Would you carry two devices after all ...?

[SteveHoward999]

Right now I have a large-screen VGA PDA, the Toshiba E830. I love the screen size and clarity. I also have a small Nokia phone, a 6100. It's a neat little phone but not very smart.

I find myself lusting breifly after some of the new PDA/phone devices but the best phones are the smaller pnes, so they have (compared to the Toshiba) terrible small screens. So I know I would not want to use one of them as a PDA, but I would be pretty happy to have it as a phone.

What about the HTC Universal? Very expensive, very cool, not a great phone, and the only PDA advantage it has over my Toshiba is that it has a built-in keyboard... I think I could be swayed if it were just a little better ... faster chip, more RAM, wider phone options (e.g. quad band, EDGE). But I would not want to use it as a phone.


So I find myself thinking ... what if I had a small-ish smartphone *and* a PDA (actually, add to that my Dell desktop replacement laptop too). Now I should be able to do phone things easily, and the most simple PDA things, but do some better things with the bigger PDA, like reading books, messing about with spreadsheets, watching movies etc. The only real hassle would be synchronisation of data, but that is not insurmountable.

Anyone else thinking similar, or am I just crazy?

[kaitanium]

dont worry man im in the same boat. ive been dreaming of my dell x50v as a phone. but i figure it cheaper doing dual devices. get the smallest possible cell phone and just suck it up and bring a pda with you. sigh all these things that have now become "necessities"

[caubeck]

Just a question from someone who has never used a PDA with a built-in phone.

I have had many mobile phones. With plenty of use, they tend to give up the ghost after a year or two. I've had one PDA which I've used for two years and it works like the day I unpacked it, never a problem, barely a scratch.

Don't phone-enabled PDAs wear out faster than normal PDAs? If either part has problems I expect you would abandon both at once. Doesn't usage of either quickly run the battery down in both?

These are serious questions, asked with a view to dabble in the near future. I've always been sceptical about convergence but now I'm planning on an upgrade and just maybe I'm beginning to see the light...

[Sven Johannsen]

I don't think you are nuts. In fact I lean in that same direction. I have a Dell X50v, a decent sized PPC, and both the SMT5600 and the MPX220. I'm not sure which of the Smartphones I like better, and I'm not even sure I like either more than my T610, but that's a whole nuther story.

[Patrick Y.]

Isn't there a way to make turn Pocket PC into a phone with some card thingy??

[kaitanium]

yep, theres a cf card by audiovox and another manufacturer (same cards different brands) that takes gsm sim cards, but that thing is useless and not as convenient. id pick a 2 device solution over that anyday

[PetiteFlower]

You wouldn't be able to give it the phone version of the OS either which goes a long way to making the phone features usable.

[JamesM]

I've wrestled with the same dilemma. I love my hx4700, but it is a bit big to carry everywhere. When I wanted to go out with just a phone (SE T610), I missed my PPC. After looking at both my wallet and the MS smartphone offerings, I decided to buy the cheapest smartphone I could find; a Treo 600 from T-Mobile. I now have my email and PIM info always with me. The downsides are: Palm OS (adequate for the task, barely), low res, and no bluetooth. Positives are the form factor - love the 5 way rocker, and the keyboard for email/SMS.

I also found I still use my PPC just as much, but not with my phone.

Perfect solution? Far from it, but the search goes on...

[ctmagnus]

Personally, I carry an iPaq 5550 (I find it surprisingly small without a case) and a SMT 5600. I also have a Tecra M4, but that's a little large to take with me most days, even if it does offer nearly 8.5 x 11" of writing room.

So no, it is not out of hand to carry two devices, imo.

[Phillip Dyson]

I've been using a Phone Edition for several months now and I have to say that I really like it.

That being said, I have found that I frequently miss the gorgeous screen of my e830. I'm trying to find a way to work it back into my routine. So far I'm very successful using it for GPS in the car.

Up until a month ago, I was planning on buying another Phone Edition (and probably still will) but now I've found my self still looking at some of the stand-alone models.

