAM; 624 Mhz processor; VGA; GPS; BT and 802.11g WiFi; USB Host; 2700g GPU/VGA out; February 2006 release date. These details are entirely unofficial and unconfirmed (obviously we asked - but no company is going to confirm a leak...!) and so must be counted as rumour only. The source, the appropriately self-entitled FSC Mole, does appear to be a genuine FSC employee (from information received)."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050629-FS.gif" /><br /><br />Nothing official yet, but if these rumours turn out to be true, then you better start dusting off that drool bucket. The N560 is everything but the kitchen sink (more RAM would have been nice). Axim X51v - watch out!

pocketpcadmirer

12-07-2005, 09:06 AM

This has all the things X51V missed.

This has better screen; offers USB host capability and in-built GPS.

Atta boy Fujitsu !! :) :D
Very nice specs indeed

Sunny

Menneisyys

12-07-2005, 09:07 AM

Cool - it seems it was worth the waiting and not getting the x51v :)

Muntasser

12-07-2005, 09:12 AM

word!

what can I say, that's straight cool///

now someone bump up the RAM and I'm on the bandwagon

Nurhisham Hussein

12-07-2005, 09:13 AM

*Sigh* there goes my credit card limit. :mrgreen: It sounds like everything I'd been hoping for, bar the CF slot, but I suppose you can't have everything.

Mr. PPC

12-07-2005, 09:29 AM

Stephen Beesley

12-07-2005, 09:31 AM

Well I will just have to join the chorus - although in my case I think this will probaby be my next PDA but one!

I am in the process (hopefully :) )of getting an Asus a730w (second hand and at a good price of course) which should calm my VGA desires for a while.

But...

Nurhisham Hussein

12-07-2005, 09:44 AM

The x51V has VGA screen as well, how is this units better?

Quite frankly, the Dell's screen (both x50v and x51v) is the absolute worse among VGA devices. It's not bad per se, but the color saturation is really poor compared to the PL720 or the hx4700 - it's barely tolerable for picture viewing. Plus this new device (if real) will have USB host (which is a killer feature) and integrated GPS (another killer feature). Plus the new N series devices that have already been released, despite having WM5.0, appear to have really good benchmarks - which makes this (if real :devilboy: ) the absolute king of the hill. FSC is supposedly got something even better up their sleeve - though I can barely imagine anything topping this! About the only thing not mentioned is the possible lack of a CF slot - but I can live with that, considering GPS is built in.

iant54

12-07-2005, 11:08 AM

February 2006 is Bonus month for me! What a happy coincidence!

Andy Whiteford

12-07-2005, 01:05 PM

February 2006 is Bonus month for me! What a happy coincidence!

Me too! Chances are the Acer n311 will be out first but hoepfully by then more details will be available about the N560 such as battery life etc. so I can make a more informed decision.
I had already heard about a new Pocket PC on the way with a 2700G and further contact led me to believe it would be a LOOX so this 'leak' only confirms it for me.

Fishie

12-07-2005, 01:56 PM

This has all the things X51V missed.

This has better screen; offers USB host capability and in-built GPS.

Atta boy Fujitsu !! :) :D
Very nice specs indeed

Sunny

The x51V has VGA screen as well, how is this units better?

One big question for this device (if real), what type of battery performance?

Battery life will be better I am sure, it has GPS and the wifi is G instead of B like on the Axim, that and as others have said the Dell´s have the worst VGA screens out there.

Menneisyys

12-07-2005, 02:23 PM

With the 2700g/VGA out, this gadget will be a definite killer. If F-S decides to keep the (quality) screen, that is.

Radimus

12-07-2005, 02:25 PM

but where do I put my 2gb of MP3s???

My 1gb sd card is for GPS maps and documents... Maybe someone will come up with a bluetooth mass storage device :mrgreen:

Darius Wey

12-07-2005, 02:41 PM

Maybe someone will come up with a bluetooth mass storage device :mrgreen:

Not anytime soon. ;) Considering the Bluetooth specification most devices support, a remote storage device wouldn't excel in speed. And even under Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR, you'd only be getting around 3Mbps.

