Palm vs IPAQ vs ?? [Archive] - Thoughts Media Forums

Krumlov

10-21-2005, 11:35 PM

Lookin for a PDA. Mandatory qualities are a large screen because I want to put a number of PDF documents (reference info) from work that I can refer to when needed. Thus memory expansion is needed. I also want it to be a remote for my home theatre system so IR range is V. important.

What is of mediocre importance, an ability to plug in an external power source. A user replaceable battery. Voice recording. Playback of MP3s.

What is not important, what operating system it is running, how fast it is (I am sure that it is a much of a muchness). Wireless connectivity (although most seem to have it). Digital cameras. Keyboards

So it is boiling down from what I can see from the websites (Palm site good, HP BAD!!) is a shootout between the Palm TX (Tungsten T5) and the hx2190 both are $499 (in Australia). I do have some questions. Can you turn off the wireless services easily on these things (I want to be able to use it on a plane)? HP specifically markets their PDAs as remote controls, what is the Palm like? Are there any other PDAs I should be looking at?

Thoughts guys?

kaitanium

10-22-2005, 12:02 AM

hp does have remote capabilites but of course they can do more
and yes you can turn wirelessly off easily
check out dell's x51v. i say dell and hp are the biggest players. palm well lets just say their devices have improved but ive been there done that and once i touched a ppc, i never looked back

Krumlov

10-22-2005, 12:31 AM

The X51v does look good although a little ore expensive than I was looking for. Do the Pocket PC based PDAs have the ability to swap into landscape mode like the Palm??

Darius Wey

10-22-2005, 03:26 AM

The X51v does look good although a little ore expensive than I was looking for. Do the Pocket PC based PDAs have the ability to swap into landscape mode like the Palm??

Yes, it can. Both Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition and Windows Mobile 5.0 support it natively.

In order of preference, I'd look at the Dell Axim X51/X51v, HP iPAQ hx2000 series, and maybe the HP iPAQ hx4700. You're not going to find some of the other European models readily available in Australia. And Palm? Yeah, I reckon their efforts are now a matter of too little, too late. I've had a few friends purchase Palm devices against my advice over the past year, and only in the past month have they come complaining to me saying they regret not listening. :lol:

Patrick Y.

10-22-2005, 05:29 AM

The X51v does look good although a little ore expensive than I was looking for. Do the Pocket PC based PDAs have the ability to swap into landscape mode like the Palm??

x51v is a little expensive because of the its high resolution screen, 624mhz processor, etc. Basically, it's a high-end device. Though, Dell US always offers LOTS of amazing deals. Last week, there is a promotion that let people get x51v for only $305. Though, x51v is a lot cheaper than other Pocket pC that offers similar features, such as Loox and 4700.

I really prefer WM to palm. WM is not as stable as Palm, but it offers far more features and functions than palm, which is unable to keep up with the current technology.

The software part of different devices with the same operating system are quite similar even though OEMs incoporate some of their own softwares in their device.

For more information:

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ppc.htm

WM 2003/SE:
http://www.brighthand.com/article/Brighthand_Review_Windows_Mobile_SE?site=PPC

WM 5
http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/articles/wm2005-magneto-en.shtml
http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2668

Krumlov

10-22-2005, 05:40 AM

I am hearing you guys but I found a guy on eBay you can sell me a Tungsten T5 for $365AUD delivered. I cannot see any PPC PDAs with the features of the T5 for any where near the price. I just went to a shop to have a play on the T5 and I think it will do the job for me, PDF viewing, MP3s, general organisation, photo viewing. For $100AUD more I can get a WIFI SD card although I don't really need it.

Is there anything in the PPC market that can compete featurewise with a $365AUD T5??

jgalindo

10-22-2005, 06:15 AM

Don't get a Palm

Krumlov

10-22-2005, 06:23 AM

I know this is a Pocket PC forum but I still can't see how the PPC can be THAT much better. Off the web the closest machine in cost to that T5 I was talking about is a HP hx2110 for $440AUD (not including delivery). Now the hx2110 has a 1/4 of the memory, a smaller screen and a slower processor. For the equivalent Palm specs the price is amost doubled. I am struggling to see how it is worth it?