Keeping my smartphone and PDA up to date was major pain. Mostly because I use Intellisync at work for the catefory filtering. I think that 4smartphone.net will help to alleviate my struggle.

Could I go back to a 2 device model? Or juggle 3 three? Hmmm...

[Patrick Y.]

yep, theres a cf card by audiovox and another manufacturer (same cards different brands) that takes gsm sim cards, but that thing is useless and not as convenient. id pick a 2 device solution over that anyday

What do you mean by and useless and not as convenient? (just curious) :wink:

[SteveHoward999]

Hmmm - interesting. I think it is safe to say that most of the people who come here and have something to say are advanced, tecchie or simply avid users of this sort of mobile technology.

If the device and OS manufacturers were getting it right then I would expect to see a majority of responses saying "I don't know what you mean Steve, one device is enough for me".

So I see this as a reasonable measure that we still have quite a long way to go. I suspect that the HTC universal would satisfy people like me who want the larger size and higher resulution of a VGA screen, but only if the phone part were that little bit better, and provided th price were more reasonable.

I look forward to a couple of years from now when we have just that little bit more maturity of devices and form-factors so that it does indeed become possible to carry only one device... perhaps that thing Microsoft demoed recently that can boot to PocketPC and Windows is the way we will need to go to get all we could want, provided tiny is not what we really want :-)

[Stephen Beesley]

I am another who has often been tempted by the features of some of the Phone/PDA combos out there - in particular I really like the look of the Universal. However, in large part, this is because the phone devices seem to be the ones offering the most innovative features at the moment.

I cannot ever actually imagine using something like the Universal as my main phone. It would undoubtably be nice to have the always on conncectivity - but given the cost of data plans (at least here in Australia)it is not a feature I could see myself using much.

In the end I always come back to the idea of a dedicated PDA with a bigish screen that I use pretty much as a laptop replacement (everything from games and music on my commute to a bit of web surfing at the local wifi equipped cafe and drafting/editing written work with the aid of an accessory keyboard) plus a small fairly simple mobile (currently an SE T610). Believe it or not there are actually times I do not want to take my PDA with me!

[Menneisyys]

yep, theres a cf card by audiovox and another manufacturer (same cards different brands) that takes gsm sim cards, but that thing is useless and not as convenient. id pick a 2 device solution over that anyday

What do you mean by and useless and not as convenient? (just curious) :wink:

It only works with a wired headset (http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=779104) etc. I would never use it.

[dickiedove]

Guys,

Have you thought about just using bluetooth headsets! You can keep your PPC phone in your pocket and answer calls with your tiny bluetooth headset instead of carrying a seperate phone. (I know you can't access your contacts without going into your pocket)

I have a HW6515. It is absolutely awesome. with the QWERTY keyboard and the built in GPS, you just can't go wrong. On top of which I have a 1GB SD card and a 1GB SD card on board so I can have loads of MP3, GPS and Ebooks on board and with me as well as two countries worth of Maps. (Lifedrives suck)

:mrgreen:

[dickiedove]

Guys,

Have you thought about just using bluetooth headsets! You can keep your PPC phone in your pocket and answer calls with your tiny bluetooth headset instead of carrying a seperate phone. (I know you can't access your contacts without going into your pocket)

I have a HW6515. It is absolutely awesome. with the QWERTY keyboard and the built in GPS, you just can't go wrong. On top of which I have a 1GB SD card and a 1GB SD card on board so I can have loads of MP3, GPS and Ebooks on board and with me as well as two countries worth of Maps. (Lifedrives suck)

:mrgreen:

[SteveHoward999]

Guys,

Have you thought about just using bluetooth headsets!



Actually, yes.

That's definitely what I'd use with a machine like the Universal. But there's somthing else that stops me going this route that I didn't mention.

There are times where I cannot or do not want to carry my PDA, other times I cannot or don't want to carry my phone. This is probably the overriding factor that keeps me using two separate devices.

[SteveHoward999]

Guys,

Have you thought about just using bluetooth headsets!



Actually, yes.

That's definitely what I'd use with a machine like the Universal. But there's somthing else that stops me going this route that I didn't mention.

