Recommendations for a new device?

[CassBH]

Hope someone can help me. I currently own a T-Mobile Pocket PC Phone Edition and have had a lot of problems with it (I am on my 3rd replacement device). I am looking to buy a new device over the next few weeks and was hoping for some advice. Here is some info regarding what I need:

1) I do NOT need this device to be a phone (if it is, I would not use it for that purpose)

2) I would like to access the internot occasionally to check and return emails on a daily basis, surf the web occasionally

3) I will mostly be using it for calendar, contacts, Word docs, notes, viewing pics of the kids, etc.

4) Camera would be nice, but not mandatory.

I am sure I am missing a few things but that's a good start.

Any ideas?

Cass

[Darius Wey]

Cass, welcome to Pocket PC Thoughts. :)

Sounds like you'd benefit from a device with a VGA screen. I'd consider the Fujitsu-Siemens Pocket LOOX 720, HP iPAQ hx4700, or Dell Axim X51v. The The LOOX won't be receiving an upgrade to Windows Mobile 5.0, so if you "enjoy" keeping up with the latest software, then you should keep that point in mind. The hx4700 won't be receiving a Windows Mobile 5.0 upgrade until Q2 2006, while the X51v already has Windows Mobile 5.0. Note that all devices have Wi-Fi and Bluetooth integrated.

If you like a lot of storage memory by default, then consider the X51v (it has 256MB flash ROM), but also remember you can add in more by way of a storage card. Size-wise, I consider the LOOX 720 and X51v to be nice and compact. The hx4700 seems just a tad too big for my liking, but it has a slightly larger screen (4") though the resolution is still the same (VGA).

Only the LOOX 720 has a camera, but to be honest, I don't think you're missing out on much if you get a device without one. The quality of the image doesn't even compare to a decent digital camera, so it certainly doesn't replace it. If anything, you'd use it to take quick snapshots.

One other point worth considering is the fact that the X51v has an Intel 2700G GPU. So, if you have a VGA-out cable, you can plug it into a projector or widescreen TV and watch movies or playback a slideshow of pictures. If that's the sort of thing you'd like to do with the family, then the X51v sounds like the best fit for you.

[CassBH]

Darius,

Thanks for the reply. First and foremost, absolutely, I like to keep up with the latest software, so if I am going to spend the cash for a new divice, I would want WM 5.0....have you heard mostly good things about this operating system? Any major bugs to be aware of?

So it looks like I should check out the Dell Axim x51v.Is this relatively new?

Also, since the Pocket PC Phone Edition is the first PPC I have owned, I have the service through T-Mobile (I am in the US) and they use GPS for internet access. While it is not 100% trouble-free, I do love the fact that I can access it most everywhere while in my car. I do not have any experience with BT or WiFi. Can you fill me in on how these work and what their limitations are? Could I use GPS with a Dell device and what carrier would I need to go through?

Also, I am not as versed as I should be in this stuff. Can you tell me what VGA is? sorry for the newbie question, but I am still learning about this stuff! I am very anxious to get a new device, so my next question is, after my research and settling on a device, where is the best place to buy them? (good reputation, good customer support, etc?).

Thanks so much for your help!

Cass

[Darius Wey]

Thanks for the reply. First and foremost, absolutely, I like to keep up with the latest software, so if I am going to spend the cash for a new divice, I would want WM 5.0....have you heard mostly good things about this operating system? Any major bugs to be aware of?

There are users who have complained about sluggish performance, poor battery life, even random hard-resets. But this is more to do with devices which have been upgraded from WM2003SE to WM5. To be honest, I've not encountered any of these issues, especially not with devices that shipped with WM5 to begin with. I'm currently using an E-TEN M600 Phone with WM5 and it's very snappy. I've also played with an X50v upgraded to WM5, and an X51v, and to be honest, I've not had any issues with them.

The only thing you might want to keep in mind is that the first synchronisation of PIM data might seem a bit slow, but subsequent synchronisations should be fairly snappy.

WM5 has the benefit of a new interface, a revamped version of Outlook Mobile, the addition of PowerPoint Mobile, the inclusion of Pocket MSN and Direct3D Mobile, plus some minor tweaks here and there. All in all, I think the benefits far outweigh the costs.

So it looks like I should check out the Dell Axim x51v.Is this relatively new?

It's a powerful device which I think you would enjoy. Battery life isn't as good as the iPAQ hx4700, but it's still usable. You also have the option of purchasing an extended battery at the cost of added thickness (though it's not significant).

Yes, the X51v is new. It was released by Dell as an update to the X50/X50v series. Nothing stellar was introduced in this update except for 256MB Flash ROM.

Also, since the Pocket PC Phone Edition is the first PPC I have owned, I have the service through T-Mobile (I am in the US) and they use GPS for internet access. While it is not 100% trouble-free, I do love the fact that I can access it most everywhere while in my car. I do not have any experience with BT or WiFi. Can you fill me in on how these work and what their limitations are? Could I use GPS with a Dell device and what carrier would I need to go through?

So, the X51v does not have integrated GPS, so you essentially have two options: a Bluetooth GPS unit, or a CompactFlash-based GPS accessory. The former connects to your device wirelessly (Bluetooth is relatively pain-free to set up, in my opinion; you establish a partnership between the two devices and it's all smooth sailing from there). The latter plugs directly into the Pocket PC's CF-slot. Either way, it enables GPS functionality on your device. Some GPS units include software, some don't. If they don't, you can always shop around for some software packages, and there are a lot of fantastic ones out there.