Nurhisham Hussein

12-07-2005, 02:57 PM

but where do I put my 2gb of MP3s???

That's what USB host is for. Admittedly not much of an advantage when out and about - it's still a viable alternative in for instance a car.

My main worry about this device is with specs like these and FSC's established pricing strategy, I'd expect it'd go for a premium price approaching that of the Universal.

Dermot81

12-07-2005, 03:44 PM

I want this now!!! Can't wait till Feb :(

badbob001

12-07-2005, 04:20 PM

pocketpcadmirer

12-07-2005, 04:20 PM

Battery life will be better I am sure, it has GPS and the wifi is G instead of B like on the Axim, that and as others have said the Dell´s have the worst VGA screens out there.

Its axiomatic when I said "better screen" in my previous post. I said it because if you take "a quick glance" at Fujitsu's history, their screen quality has never been inferior..its more or less like SONY. Take simple example of FL720 whose VGA display is far better than X51V(or X50V)[place them side-by-side in the dark and you notice the 'big' difference]

Sunny

*** Excessive quoting moderated by DW. ***

pocketpcadmirer

12-07-2005, 04:27 PM

This has better screen

What makes you think it has a better screen? At least I hope it doesn't have the axim bug where the whole screen is shifted down by one pixel so the effective resolution is 480x639.

I think I've answered your question in previous post. My friend has X51V and he has never experienced the 'bug' you have mentioned.

In addition the FL720 screen has better color saturation(as previously mentioned), better contrast(not washed-off like Dell). In other words, it surpasses the Dell's VGA display.

<off-topic>Price wise Dell is still the cheapest VGA devise(n cheerful one too !! :wink: :wink: )</off-topic>

Sunny

Nurhisham Hussein

12-07-2005, 04:32 PM

..its more or less like SONY.

That's because it is a Sony - the Hx4700, PL720 and the various permutations of the Universal all use Sony-made LCDs (though from my limited testing the Universal's screen has a firmer surface - probably due to all the complaints about shadowing/smudges when touching the screen in the other two).

The Dell uses Samsung LCDs IIRC (or was it Sharp?).

Darius Wey

12-07-2005, 04:36 PM

The Dell uses Samsung LCDs IIRC (or was it Sharp?).

It's Sharp - both on the X50 and X50v series.

Darius Wey

12-07-2005, 04:38 PM

What makes you think it has a better screen? At least I hope it doesn't have the axim bug where the whole screen is shifted down by one pixel so the effective resolution is 480x639.

Are you sure this is a bug and not just a defect in your particular model? 8O I've never seen this issue in all the X50v's and X51v's I've played with.

pocketpcadmirer

12-07-2005, 04:40 PM

The Dell uses Samsung LCDs IIRC (or was it Sharp?).

It's Sharp - both on the X50 and X50v series.

Sir, you are half right. When it first came out, it was Samsung and later on the company switched to Sharp

Sunny

Nurhisham Hussein

12-07-2005, 04:46 PM

Yes, I vaguely recall somebody mentioning that, but I wasn't sure which came first. While I would love to have a PDA with the featureset that the Dell has, that screen was a huge turnoff for me - beyond the resolution, it wasn't much better than my 2210.

benyeap

12-07-2005, 05:14 PM

The 1st few batches of X50v were all using Samsung LCD. The current X51v & X50v uses Sharp LCD which is considerably better & improved than the previous. The current LCD has quite a strong layer of white tint, otherwise it is been okay for me.

Deus

12-07-2005, 05:40 PM

I have had both the HP and I currently have the X50v. Saying the HOp has better screen quality is almost laughable! And saying that picture viewing is barely bareable is just plain riddiculous!. I have many many many hours with these devices and besides the size of the HP screen I do not see netter quality in it.