There are times where I cannot or do not want to carry my PDA, other times I cannot or don't want to carry my phone. This is probably the overriding factor that keeps me using two separate devices.

[dickiedove]

Its the rock and hard place I suppose. Boiling down to screen real estate. I still feel that PPC PE has a good chance with the I-Mate which is tiny. Even my Hw6515 is no bigger really than the standard blackberry unit and brings so many devices into one. But there will always be the problem of where you can wear the thing comfortably particularly during the summer and robustness is always a factor! :roll:

[schwuk]

I've recently got an O2 XDA Exec (HTC Universal), and now I would never go back to separate devices. I always used to carry my phone and PDA everywhere with me, so carrying the Exec is no big deal to me. I do generally use it with a Bluetooth headset, mainly for convenience (I like to walk when I'm talking), but it's a perfectly adequate phone.

[Stephen Beesley]

...

There are times where I cannot or do not want to carry my PDA, other times I cannot or don't want to carry my phone. This is probably the overriding factor that keeps me using two separate devices.

That is probably the overriding factor for me as well.

If I do one day go down the converged device path then I would probably get myself a very cheap simple phone to use when I did not want to bring my super duper do everything device with me (and maybe risk damaging/losing it...)

[msafi]

i think the buyer, who is undecided, should first consider what he really needs. (1) does he need a phone more than a pda? (2) does he need a pda more than a phone? or (3) does he need both to perform well?

for category one, which is phone more than pda, i suggest one goes with any Symbian phone other than UIQ. Nokia 60 Series are stable and reliable phones with extensive pda funcionality and a fair collection of 3rd party software. nokia is also a no-bull company. they have great OEM accessories that are smoothly compatible with their devices, provided the documentation, and implemented all the bluetooth stacks. The specs that they advertise are usually true. For example, when they advertise a 2mp camera, you can expect a decent 2mp camera. That’s not the case with some pocket-pcs, especially the unbranded htc products.

for category two, which is a pda more than phone and the category which i'm in, i suggest one chooses either pocket-pc or palm. when it comes to convergance, they both are equally bad. i owned a treo 650 for 3-months and now i own an htc wizard. with the exception of the HTC Universal, and the newly announced toshiba vga pocketpc phone, converged devices lack in specs and cost more. for example, my 700-dollars htc wizard is unacceptably slow. on occasions it takes up to 10 seconds to open the messaging application. the main reasons that i'm in this category rather than the first category are, first, i need the versatility of the touch-screen, and, second, i want to be using a popular platform.

I think most of the users in this forum are in the third category, which is needing both to perform well. The choice here is easy. Buy the best pda, and a little convenient cell-phone. However, there is the hassle of having your contacts in multiple locations and having to carry two gadgets. I used to own a Jornada 720, the little laptop-like handheld-pc pda, in combination with the nokia 6800, the little messaging phone with the foldable keyboard. This combination worked well because the Jornada 720 gave me usability no cell-phone could give.

In conclusion, if you’re not a pda geek and need a reliable phone, I highly recommend that you go with the nokia 60 series, and check out the new E models. However, if you need the touchscreen in your phone and want to draw on the collective experience of the popular pocket-pc community, get a pocket-pc. If you need everything, or you need a functionality that no converged device could give, and you don’t mind the hassle of having two separate devices, get two (or more) devices.

[Phillip Dyson]

the newly announced toshiba vga pocketpc phone



Whats this? Can you provide a link to this announcement. I'd like to know more about it.

[msafi]

this:
http://cellphones.engadget.com/entry/1234000723064261/

but it's huge.

[Phillip Dyson]

this:
http://cellphones.engadget.com/entry/1234000723064261/

but it's huge.

1" thick!

Plus, the article says its from Sharp.

[msafi]

did i say toshiba? what a blunder! my bad. it's a sharp.

[angler]

I think most of the users in this forum are in the third category, which is needing both to perform well. The choice here is easy. Buy the best pda, and a little convenient cell-phone....In conclusion, if you’re not a pda geek and need a reliable phone, I highly recommend that you go with the nokia 60 series, and check out the new E models.