The issue of which carrier you need to go through is something I don't have experience with since I'm not aware of what's on offer in your region (I'm assuming you're in the USA?). If you're in Australia, then let me know, and I can hook you up with some details. But generally, you only need to go through a carrier if you wish to pull real-time data such as traffic updates, etc. For standard GPS navigation, you won't need to worry about subscription fees or anything of that sort.

Also, I am not as versed as I should be in this stuff. Can you tell me what VGA is?

VGA describes the screen resolution. Most devices out in the market have a QVGA (Quarter VGA) screen, which is a resolution of 240 pixels by 320 pixels. Naturally, VGA has four times that, with a resolution of 480 pixels by 640 pixels. Example pictures don't really do justice. You'd have to see the devices in the flesh to appreciate the value of VGA, but let me tell you that VGA is truly stunning, and is perfect if you wish to use it to view pictures or watch videos.

sorry for the newbie question, but I am still learning about this stuff! I am very anxious to get a new device, so my next question is, after my research and settling on a device, where is the best place to buy them? (good reputation, good customer support, etc?).

If you're set on purchasing the X51v, then the best place would be through your local Dell office (www.dell.com). If you have your heart set on the LOOX 720, then you will have to order this in from Europe. Expansys (http://www.expansys.com/) might be your best bet, though I've heard some odd stories about their support sometimes. If you end up purchasing the hx4700, then I'd look at HP's online store or one of your local electronics department stores.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

I would want WM 5.0....have you heard mostly good things about this operating system? Any major bugs to be aware of?

Like any new software, WM5.0 has had...teething problems. Coming as you are from a much older device, I don't think you'd notice though - it's us guys who've used WM2003SE who're disappointed. You might even appreciate it more than we would.

So it looks like I should check out the Dell Axim x51v.Is this relatively new?

It's about a month old - it's so new it still squeeks.

I have the service through T-Mobile (I am in the US) and they use GPS for internet access. I do not have any experience with BT or WiFi. Can you fill me in on how these work and what their limitations are? Could I use GPS with a Dell device and what carrier would I need to go through?

Ahhh...I think you mean General Packet Radio Service, not Global Positioning System. They're quite different. Wifi and Bluetooth are also quite different, although they use the same frequency range - wifi is used on wireless networks that use the 802.xx technology, bluetooth is almost exclusively a device to device technology. Either can be used to access the internet, but only through another device or access point. Range is very limited compared to GPRS, which rides on your carriers signal. Typical wifi range from an AP is about 100m, while Bluetooth range is even less and usually doesn't exceed 10m. You can still use GPRS through the Dell, but not natively - you still need to purchase a phone to do the actual connection.

Also, I am not as versed as I should be in this stuff. Can you tell me what VGA is?

Beginning with WM2003SE, VGA (640x480) resolution displays were supported by the OS. Previously, the standard was QVGA (320x240) resolution. In effect, a VGA display has four times the number of pixels of a QVGA display. VGA devices are usually a lot more expensive - the Dell is the lone VGA device that could be considered midpriced. However, the advantages are a screen that is far, far better suited for reading, video, photo-viewing, well everything really. In layman's terms, everything on a VGA screen will appear much sharper and better defined than on a QVGA screen. I'd suggest doing a side to side compare if you really want to see the difference.

As to your last question - it really depends where you are and how far you're willing to go.

[CassBH]

Sorry, guys! I did mean GPRS...the method I use to access the internet. That being said, if I use Wifi or BT, do I have to be in a particular location in order for it to work? I would really like to be able to receive and send email without much restrictions...not sure the best way to do this. Right now, I can just get in the internet while in my car, and log on to my email carrier's website, and get my mail that way.

So hishamh, what are your feelings on this Dell device? Darius has good things to say about it, even though it is fairly new.

Cass

[Darius Wey]

Sorry, guys! I did mean GPRS...the method I use to access the internet. That being said, if I use Wifi or BT, do I have to be in a particular location in order for it to work? I would really like to be able to receive and send email without much restrictions...not sure the best way to do this. Right now, I can just get in the internet while in my car, and log on to my email carrier's website, and get my mail that way.

Ah, so it was GPRS. :) Yes, in order for you to take advantage of Wi-Fi or BT, you will need to be in a particular hotspot. So obviously, there's a coverage issue associated with this. If you wanted GPRS support with your Pocket PC, you would need to purchase another Phone Edition, or alternatively, acquire a CompactFlash-based GSM/GPRS card for your new Pocket PC. However, it's not really the best of all solutions, and I'd advise against that option to save yourself the headaches.

[PetiteFlower]

If you have a bluetooth phone, you might be able to pair a PDA to it and access the internet that way.

If you decide to go with the Dell (or to help you decide) you should check out Aximsite (http://www.aximsite.com), they have lots of useful Axim-specific tips and tweaks. You can also sometimes find deals and coupons posted there. I've found a lot of good advice there.

I have an X50v that I upgraded to WM5 and I haven't had any major problems with it. I'm not disappointed with the upgrade at all, I think it's clearly better then WM2003. That's just my experience though.

[Sven Johannsen]

As far as using a PPC and BT to access the internet through a phone with a data plan, that works quite well. It is a bit more of a hassle and slower to get going than on a Phone edition device.