OneAngryDwarf

10-22-2005, 09:19 AM

Has nobody thought to mention that if he wants to use it to control his home theater system he needs a consumer grade IR... Dell doesn't offer that and I don't think Palm does either. The iPaq Mobile Media Companion does and so does the 2215 though thats a bit dated. I don't know who else offers this. I hate saying iPaq. Your question was like asking who would you rather trust... Lucifer or Satan. Palm has a terrible Operating System that just doesn't do close to what it should and looks to be dead soon while HP is making more and more bad and overpriced iPaq's. Fact is though you say Dell's are more expensive but they are far cheaper than comparable iPaqs and Palms (tough to compare the LifeDrive though).
If only you had a Windows Media Center then any Windows Mobile/Pocket PC would work for you. You could use a Wi-Fi connection to control the WinMCE using one of several remote control apps for it.

Krumlov

10-23-2005, 12:38 AM

Thanks for the info so far. What is so bad about the Palm OS? I currently have a Palm Vx and I find it does what I need it to. I had a play on the T5 yesterday at a shop and it seems to be a similar style. I mst be clueless but the applications start, they do what they are supposed to and as someone has previously mentioned the Palm OS is very stable?

So what is wrong with the Palm OS? Thanks for enlightening me!

Prime Steak

10-23-2005, 04:29 AM

hiatus

10-23-2005, 08:42 AM

I had used Palm OS for years and now i am with my X50v, i would say my pocket pc is much more stable than my Palm, I know it all depends on the program you install...

Anyways, when you are talking about pdf documents, i cannot really suggest you anything rather than a VGA screen (640x480). This is why i changed to pocket pc. Now i can't go back coz I can see a full page of pdf very clearly in a VGA screen (you do need to use hack for it (tweak2k2, ozvga or SE_VGA) and you just cannot do that in a QVGA 240x320 and I dont think you would be able to do that in the T5 at 320 x 480

get the X50v brand new on ebay, you will save some money and pretty much the cheapest VGA pocket pc I could think of (apart from the e800 and e830)

Krumlov

10-23-2005, 01:35 PM

Yep I think that is the only thing that is possible issing from the T5 and that is the VGA screen. BUT why do you need a hack to see a full PDF page?? Is it just so you can shrink the PDF page to that resolution?

Given all of this though I am keeping an eye on eBay but I don't know if I will be able to match the T5 price. You never know though...

Patrick Y.

10-24-2005, 01:00 AM

Has nobody thought to mention that if he wants to use it to control his home theater system he needs a consumer grade IR... Dell doesn't offer that and I don't think Palm does either.

You don't neccessarily need consumer IR to control theater system and TV. While consumer IR has longer range, the one on x50v is as good as the remote control of the TV at my house. i just need to install a program and everything is good to go. :wink:

Patrick Y.

10-24-2005, 01:18 AM

So what is wrong with the Palm OS? Thanks for enlightening me!

It's (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=43860) dead. (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=41356)

One of the serious disadvantage is that is can't multitask. On a Pocket PC, you can listen to music, browse the internet, edit document, etc. at the same time and switch between programs with ease. In my opinion, pocket PC's interface is also more user-friendly. Another thing is that pocket PC can accomplish much more than Palm and it communicates better with PCs.

Anyway, I believe that Pocket PC is more powerful than Palm.

Fishie

10-24-2005, 07:05 AM

Urm, why has no one mentioned this yet?

On a palm you need to convert a PDF and you lose most of its qualities, on a PPC the pocket PDF opens the files natively, no need for conversion whatsoever and they look just like they do on a desktop.

Cybrid

10-25-2005, 07:49 PM

So what is wrong with the Palm OS? Thanks for enlightening me!

It's (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=43860) dead. (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=41356)Errr. Yes and no. It's gotten complicated.

More specifically, the problem is pre-emptive vs co-operative multi-task.

PPC's are pre-emptive multi task meaning that the OS is designed to be master and will minimize an application if the user goes to another. You can leave it running. This requires the big RAM and heavy processor.

Palm's are co-operative, the OS gives up control to the application and the application will need to be closed to run another unless it is specifically designed to minimize. Most aren't. In fairness, apps "auto save" and you would not notice that it was closed and re-opened. This should be faster but isn't. I'm not enough of a palm user to decode why.

You were willing to pay in excess of 300AUD for a Palm? I'd go PPC at that point. Simply put. Buy more PC than you need since you might need more PC later. Plan for expansion later as your needs change.

Krumlov

10-26-2005, 11:53 AM

Cybrid

10-26-2005, 05:33 PM

You were willing to pay in excess of 300AUD for a Palm? I'd go PPC at that point.
The trouble is from my research $300AUD is not the start point for PPC. I simply cannot find a PPC for $380 that has 256MB RAM, 416MhZ Processor, 320x480 screen, bluetooth, among other features ala the Tungsten T5.
I have been watching eBay for a cheap x50v but no luck so far. Is there something else out there that I am unaware of that can compete with the T5 for features and price?[b]256 ROM.[/] No. hardware wise, 256 ROM is comparable to the X51v.
An HP 29xx series would do....dual slot, WiFi,BT. You could add more memory through SD/CF.