I totally agreed with what msafi said. I like a pda with best screen, reliable performance and kept all my PIM data, and I already have a Nokia 6680 phone to connect outside. I just can't accept the speed sacrifice of pda phone which giving up performance in order to preserve more battery for daily usage of the device. Unless one day some new kind of battery other than lithium one is invented can preserve plenty power source for the handheld device to run hundred of hours just like current cell phone, the pda phone cannot have much improvement for its processing speed.

[ctmagnus]

I look forward to a couple of years from now when we have just that little bit more maturity of devices and form-factors so that it does indeed become possible to carry only one device

I concur.

I've been using a PDA and a separate phone for several years now, and at this point I'm seriously considering switching to a Phone Edition device. It'll likely be several months or more, if not a year, before I switch, but the device I've currently got my eye on is the HTC Prophet/O2 XDA Neo/i-mate JAMin. The only problem I can see with this device is the fact that it has only a 200MHz OMAP processor.

[Phillip Dyson]

I've since gone back to 2 devices, which makes me feel good from the standpoint of purchase cycle. My toshiba and smt5600 are getting more mileage.

That being said, I'm still looking out for the right convergence device. Preferably one that exposes the bluetooth DUN profile. The Treo 700w intrigues me, but its exclusive to Verizon right now.

I do enjoy my Toshiba again and with 4smartphone.net I don't have problems keeping my PDA and Smartphone in sync.

[yardcat]

I do enjoy my Toshiba again and with 4smartphone.net I don't have problems keeping my PDA and Smartphone in sync.

I would like to use a cheaper Smartphone (T-Mo SDA) as my modem with a PPC device. This quote has me wondering if I'm not understanding something. You can't sync some smartphones with a PPC without the assistance of a third party service? Which leads me to another question, Would this lack of syncing ability, prevent me, somehow, from being able to direct hard-wire via USB ports these two devices?

I basically just want to know if I can tether these two devices both thru bluetooth and hard wire tethering. This really shows my ignorance of how to set up "hard-wire" tethering between a phone and a PPC (syncing probably doesn't matter!).

I have never really found or gotten a direct answer for this hard wire question. Menneisyys had previously pointed me to one of his Blog Articles, which was the bluetooth connection tutorial, but I couldn't find anything on a hard wire connections.

[Menneisyys]

I do enjoy my Toshiba again and with 4smartphone.net I don't have problems keeping my PDA and Smartphone in sync.

I would like to use a cheaper Smartphone (T-Mo SDA) as my modem with a PPC device. This quote has me wondering if I'm not understanding something. You can't sync some smartphones with a PPC without the assistance of a third party service? Which leads me to another question, Would this lack of syncing ability, prevent me, somehow, from being able to direct hard-wire via USB ports these two devices?

I basically just want to know if I can tether these two devices both thru bluetooth and hard wire tethering. This really shows my ignorance of how to set up "hard-wire" tethering between a phone and a PPC (syncing probably doesn't matter!).

I have never really found or gotten a direct answer for this hard wire question. Menneisyys had previously pointed me to one of his Blog Articles, which was the bluetooth connection tutorial, but I couldn't find anything on a hard wire connections.

You can't connect the two phones via a hardwired connection - if you meant USB (serial connection is different).

Also, it's not possible to directly synchronize the PIM databases between the two devices - there're only SMS/address book/call list synchornizer apps for the Pocket PC with a separate (Smart)phone (see my article at http://pocketpcmag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17757 for the complete list of their abilities if interested), not full synchronizers (tasks, calendar and stuff).

There, however, may be some/ full compliance between the WinCE databases. That is, you may be able to directly export a, say, Contact/Task/Calendar database on yoru Smartphone and directly import it on your Pocket PC (and vice versa). I don't know if it'd work - I don't know the WinCE DB structure the Smartphone OS uses. I bet it isn't different from that of the "real" Windows Mobile OS, the latter being used for ages without much changes.

[pocketpcadmirer]

but the device I've currently got my eye on is the HTC Prophet/O2 XDA Neo/i-mate JAMin. The only problem I can see with this device is the fact that it has only a 200MHz OMAP processor.