Nurhisham Hussein

12-07-2005, 06:13 PM

I've handled three - none of them had very good color balance. If yours is a later version with a Sharp screen than you might have a point. But those earlier versions I'd seen had really disappointing screens.

beq

12-07-2005, 07:51 PM

I love it, but other than price I'd also want to see pictures of this device (unless it looks physically identical to the current Loox?). Will it be much bigger and heavier than the Acer n311?

I've also never looked into buying an FSC PPC. Are they readily available to be purchased in the US? Can they be purchased from online outlets like Expansys soon after they become available in Europe (Feb 2006 as mentioned)?

robert_biggs

12-07-2005, 08:08 PM

If this device really comes out it will be a killer device. But it most likely won't be available directly in the US. Plus, LOOX prices are about on par with HP = way over priced when compared to Dell. I just purchased a brand new Dell X51v for $279 USD. I'll bet this LOOX will end up way above $600 USD, which makes the Dell a much better value to most users in the US.

Menneisyys

12-07-2005, 09:39 PM

Patrick Y.

12-08-2005, 01:00 AM

OK, this is just too good to be true. Am I dreaming? 8O

mmidgley

12-08-2005, 03:51 AM

make it 128MB SDRAM and add quad band GSM/GPRS/EDGE and I'll pay $600-700 without blinking. (and that from a guy that's real tight with PPC funds--still using WM2003 on iPAQ 5555).

m.

huangzhinong

12-08-2005, 04:08 AM

Price and warranty will decide the future of this model in US. N311 only sells $382 ($13,000 Taiwan dollars), dell axim x51v is about $270~370 nowdays. If N500 is more than $500, it will have very small market here.

Of course some friends told me that dell axim x50v is very expensive in Europe, which may be the reason FS is popular there.

Nurhisham Hussein

12-08-2005, 04:18 AM

make it 128MB SDRAM and add quad band GSM/GPRS/EDGE and I'll pay $600-700 without blinking. (and that from a guy that's real tight with PPC funds--still using WM2003 on iPAQ 5555).

m.

Given the already stated specs, with those on top, and it'd be closer to the Universal's price range - more like $800-$900 (the big diffrence would be UMTS). And I'd pay that without blinking too.

Darius Wey

12-08-2005, 07:06 AM

Price and warranty will decide the future of this model in US.

Likely to be out of consideration for many. Costs of importing the N560 and the chances of having European warranty only may make the X51v a clear winner, despite the awesome specs of the N560 (if it exists).

DanielTS

12-08-2005, 03:29 PM

I've also posted a lengthy discussion of the specs of the new device, comparing it to the alternatives, with tons of cool links, to http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=364&more=1 - feel free to check it out :)
Great analysis ! Thanks !

Concerning Bluetooth (http://www.palowireless.com/bluearticles/cc5_newprofiles.asp), a great PPC must have a hands-free profile (HFP), advance audio distribution profile (A2DP)(O2 Atom’s feature), audio/video remote control profile (AVRCP) (O2 Atom’s feature), video distribution profile (VDP)…

Faenad

12-08-2005, 04:52 PM

- I have visited today the Mobile Office Trade Fair in Paris, where the Fujitsu-Siemens Product Manager for their Pda lines confirmed me the fact that the N560 is VGA and GPS Sirf III, all in the same form factor than the N520 (that means no CF)

I manipulated the N520, the device is really small and lightweight. Construction quality seems good. There is a plug for a GPS external antenna.

I don't asked for confirmation for all the specs, but the N560 device indeed seems a killer, all in a very pocketable form-factor (about the shape of a Loox 420).

- The FS product manager also told me that the 720 will be in stores until june 2006. No replacement planned now for the Loox 720.

- No mention of a ''550'' devices.
the N5xx series include the N500, N520 (both launched this week in Europe) and the N560 (release planned for mid february 2006).

- He and his colleague also mentionned a " 700" device which will not be a Loox 720 replacement but a Pdaphone. He indicated that the device will have a VGA screen. Release planned for june 2006.

