Windows Mobile 5 Takes Two Steps Forward With Storage Cards, And Two Steps Back

[Ed Hansberry]

Windows Mobile 5 takes two steps forward in how it deals with storage cards, and it also takes two steps back. Lets deal with the positive first. As many of you know, when you install an application into RAM (WM2003SE and earlier) it would put the files in \Program Files\Application Name. When you put it on a storage card or in the storage ROM of those devices, the install directory was just off the root, so if you installed 20 apps to your storage card, you'd have 20 folders showing if you looked at your storage card. WM5 now puts all apps in \Program Files\Application Name regardless if you install to the device or to storage cards. :way to go: <br /><br />Next up, the often confusing ignore_my_docs file seems to be gone. <!> You can read more about this hidden file in an <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,2863">article I wrote</a> over three years ago.<br /><br />Now, related to that, it seems the new behavior is to ignore the My Documents folder on storage cards altogether. :? This can be nasty if you used your storage card for a lot of data in a My Documents folder. Since that folder is ignored, and since for some reason most apps can only see files one level deep, if you have any sub-folders in My Documents, files won't be seen. For example, a file in \Storage Card\My Documents\Personal is technically three levels deep. The old behavior was to see the My Documents folder as the root by applications so files in Personal were visible. The new behavior seems to be to treat the Storage Card as the root, so files in My Documents are visible, but not files in Personal. The solution? Move <b>all</b> of your document storage folders out of My Documents and up to the Storage Card. Ugh. Get rid of 20 application folders on the Storage Card and replace it with 20 document folders. Some applications bypass the Windows Mobile browse dialog box and work fine, like eReader and PocketBible. Most apps though use the WM file browser and can't see files that deep. Oh well. We are getting close. The solution is, of course, to get rid of the multiple nested folder limits. \Storage Card\My Documents\Business\2005\Recapitalization Project may look cluttered and inefficient to some, but it makes great sense for me and I should be allowed to use that kind of structure on my device just like I do on my desktop.<br /><br />The other step back deals with how the card itself, the hardware, is dealt with. Now, in fairness, I don't know if this is how the HTC devices do it, or how iMate has customized it, or if it is how WM5 itself deals with it. When my devices suspends, it seems the OS loses sight of the card. I have witnessed this with a 1GB SD card in a JasJar and a 1GB minis card in the K-Jam. The result is the application hangs or crashes. For example, coming out of suspend, PocketBible is still on the screen, but as soon as I try to change the page, the app disappears. Poof. No crash, just gone. When I reopen it, all of the browsing history is gone and I my place has been lost. I've seen it with ListPro and Daily Reader as well. This is reminiscent of how Windows Mobile 2003 did things too. Fortunately, that was largely fixed by a registry hack to change some obscure setting. Something about the EPS conduit to the Bussard Collectors or some such technospeak. That same registry key exists in WM5 but the default value is the hack value, so there is nothing to change. :( I'd be curious to see how this works with the Dell Axis X50v with the upgrade or the new X51v, or any non-iMate device. If things work great for you in this regard, let me know the size of your storage card. I had a 512MB SD card but I can't find it to test.

[MitchellO]

I too have noticed that WM5 forgets about the card after suspending the device. I have only three apps on my miniSD card (Anthelion 1 &amp; 2 Beta and the gfDoom port), and if I suspend when playing Doom, I get a file error when I turn it back on. :(

[EvilOne]

At times when I am reading an eBook with eReader (book on SD) it has lost the SD card completely and eReader freaks out. Now I just put whatever book I am reading in the device's memory.

[pocketpcadmirer]

"For example, coming out of suspend, PocketBible is still on the screen, but as soon as I try to change the page, the app disappears. Poof. No crash, just gone. "

Really astonished to see that..Wats happening Microsoft ??..so many complaints.

"God please bestow me the power to stop yammer about windows mobile 2005". Had I been a corporate person I would have stop using Windows Mobile devices.

Think of a situation, u r using plan maker..editing a important doc..u get a call on ur mobile and u turn off ur win mobile 5 PDA..wen u turn it on..happy birthday..all looks clean..nothing is there !! :twisted:

Sunny 0X :crazyeyes:

[pocketpcadmirer]

At times when I am reading an eBook with eReader (book on SD) it has lost the SD card completely and eReader freaks out. Now I just put whatever book I am reading in the device's memory.

