MSN Messenger for Windows Mobile? Zzzz...

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=2679' target='_blank'>http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=2679</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20051007-Messenger.jpg" /><br /><br />Let's rant on a topic that's very close to my heart (and has been for a number of years): MSN Messenger for Windows Mobile is anything but great. It's a plain old client supporting multiplayer notepad, and nothing else. There is zero support for emoticons, buddy icons, file transfers and all the other bells and whistles of the MSN Messenger service. Back when Windows Mobile 5.0 was first announced, I was hoping that the inclusion of the Pocket MSN client would bring about an improvement in MSN Messenger, but sadly, it didn't. :( And it's a real eye-opener when there are many third-party mobile messaging applications out there that do a better job.<br /><br />Arne Hess seems to agree, and he's posted some very interesting thoughts over at <a href="http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=2679">the::unwired</a>. And now it's up to you. Whatever's on your mind, let it be known.

[alabij]

Hmmm... And MS wonders why Google is taking over the industry. :)
Ever since PPC 2002. I've been in awe at Pocket Messenger. Apart from the security update there has never been any significant update to PMessenger.
It's the ugliest, plainest and most featureless application I have ever seen. Which is odd, especially since Windows MOBILE is all about connectivity.
Microsoft is looking a whole lot like HP to me. They have no focus, scope or direction. They are confused. Sure they have a company goal but they definitely don't know how to get there.

If MS had pushed Pocket Media Player and given free upgrades to WMP10 I doubt the Ipod would be as popular as it is now. I don't have the numbers but I'm sure that there are more devices with Windows CE out there than there are Ipods.

Now Apple is rumoured to be releasing a video player. Every pocket pc plays videos but yet it has never been positioned as a media player.

BACK ON TOPIC..

Yes! I'm dissapointed with MS not improving PMessenger. However from my rant above it is not suprising.

Oh! and that app Pocket MSN for $19.99 is a joke. I just don't find it funny :(

[ricksfiona]

That's why I use Trillian and Agile and willing to pay for both...

[Jason Lee]

I hate smiles... Why the He!! do i need a buddie icon or what ever they are called on my pocket pc? Oh i know, to waste more space. Those smiles and icons all have to be stored locally. (well maybe not the buddy one but it will have to be downloaded.)

I could use voice/video support. But smilies? come on... People used smiles just fine for years before there were goofy little yellow faces blinking and giggling at them... I use messenger on my pocket pc for communication. I don't need ausie smillies holding a mug o'suds to communicate. I refuse to install MSN messenger on my computer. Windows messenger does what anyone needs to communicate right now. I do not want my mobile messenger infested with this crap!

Sure update it with Usefull features.. I love MS portrait. Voice and video would be great. I don't use file transfer in messenger either. That is what email if for. Oh and HTML email should be a federal offence. Email should be nothing but plain text. Just imagine how much harder it would be to send annoying spam, spyware or viruese...

:P look i typed a smiley..

[Franc_Furter]

Pocket MSN is free in WM05 and Messaging (Pocket Outlook) now supports Hotmail as well. I am in noway trying to defend MS, but have you seen how much RAM MSN messenger 7.0 uses: 11Mb while it sleeps in your system tray.

Please don't let MS bloat... oops! upgrade Messenger. They can't seem to do anything with out managing to use up all free memory

[Tierran]

I agree with JL...why do I want smilies and buddy icons on my pocket pc screen? There's jsut enough screen real estate for chatting, I don't need it further cluttered up by a static picture that serves absolutely no purpose. And the memory on our PDAs is at a premium...there's no need to waste it with smilies when a majority of the users out there don't even use the program in the first place.

And Voice/Video support? Yeah, maybe when our devices are a lot faster than they are now. I've tried voice services on my PPC before. It's a gimick at best. I don't even want to think about video.

File transfer would be alright, but again, we're talking about a program that is used by a small minority of people.

[Franc_Furter]

Tierran Said
I've tried voice services on my PPC before. It's a gimick at best.

I use Skype for PPC regualarily and I must admit the quality is awesome and it has now started to rival my mobile phone for talk time. Even to land lines at 2 Euro Cents per minute the rate beats my phone and the quality is fantastic.

[wiz]

Just FYI on the MDA Pro (HTC Universal) T-Mobile actually managed to take out MSN altogether. The only way to use instant messaging is either to purchase (on-time fee) Pocket MSN or to use any of the other alternatives such as Agile.