Most mbile phones that even have the capability work fine if you just leave BT on all the time. After the initial pairing, You can leave the phone in your pocket or on yuor belt. I connect from the PPC by turning on BT, selecting the phone based connection and connecting. Then you can access mail, web whatever. Alternately you can turn on BT start the app, and it will ask you which connection you want to use.

With the phone edition of course, if you try to do something that needs a connection, it just does it.

So not much worse, but a few more steps.

[Patrick Y.]

Check out this: http://www.aximsite.com/boards/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=44714

it provide TONS of valuable information, tutorials, and many other useful stuff for PDAs. There are also some information on Wifi and Bluetooth.

Anyway, welcome to PPCT!!

Here are some more good sites for you to compare different devices:
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ppc.htm
http://www.pdagold.com

[CassBH]

Thanks everyone! I will check out some of the info and sites that you all recommended and get back to you on this thread with any questions (I am sure there will be a lot!). I need to finalize my decision on a device and add it to my x-mas list ASAP!

Cass

[CassBH]

If you wanted GPRS support with your Pocket PC, you would need to purchase another Phone Edition, or alternatively, acquire a CompactFlash-based GSM/GPRS card for your new Pocket PC. However, it's not really the best of all solutions, and I'd advise against that option to save yourself the headaches.

Darius,
Can you explain what you mean about the Compact Flash card and how that works in accessing the internet? Also, why is is not the best way to go (i.e. why would you advise against it)?

How do you and most other people access the internet? And is this something you do on a regular basis without too much hassle?

Cass

[Nurhisham Hussein]

He's talking about a GSM/GPRS chip packed into a CF card (to my knowledge nobody has done a CDMA version). Basically, the CF card turns your PDA into a GSM phone - sort of. Nice idea, but its got some gotchas - sound is not passed through the CF interface to the PDA, so you'll need to use a wired headset connected directly to the card to hear or speak during a call. 2nd, your PDA must be on at all times to recieve a call. 3rd, the price is equivalent to a decent standalone phone. Much, much more convenient to just get a bluetooth enabled phone - probably cheaper, less battery intensive on your PDA, and you don't have to deal with wires.

[alloafan]

I have a Dell x50v and have paired it with a Sony Ericcson T630 and it works fine for email and the internet (well, actually I can only get Pocket IE to show in a Hebrew font but that's another story!).

The screen is gorgeous too. Excellent buy, albeit the standard battery is somewhat lacking (I hear it's a little better in the x51v).

[CassBH]

He's talking about a GSM/GPRS chip packed into a CF card (to my knowledge nobody has done a CDMA version). Basically, the CF card turns your PDA into a GSM phone - sort of. Nice idea, but its got some gotchas - sound is not passed through the CF interface to the PDA, so you'll need to use a wired headset connected directly to the card to hear or speak during a call. 2nd, your PDA must be on at all times to recieve a call. 3rd, the price is equivalent to a decent standalone phone. Much, much more convenient to just get a bluetooth enabled phone - probably cheaper, less battery intensive on your PDA, and you don't have to deal with wires.

Not sure if you knew or not, but I am not looking for my new device to be a phone, so I don't need to receive calls/make calls, etc...just looking for the easiest and most reliable way to access the internet and send/receive email. Your response mentioned mostly phone calls, so I was not sure if you saw my post that mentioned that I did not really care about that feature.

[Patrick Y.]

Wifi will be enough if you want to access the Internet. However, you have to be close to a hotspot for it to work. Anyway, GPRS lets you stay connected most of the time, but the price of the card, as other mentioned, is outrageous.

[Darius Wey]

Not sure if you knew or not, but I am not looking for my new device to be a phone, so I don't need to receive calls/make calls, etc...just looking for the easiest and most reliable way to access the internet and send/receive email. Your response mentioned mostly phone calls, so I was not sure if you saw my post that mentioned that I did not really care about that feature.

Right. hishamh responded with most of my irks (you read my mind, mate). ;)

I still think Wi-Fi is the best option if you wish to access the internet wirelessly, but of course, you will need access to a hotspot in order for it to work. If you're still after a GPRS solution, then by all means, the card is a suitable option - but bear in mind a few points. First, the price. Second, the need for a SIM card to be inserted into the CF card in order for you to use GPRS. Third, the slow speed of GPRS. The suggestion of a BT-enabled phone is definitely a preferred alternative. You pair your PDA to the phone, and enable the phone to act as a modem. Since you plan to have two separate devices anyway (one PDA, one phone), this should work out as the best option for you.

[CassBH]

Right. hishamh responded with most of my irks (you read my mind, mate). ;)

I still think Wi-Fi is the best option if you wish to access the internet wirelessly, but of course, you will need access to a hotspot in order for it to work. If you're still after a GPRS solution, then by all means, the card is a suitable option - but bear in mind a few points. First, the price. Second, the need for a SIM card to be inserted into the CF card in order for you to use GPRS. Third, the slow speed of GPRS. The suggestion of a BT-enabled phone is definitely a preferred alternative. You pair your PDA to the phone, and enable the phone to act as a modem. Since you plan to have two separate devices anyway (one PDA, one phone), this should work out as the best option for you.

OK, I am thinking about upgrading my phone this week to the Motorola E815, which has BT. So, do I pay Verizon for a monthly service in order to get internet access using my phone and PDA? Sorry for the newbie questions, but I only have experience with GPRS.

Also, if GPRS is so easy to access (no other devices needed, no need to be in a Hot Spot), then why don't more people use it? (I don't know anyone else who uses it, in fact!).