U may be right in ur case Evilone. But about the poor people with ipaq 1950s..who have to think twice before installing something on their 'skinny' memory :grumble:

Sunny

[Darius Wey]

The other step back deals with how the card itself, the hardware, is dealt with. Now, in fairness, I don't know if this is how the HTC devices do it, or how iMate has customized it, or if it is how WM5 itself deals with it. When my devices suspends, it seems the OS loses sight of the card. I have witnessed this with a 1GB SD card in a JasJar and a 1GB minis card in the K-Jam.

Definitely not a problem affecting all Windows Mobile 5.0 devices. My M600 is able to pick up the card coming out of standby - in fact, instantaneously. 8O

[halljames]

I really hope someone sorts out the folder level problem or comes up with a registry hack for it. I too have all my documents in a nice organised folder structure and have had to move them up to the root of my Storage Card. I have done this for some programs such as PhatPad so I can see the notes, but for some others, I have left the file structure and just use file explorer to launch the relevant files.

Come Citanic, I bet you know how to do it with your Tweaks2k2 :)

[adamz]

My KJAM is in the shop, but what is the current value of:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\]
"PNPUnloadDelay"

Try changing it to:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\]
"PNPUnloadDelay"="4096"

That seems to work on a non-HTC WM5 device for me.

[pocketpcadmirer]

The other step back deals with how the card itself, the hardware, is dealt with. Now, in fairness, I don't know if this is how the HTC devices do it, or how iMate has customized it, or if it is how WM5 itself deals with it. When my devices suspends, it seems the OS loses sight of the card. I have witnessed this with a 1GB SD card in a JasJar and a 1GB minis card in the K-Jam.

Definitely not a problem affecting all Windows Mobile 5.0 devices. My M600 is able to pick up the card coming out of standby - in fact, instantaneously. 8O

Thanks for endowing me with some relieve sir

[Ed Hansberry]

My KJAM is in the shop, but what is the current value of:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\]
"PNPUnloadDelay"

Try changing it to:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\]
"PNPUnloadDelay"="4096"

That seems to work on a non-HTC WM5 device for me. It is 4096 on the JasJar and K-Jam.

[Ed Hansberry]

The other step back deals with how the card itself, the hardware, is dealt with. Now, in fairness, I don't know if this is how the HTC devices do it, or how iMate has customized it, or if it is how WM5 itself deals with it. When my devices suspends, it seems the OS loses sight of the card. I have witnessed this with a 1GB SD card in a JasJar and a 1GB minis card in the K-Jam.

Definitely not a problem affecting all Windows Mobile 5.0 devices. My M600 is able to pick up the card coming out of standby - in fact, instantaneously. 8O

That is good to hear. That isn't an HTC device is it?

[Darius Wey]

That is good to hear. That isn't an HTC device is it?

Nah, it's one of the very few non-HTC Phone Edition devices.

[KTamas]

The disappearing SD card is not only a WM5 bug IIRC. The fact is that the OS unmounts the card when you turn off the device, and mounts it back when you turn on - and here is the problem, it can not always mount it back correctly or it can not mount it back at all. Also, the applications/games/whatsoever does NOT get told by the OS that the device is turned off when you press the "off" button, nor it gets notized when you turn on the device; your app pretends that nothing happened. Rarely my SD card disappears too under WM2003SE; mostly the app i run and / or an app that reads / writes something from the SD card hangs / gives me errors (yay, tricky sentence.. :P). For example I read a book in uBook, turn off the device, turn on, and i go a few pages forward then i get blank pages. I turn off uBook, reopen it and it can not reopen my ebook at all, i have to go to the open page and reopen it. This is also a reason why I don't keep my bible on the SD card, cause Olivetree biblereader (i had problems with pocket e-sword...) does not likes bibles in SD card too. Once i got an even weirder thing: it _looked_ that the data on my SD card totally messed up (like the FAT got wrong). Fake files with fake filesizes and filenames, fake folders etc...but i did a softreset and everything came back.

[David Hettel]

Try changing the following, seems to work for me.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\]
"PNPUnloadDelay"="8192"
"PNPWaitIODelay"="8192"

Allows PocketBible to function after a power cycle for me.

David

[Clinton Fitch]

. :( I'd be curious to see how this works with the Dell Axis X50v with the upgrade or the new X51v, or any non-iMate device. If things work great for you in this regard, let me know the size of your storage card. I had a 512MB SD card but I can't find it to test.

