Sony Release New Memory Stick Format: Memory Stick Micro (M2)

[Jonathon Watkins]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.dpreview.com/news/0509/05093001ms_micro.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.dpreview.com/news/0509/0...001ms_micro.asp</a><br /><br /></div><i>". . . Sony Corporation today announced the development of the “Memory Stick Micro” format, an ultra-small IC recording media designed to meet the growing storage needs of highly compact, multifunctional mobile phones. . . . “Memory Stick Micro” media is approximately one-quarter the size of “Memory Stick PRO Duo” media, yet only about 1.2 mm thick. . . . Dr. Eli Harari . . . of SanDisk Corporation, said “The Memory Stick PRO format co-developed with Sony has become a highly successful product line for us due to its popularity [sic] with a wide range [sic] of consumer electronic products such as digital cameras and videogame consoles."</i> <br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/ms_micro.gif" /> <br /><br />Firstly – the Facts. The M2 is 15×12.5×1.2 mm and can theoretically run at 160Mbs and support up to 32Gb of storage. It supports Sony's MagicGate copy-protection system and will be available in the 1st half of 2006. Secondly – the Thoughts. I am deliberately saying nothing about this fifth Memory Stick 'standard', though I can guess what some of your comments will be. ;-)

[Pony99CA]

Yippee! Another new memory card format! We can never have enough of them! :roll:

Steve

[krisbrown]

Gonna be used in the new Sony 'Walkman' phone, the W800 thingy or whatever it's called, 'wide berth' springs to mind and 'barge pole'.

SONY GIVE IT UP!!!!

[UnLoGiC]

Sony, sony, sony why do they have to be so damn greedy, why can they fold into the line and use CF/SD/miniSD cards LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE!

I know variation and competition is good but in this case it's just causing problems for the end user... :|

[PDANEWBIE]

[rant on]

I really have to ask myself... WHY?

They have so many friggin formats out there and all of them do what? store and write data! Imagine if they had this many versions of CD's and you had to buy the right CD media for the player....

Ugh I thought DVD's were bad enough with the + and - ratings....

I think that from now on people need to ask if these introductions will even be benifical from a user stand point... I can see the jump from CF to SD... I can's see the difference in SD vrs the mini.... I can't see the difference in the Sony DUO and the SD....

I think the person to make the most money in the world will be the first person to develop a truely universal format that is in everything..... But what fun would that be to end calling some clueless 19 year old sales person at your local Best Buy who says uh I don't know if this works with your current setup. Or the hours of pouring over solutions to make product A work with product B but only if you have solution C that is obscurely documented in about 3 off beat web pages no search engine will find unless you type in the specific prhase only it has.

Long live the palm! oh wait the ranting made me delirious sorry.....

[/rant off]

[Craig Horlacher]

I love a lot of Sony hardware - I love my PSP! But Sony just can't seem to understand the value of standards. MS Duo I think is going to survive just because the psp is doing so well.

You'd think Sony would take a hint from thier stupid "mp3" players that didn't play normal mp3's, they were sure a hit (yeah right!)...I think they've finally released some mp3 players that do play mp3's but not before their electronics group had to restructure because they're not selling anything. Two reasons why, lack of innovation and propietary formats.

Is someone from Sony reading these posts? Can you explain why on earth Sony refused to use perfectly good flash memory formats? Am I the moron here? Am I missing something? Sure, the execs may think they'll make more money this way, and there are a lot of stupid people in this country (I may very well be one of them) however, I'm thinking that even most stupid people don't want additional memory formats.

[latinware]

That´s probably one of the reason why Sony has not been able to be #1 in selling units lately. If they figure that SD and CF are more or less the trend they should step down from the nebulose and start making hardware compatible with it.

[cml]

You would think the people that brought you the Betamax would have learned the lesson about standards sometime ago... but apparently not!

[UnLoGiC]

You would think the people that brought you the Betamax would have learned the lesson about standards sometime ago... but apparently not!

LOL, good point :!: :lol:

[Sven Johannsen]

The great thing about standards is that there are enough of them that everyone can have one of their own.

[jgalindo]

Memory Stick Sucks! Long Live SD!