(Ironically, Pocket MSN is included for free on the other Universal incarnation, the I-Mate Jasjar, so this msut have been a T-Mobile decision)

[Ripper014]

Totally agree with most of the polsters here... why are you complaining about a free application... and why do you want something that has more bloat requiring more resources... Lets leave very well alone and not wake the fat bloated bear... things are fine the way they are. As long as it works... and is light... why do we want to mess with it?

This is supposed to be a mobile product... lets keep all the applications lean and mean... speed is everything... I DO NOT LIKE SEEING THE LITTLE WAIT SYMBOL... What is the point if I am going to have to wait 10-15 seconds to get a contact... etc...

[Jason Dunn]

I guess I'll be in the minority here: I want to see a more feature-rich version of MSN Messenger. I want the same experience that I get on the desktop. I want:

1) Chat history that would sync up with my desktop chat history
2) File transfer
3) Buddy icons
4) Smileys

Microsoft is all about platforms, and MSN Messenger should have the same experience on the desktop as on the mobile device. I'm not asking for full screen "winks" or some of the other new 7.x features, but smileys are part of how I communicate in MSN Messenger, and having to assemble them on the SIP is a pain.

One of the primary reasons I don't use MSN Messenger much on my devices is because the client is so lame. It doesn't DO anything beyond the very basic chat.

[aroma]

All I want is a LCS client for Windows Mobile! I know they are supposed to be working on one... I just can't belive it's taking this long to develop a mobile client for LCS. Seems like this would be a naturual extension of LCS usage.

[alabij]

I hate smiles... Why the He!! do i need a buddie icon or what ever they are called on my pocket pc? Oh i know, to waste more space. Those smiles and icons all have to be stored locally. ....................................................................... Oh and HTML email should be a federal offence. Email should be nothing but plain text. Just imagine how much harder it would be to send annoying spam, spyware or viruese...

:P look i typed a smiley..

Are you being serious or sarcastic? :?

[Jason Lee]

I hate smiles... Why the He!! do i need a buddie icon or what ever they are called on my pocket pc? Oh i know, to waste more space. Those smiles and icons all have to be stored locally. ....................................................................... Oh and HTML email should be a federal offence. Email should be nothing but plain text. Just imagine how much harder it would be to send annoying spam, spyware or viruese...

:P look i typed a smiley..

Are you being serious or sarcastic? :?

very serious. Sorry if it came out a bit strong, have a wonderful headache today. hehe.
I use npop on my desktop and pocket pc both. mostly so i don't have to see html or richtext email. I am really temped at times to try to setup a rule that will bounce any email i recieve that is not in plain text format back to the sender telling them that i will only except text emails. It is one of my bigger pet peeves.
IM should be the same way. I watched some one using MSN messenger the other day. It is horrible.. there is crap everywhere, pictures and smilies and this stupid full screened crap what was making farting noises....
IM should be a little window where text instantly goes in and comes out. I should not be able to (or need to) fart at some one online... Please people. I know MSN messenger is build for the 12 year old crowd and that's what sells.. or at least makes them down load your messagner.

sorry, it's just something that really bothers me. It is a total waste of memory and bandwidth. I hate it when something usefull gets commercialized.

[saru83]

1) Chat history that would sync up with my desktop chat history
2) File transfer
3) Buddy icons
4) Smileys
Sorry guys, i have to agree with Jason, he is right, we r not all same in this Wild world, so basically my theory is "If u dont like it LEAVE IT", believe me, it works....

[nGage]

I think it is interesting to conside the "why" of it, because they are clearly capable of delivering all the bells and whistles if they should so choose. I also think that whatever the "why" of it is, that it is the same "why" for all the Pocket Office Apps. I have been amazed at how long they have been updating the platform without (any significant) update to the Pocket Office Apps, while 3rd parties (eg SoftMaker) have had very rich and capable alternatives. Clearly the "why" of it all has nothing to do with platform limitations or any Microsoft limitations, so there must be some other reason (Marketing? Cannibalisation of Windows/Office revenuse? etc.), don't you think?

Just my $0.02 worth

[Jason Dunn]

Clearly the "why" of it all has nothing to do with platform limitations or any Microsoft limitations, so there must be some other reason (Marketing? Cannibalisation of Windows/Office revenuse? etc.), don't you think?