I've experienced some problems with my SD getting "lost" after a power off but most of my problems with this have been associated with my CF card. That card, a 512MB SanDisk, is where I store my games and application data (Temporary Internet Files, etc).

[unxmully]

. :( I'd be curious to see how this works with the Dell Axis X50v with the upgrade or the new X51v, or any non-iMate device. If things work great for you in this regard, let me know the size of your storage card. I had a 512MB SD card but I can't find it to test.

I've experienced some problems with my SD getting "lost" after a power off but most of my problems with this have been associated with my CF card. That card, a 512MB SanDisk, is where I store my games and application data (Temporary Internet Files, etc).

That explains a lot. I stopped using a perfectly good, it now appears, 512meg CF card for this very reason :?

[Paragon]

I'm using a Qtek 9100. Using audible as an example I only see this behavior after a soft reset. I can turn the device off and on at will and it will still open to the correct file on the storage card. If I soft rest it looses that file, and opens with the audible welcome piece which is in main mamory. I then have to drill down to the proper file to open.

Dave

[dermite]

:( I'd be curious to see how this works with the Dell Axis X50v with the upgrade or the new X51v, or any non-iMate device.

Unfortunately, I am having the same problem with an X50v upgraded to WM 5. Personally I am using a 1 GB compact flash card, but there have been many complaints about similar probems with various card configurations over on Aximsite.

[halljames]

Has nobody got anything to say about the My Documents issue?

[Akeldama]

I noticed the exact same "lost storage card" issue on my Dell Axim X50v shortly after upgrading; it was maddening! However, after changing the registry value for PNPUnloadDelay to 4096, I haven't noticed this behavior any longer.

I usually have a 1gig SD card and a 2.2gig microdrive CF card plugged in at all times on my Axim. I noticed that after the upgrade to WM5, I could hear the microdrive click, spin-up and then power back down on its own every few minutes. It would do this while sitting suspended on my desk. Needless to say, this had a dire effect on battery life. I've done a few other registry tweaks, so I don't know if the PNPUnloadDelay fixed this issue as well, but I'm not having the microdrive problem any longer now.

- Akeldama

[Ed Hansberry]

Try changing the following, seems to work for me.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\]
"PNPUnloadDelay"="8192"
"PNPWaitIODelay"="8192"

Allows PocketBible to function after a power cycle for me.
That is the JasJar I take it? I haven't tested that yet. It does not work on the K-Jam.

[badbob001]

Is this issue that same one that causes Adobe Reader to complain about not finding the opened pdf and then sort of hang? I had my PDF file on SD and if I suspend the device and come back much later, I would get the error. I did try the registry change but it didn't help.

So I decided to move the PDF file to main memory, thinking it would fix the problem for good. Nope. Adobe still gets the error. What's the deal with that? So would this be a WM5 issue or an Adobe Reader issue?

I have a WM5 upgraded x50v.

[IpaqMan2]

Well I haven't noticed this being a problem on my PPC-6700 with regards to the device having problems with the memory card when it turns on and off. I current have a 1 gig miniSD card in there and pretty much run everything from the card.

[Sven Johannsen]

I have another symptom of the same issue. If I have Media Player running, not neccesarily playing anything, if I power down the device (K-Jam, JasJar), when I turn it back on, frequently I get a "You have inserted an SD card, would you like to scan it for media" prompt. That makes it appear the card is unmounted when I turn the device off, but re-mounted when I turn it on. I would expect any files would be closed, possibly less than kindly, when unmounting.

I get the impression that there is some period of time that lapses before unmounting, as I have turned off and right back on and not had the prompt. I haven't done any real testing of whether it is consitant, or it's 1 sec, or 2 or whatever.

[dma1965]

I simply do not understand why Pocket PC's, after all of these years, still use that infuriating file browsing/opening dialog that only decides to browse files in certain folders. It is completely obvious that this limitation does not need to exist, when programs like Pocket Informant use the tgetfile.dll to browse ALL folders and files with no problem at all. Yet, here we are 5 years later, and the same LAME file browser still exists. I just do not get why they do not fix this stuff!!!

[aroma]

I have noticed the same issue as Sven with my upgraded X50v. If Media Player is called up, and I suspend the device, when I resume the device, I get an "You have inserted a card" msg as well.

[Paragon]

I have noticed the same issue as Sven with my upgraded X50v. If Media Player is called up, and I suspend the device, when I resume the device, I get an "You have inserted a card" msg as well.

Yeah, that happens on the Wizard quite often as well.