- As for the price, they will not be as cheap as Dell, at least here in the EU. Here Dell is not very popular anyway, so the pressure is not as high.
For information :
- Here the N520 advised price for the release is 440€ tax included, or 530€ with a GPS software bundled (Navigon).
The N560 will probably cost about 600€.

- Here a new DEll X51V with a 20% Dell discount is about 400€.
The Hx4700 or Loox 720 costs about 550-600€

Still, I will rather have a N560 than a X51V. But choice shall be harder in the US, where Dell is cheaper ans FS more expansive...

BTW, I also seen all the new smartphones.
The S200 looks quite good, the material used for the case is different than the S100, very confortable to hold in hand.
The Eten M600 is disappointingly thick for a device without a Keyboard.
The P505 is a good surprise, the Phone keyboard is very nice. The Better Pdaphone for one-hand operation so far.

Menneisyys

12-08-2005, 05:10 PM

THANK YOU, Faenad!!!!!!! This info is invaluable. I've even made a blog entry of it at http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&title=information_on_new_fujitsu_siemens_devic&more=1 .

Faenad

12-08-2005, 06:53 PM

Menneisyys

12-08-2005, 07:37 PM

You're welcome :)

I was asked for a link to the Fair trade, here is it :
http://www.mobileoffice.fr/
Unfortunately today was the last day :?

Menneisyys, I was also given a FS leaflet with details and price information for the N500 and N520. Just ask if you want all the details.

BTW, this leaflet indicates that the battery for the N series is a 1200mAH, and that the weight is 160g (that's about 5.7 oz).
It will probably be the same battery and about the same weight for the N560.

It seems that battery life will be a weak point of this model, especially with integrated GPS. Although I will wait for the unit to be released to say.
For info Axim X51V's battery is 1100mah with similar specs except GPS. Loox 720 is 1640mAh and Hx4700 1800 mAh.

Cradle is not included in the box for the N500 and N520, but the Product manager "thinks" that it will be for the N560 (so it's not confirmed).

The cradle is very similar is shape to the Loox 420 cradle. I don't checked for possible differences.

Thanks - I'm not really interested in the N500/N520 (no QVGA devices for me). The N560, on the other hand, really caught my eye - if this is the final specs and the device doesn't have any problems (for example, a sub-par screen, compared to the HTC universal/PL720/iPAQ hx4700), it'll be my next device.

I don't think battery capacity can directly be taken into account to see how much battery life a given PDA has - there're a number of factors that directly affect battery life, capacity being only one of them. For example, the new Asus A636, which has a 1300 mAh battery, while it's just another also-run device IMHO in most respects (QVGA, lowish CPU speed etc) offers donzens of hours of uptime (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?topic_id=44616). And, there're vast differences between the WM2003SE devices too - the battery life of the A730(w) and the Dell Axim x50v (particularly with Wi-Fi and/or BT enabled) is much worse than one would think, based on their 1100 mAh battery, compared to the PL720/iPAQ hx4700.

EDIT: corrected some mistakes in English

Faenad

12-08-2005, 08:36 PM

yes, i have heard about the Asus too. It would really be the cherry on the cake if the N560 was to implement the same progress in battery life :)

beq

12-08-2005, 10:50 PM

This is really great, thanks Menneisyys and Faenad :)

According to FirstLoox (http://www.firstloox.org/specs.htm) the N500/N520 as well as the Pocket Loox 4xx and 7xx models are all designed by HTC, I wonder if HTC also designed this N560!?

Assuming the N560 will look physically identical to the N500/N520, are there any photos comparing the N500/N520 to the Acer n300 (n310/n311)?

According to FirstLoox the N500/N520 are: 116 x 71 x 14mm, 160g
Whereas Mobile-review (http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/fs-loox-n520-en.shtml) says they are: 116 x 70 x 15mm, 141g

According to Mobile01 (http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=61&t=102466&p=1) the Acer n300 is: 110 x 70 x 13.7mm, 135g (14mm thick per infoSync (http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/6165.html))

BTW it looks like neither the N560 nor Acer n311 has built-in camera, that's alright I guess...

beq

12-08-2005, 10:55 PM

I don't recall the policy on linking images (I apologize beforehand if this is a no-no, mods feel free to remove, or I can edit it gladly if asked).