Having just come back from the MVP Summit...well, all I can say is that you'd be surprised how often Microsoft's lack of developer resources plays into the limitations around things like this.

[Phillip Dyson]

I'd like to think (but am probably wrong) that sometimes the intent is to keep things lean.

One of the strong points about WM is that its multi-tasking. If apps get so big that I can only use one at a time, then that defeats the purpose. Especially if that one app causes my PDA Phone to reset when a call comes in. 8O

There are a few things that should be added to some of the built in apps for usability. Like a real file chooser in the PocketOffice apps.

[SOAP BOX] Like real category filtering when synchronizing. [/SOAP BOX]

Softmaker's PlanMaker is truly a full-featured spreasheet application, but WHOA MOMMA, its huge and slow to start up. I know because I use it all the time.

To make a long post short, anything that I don't have a choice about should be lean yet functional. I'll choose and install the monsters myself.

[alabij]

I have to admit; this thread has shocked me. I thought everyone would be in favour of more features in MSN messenger. It seemed so obvious...I guess it isn't.

However, a lot of reasons have been given but I'd like to state that the one that I disagree with the most is 'hardware' limitations.

I agree that it is all about protecting its desktop franchise.
Consider that apple released a crappy ROKR phone with a 100 capacity. Obviously the ipod is doing so well that Apple is scared to innovate anywhere else.

The same goes for MS. I think they are scared to commit to the PPC/PE. I don't blame them though. The future of the PPC/PE isn't even guaranteed. Thats why they changed the name to Windows Mobile. In the end there will be a very thin line between a smartphone and a PPCPE.

[Janak Parekh]

I have to admit; this thread has shocked me. I thought everyone would be in favour of more features in MSN messenger. It seemed so obvious...I guess it isn't.
...
I agree that it is all about protecting its desktop franchise.
I really doubt this. MS has big plans for their mobile device plans, and the Treo announcement plus the Messaging and Feature Pack strongly suggest that MS believes that the Mobile Device platform plays nicely to their strengths. Not once during my communications with Microsoft have I heard fears of cannibalizing their desktop platforms.

Consider that apple released a crappy ROKR phone with a 100 capacity. Obviously the ipod is doing so well that Apple is scared to innovate anywhere else.
That's different. You're talking about two portable devices (the ROKR vs the iPod) competing with each other.

I, for one, would like to see a better MSN Messenger experience. I don't need all the flash, but there are lots of ways to make the client better. How about ways to make chatting easier, needing less characters typed, for instance?

The future of the PPC/PE isn't even guaranteed.
Unfortunately I can't say much due to my NDA, but as far as I could tell from the Summit, Microsoft is very much committed to both ends of the Windows Mobile platform. WM5 represents the beginning of a convergence between the two -- if anything, that should enable them to keep both platforms for a long time. The Treo deal is also a touch screen device, so I see MS pushing that pretty hard. :) Most CDMA WM devices in the US are Pocket PC Phones right now, in fact. There's only one CDMA Smartphone, it's old, and there are very few CDMA Smartphones in the pipeline. If anything, the lack of Smartphones in the market is my complaint.

--janak

[alabij]

Hmmm.... Putting the WM5 OS on the Treo isn't a sign of MS seriousness. I think the pofitability of the deal is in the air. I don't think anyone can tell for sure whether it's going to work out well.

Microsoft is only doing what it does best. Feeding off others.

Obviously Jason has more insight than me on this issueBut like most people in this forum(I think), I switched from a Palm (Kyocera QCP 63??) in 2000 to the XDA via T-Mobile. I've been through five PPC/PE's and I truly believe that the PPC can be better with current technology.

[zybler]

What can I say is stop being anti-technology. Technology can only go forward. That's the only way it can go. Sure, HTML e-mails brings more spam, we can made better filter.Ok, so messenger 7.0 now is a bloat and used up a lot of memory, to counter this we can add more RAM, or lobby Microsoft to optimize the program if the program is not currently using resources efficient enough, which is ridiculous (to me). What I'm trying to say is, sure, better technology will sometimes create more problems than it solves. I'm not saying it's not a possibility, but the truth is, better technology can also be use to counter this flaws, if you will. We can't scrap HTML e-mail as a feature or expect ppl not to use it. As long as a technology is invented, it will be used, whether you like it or not. I don't know about you guys, but in my case, instead of bouncing an otherwise legit HTML e-mail, i would use a spam filter (so that it less likely to be a spam) or to throw away any malicious code in it (so that i'm protected from unknown viruses).. the technology is available now and it's not difficult to use. Though there rooms for improvement.