[MitchellO]

I don't use WMP10 on my device because its just too annoying. That stupid library menu that starts searching only the device, not the storage card, and its mucks up when you standby.

Don't get me wrong, I love my K-JAM, but some of these things are really annoying. Nothing a ROM update wouldn't fix.

[Sven Johannsen]

I just do not get why they do not fix this stuff!!!
They do not think it is broken. Even on a desktop, application file dialogs have defaulted to My Documents for some time. That makes sense, If you have ever tried to help someone find a file and found they have personal files scattered all over the root, Windows folders, Program folders etc. Heaven help you if you are trying to get all their files off before rebuilding a machine for them.

I do wish they would can the subfolder limit, or at least get it better than one. Of course that would also mean the file dialog should be rewritten. Note that when opening Word, you get all the Word files, regardless of where they are. The All Folders view. That would have to change to My Documents with folders presented below that and the docs that are directly in my docs. Would be more like what a windows user is used to, but this is a PDA after all. The initial thought was probably that there wasn't going to be that much stuff stored on these outside of the PIM apps. So then it becomes a matter of expending resources on changing what folks already are comfortable with (maybe not happy with, but comfortable), or on improving other things.

[Sven Johannsen]

I have noticed the same issue as Sven with my upgraded X50v. If Media Player is called up, and I suspend the device, when I resume the device, I get an "You have inserted a card" msg as well.

Yeah, that happens on the Wizard quite often as well.

You can avoid that by using a third party task switcher to close MP when you are done with it. To bad the X doesn't actually close apps. :devilboy:

[Paragon]

I have noticed the same issue as Sven with my upgraded X50v. If Media Player is called up, and I suspend the device, when I resume the device, I get an "You have inserted a card" msg as well.

Yeah, that happens on the Wizard quite often as well.

You can avoid that by using a third party task switcher to close MP when you are done with it. To bad the X doesn't actually close apps. :devilboy:

For the first time ever, I am NOT using a third party task closer. Because of the slow response of opening appications from ROM with WM5.0 I have quit using task closers, and just leave them open....Guess what? The Wizard is working fantastic. There is no sluggishness. No crashes, and I have not run out of RAM yet. Occasionally I forget to close all and do a soft reset out of habit. Luckily that hasn't happen often since I seldom have to do a soft rest. Some of you other "old dogs" who are using WM5.0 devices should try it. You may just be pleased with the results. ;)

Dave

[MitchellO]

I agree about not closing apps on WM5. I too leave my apps open in the background, and it works great. I have over 15Mb free ROM, and over 13Mb free RAM and it works perfectly. I have up to 10 apps open and it isn't slow at all. I use PocketPlus to let me switch between apps (either using a button assigned to Alt+Tab or tap and hold the X for a menu) and it works :D :D

[Gerard]

... but this is a PDA after all. The initial thought was probably that there wasn't going to be that much stuff stored on these outside of the PIM apps.

Um. My SD card's My Documents folder currently weighs in at 395.84MB, and is home to 2864 files in 265 folders. Only 9 of those folders are visible in the My Documents view, the rest being nested to various levels. This is the result of about 5 years collecting, maintaining, sometimes deleting a whole lot of stuff which just isn't necessary to have handy on my PPCs. What's there needs to be there, so I can access it when I need it.

So explain to me again how it's only a PDA, and doesn't really need a proper file dialogue? ;)

I use both tGetFile.dll (not a lot) and gsGetFile.dll (constantly), and browse for files using any of the 4 file explorers I use daily (each has advantages the others don't share), NOT using the Word or Excel list views. If I did use those, I'd be waiting eternities for the list views to load. Been there, tried that, didn't work.

When Microsoft wakes up and realises that they're actually releasing computer OS versions with WM, not PIM OS versions, then perhaps the marketplace generally will also smell the coffee and finally take these things seriously. The 'it's only a PDA' attitude seems to infest Redmond the same way it does electronics shops. These things are taken no more seriously than MP3 recorders, though they can perform the tasks of hundreds of different dedicated devices all in one package. Isn't that the core definition of a PC?

It's dismaying, yet again, to read of the sorry state of WM5.0 so far. Seems there must be a big update coming soon, or MS is going to take some serious flak in the reviews and in public perception generally. It doesn't take a lot of bad press to doom a device...

[Darius Wey]

I don't use WMP10 on my device because its just too annoying. That stupid library menu that starts searching only the device, not the storage card, and its mucks up when you standby.

