No Windows Mobile 5 Upgrade For the FS Loox 720?

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5142">http://www.firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5142</a><br /><br />Despite some screenshots of the FS Loox 720 with Windows Mobile 5 on it in some online manual, it sees the Loox may not ever see a Windows Mobile 5 update. :| A user at FirstLoox.org contacted support about this and was told "Due to functionality issues there will not be a LOOX 720 upgrade to Windows Mobile 5." Sounds like the same situation where HP was passing out Windows Mobile 2003SE upgrades like candy at developer conferences for the iPAQ 2215 and then never delivered the goods when WM2003 actually shipped.<br /><br />There is additional information in <a href="http://www.fujitsu-siemens.cz/newsletter/content/inf_withdrawal_WM5_PL7xx_EN.pdf">this PDF file</a> on the Fijitsu Siemens site. Specifically <i>"Due to functional issues caused by existing hardware and the new Microsoft Windows Mobile 5.0 operating system we have decided not to offer the Windows Mobile 5.0 Upgrade for Pocket LOOX 718/720. This decision does also affect the planned Pocket LOOX 750/760 which will be withdrawn from the roadmap"</i>

[Duncan]

Yes - the upgrade has been abandoned (very recently). That has also scuppered the plans for a 700 series update - the Loox 750/760 (which I understand were never to be the formal 'next generation' Loox but rather an X50v/X51v update).

The Loox C550 is just ONE part of FSCs future plans for the range.

[Darius Wey]

With HP's delay, Asus' lack of response, and Fujitsu-Siemens' withdrawal, I'm guessing a lot of consumers worldwide aren't in the best of all moods. At least Dell have managed to keep to their promise, but with some users experiencing problems with the upgrade, nobody's really happy. :(

[Duncan]

I can't say I'm disappointed. I've felt for a while that a WM 5.0 upgrade would effectively be a downgrade for current devices. I'm not sure that anything I've read of the Axim upgrade (or even the X51v or HTC Universal for that matter) has changed my mind on that.

In the meantime my Loox 720 remains fast (indeed - faster than a WM 5.0 device), high spec'ed and compatible with everything.

I'm not sure I'm terribly happy about the trend to a loss of CF card slots. This makes four new/upcoming high end PPCs with no CF slot (Acer n310/311, Loox C550, HTC Universal and the new Sharp model). This is a personal thing mind - I know that it was inevitable that the CF slots would disappear sooner rather than later.

[iant54]

Given that CF cards have the higher capacities earlier, then the demise of CF slots is a pain - although I guess that with the presence of the USB host, one can get around it with the use of a portable hard drive.

[hiatus]

that's suck, recently i was thinking to change to LOOX 720 from Dell X50v because of the 128MB ram and USB host. LOOX 720 is a very good PPC and it would be very sad if they don't offer upgrade for this high end device.

[powder2000]

that's suck

:rotfl: I haven't heard that in a while, I think my dad used to say it, thanks.

[huangzhinong]

If WM5 is not as good as WM2003se, Why don't you guys care? Just because of an extra option?

[Menneisyys]

With HP's delay, Asus' lack of response, and Fujitsu-Siemens' withdrawal, I'm guessing a lot of consumers worldwide aren't in the best of all moods. At least Dell have managed to keep to their promise, but with some users experiencing problems with the upgrade, nobody's really happy. :(

Yup, these hx4700 users (http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=121006) are also discussing pretty similar stuff.

I've found the following in there:

"We are wittnessing the devolution (or de-evolution) of an operating system. I think this is another first for M$.

The Pocket PC OS started out in its infancy as Windows CE, essentially by immitating the palm OS, when palm devices were basically computerized address books. But windows CE aspired to being something more. Gradually Windows CE increased its sophistication until it approached the functionality of a full sized PC OS in many ways. Today, Windows Mobile can do pretty damn near anything you can do on a desktop.

Then the cell phone arrived. (Play ominous music here) Everyone needs a cell phone. Everyone wants a cell phone. Not everyone wants or needs a pocket PC. Microsoft wants its OS to be inside something that everyone wants and needs. There's only one problem. The average cell phone user is not a computer geek. The average cell phone user has the IQ of a turnip. If you put all these fancy applications and functions into his phone, you are going to overwhelm poor Joe Average cell phone user. What can Microsoft do? Somehow its OS has to be inside the device that everyone on the planet wants and needs... wait a contact manager! If we strip down the OS until there's nothing left but a fancy contact manager, and maybe an email program, Joe Average has everthing he wants!