Thanks for your patience and wisdom :)

Cass

[Nurhisham Hussein]

The reason why GPRS is less used than hotspot/wifi access is that it typically involves a pay per use fee - you pay based on the amount you access, whereas for wifi its typically a flat fee irrespective of the amount downloaded. The second main reason is that GPRS is slow - crawls in fact. GPRS was originally intended for use with WAP sites, which are kilobyte friendly in that they're usually pure text. It's not that affordable for full scale sites, what with graphics and flash and lots of other content.

For e-mail use as you intend, then GPRS is fine, as long as you're not looking to download big e-mail attachments. For pure web-browsing, then wifi is preferred. If you've already used GPRS before than most likely you already have a data plan, and it isn't necessary to get another plan from your telco. Wifi access isn't carried by telcos (yet), so you'll need to deal with whoever owns each individual hotspot. Quite a few are free, but most require some fee (e.g. hotels, restaurants).

[CassBH]

For e-mail use as you intend, then GPRS is fine, as long as you're not looking to download big e-mail attachments. For pure web-browsing, then wifi is preferred. If you've already used GPRS before than most likely you already have a data plan, and it isn't necessary to get another plan from your telco. Wifi access isn't carried by telcos (yet), so you'll need to deal with whoever owns each individual hotspot. Quite a few are free, but most require some fee (e.g. hotels, restaurants).

Well, since not many devices seem to be geared towards GPRS and I have had nothing but problems with my PPC Phone Edition, then it appears that I should try soemthing new, like Wifi or BT. So, if I invest in the Dell Axim v51, and I have a BT phone (Motorola E815), then I can use those 2 together to access the internet? Sounds like there may be a lot of steps involved. Can someone walk me through it? What service do I need to sign up for, service through my cell phone carrier? And how can I tell if a place has Wifi? I am guessing, then, to access my email or the internet with WiFi or BT, I need to be out of my car and in some establishment that does this stuff?

Cass

[CassBH]

Hoping you could tell me if this will be a problem. The motorola phone I am thinking of getting has BT. This is the description listed for BT and connecting capabilities:


"Featuring Bluetooth capabilities, users have the freedom to move without wires. Limited to a 10 meter radius, pairing with headsets, computers, or peripherals is quick and easy. However, Verizon Wireless has no OBEX (Object Exchange) profile support, meaning sending multimedia from the E815 to another device isn't possible. A common trend among Verizon Wireless phones, disabling transfer abilities forces its customers to use its fee-based Get It Now service rather than sharing ringtones, wallpapers, games, and videos with friends."

Does this sound like it would work with a PPC to access the internet?

Cass

[Patrick Y.]

It should.

[CassBH]

But the E815 is not without its drawbacks. Unfortunately, what disappointed V710 consumers were hoping for wasn't going to change; Verizon Wireless had once again disabled Bluetooth transfer and dial-up capabilities. More concerned about profit than the satisfaction of its consumers, Verizon Wireless cripples all its Bluetooth-enabled phones. But there have been some work-arounds...

Here's more info on this phone. If I am going to use the phone's BT technology to connect to the internet on my PPC, this doesn't sound too promising!

Cass

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Disclaimer - (please don't anybody knock me when I'm saying this - it's for newbie education)

Cass, when we talk about using a BT phone to access the internet through a PDA, we're actually talking about GPRS. Bluetooth on its own is better characterised as a cable-replacement protocol. It doesn't establish a full network - for example you don't have access to any other bluetooth devices unless you do a direct connection. What actually happens in a two device BT setup, is that your PDA uses the phone as a modem through BT to access the internet via GPRS.

Wifi is different. In this case, the hotspot or AP has a direct wired connection to the internet and functions as a gateway. Any devices connected to it are just like computers in a normal windows network. The only difference is that your connection to the network hub is wireless.

Verizon Wireless had once again disabled Bluetooth transfer and dial-up capabilities

The question is moot as your statement above means essentially you can't do what we've been describing anyway. The dialup profile is essential to getting GPRs access through a BT modem. I've heard of people getting around this, but I don't know any details, sorry.

In case you want to know, to get a GPRS connection through a BT phone modem from a PDA, you basically have to duplicate the dialup settings on your phone onto your PDA in the network connections. This is usually set up automatically in a PDA phone, but not on a PDA.

For wifi access, there are quite a few wifi sniffers (some free) that can detect networks in range. Be careful though, because connecting and using a private wireless network without prior permission may expose you to fines and/or legal prosecution depending on the laws of your state. There's already one case in Florida of a successful prosecution of a war-driver involving jail time.

You can try googling for 'free wifi hotspot' - I believe that there are a few sites that try to document where these exist worldwide. To actually get a wifi connection, yes you'll have to be fairly close to the Access Point - max theoretical range is usually around 100m, but to maintain a steady connection and best download rate, you'll probably need to be within 30m or less (depending on obstructions and signal interference). That's why wifi is perfect as a business proposition for people like Starbuck's - you actually have to be in the place to actually use the service.

[Patrick Y.]

Disclaimer - (please don't anybody knock me when I'm saying this - it's for newbie education)



knock, knock. :mrgreen: :P Am I breaking the disclaimer?

Though, nicely said.

To Cass, there are PLENTLY of blutooth phone out there for verison even if they disabled a few.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

:D I was afraid of BT trolls - they don't like the term 'cable replacement'! :devilboy:

[Patrick Y.]

To cass: I'm not sure, but you seem to be confused about bluetooth.