Is this happening because your storage card isn't being detected by the system, or is it because you think WMP10 just can't update the library if files are located in both main memory and external storage? If the latter, tap the Library menu and you can select your storage card. Yes, pity WMP10 doesn't just bring it all together to form one major library, so it can be a bit of an annoyance switching between My Device and your storage card.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

On long car journeys, I usually bring an external 40GB hard drive with Mp3s and Divx movies to hook up to my Loox (for my daughter and wife, not me :lol: ) - WMP is impossible to use in this case. Trying to access the music files takes so long it's not worthwhile. I've got the same problem as Gerard (though not quite as bad) - 89 folders and subfolders, 1857 files, and about 129.7 MB in the My documents folder on my SD card. That doesn't include the stuff I keep in seperate folders (like my e-books).

In many ways I've used my PDA as a laptop replacement, and for the most part it's worked quite well. But then I rarely if ever use the default apps at all, including the Office applications and file explorer.

[Gerard]

Another long-standing problem with these devices in general is the Find function, found in the bottom of the Start Menu. We all know soon enough that it too is limited to one sub-folder in the various My Documents locations, in addition to being able to search databases. But the darn thing just isn't stable! Just today I tried for the umpteenth time to find a contact name via some bit of trivia I remember putting into their Notes field... and I was able to see 4 contact's names appear for a tiny fraction of a second before the pop-up error appeared, again, saying "out of memory blah blah blah..." I've seen that error with Find so often it's actually funny that I still try at all. But how else would I discover lost items in my 708 contacts entries? I forget names like I forget last week's breakfasts, so searching the Notes field is the only option available. But this bogus memory error - I typically keep 45MB of free RAM on all my devices, 16MB on my old Casio when that was still functional - persists. I'm hoping it'll be gone with the Toshiba e800 I've got coming next week, but not holding my breath. Is it still an issue in WM5, I wonder? or has everyone else given up on Find?

[Paragon]

Is it still an issue in WM5, I wonder? or has everyone else given up on Find?

It's no longer an issue...Microsoft has given up on it too. ;) It's no longer there.

I'm not sure but I think the only way to "find" using a totally stock device is to go to settings/system/memory/find and choose all data, which seems to work quite well.

Dave

[adamz]

It's no longer an issue...Microsoft has given up on it too. ;) It's no longer there.

I'm not sure but I think the only way to "find" using a totally stock device is to go to settings/system/memory/find and choose all data, which seems to work quite well.

Dave

It's called "Search" and there's a shortcut in the Programs folder now. It's just not on the Start Menu by default anymore. Unless some OEMs have removed it from the programs folder as well.

[Paragon]

It's no longer an issue...Microsoft has given up on it too. ;) It's no longer there.

I'm not sure but I think the only way to "find" using a totally stock device is to go to settings/system/memory/find and choose all data, which seems to work quite well.

Dave

It's called "Search" and there's a shortcut in the Programs folder now. It's just not on the Start Menu by default anymore. Unless some OEMs have removed it from the programs folder as well.

Ha! Thanks Adam, I never noticed. A perfect example of only seeing what you want or expect to see. ;)

[Deslock]

Thanks for posting this article... I was thinking about giving WM5 a try, but now I'm going to stick with WM2003 until performance is improved (18 seconds to open a Word doc (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1860809,00.asp) that took only 3 with WM2003?!) and folder browsing is fixed.

&lt;rant>WTF! At this stage of the game, why haven't these things been ironed out? Is Microsoft trying to drive us all mad?&lt;/rant>

Also, FYI: the old issue that Ed mentioned about applications being installed to root can often be avoided with CABINSTL (http://www.s-k-tools.com/util.html) (assuming you are able to find the CAB files, which isn't always the case).

[k_kirk]

While talking about old pet peeves... Anyone gigured out whether the old alarm bugs are finally gone? I'm referring to the Notification db related issue which caused many of us to miss the wake up alarm in the mornings...

[Sven Johannsen]

Um. My SD card's My Documents folder currently weighs in at 395.84MB, and is home to 2864 files in 265 folders.

So explain to me again how it's only a PDA, and doesn't really need a proper file dialogue? ;)

No argument here, personaly, or likely from members of this forum. Remember the roots. You were there when PPCs had no flash slots and those that did could slide in 16M CF cards in a sleeve for $200. It wasn't that long ago. That was back when the competition didn't even have a file system. Do they yet?