So all we have to do is quietly devolve the OS. Eventually we can tranform Windows mobile into an incredibly effective electronic address book that sits on every damn cell phone on the planet. Problem solved. Progress in the MS corporate world."

[KTamas]

I think there is the second party at Dell right now... The first one was when HP postponed the 4700 update :P

[Duncan]

I think there is the second party at Dell right now... The first one was when HP postponed the 4700 update :P

I think any Dell personnel reading the Aximsite forums right now, and seeing how badly the X50v WM 5.0 upgrade is going, are unlikely to be throwing a party anytime soon.

When it comes to WM 5 no company is showering itself with glory so far...! :(

[KTamas]

I think there is the second party at Dell right now... The first one was when HP postponed the 4700 update :P

I think any Dell personnel reading the Aximsite forums right now, and seeing how badly the X50v WM 5.0 upgrade is going, are unlikely to be throwing a party anytime soon.

When it comes to WM 5 no company is showering itself with glory so far...! :(
IIRC, Dell has already shipped their WM5 upgrade.
Edit:Yep, they had, at least started (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,44117)

[Duncan]

IIRC, Dell has already shipped their WM5 upgrade.
Edit:Yep, they had, at least started (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,44117)

That wasn't my point. Go here: http://www.aximsite.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=109 and check out the threads: 'WM5 Downgrade Poll' and 'The WM5 Upgrade Death Poll'. Getting the upgrade shipped - and it being a good idea or well made - not, it seems, the same thing...!

[KTamas]

IIRC, Dell has already shipped their WM5 upgrade.
Edit:Yep, they had, at least started (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,44117)

That wasn't my point. Go here: http://www.aximsite.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=109 and check out the threads: 'WM5 Downgrade Poll' and 'The WM5 Upgrade Death Poll'. Getting the upgrade shipped - and it being a good idea or well made - not, it seems, the same thing...!
Thanks for the correction. Wow, that is a, umm, nice topic. I have actually went back to 2003SE just a few days ago, got tired of WM5 bugs:
1) ActiveSync 4. That thing is a bug itself, slow, connection problems, it slows down the device when syncing, slow syncing, more connection problems, etc.
2) Overall system speed. WM5 is just sluggish.
3) SW incompatibilities
and other smaller but annoying issues. Yes you could say that it was cause that the WM5 for Blueangel is a leaked beta one, but it had WM5's general flaws too. I guess i'll wait for WM5SE....

[jlp]

I've said it time and time again from the beginning folks.

From the announcements, WM5 was stringged with fallacies, plain lies, backward steps and incompatibilities galore:
Fallacies:
- install apps in ROM (and temp files) does no harm to ROM limited life/is not slower (ROM is up to 10x slower than RAM)
Plain lies:
- RAM doesn't need to be maintained when device is off since apps/data are in ROM (if RAM is off then you loose unsaved data and need to restart every app when device in turned on again)
Backward steps:
- you lose the full menu and shortcut icons bar
- therefore you loose precious screen real estate because developpers add another toolbar
- multiple shortcut key presses to find right option (cell phone users gotta luvit :twisted:)
Incompatibilities: much too long to even start :evil:!!

[Patrick Y.]

I think there is the second party at Dell right now... The first one was when HP postponed the 4700 update :P

I think any Dell personnel reading the Aximsite forums right now, and seeing how badly the X50v WM 5.0 upgrade is going, are unlikely to be throwing a party anytime soon.

When it comes to WM 5 no company is showering itself with glory so far...! :(

Well, the upgrade is not so bad for x50v. There are quite a lot of "perfect upgrade" thread on aximsite. Though, I have to admit that I decided to hold off my upgrade after reading about the problems. I just hope dell fix them soon. It's no wonder that so FEW vendors offer upgrade for their machine.

In the beginning, everyone were so critical about asus not releasing upgrade for a730w, which was my favorite device. After comparing the criticisms from this thread about Loox, I have to say everyone is a whole lot harsher toward Asus. How can everyone here be so biased?:cry: (sorry)

:?

[Duncan]

Well, the upgrade is not so bad for x50v. There are quite a lot of "perfect upgrade" thread on aximsite. Though, I have to admit that I decided to hold off my upgrade after reading about the problems. I just hope dell fix them soon. It's no wonder that so FEW vendors offer upgrade for their machine.