There's a chinese saying that goes whenever there is trouble, there will always be a silver lining, i.e. opportunities for programmer to come up with better tech to solve exiting flaws. I can't imagine what the world will be if there are no new tech coming and no new problems introduced. I would be very dissapointed to see that happening. To give a short example, tech makes it easy to capture videos, but it's horror to keep track of all these.. try look for a video that contains the face of your sister playing with a car toy inside a folder with 1000000 videos with random, meaningless file names. The solution? Computer vision &amp; Machine learning. It's tough, but it's possible.

Coming back to the topic, I do agree with JL that at this point it's not practical for pmesseneger to have all the features of its desktop counter part. But it can have some more. Maybe fixed size smileys (no downloading of smileys, all will be fixed and come with the OS), or file transfer or what ever. It could use some improvement, if not all. Evolution takes time, yes, but I think it's time for us to have a little more?

But whatever the out come, please, welcomes technology, embraced them. If they are introducing new problems (which it almost always does) then I'm sure it will be fixed sooner or later. The great thing about technology is that is everything is possible. I say let the possibilities come.

[alabij]

No one seems to have mentioned that messenger doesn't allow font resizing. That's my biggest gripe at the moment. I don't really have 20/20 vision so I understand I'm alone on this one

[carrigaline]

MSN Messenger is an excellent program on the desktop. Its video conversation function even goes full screen and the quality is way ahead of the competition...............google talk is all wind and is very basic.......but because it has that name in the title it is assumed to be the best thing ever by the lazy mass media....the BBC website was gushing about it when it came out yet did no comparison to the clean UI and advanced functionality in MSN or even Yahoo Messenger. I am no MSN Messenger fanboy.....but it does work very well and is very reliable.

One thing I would like to see in WM Messenger is the use of ink writing - you can do it on the tablet....why not on WM Messenger?

I think the integration of VOIP into WM Messenger and on the desktop version can't be that far off.....I expect a lot from MSN Messenger over the next year.

BTW.....MSN Search is ahead of Google for search relevancy in the UK since their update in search technology in June/July.......interesting progress....

[Janak Parekh]

Microsoft is only doing what it does best. Feeding off others.
That's your opinion. I quite disagree.

I've been through five PPC/PE's and I truly believe that the PPC can be better with current technology.
On this, I agree. Still, looking back at my (even older) Qualcomm pdQ, I'm glad to see the progress on Pocket PC Phones.

No one seems to have mentioned that messenger doesn't allow font resizing.
Well, everyone has different concerns. That's why you have an account - you can post about this omission, which I hadn't looked for in the past.

--janak

[Perry Reed]

I've seen some good ideas for Messenger enhancements here. Particularly inking, which as was mentioned, is available on the Tablet PC platform (and is very useful) and would be very nice on the PPC.

I'd also like file transfers and you'd think that with devices like the HTC Universal coming out with a second camera presumably just for video chatting, they'd add that capability to Messenger. Video+voice chatting on the desktop app is fantastic and I wish more of my friends had webcams so we could use it.

[hotweiss]

The most obvious feature that is missing is ink. MSN has supported ink in desktop versions since version 6. Now come on, ink is naturally the ideal input method on a PDA, so why hasn't Microsoft added it?

[Phillip Dyson]

The most obvious feature that is missing is ink. MSN has supported ink in desktop versions since version 6. Now come on, ink is naturally the ideal input method on a PDA, so why hasn't Microsoft added it?

I'm not familiar with Ink, but wouldn't Transcriber provide the same capability?

[yingjie]

I doubt so. I think Ink refers to the ability to send hand drawn diagrams as messages.

[Perry Reed]

I doubt so. I think Ink refers to the ability to send hand drawn diagrams as messages.

Exactly. Using ink means the person on the other end of the chat sees your actual handwriting, and there is no handwriting recognition converting it to text.

Writing in ink is much faster than writing for handwriting recognition and is pretty handy in Messenger on Tablet PCs.

[bnycastro]

I barely use Messenger as most my contacts are on Yahoo Messenger. I've only around 50 Messenger contacts [half of which are on Yahoo also]. Messenger on PPC is ok for me as it is simple and clean.