Maybe MS should totally rewrite the OS every year to add new functionality, but I bet the ISVs wouldn't be too happy, nor would we, considering investment in third party software. Fortunately the OS is extensible enough that third parties can add the thing you want, and fix that thing bothering me, without forcing them on others that might like the way it is, or not care.

There is always a fine line to tread between simplicity for mass market appeal and gonzo features for the geeks.

[Sven Johannsen]

For the first time ever, I am NOT using a third party task closer. Because of the slow response of opening appications from ROM with WM5.0 I have quit using task closers, and just leave them open....Guess what? The Wizard is working fantastic.

I have actually had a few issues with mine that seemed to be attributable to excessive programs open. I've had it for a few days naked, and just loaded Magic Button on it. With this and with PocketPlus on other devices though, the first thing I set is for the close button to just minimize. Most of the time I let the OS handle stuff the way it was designed. I just like to have the option of closing one or all, without digging multiple levels deep into the control panel.

I haven't specifically tested this Phone Edition, but I can say I don't believe I've ever had a PPC close a program for me when it needed more RAM. I have had my Smartphones do that.

[Gerard]

Um, no flash slots? My Casio E-115 had a CFll slot, back in mid-2000. The Casio E-100/105 had the same long before. Back then, Casio was one of only 3 brands. Another, the HP Jornada, had a CFl slot. Only the early Compaq iPAQ - the popularity of which I never quite understood - needed a sleeve to enable CF accessory (memory, camera, modem...) use. I started using a (SD slotted) iPAQ 3835 only because a developer gave me one for testing, and having seen 2 sleeves (Compaq powered PC sleeve and Pitech Memplug dual-CF) die inexplicably, I'm still unconvinced that sleeves were ever a good idea.

In July of 2000, a 64MB Lexar CF card cost me $249, Canadian, about $190USD at the time - purchased at full retail price. That was enough to cram in a whole CD worth of tunes (Lhasa went in there first) in WMA with room for lots of Pocket Artist projects, personal and business records, 6kbps voice recordings (astonishingly clear on that old Casio!), and a regular Casio Backup file. Geek? Nah. I just used the thing for fun, mostly. The camera grabbed pictures, so I stored then edited them from the card. Hardly esoteric stuff, any of it.

I question this sort of apologia for Microsoft. No offense - I appreciate your perspective - but there are a fistful of OS basics which almost every user has disliked since 2000:

- My Documents + 1 subfolder = stupid
- the 'X' which isn't a close program icon
- connectivity dialogues designed to frustrate, not to make it easy
- Word and Excel versions which permanently lose valuable data types without warning

I'm probably forgetting a few... and it seems a couple of those are finally fixed more than 5 years later. And alarms/reminders weren't broken in 2000, but were from 2001 to 2004. Why? It just seems that Microsoft doesn't 'get' their own OS, even when it comes to the basics of PIM. So much can be done with these little boxes, but if the basics aren't rock solid (like an iPod is for music) then why should non-geeks take them seriously?

Oh dear. I'm sounding like JackAubrey. Better eat some breakfast...

[Ed Hansberry]

I was thinking about giving WM5 a try, but now I'm going to stick with WM2003 until performance is improved (18 seconds to open a Word doc (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1860809,00.asp) that took only 3 with WM2003?!) and folder browsing is fixed.
two things are going on here.
1. WM5 loads from flash ROM, not RAM so there is a performance hit.
2. Word Mobile in WM5 is really making an effort to non-destructively load the document. WM2003 didn't. it stripped out what it didn't like,so to process formatting and tables took about a half second to whack. Now Word is actually processing that info.

I would like to see her document too. my load speeds aren't nearly so bad. either it is HUGE or complex, or both. WM5 loads documents about as fast as what I see on my desktop with Word 2003. (1.5GHz laptop.)

WM5 isn't perfect, but after 3 weeks with it, I can assure you my 2003SE devices are collecting dust.

[whydidnt]

WM5 isn't perfect, but after 3 weeks with it, I can assure you my 2003SE devices are collecting dust.

Well, I can give the opposing view. I'm not at all worried about a WM5 upgrade for my i730. No way i can put up with all the new issues on my phone. Even if the one handed capabilities are greatly improved.

[PetiteFlower]

That's not an opposing view. An opposing view would be someone who used a WM5 device for several weeks and still prefers 2003.