Overall I've stated my main beef with Palm. My viewpoint might be a little dated but due to Palm's co-operative style, apps and hardware were greatly customized. It meant if you buy a T5....only T3,Tx series stuff will work....apps for Clie (same OS) would have issues.
While apps for PPC's rarely posted cross platform issues.
In this scenario the multitask issues are visible;
Copy and paste documentation from several websites.
PPC: Enable Wifi, Wait 20-30 sec, url, copy, word, paste,url, copy, paste,url, copy, paste.
Palm:Enable Wifi, Wait 15 sec, url, copy, word, paste,Enable Wifi, Wait 15 sec, url, copy, word, paste,Enable Wifi, Wait 15 sec, url, copy, word, paste. It just seemed longer and troublesome.

Cybrid

10-26-2005, 08:57 PM

The trouble is from my research $300AUD is not the start point for PPC. AUD is almost on par to Canadian $ and I'm finding that ebay is probably your best bet.
Caution! Stephen Beesley was seriously conned on ebay and if you smell something funny. Avoid. Also go with sellers with high feedback...higher than 100 and look into the auction from those feedback.

A quick search yields
http://search.ebay.ca/search/search.dll?sofocus=pf&sbrftog=1&fstype=1&catref=C6&from=R10&satitle=x50v&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&a14=10254&a12=26560&a35=1782&a10244=22656&gcs=7&pfid=2096&reqtype=1&pfmode=1&alist=a14%2Ca10255%2Ca12%2Ca35%2Ca10244&pf_query=x50v&pf=Show+Items&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sadis=200&fpos=v3n2s5&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&price=1&saprclo=100&saprchi=385

mll1013

10-27-2005, 09:04 PM

...palm well lets just say their devices have improved but ive been there done that and once i touched a ppc, i never looked back

Really? I just tried to convert to PPC, because I'm afraid that the PalmOS won't be around much longer. My experience has been attrocious. After enjoying the clean, streamlined appearance and usage model of Palm, I cannot get used to the bloat and bugs of PPC.

For example:

Why do I have less visibility in my PPC apps (fewer filenames, memos, tasks, etc.), even though the resolution is better than my Palm?

Why is my Palm smart enough to show me the exact start and end times of my calendar appointments in the day view, when the PPC always shows hour boundaries? Who has appointments that always start and end right on the hour?

Why can't I find a way to categorize my memos on my PPC, while every app in my Palm has a consistent category pull-down menu in the upper-right corner?

Why do I find myslef having to soft reset my PPC much more often than my Palm? (Actually, I know the answer to this one... it's because the PPC OS was developed by MS!) :?

And the alarm clock app? Totally unreliable on my PPC. In fact, alarms won't even go off unless the unit is powered on??? How could an OS like that have ever been released? Does MS have monkeys doing their software validation? On the other hand, I've never missed an alarm on my Palm.

Sorry for the lengthy rant, but I'm just plain unhappy with my PPC software. On the other hand, I'm completely unhappy with my Palm hardware... *sigh* what's a PDA user to do? :(

mll1013

10-27-2005, 09:12 PM

Thanks for the info so far. What is so bad about the Palm OS?

There is nothing inherently bad about the PalmOS. I think it has a much cleaner interface. But the writing seems to be on the wall for the PalmOS... it's market share has diminished tremendously, and looks to be all but obsolete in a few years.

Why is this happening? My thoughts are twofold: 1) While Palm's software may be superior, the hardware is plain aweful... I've burned through four Palms in as many years, all of them developing screen issues. (BTW, the only Palm that is still working is my old IIIxe that I gave to my wife when I outgrew it.) 2) The Microsoft marketing juggernaut is killing yet another superior technology.

Cybrid

10-27-2005, 10:44 PM

Really? I just tried to convert to PPC, because I'm afraid that the PalmOS won't be around much longer. My experience has been attrocious. After enjoying the clean, streamlined appearance and usage model of Palm, I cannot get used to the bloat and bugs of PPC. Change is hard, keep trying. remember "bloat"=hidden functionality. You could be suprised at what the simplest PPC could do. Bugs are present in Palm too.
How many quiet Palm forums do you know wherein not one was asking for help. Be honest. If you look at my posts I do not denigrate Palm for being anything but what it is. A great simple OS that I eventually outgrew.