Here's Mobile-review's pic of the N520 vs. Loox 720:
http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/image/fs/looxn520/pic11.jpg

Here's Mobile01's pics of the Acer n3xx vs. Loox 7xx:
http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/200509/mobile01-0a414d11ddf122bda1352e5e60e71d3e.jpg
http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/200509/mobile01-ed20c438282453b7a4efd8a72e4ff250.jpg
http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/200509/mobile01-deaf59ce06480f9cdd45cb247ce1c284.jpg
http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/200509/mobile01-ca7252c46f3f5bd2fc8596786698859c.jpg

*** Image links edited by DW. ***

Duncan

12-08-2005, 11:12 PM

This is really great, thanks Menneisyys and Faenad :)

According to FirstLoox (http://www.firstloox.org/specs.htm) the N500/N520 as well as the Pocket Loox 4xx and 7xx models are all designed by HTC, I wonder if HTC also designed this N560!?

HTC of course...! :)

According to FirstLoox the N500/N520 are: 116 x 71 x 14mm, 160g
Whereas Mobile-review (http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/fs-loox-n520-en.shtml) says they are: 116 x 70 x 15mm, 141g

The figures on our chart are, where possible, the official ones - as in the case of the N500/520. It may be that the difference in weight in the mobile.review specs are because they had an early prototype - 'b' instead of 'g' WiFi, half the ROM (only 64MB), non-functioning GPS (possibly the GPS wasn't even installed). The measurements - well - much depends on how things are measured (maybe the N500 series is 70.5 and 14.5 mm)...! :)

beq

12-09-2005, 12:27 AM

According to FirstLoox (http://www.firstloox.org/specs.htm) the N500/N520 as well as the Pocket Loox 4xx and 7xx models are all designed by HTC, I wonder if HTC also designed this N560!?
HTC of course...! :)
Thanks Duncan :) Then I wonder if HTC will OEM the N560 design to other companies as well (like HP, i-mate, etc)! I don't know whether the innards of the previous HTC-designed Loox models have also shown up as other brands or not, but the outer casing of the Loox models certainly look unique to Fujitsu-Siemens only...

If these Loox designs are unique, does that mean FSC is a very large customer that can merit such exclusive contract with HTC (whereas O2, i-mate, etc, have all just basically re-stamped their name on identical common HTC designs for the most part). Then again I guess HP's HTC-designed PPCs are also exlusive...

Anyways I'm going under the assumption that I'll be able to buy the N560 online somewhere come next Feb (600 euros is over US$700), vs. buying the Acer n311 this month? (I hear reports of about US$400?)...

Nurhisham Hussein

12-09-2005, 01:19 AM

I don't know whether the innards of the previous HTC-designed Loox models have also shown up as other brands or not, but the outer casing of the Loox models certainly look unique to Fujitsu-Siemens only...

They have...or more precisely they use some common components. The GPS is of course the SirfIII, the Sony screen is also used in the Universal and the 4705, the wifi and bluetooth chips are identical with a number of models as well.

I think the difference between O2 and company as against HP and FSC, is that the latter already have extensive design/engineering departments and probably went to HTC to source for components and for manufacturing purposes. For the former, I believe that HTC designed the products themselves and offered them for rebranding.

beq

12-09-2005, 01:55 AM

I think the difference between O2 and company as against HP and FSC, is that the latter already have extensive design/engineering departments and probably went to HTC to source for components and for manufacturing purposes. For the former, I believe that HTC designed the products themselves and offered them for rebranding.
Ohhh, that makes sense, I think I remember now. Thanks!

Menneisyys

12-09-2005, 10:50 AM

Thanks Duncan :) Then I wonder if HTC will OEM the N560 design to other companies as well (like HP, i-mate, etc)! I don't know whether the innards of the previous HTC-designed Loox models have also shown up as other brands or not, but the outer casing of the Loox models certainly look unique to Fujitsu-Siemens only...