Bluetooth is a standard for different wireless devices to communicate with each other using short-range radio links. The nods on the network, however, all need bluetooth in order to communicate. Unlike IR, however, the device does not need to be in direct contact. A bluetooth phone, for example, can download data from a bluetooth computer in another room. You can establish a point to point network (two devices), or point to multipoint network (one host, several slave (or client) devices) with bluetooth. As hishamh said, you can access the internet with it on a Pocket PC THROUGH a bluetooth enabled phone.

You should read this tutorial for more information. http://www.aximsite.com/bluetooth/

[CassBH]

OK, forgive me but my head is spinning!!! I will go back and re-read all the info you guys sent on BT and WiFi, as well as the tutorial that someone was kind enough to send. By the end of the week, I hope it will all sink in.

In the meantime, do most of you use BT or WiFi on a more regualr basis? And also, since my need for a phone is immediate (mine broke, got nothing right now!), someone commented on Verizon having some decent BT enabled phones....any recommendations?

Cass

[Darius Wey]

In the meantime, do most of you use BT or WiFi on a more regualr basis?

I use both just as much as each other. Bluetooth for pairing my headset with my Pocket PC Phone, and Wi-Fi for accessing the internet. Of course, "your mileage may vary".

And also, since my need for a phone is immediate (mine broke, got nothing right now!), someone commented on Verizon having some decent BT enabled phones....any recommendations?

I'll let someone from the USA fill you in on which phone from Verizon is best. While you're waiting, you should visit www.verizonwireless.com for a general idea of what they have on offer.

[CassBH]

Darius,

Thanks for the reply. I just spoke with a Verizon rep and he confirmed that none of their phones that have BT support Object Transfer....so I think that means you can't pair them with a PPC to access the internet.

Cass

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Cass, the object transfer (OBEX) profile isn't necessary - it's just another way to send files to and from a device. Think of it as using file explorer on a network. It most definitely is not necessary for GPRS access. What matters is the dial-up networking profile - i.e. the ability to use your phone as a modem for your PDA.

FWIW, I mainly use bluetooth/GPRS to access the internet, and wifi for network access and syncing at home - exactly the opposite of Darius. As he says YMMV.

[Janak Parekh]

Sigh. Verizon and Bluetooth is a headache. :( Basically, Verizon doesn't like Bluetooth, and the only thing they want you to use it for is headsets. They prefer that data consumers buy a Pocket PC Phone or a PC card straight from them. The Samsung i730 (http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=phoneFirst&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=1780) is actually a very nice Pocket PC phone, but a bit expensive and only runs WM2003SE.

Anyway... that's what's officially preferred, but if you research further, it gets more complicated. From this page (http://dts.vzw.com/faqs/Bluetooth/faq.html#item9), where Verizon documents profile support, only the V710 officially supports Bluetooth modem dialup. Unofficially, clever users have managed to hack (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=674803) the e815 to do lots of things it wasn't officially designed to do. I presume those are not permitted under the Terms of Service (TOS) of a Verizon Wireless contract, but people have gotten away with it to varying degrees.

If you are really keen on setting up Bluetooth with Verizon, I suggest you start with the above-linked e815 discussion and explore HowardForums -- they've got the most extensive discussion on the subject -- but it's hours of reading. If you want a more officially supported Bluetooth dial-up solution, your best bet is with another carrier.

--janak

[CassBH]

Cass, the object transfer (OBEX) profile isn't necessary - it's just another way to send files to and from a device. Think of it as using file explorer on a network. It most definitely is not necessary for GPRS access. What matters is the dial-up networking profile - i.e. the ability to use your phone as a modem for your PDA.

FWIW, I mainly use bluetooth/GPRS to access the internet, and wifi for network access and syncing at home - exactly the opposite of Darius. As he says YMMV.

OK, that's good to know about the OBEX, because otherwise I like Verizon and would rather not have to switch. In the meantime, when you say you use BT and GPRS, I am confused (shocking, huh?). I thought you use either BT or GPRS. For example, I have been using strictly GPRS since I have a Phone Edition. Unless there are some rockin' new PHone Editions out there (which I doubt, as I seem to be the only one on the planet using one of these things!), then I would like to get a new PPC/PDA and as such, am forced to use a new way of getting/sending email and accessing the internt. So, can you walk me through how you use BT and/or GPRS... i.e. do you use a phone as a modem, do you use BT and GPRS at the same time, if so how do you do that, etc?

God help me, one day I will understand all this stuff. In the meantime, a lot of the answers I get on forums can confuse me even more, as I don't know all the lingo and technology.

Cass

[CassBH]

Sigh. Verizon and Bluetooth is a headache. :( Basically, Verizon doesn't like Bluetooth, and the only thing they want you to use it for is headsets. They prefer that data consumers buy a Pocket PC Phone or a PC card straight from them. The Samsung i730 (http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=phoneFirst&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=1780) is actually a very nice Pocket PC phone, but a bit expensive and only runs WM2003SE.

Anyway... that's what's officially preferred, but if you research further, it gets more complicated. From this page (http://dts.vzw.com/faqs/Bluetooth/faq.html#item9), where Verizon documents profile support, only the V710 officially supports Bluetooth modem dialup. Unofficially, clever users have managed to hack (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=674803) the e815 to do lots of things it wasn't officially designed to do. I presume those are not permitted under the Terms of Service (TOS) of a Verizon Wireless contract, but people have gotten away with it to varying degrees.