[serpico]

This company has its problems now and is restructuring to survive. You would think that this memory card issue and their counter part products is the reason why so many of us won't buy their stuff. And here they go again with a new memory card format. They can easily try miniSD for their new cell phones just like Motorola does. Or use Samsung's new format that reaches up to 32G as well. And really the memory stick in the PSP should have been another option of storing data. It should have came with at least 2 or 4G of flash built-in. It's these small stupid tricks that Sony does to sell more memory sticks that costs them big time in the end. Sorry for the rant guys... :wink:

[Jonathon Watkins]

The great thing about standards is that there are enough of them that everyone can have one of their own.

Funnily enough, I have a post brewing about that...... :wink:

[Muntasser]

hey, I LOVE It!

its small and its uber sexy. also its only going to be used in mobile phones anyway - so thats exactly what I'd be looking for to stick in my mobile, not some chopped off MS, aka MS duo.

[Muntasser]

and 1 gig is a great start for such a small form factor.

Now everybody, show sony some love and a hug!

[AMD]

My response to Sony's attempt to create new memory card formats and promote the format by putting it in every Sony product, is that I don't buy Sony products that use proprietary card slots.

Hopefully when they lost enough sales in laptops, PDAs, media players...they will realize that it is time to stick to "real" industry standards.

[Jonathon Watkins]

its small and its uber sexy. also its only going to be used in mobile phones anyway - so thats exactly what I'd be looking for to stick in my mobile, not some chopped off MS, aka MS duo.

So why not use SD or mini SD like the rest of the world? You can even use micro SD if you've so inclined. :wink:

[serpico]

So, if I support Sony and buy different products like cell phones, cameras, etc, I need to buy different memory cards for each item? Now that's f***ed up. You would think that if they want the customers' support in purchasing future products from them, that there would be only one standard.

Perhaps their technology isn't that great, which is why they need to keep producing new card formats to give the people bigger memory storage. When I make purchases, I first see if I can use my stock of memory cards with it. The PSP was the only reason I bought memory sticks. Or else I would have only SD cards (PocketPC) and compact flash cards (Canon digital camera) at home.

[serpico]

its small and its uber sexy. also its only going to be used in mobile phones anyway - so thats exactly what I'd be looking for to stick in my mobile, not some chopped off MS, aka MS duo.

So why not use SD or mini SD like the rest of the world? You can even use micro SD if you've so inclined. :wink:

Exactly! Use a standard that people currently are using with their current devices. That way it will be more tempting for people to buy a new device and use their memory cards. If I need to buy another format of memory card to use a new device, I will pass on it.

[Ce]

Luckily I just bought myself a "92 in One" memorycard reader....so no big deal. I just finished reading the manual trying to figur out how to insert the card....... :wink:

[serpico]

Luckily I just bought myself a "92 in One" memorycard reader....so no big deal. I just finished reading the manual trying to figur out how to insert the card....... :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Jonathon Watkins]

Luckily I just bought myself a "92 in One" memorycard reader....so no big deal. I just finished reading the manual trying to figur out how to insert the card....... :wink:

Nah. You want a PPCT 242-in-1 card reader (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32511&amp;highlight=242in1). :wink:

[Pony99CA]

You would think the people that brought you the Betamax would have learned the lesson about standards sometime ago... but apparently not!
Actually, I'm not sure that's a good analogy. Betamax came out before VHS players, so there wasn't a home standard around; Sony was creating a new product area (and standard). (There was a 3/4" format for industrial uses, but those weren't suitable for home use, I guess.) In fact, I read that Sony developed VHS (or a similar system) and didn't think the quality was good enough.

Sony's problem came from two areas:

VHS supported two hours, not one, which meant an entire movie could be distributed on one VHS cassette.

JVC was willing to license VHS to everybody; Sony hardly licensed Betamax at all. Think Windows vs. Macintosh here. So even when Beta supported two hours, VHS was already taking over.

I also think Sony should give up on Memory Stick and start using SD. Of course, they'd probably have to pay licensing fees to another group, which hurts financially, but they're already doing it in some products now.

However, they should make sure that all of their products also support either Memory Stick or Memory Stick Duo for at least a few years so that customers that bought into Memory Stick aren't screwed. They might not even need two slots for this; my Fujitsu laptop accepts either an SD card or a Memory Stick in one slot.