[Ed Hansberry]

That's not an opposing view. An opposing view would be someone who used a WM5 device for several weeks and still prefers 2003.
you noticed that too huh? ;) :)

[jlp]

Um, no flash slots? My Casio E-115 had a CFll slot, back in mid-2000. The Casio E-100/105 had the same long before. Back then, Casio was one of only 3 brands. Another, the HP Jornada, had a CFl slot. Only the early Compaq iPAQ - the popularity of which I never quite understood - needed a sleeve to enable CF accessory (memory, camera, modem...) use. I started using a (SD slotted) iPAQ 3835 only because a developer gave me one for testing, and having seen 2 sleeves (Compaq powered PC sleeve and Pitech Memplug dual-CF) die inexplicably, I'm still unconvinced that sleeves were ever a good idea....

The Casio E-100, E105 and E-115 were the same devices except for RAM or ROM: E-100 had 16 MB RAM vs 32 for the E-105, both were Palm-size PCs; while the E-115 was an E-105 with PocketPC 2000 in it's ROM daughterboard (and had slightly different plastic parts colors). OTOH the ipaq was the successor to 2 lines of Palm-size PCs the Aero's (already!! made by HTC like the iPaq h3xxx, etc.). Prior Casio generations E-10/E-11 also had a CF slot.

In fact, since day one ca. 1996 on WinCE 1.0 devices, then keyboarded clamshells called H/PC always had memory card slots, PCMCIA, CF slots Intel Miniature Card slot (R.I.P. a long time ago :devilboy:) and/or proprietary (for RAM expansion) slots.

[jlp]

...
2. Word Mobile in WM5 is really making an effort to non-destructively load the document. WM2003 didn't. it stripped out what it didn't like,so to process formatting and tables took about a half second to whack. Now Word is actually processing that info.

I would like to see her document too. my load speeds aren't nearly so bad. either it is HUGE or complex, or both. WM5 loads documents about as fast as what I see on my desktop with Word 2003. (1.5GHz laptop.)

...

My pure ASCII text 28k long doc loads instantly with Tilanosoft Pocket Notepad (app AND file), while the very same file takes 8 flipping seconds to load from Pocket Word on my Axim x5 WM03. And I have ALL the reasons in the world to suspect it would be even worst under WiMp5 Word Mobile :evil:.

(just eBay your WM03 devices 8))

[Ed Hansberry]

And I have ALL the reasons in the world to suspect it would be even worst under WiMp5 Word Mobile :evil:.
Why? What reasons? I just opened a 78K .doc file and screen 1 was ready in under a second. fully flowed in 6. 13 seconds for a 760kb ASCII file. that is WAY faster than my PDA2K.

[whydidnt]

That's not an opposing view. An opposing view would be someone who used a WM5 device for several weeks and still prefers 2003.

Actually, I've been using a JasJar since they were first available via Expansys. I know from what I speak... :wink:

And yes, I prefer WM2003 by a long shot. WM5.0 offers two significant benefits, improved one-handed (or non-stylus use) and non-voitale memory (not sure it's a benefit at this point, with all the other related issues). My opinion is those are outweighed by the negatives so far. There are plenty of others out there that have used both and have the same opinion.

[Ed Hansberry]

Actually, I've been using a JasJar since they were first available via Expansys. I know from what I speak... :wink:
as an owner of the JasJar and K-jam, let me just say do not base your opinion on WM5 usability and performance on the JasJar.

[k_kirk]

In a real dilemna here. I own a Dopod 900 and thought I did not have the storage card not waking up issue. The registry details mentioned earlier on in this thread were already there for me. When I started installing applications onto the storage card I started having this problem each time the Dopd wakes up from sleep. I get messages like :

Cannot Execute \Storage Card\Program Files\NewsBreak\NewsBreak,exe

etc. I can click ok and usually they go away but still its annoying to say the least. Some applications (i.e. Pocket Quicken etc) simply freeze.

Any ideas how to cope with the situation? Install to device memory is not a good option due to the memory limitation and now with this issue installing to storage card is not feasible either.

Whats with the application removal by the way? Almost nothing I install removes gracefully. Is this something that everyone is observing?

Thanks for hearing me out. Cheers

[PetiteFlower]

Any program with a Today screen plugin pretty much ALWAYS needs to be installed into Main Memory. This was true for WM03 and earlier also. If these wakeup errors are for programs with Today screen plugins that you installed to a storage card, then you shouldn't be surprised.