If you are really keen on setting up Bluetooth with Verizon, I suggest you start with the above-linked e815 discussion and explore HowardForums -- they've got the most extensive discussion on the subject -- but it's hours of reading. If you want a more officially supported Bluetooth dial-up solution, your best bet is with another carrier.

--janak

Well, looks like I might need to leave Verizon if I want to be able to use BT with a PDA/PPC. Are there any PPC Phones out there? Thing is, I would rather not have my phone and PDA be one device (right now, even though I have a Phone Edition, I do not use it as a phone. I have a separate device for that).

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Since Bluetooth is a 'cable replacement' radio, what I've done is pair my PDA with my phone through bluetooth - this step means that the devices automatically recognise each other everytime they're near. I don't have bluetooth on all the time, because I also use a bluetooth headset with my phone, but the headset defaults to the PDA whenever bluetooth is on (my phone by comparison has bluetooth on all the time). Before anybody comments, I know I can have my headset default to the phone, but I'm too lazy to fiddle with the original pairings.

Therefore whenever I'm trying to get on the internet with GPRS, I turn on bluetooth on my PDA, use the dialup settings on my PDA to call up my carrier's GPRS service through my phone, using bluetooth as the communications medium between my PDA and my phone. Essentially in this case, bluetooth replaces a direct serial cable connection between my PDA and my phone. A phone edition PPC doesn't need to have this extra step, because the phone, PDA and modem are all in one device (even if physically they operate separately inside the device).

BTW, there're loads of PDA phone devices out right now, with more on the way - they're all the rage. Unfortunately none of them have the specs or capabilities in one device that I can get with a separate phone/PDA combo - not even the Universal - which is why I've stuck to a two device approach all this while.

[CassBH]

Since Bluetooth is a 'cable replacement' radio, what I've done is pair my PDA with my phone through bluetooth - this step means that the devices automatically recognise each other everytime they're near. I don't have bluetooth on all the time, because I also use a bluetooth headset with my phone, but the headset defaults to the PDA whenever bluetooth is on (my phone by comparison has bluetooth on all the time). Before anybody comments, I know I can have my headset default to the phone, but I'm too lazy to fiddle with the original pairings.

Therefore whenever I'm trying to get on the internet with GPRS, I turn on bluetooth on my PDA, use the dialup settings on my PDA to call up my carrier's GPRS service through my phone, using bluetooth as the communications medium between my PDA and my phone. Essentially in this case, bluetooth replaces a direct serial cable connection between my PDA and my phone. A phone edition PPC doesn't need to have this extra step, because the phone, PDA and modem are all in one device (even if physically they operate separately inside the device).

BTW, there're loads of PDA phone devices out right now, with more on the way - they're all the rage. Unfortunately none of them have the specs or capabilities in one device that I can get with a separate phone/PDA combo - not even the Universal - which is why I've stuck to a two device approach all this while.

Am I lazy or does that process seem like a whole lot of work to go through to access the internet? (Maybe I have just had it easy with GPRS on my device). What do you think might be the major "specs or capabilities" i might be giving up if bought another PDA phone instead of a standard PDA?

Cass

[Janak Parekh]

Am I lazy or does that process seem like a whole lot of work to go through to access the internet? (Maybe I have just had it easy with GPRS on my device).
When it's properly set up, no. If you leave BT on and idle on your cellphone, it's just a matter of hitting a button or two to start the connection on the PDA.

What do you think might be the major "specs or capabilities" i might be giving up if bought another PDA phone instead of a standard PDA?
Depending on which you get, not a whole lot. The PDA phones today have decent memory, battery life, screen, etc. In fact, one advantage of a PDA phone is that you get vibrate functionality not only for rings, but for reminders. PDA phones do not have CF slots, and of course you've got a (bit) bigger device to carry around as a phone. You might want to stop by a store and take a look at the newest ones before deciding one way or another.

--janak

[CassBH]

The PDA phones today have decent memory, battery life, screen, etc. In fact, one advantage of a PDA phone is that you get vibrate functionality not only for rings, but for reminders. PDA phones do not have CF slots, and of course you've got a (bit) bigger device to carry around as a phone. You might want to stop by a store and take a look at the newest ones before deciding one way or another.

--janak

What if I choose not to actually use it as a phone? Like right now, I have the PPC Phone Edition through T-Mobile because it had GPRS to access the internet, and I could have unlimited internet access for $30 a month. Would any PPC Phone give me the option of using GPRS for internet access?

[Darius Wey]

What if I choose not to actually use it as a phone? Like right now, I have the PPC Phone Edition through T-Mobile because it had GPRS to access the internet, and I could have unlimited internet access for $30 a month. Would any PPC Phone give me the option of using GPRS for internet access?

If it supports GPRS, then yes, you could do the same. However, I'd be interested to hear why you still wouldn't want to use it as a phone. When it comes to Windows Mobile, the convergence theme gets a big thumbs up from many of the readers on this forum, primarily because it's so convenient and it avoids the headaches and confusion involved with pairing devices through BT, attempting to find an appropriate BT-enabled phone through a carrier (in your case, Verizon), and so on.

[CassBH]

If it supports GPRS, then yes, you could do the same. However, I'd be interested to hear why you still wouldn't want to use it as a phone. When it comes to Windows Mobile, the convergence theme gets a big thumbs up from many of the readers on this forum, primarily because it's so convenient and it avoids the headaches and confusion involved with pairing devices through BT, attempting to find an appropriate BT-enabled phone through a carrier (in your case, Verizon), and so on.