In addition to what hishamh said, it's only Asus that doesn't make HTC their PPC's manufacture some (?) most (?) of their PDA's. For example, the Asus a730(w) hasn't nothing had to do with HTC, unlike with most other PDA manufacturers.

Darius Wey

12-09-2005, 11:08 AM

I don't recall the policy on linking images (I apologize beforehand if this is a no-no, mods feel free to remove, or I can edit it gladly if asked).

Thanks for the note. Generally, it's okay to link, but try and avoid using the IMG tags if you're pulling images off a server/webspace that isn't your own. Otherwise, for every instance this forum page loads, it leads to added load on the other party's server and added expenses on their behalf. It's much better to provide a direct link (as opposed to embedding the image) so that the images are viewed only by the readers who have an interest in them.

This isn't a set rule. We won't sit here policing the boards all day because of it and you won't be listed in our bad books either. We only do it out of common courtesy for the other party. :)

stevelam

12-09-2005, 05:45 PM

that means no CF

Noooooooooooooo :evil:

That killed it. Or did it? Argh the decisions.

Dose anyone know of an upcoming VGA PPC with CF?

ADBrown

12-09-2005, 09:54 PM

Quite frankly, the Dell's screen (both x50v and x51v) is the absolute worse among VGA devices. It's not bad per se, but the color saturation is really poor compared to the PL720 or the hx4700 - it's barely tolerable for picture viewing.

I have a friend who would like a bag of whatever you're smoking.

Anyway, this thing is ALMOST perfect. It's the only thing that has made me want to switch away from my Axim--until I realized that it has no CF slot. Eeesh. What, then, are you supposed to do for storage? I have a 4 GB CF card in my Axim, along with a 1 GB SD. I suppose I could sell those and get a 4 GB SD card, but that would still entail fresh expense, and I wouldn't have as much storage.

gibson042

12-09-2005, 11:10 PM

If you want CF on a VGA Pocket PC, then your list is sadly quite short. And there is apparently a divine edict against dual-slot SD :grumble:. Anyway, I hope you like Dell!

Nurhisham Hussein

12-10-2005, 04:33 AM

I have a friend who would like a bag of whatever you're smoking.

Blend 11 Virginia pipe tobacco :devilboy:

Menneisyys

12-10-2005, 10:21 AM

If you want CF on a VGA Pocket PC, then your list is sadly quite short. And there is apparently a divine edict against dual-slot SD :grumble:. Anyway, I hope you like Dell!

Fortunately, it seems the new VGA PPC Phone from F-S will also have a CF slot (and also a 2700g/VGA out) (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&title=more_information_revealed_on_fujitsu_sie&more=1).

gibson042

12-12-2005, 06:14 AM

Fortunately, it seems the new VGA PPC Phone from F-S will also have a CF slot (and also a 2700g/VGA out) (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&title=more_information_revealed_on_fujitsu_sie&more=1).
That is spectacular news, if true. I'm a fan of FSC, and if they do this right (i.e., do not remove any features already available in the 700 series) then I see them replacing almost everyone's Universal. Just please, please, FSC, don't continue this recent trend of sideways steps in place of actual improvements. I'll keep my fingers crossed, but June is so far away... I won't hold my breath just yet.

Jonathon Watkins

12-16-2005, 12:44 AM

Fortunately, it seems the new VGA PPC Phone from F-S will also have a CF slot (and also a 2700g/VGA out) (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&title=more_information_revealed_on_fujitsu_sie&more=1).
That is spectacular news, if true.

Sadly, it seems not to be: (http://www.firstloox.org/)

Having checked with the people in the know at Fujitsu-Siemens they have confirmed that the mock picture doesn't resemble, in any way, their planned Phone Edition device . . . and that the given specifications are "simply totally wrong".

I'm looking for a PPC with built in GPS and a CF slot as well. I'll keep looking then..... :?