As for jlp suspecting that documents will take longer to open under WM5 then WM03, I agree that this is a baseless suspicion. While my X50v does occasionally get sluggish at times, this is just a temporary thing that usually resolves itself, at most needing a soft reset. The rest of the time performance is quite zippy, and overall I find it faster at opening documents and running programs then it was under WM03. There were even a few games that I had played on my old X5 that were pretty much unplayable on the X50 under WM03, I now find them usable again.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Newsbreak doesn't have a today screen component - it's just an RSS aggregator and reader, so I doubt that's the reason.

[k_kirk]

Thanks for the lead. NewsBreak does have a Today plugin actually. I wonder if I can keep it on storage card if I disable the plugin. Will try and report.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Oooops :oops: my mistake, so it does. It should work with the plugin disabled, since I don't get an error message after a soft reset.

[k_kirk]

I disabled the NewsBreak plugin but I still get the same error message after a warm reset or wake up from suspended state. No choice but move this thing to main memory I guess...

[Jonathan1]

"For example, coming out of suspend, PocketBible is still on the screen, but as soon as I try to change the page, the app disappears. Poof. No crash, just gone. "

Really astonished to see that..Wats happening Microsoft ??..so many complaints.



Welcome to Microsoft's Cobolt. I'm 100% convinced this is why we never saw a deluge of system released or updated when MS released WM5 or 2005 or Pocket PC 2005 or whatever the bloody heck it’s called this time around. I think OEM’s are waiting for MS to get their collective **** together. :?

Initially I was pissed that HP didn't release WM2005 for the 4700. Not so anymore. Frankly unless there is massive improvement in a SP by next spring I prob won't go near it. I think this is the first Pocket PC OS that I really haven’t given a crap about ever.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

I think this is the first Pocket PC updated that I really haven’t given a crap about ever.

Hear, hear.

[billpool]

I think this is the first Pocket PC updated that I really haven’t given a crap about ever.

Hear, hear.

:devilboy:

Don't ya just love how Lil Billy and the M$ outfit gets all of this realtime beta testing?
The shipping tape from HP is still intact on my "upgrade" CD..... :lol:

[alese]

Maybe this is possible sollution for the unmounting problem.

Just leave the PNPUnloadDelay as it is and change the other key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\PNPWaitIODelay

from default (on Universal it's 4096) to 1.

I'm not 100% sure yet but for now it's working for me.

[pcause]

From the Microsoft site:

SYMPTOMS
If a Microsoft Windows Mobile 2003-based device is powered off while it is playing a media file from a Compact Flash (CF) or an Secure Digital (SD) memory card, when the device is restarted, you may receive one of the following warning messages:
Cannot play any of the items in this playlist.
Cannot play the file. The file is either corrupted or the player does not support the format you are trying to play.
Back to the top

STATUS
Microsoft has confirmed that this is a bug in the Microsoft products that are listed in the "Applies to" section.
Back to the top

So, MS did know of this in WM2003. Now, one would *assume* they'd have a fix in WM2005, but....

[vidiyar]

regarding ed's post on storage cards. i just bought a dell axim x51v and a i mb cf storage card and the card disappears after sleep mode. only way i can get it back is if i remove the battery and reinstall it. have to admit didn't try a soft reset. any hacks for this would be most welcome. :(

[terpkristin]

My KJAM is in the shop, but what is the current value of:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\]
"PNPUnloadDelay"

Try changing it to:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\]
"PNPUnloadDelay"="4096"

That seems to work on a non-HTC WM5 device for me.

I'm new to the PPC scene. How does one do this?
I'm on an x51v, if it makes a difference.
Thanks,
/tk

[Nurhisham Hussein]

You need a registry editor. Read this article for more info:

http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/menneisyys/UltimateRoundupOfRegistryEditors.asp

[terpkristin]

Thank you very much!!!

/tk

[Edgar_]

Maybe this is possible sollution for the unmounting problem.

Just leave the PNPUnloadDelay as it is and change the other key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\PNPWaitIODelay

from default (on Universal it's 4096) to 1.

I'm not 100% sure yet but for now it's working for me.

I have an HX4700 WM2003SE. I have issue with my SD card much the same - MSReader losing its place, games hanging, the card falling off the earth after powerdown/sleep

I have no PNPIODelay key at all and my UnloadDelay key is set to 1500.

Does this hack only work for WM5 or are you using Wm03SE?

[Nurhisham Hussein]

I don't have it either Edgar (Loox720 with WM2003SE), so I guess it's WM5 only.