Well, first, the size. There are times when I need my phone on me, but don't need my PPC. There is not doubt that all these PPC phones are much bigger than an ordinary flip phone. Also, when something goes wrong with your PPC, now something has gone wrong with your phone, too. Not a very secure feeling. Right now, if I held my PPC Phone Edition up to my ear to answer a call, I'd feel like a complete moron! It looks so strange! Maybe a vain and not very viable reason, but a reason nonetheless. Are there are really cool phone editions I am missing? I don't hear many people talk about using phone/PDA's...maybe I am not looking in the right places?

Cass

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Right now, if I held my PPC Phone Edition up to my ear to answer a call, I'd feel like a complete moron!

That's why so many with PDA phones invest in a bluetooth headset at the same time. "See ma, no hands!" :lol:

I don't hear many people talk about using phone/PDA's...maybe I am not looking in the right places?

Hang around here long enough, and you'll hear plenty. There are a lot of new models coming out that may suit you.

Am I lazy or does that process seem like a whole lot of work to go through to access the internet?

Only the initial setup stage - after that its pretty much one touch, two on the outside. The setup stage can be pretty hairy though.

[CassBH]

Hang around here long enough, and you'll hear plenty. There are a lot of new models coming out that may suit you.

Have you heard much about the iMate K-Jam? This looks like it might have a lot of things I am looking for. BT, GPRS capability, camera, Microsoft Windows Mobile 2005, etc.....

Have you heard much about it?

Cass

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Yes, I have - it's a decent device, though I wouldn't get hot and bothered about the camera. The keyboard is a nice addition though.

[CassBH]

Yes, I have - it's a decent device, though I wouldn't get hot and bothered about the camera. The keyboard is a nice addition though.

since you have got my brain considering a phone device, are there any out there that you have heard good things about that might be worth my checking out?

[Nurhisham Hussein]

:lol:

I'm the wrong person to ask about that - none of the current PDA phones really appeal to me. IMHO you pay for the convenience, while sacrificing flexibility and performance. Maybe somebody else will chip in.

[Darius Wey]

since you have got my brain considering a phone device, are there any out there that you have heard good things about that might be worth my checking out?

Size appears to be a key issue for you, so here are a few suggestions:

• E-TEN M600 (great device; very fast, includes Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, but no infrared)
• O2 Xda Atom (won't be released until Dec 7; very compact, includes Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, and even a radio tuner)
• i-mate K-JAM (already mentioned)
• Sprint PPC-6700 (a bit bigger, and relies on a different carrier altogether)

[CassBH]

I am still really hesitant to do the converged device thing. I think i would rather keep my phone and PDA separate. Problem is, if I get a new phone through Verizon that has BT (they are my current carrier), I have heard that they "cripple" their BT, so that it does not work in all the same capacities as other BT phones. Not sure if this will be a problem pairing with a PDA or not. I will have to look further into this.

I will look more into the Dell Axim...I just wish I knew someone who uses this BT technology to access the internet so I could see how it works in person! Maybe then I would be less hesitant to part with this GPRS/Phone Edition device!

[Janak Parekh]

I am still really hesitant to do the converged device thing. I think i would rather keep my phone and PDA separate. Problem is, if I get a new phone through Verizon that has BT (they are my current carrier), I have heard that they "cripple" their BT, so that it does not work in all the same capacities as other BT phones. Not sure if this will be a problem pairing with a PDA or not.
As I mentioned earlier, this is hit-and-miss; if you decide on a BT phone with Verizon, make sure to do research and see how it's supported.

As for PDA phones, you'd be amazed at the size. Others have mentioned the K-JAM/HTC Wizard; the Samsung i730 on Verizon is also surprisingly compact. Verizon is rumored to be releasing the HTC Apache (the CDMA version of that Wizard) early next year. They will also be releasing a Windows Mobile version of the Palm Treo in January, which may be an attractive choice.

Good luck with your research.

--janak

[CassBH]

As I mentioned earlier, this is hit-and-miss; if you decide on a BT phone with Verizon, make sure to do research and see how it's supported.

As for PDA phones, you'd be amazed at the size. Others have mentioned the K-JAM/HTC Wizard; the Samsung i730 on Verizon is also surprisingly compact. Verizon is rumored to be releasing the HTC Apache (the CDMA version of that Wizard) early next year. They will also be releasing a Windows Mobile version of the Palm Treo in January, which may be an attractive choice.--janak

The idea of "hit or miss" does't make me feel all that good. Do you currently have a phone device as well? You also seem pretty knowledge able about Verizon....are they your service provider? If I went the Phone/PDA route, I would hate to leave Verizon, as I like their phone service and wide coverage area (hard to give that up!).

[Janak Parekh]

The idea of "hit or miss" does't make me feel all that good.
Tell me about it. :( I currently carry an i600 Smartphone on Verizon. Their coverage is hard to beat. But the i600 doesn't have Bluetooth, so it's USB cable-land if I want to connect it to a laptop. The nice thing about using a PDA/Phone on Verizon is you then don't have to worry about BT support (unless you want to tether to a laptop). However, you need to evaluate Verizon's choice and pricepoints before reaching that decision. As I've said before, people have successfully gotten BT DUN to work with some effort and research.