I would suggest you to use the device in personal. Will you be able to adapt yourself to 2.8" screen. When I switched from iPAQ 2215>>P910i>>O2 mini(magician), I still could not adapt myself to the small screen(I read lot of programming stuff). Now, I bought a HTC blue angel(O2 S) because of 3.5" screen,wi-fi and keyboard. I gave an eye to HTC wizard(mini S) too, but, it was too thick. Jamin was OK, but, same small screen size. Universal suited my needs,but, was very expensive. Lastly, I settled for O2 S. Now, I dont have to suffer with 'new' OS bugs and it is a real beauty. You may get it for around $550-700 these days(depending on your location)

Sunny

[Phillip Dyson]

I do enjoy my Toshiba again and with 4smartphone.net I don't have problems keeping my PDA and Smartphone in sync.

You can't sync some smartphones with a PPC without the assistance of a third party service?


To my knowledge there is no way to directly PIM sync to Windows Mobile devices. Whether hardwired or bluetooth.

4smartphone.net is a hosted exchange service. I push my PIM data up to the service from one device, then pull it back down on the other device.

[Frootloop]

there are places that i would be happy to take my relatively inexpensive nokia to and leave my ipaq at home.

after all, a 'regular' phone is far cheeper to replace than 'most' pdas.

just imagine dropping your cheap cellphone in the sea and what an inconvenience it would be. then think how much more of an problem it would be if it had been your $400+ converged PPC phone! 8O

[Menneisyys]

The only problem I can see with this device is the fact that it has only a 200MHz OMAP processor.

It's much faster than many think. I've been testing a lot of multiplayer games with it (so that I can update my multiplayer game roundup (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/menneisyys/102005MPPPCGames.asp)); none of them was unplayable.

And, if a given app doesn't like the speed / you do need some additional power, you can use the free OmapClock to further overclock it. I've tested OmapClock quite thoroughly (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=518&more=1) and found it excellent.

[Menneisyys]

there are places that i would be happy to take my relatively inexpensive nokia to and leave my ipaq at home.

after all, a 'regular' phone is far cheeper to replace than 'most' pdas.

just imagine dropping your cheap cellphone in the sea and what an inconvenience it would be. then think how much more of an problem it would be if it had been your $400+ converged PPC phone! 8O

Yup, that is a valid point

Another point to consider: none of the Pocket PC's and only few MS Smartphones offer not even adequate conversation recording capabilities (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=513&more=1). In thirs respect, a, say, $70 S-E t610 is orders of magnitude better than a $1000 Universal or a $500 Wizard.

[bowtiejeff]

The original question was whether or not we would carry two devices or not. I have been carrying two devices for a very long time and have been on the "verge" of buying a combination device since they started coming out a few yers ago. (Not to mention that I now have to carry a Motorola i760 for work! So three devices now.)

The thing that kept me holding off was my good old Sony Clie NX70V and Sony T637 phone. (Before that, my "pair' was a Sony Clie T615 and a Sony T237 phone.) When I would look at the latest and greatest convergence devices and I would always pull out my good old NX and compare them. The Clie had everything a boy could want (camera, large display, fast processor, lan card) and the phone was rock-solid, good reception, bluetooth, added on laser pointer, etc) so I could never bring myself to buy a new device, but as always kept reading the forums and reviews and hoping.

Well, I finally did it. A couple of weeks ago, I compared my poor old Clie [with it's rotating screen about to fall off, missing a stylus for about a year, not had a screen protector for about 3 years] and my poor old T637 [scratched, dinged, barely able to read the display in sunlight] to the new Cingular 8125 and I left with one from the store. I was able to buy the 8125 outright without affecting my contract and simply slip my sim from the Sony phone to the 8125. I guess if I were to go somewhere where the 8125 could truly get damaged, I could simply charge up my good old T637 and move the sim. Nah, I probably wouldn't do that!

I do miss my Sony's, but so far, I love my new HTC. So now I still carry two devices including the i670. Love to hear any comments or questions... Jeff