When a poll is held that shows one third of people deciding to roll back their upgrade and a nother third choosing not to go ahead with it - while many of the third who say they are sticking with the upgrade are still full of complaints - I'd say it is pretty bad...!

In the beginning, everyone were so critical about asus not releasing upgrade for a730w, which was my favorite device. After comparing the criticisms from this thread about Loox, I have to say everyone is a whole lot harsher toward Asus. How can everyone here be so biased?:cry: (sorry)

:?

I'd say it has a lot to do with the way that Asus simply refuse to say *anything* about an upgrade. They haven't even said no - just remained silent. Any threads about the upgrade on their support forums were being deleted and requests for information ignored.

[Patrick Y.]

When a poll is held that shows one third of people deciding to roll back their upgrade and a nother third choosing not to go ahead with it - while many of the third who say they are sticking with the upgrade are still full of complaints - I'd say it is pretty bad...!

That's why I'm holding back my upgrade until Dell can fix some major problems.....



I'd say it has a lot to do with the way that Asus simply refuse to say *anything* about an upgrade. They haven't even said no - just remained silent. Any threads about the upgrade on their support forums were being deleted and requests for information ignored.


I believe that the situation would be a lot worse if they just say "no". Most people, include me, like to view matters with the perspective we want than taking a "no" for an answer.

Instead of saying "yes" just to keep things quiet and give people false hope, keeping silent is the most ideal choice. My guess is that Fujisu too already experience problem with the upgrade. After all, 720 and 730W has similar specification that's not ideal for WM 5 at all. If both company have plan for the upgrade, they would stick 128MB of ROM in the device like x50v and 4700. Though, Asus just admit their failure in the beginning.....

[ADBrown]

I can't say I'm disappointed. I've felt for a while that a WM 5.0 upgrade would effectively be a downgrade for current devices. I'm not sure that anything I've read of the Axim upgrade (or even the X51v or HTC Universal for that matter) has changed my mind on that.

In the meantime my Loox 720 remains fast (indeed - faster than a WM 5.0 device)

I sincerely doubt that. My Axim X51v running WM5 felt so much faster than my X50v that it wasn't even funny. Now that my X51v is temporarily down for repairs, I find returning to the X50v to be difficult.

I know that it was inevitable that the CF slots would disappear sooner rather than later.

Don't mourn CF slots yet. They were saying the same thing three years ago when I bought my first Axim. "They included a CF slot? Why? CF is dead."

[Ed Hansberry]

Plain lies:
- RAM doesn't need to be maintained when device is off since apps/data are in ROM (if RAM is off then you loose unsaved data and need to restart every app when device in turned on again)
Other points well taken but this is incorrect. WM5 keeps battery power to RAM when off. When the battery totally loses power though, WM 5 does a soft reset when plugged in. Earlier operating systems do a hard reset.

[Duncan]

I sincerely doubt that. My Axim X51v running WM5 felt so much faster than my X50v that it wasn't even funny. Now that my X51v is temporarily down for repairs, I find returning to the X50v to be difficult.

I've held and used an Axim X51v and XDA Exec - they both felt slow - even sluggish - compared to my fully loaded Loox 720. I can also go by the many posts on Aximsite where people complain that upgraded X50v PPCs are slower to a frustrating level. I don't doubt your experience - just that it is the norm.

It isn't an 'anti-Axim' thing - it's a 'I'm not sure if I'm ready to abandon the advantages of WM2003 SE yet - even for one of the next generation Looxes or any other PPC

Don't mourn CF slots yet. They were saying the same thing three years ago when I bought my first Axim. "They included a CF slot? Why? CF is dead."

I'm one of the great defenders of dual slot machines with CF slots - and I agree - the death of CF slots has been predicted for a while without it happening. This is the reality though - gradually CF slots have become a high-end device only feature - and now a number of high end devices have become announced/released without CF slots. People want a) compact devices; and b) full features - the first thing to go, to enable either of these, is always going to be the CF slot.

Do I like this? No. But you and I are in a minority now - and swiming against the tide.

Will their be any more high end PPCs with CF slots? Maybe (though I would not be prepared to put money on it) - but they will be vanilla devices like the current HP, Dell and FSC cream of the crop and those who want the vanilla devices are fewer and fewer.