--janak

[shindullin]

A very good friend of mine has a Samsung i730 on Verison and loves it. I wouldn't be so hot on getting the latest operating system. In my opinion, as a newbie, getting slightly older device is actually advantageous. WM5 has only been out for a few months and you would be hard pressed to fix things if you ended up having OS related-problems with your phone. On the other hand, Win2003se2 has been around for a while and the Samsung i730 for about a year and there are no more bugs to fix in those devices. Sadly, the software and hardware in these products are so complicated that early adoptors are often guinea pigs and bug fixers. Something tech savvy early adoptors can live with, but something newbies would probably not want to live with.
My advice, if you want to stay with your current carrier, is to get the Samsung. It's small, it's elegantly made, it has no more patches that we know of on the horizon (and therefore no OS or user issues), and it has EV-DO, which is a very fast wireless internet connection (about the same speed as DSL) which (if they've rolled it out in your neighborhood) would give you WiFi download speeds of websites and your email. I also really like the fact that it has a keyboard because it makes it so much more convenient to send quick email and SMS replies.

[CassBH]

A very good friend of mine has a Samsung i730 on Verison and loves it. I wouldn't be so hot on getting the latest operating system. In my opinion, as a newbie, getting slightly older device is actually advantageous. WM5 has only been out for a few months and you would be hard pressed to fix things if you ended up having OS related-problems with your phone. On the other hand, Win2003se2 has been around for a while and the Samsung i730 for about a year and there are no more bugs to fix in those devices. Sadly, the software and hardware in these products are so complicated that early adoptors are often guinea pigs and bug fixers. Something tech savvy early adoptors can live with, but something newbies would probably not want to live with.
My advice, if you want to stay with your current carrier, is to get the Samsung. It's small, it's elegantly made, it has no more patches that we know of on the horizon (and therefore no OS or user issues), and it has EV-DO, which is a very fast wireless internet connection (about the same speed as DSL) which (if they've rolled it out in your neighborhood) would give you WiFi download speeds of websites and your email. I also really like the fact that it has a keyboard because it makes it so much more convenient to send quick email and SMS replies.

OK, I will definitely check that out. Does it also have the option for Graffiti writing, as that is what I have become accustomed to? What about installing software, like Pocket Informant (can't live without that program), picture viewing software, etc?

Thanks for the suggestion!

[shindullin]

A PPC "old timer", dale coffing, did a very detailed review of the samsung, including comparisons with other devices that would be helpful for you to look at if you want the specific details of the machine.
Try this link.

http://dalecoffing.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/06/first_look_sams.html

[shindullin]

BTW, yes you can enter text through the touch screen, yes you should be able to load PI, and I think there is a picture viewer pre-loaded but I'm not positive. If not, you can buy software and load that on your machine as well. It's basically a fully functional PPC (that's also a phone, web browser etc with a slide down keyboard). There are no software incompatabilities that I know of. It's actually the other way around. Because WM5 is so new, the old software has to be modified to work on the new operating system, sometimes creating compatability issues. If you buy a new Axim you'll have to make sure that any software that you load on the device has been updated to work for WM5 devices (just another peril of being an early adopter). Everything out there should work just fine for the Samsung.

[Janak Parekh]

shindullin makes excellent points. I'd just like to add a few more:

1. It is currently believed (not sure if it's official, so take it with a grain of salt) that Verizon will offer a WM5 upgraade sometime next year to those who want it.

2. The i730's three main downsides are middling battery life, which is ameliorated by Samsung/Verizon bundling both a standard and extended battery in the box, that the cell portion turns off when WiFi is turned on, and that the Bluetooth is somewhat restricted. I think there are workarounds for the latter two; the i730 forum on pdaPhoneHome.com (http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=169) is a fantastic resource on the subject (check the FAQ in particular).

Your best bet is to try holding one in your hand and see if the ergonomics work for you. Certainly, the i730 is one of the smaller Pocket PC Phones on the market.

--janak

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Does it also have the option for Graffiti writing, as that is what I have become accustomed to?

WM2003SE has four SIPs (Soft Input Panels) included as standard:

1. Keyboard
2. Block Recogniser - Microsoft's attempt at Graffiti)
3. Letter Recogniser - similar to the above but uses lower case letters as input gestures, and has three input areas instead of two.
4. Transcriber - this one's cool. Write anywhere on the screen in your standard handwriting, and it'll be (mostly!) recognised

[CassBH]

OK, I am totally confused!!!! I called T-Mobile to see if there BT phones are crippled like Verizon (i.e. will I be able to use it as more than just a BT headset). They say it is the same for them!

I need a new phone (mine died) but don't want to bother with a phone that does not have full BT capability. Also, I need a new PPC soon...I feel like I can't get any consistent answers from these darn carriers!

Cass

[Patrick Y.]

Maybe you should just get a phone edition and save the trouble of trying to coonect to internet through another phone. If you only want GPRS, Eten M600 is great for you. Sweet device! Good luck.

[CassBH]

Maybe you should just get a phone edition and save the trouble of trying to coonect to internet through another phone. If you only want GPRS, Eten M600 is great for you. Sweet device! Good luck.

OK. Are there any major disadvantages to going this route?

I will check out this device. Also, I saw online that Verizon will be coming out with the Treo 700 (Palm device with Windows 5.0 OS)...might have to wait for that beauty!!!!!

Cass

[Janak Parekh]

I will check out this device. Also, I saw online that Verizon will be coming out with the Treo 700 (Palm device with Windows 5.0 OS)...might have to wait for that beauty!!!!!
Yes, Verizon is releasing two new Pocket PC Phones within the next month or two, if the rumors and announcements are correct. Things are about to get interesting. ;)

--janak