Why do I have less visibility in my PPC apps (fewer filenames, memos, tasks, etc.), even though the resolution is better than my Palm?
I don't know but "why was it that Palm file explorer never went ....deeper?" Different.

Why is my Palm smart enough to show me the exact start and end times of my calendar appointments in the day view, when the PPC always shows hour boundaries? Who has appointments that always start and end right on the hour?Most people say..." I'll see you at 11:00, or how about 10:30?" Take your time and explore...Remember it is a new enviroment and it takes some time to get your bearings.

Why can't I find a way to categorize my memos on my PPC, while every app in my Palm has a consistent category pull-down menu in the upper-right corner?Try the top left folders icon?

Why do I find myslef having to soft reset my PPC much more often than my Palm? (Actually, I know the answer to this one... it's because the PPC OS was developed by MS!) :?Except if you had a life drive :D PPC's are multi taskers, multi task enviroments are likelier to have difficulty.
Just like in engineering, the simpler the machine...the less part to breakdown and maintain. Perhaps listing the device with an explanation of what is going on in the forum might get someone to help.

And the alarm clock app? Totally unreliable on my PPC. In fact, alarms won't even go off unless the unit is powered on??? How could an OS like that have ever been released? Does MS have monkeys doing their software validation? On the other hand, I've never missed an alarm on my Palm. There are some PPC's with alarm problems especially 2002 OS ones. Look for any upgrades? ROM updates?

Sorry for the lengthy rant, but I'm just plain unhappy with my PPC software. On the other hand, I'm completely unhappy with my Palm hardware... *sigh* what's a PDA user to do? :( I agree with you there, Palm was very innovative in hardware and had many firsts but the never got it right and blew their lead away. PPC's have some incredible capabilities that require a very robust OS but that results in..."bloat"
Live your life and do what is best for you. I did not come to convert nor complain, simply offer an opinion worth exactly what you pay for it.
See my avatar?

mll1013

10-28-2005, 02:30 AM

burtcom

10-28-2005, 03:35 PM

Nope -- you're not doing anything wrong. Microsoft, in a case of thinking they know what's best for the user, limited the standard file selector box to work exactly as you described. Apparantly they didn't want users to lose files in the heirarchial file system :?

Which brings up the question -- is this still the case in Windows Mobile 5??

Cybrid

10-28-2005, 08:43 PM

Cybrid:

Very well explained. I appreciate your candid point of view, and I don't view it as critical at all... you expressed your point of view, and actually inspired me to keep trying.

However, you alluded to the hierarchical file system as a strength of PPC... 100% agreed, which is why I'd like to categorize my memos hierarchically. But it seems that when I'm in the "Notes" app, that it can only see the level directly under "My Documents" If I traverse down into the Memos folder, I can't see the topic folders that I created underneath.

For example, I see the following in File Explorer:

* My Documents[list:3896649b0e]o Memos[list:3896649b0e]- Business
- Personal
- Etc...[/list:u:3896649b0e][/list:u:3896649b0e]

I only see the following in the Notes App:

* My Documents[list:3896649b0e] oMemos[/list:u:3896649b0e]

Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks, again, for the encouragment!
Nope. Burtcom is right. It does seem simplified....never noticed that. Not being too much of a notes taker. I'd never seen that. Learnt something new. Brain hurts. :frusty:
A possible work-around off the top of my head
keep them in the memo's folder
rename them with the subfolder in the name
* My Documents
[list:3896649b0e] oMemos
[list:3896649b0e]
-biz1
-biz2
-biz3
-misc1
-misc2
-pers1
-pers2[/list:u:3896649b0e][/list:u:3896649b0e]

PetiteFlower

10-29-2005, 05:33 AM

I generally use Pocket Word instead of Notes for most things, and it supports folders pretty well.

mll1013

11-01-2005, 10:24 PM

I generally use Pocket Word instead of Notes for most things, and it supports folders pretty well.

You know... that might not be a bad idea! Thanks for the suggestion... I'll give it a try. :D

(Now, if I can get a good night rest confident that my alarm will actually go off correctly.) :?

PetiteFlower

11-02-2005, 03:48 AM

Heh, for that I depend on my $10 clock radio, and it does me well. If I'm in a pinch, I use my cell phone, but that's rare. For all the other things that my PPC does for me so well (calender, games, mapping, music, ebooks, documents, banking...) I don't really feel like I've been cheated if one feature doesn't work right. Besides, maybe it will work in WM5 :)