Steve

[T-Will]

I think this is a fitting repost from the Pretec C-Flash thread (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38334&amp;start=10&amp;postdays=0&amp;postorder=asc&amp;highlight=)

Just what we need, another memory card format!
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/t-will/Forums/rollbarf.gif
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[serpico]

My business HP notebook has one slot too that accepts different types of memory cards. Sony needs to wake up. Paying the license fees to others would help them selling more products. As I said before, I would buy more Sony products if I didn't need to buy memory sticks at the same time.

[gibson042]

My response to Sony's attempt to create new memory card formats and promote the format by putting it in every Sony product, is that I don't buy Sony products that use proprietary card slots.
Amen. I was in the market for a small, high-quality digital camera, and Memory Stick was the only thing that prevented me from getting a Sony DSC-T1. Instead, I waited for the better part of a year and purchased a Canon SD200 when it was released. I've also steered friends and family away from Sony portable electronics, warning them about Memory Stick. Until Sony embraces (mini|micro|)SD, they won't even have my consideration.

[Jonathon Watkins]

I've also steered friends and family away from Sony portable electronics, warning them about Memory Stick. Until Sony embraces (mini|micro|)SD, they won't even have my consideration.

Yup, I've been steering folks away from Sony for a while as well. They have made a partial move to supporting CF cards as well as MS on their high end cameras, but it's not enough. Sony's addiction to 'walled gardens' is going to get it into trouble.....

[jlp]

Memory Stick Sucks! Long Live SD!
You mean MemorySTINK? or maybe just MemoryS**T, unless it's MemorySINK or MemorySICK?? :lol:

Just make it MemorySUCK :twisted:

Post edited for content by mod JR

[jlp]

Luckily I just bought myself a "92 in One" memorycard reader....so no big deal. I just finished reading the manual trying to figur out how to insert the card....... :wink:

Tho I perfectly understand this is a joke (sorta) it's nowhere to be an acceptable solution: tho you can use an all-in-one card reader to read different cards in your PC/laptop, you can't get it to exchange cards between different mobile devices.

And this is what these cards are for: to store lots of data and exchange them between different mobile devices.

So these numerous card formats not only are bad for consumers, they are bad for the manufacturers as well, because they buy much less cards because of the many formats that none seem to dominate.

They say the more competition the better, that's right for devices, that's absolutely wrong for storage media.

Look at movie tapes: they only started to get every consumer interested when VHS became dominant.

But here with so many card formats it's much harder for one format to become dominant, especially since it's the manufacturers that choose which slot to integrate.

Secondly one VCR was roughly the equivalent of another; now it's the device capabilities that make a big difference.

Then, you only used VCR for ONE single purpose: recording/playing TV/movies.

Now you use those electronic devices for so many things: with one single device you can: 1) call, 2) take pictures 3) record movies, 4) find your way (GPS), 5) listen to songs, 6) play games, 7) surf the web, 8) read e-books, 9) bing your notes with you, 10) wake up, 11) store your phonebook, 12) store your appointments, ans so many more things.

Things are somewhat different and manufacturers think by making proprietary formats they will earn more but it's the opposite that happens because people boycott some manufacturers like a few of you have demonstrated.

[jlp]

For many months I've had the idea of building a website to clearly inform people about all the many disadvantages these too many formats bring.

I even want to start a petition to let us users voice our wrath to manufacturers.

I also tried contacting major manufacturers to let them know my somewhat informed opinion about this. It's very hard to reach the right person as you would expect...

For this website project I just need to buy the domain name (already in my head) and build the site.

I already have enough notes in my Axim about this...

[saru83]

Well, i know that Sony always has its own thing, but CHILL OUT, TAKE IT EASY. New format!! Whats the Big deal???

U dont wanna use MS, DONT BUY SONY PRODUCTS, u happy, sony happy!! it doesnt matter with them, a LOT of ppl r still buying there stuff!!

Then i cant understand why the heck will u buy ONE memory card to use it in all ur devices... thats just NONSENCE. u buy one for each an every differnt device!!

If u cant afford it, DONT BUY IT, but STOP screwing up with this HIGHLY inovative company.... STOP IT &amp; take it easy 0X

[jlp]

Quote "saru83":
Well, i know that Sony always has its own thing, but CHILL OUT, TAKE IT EASY. New format!! Whats the Big deal???

The big deals are that 1) we need to keep buying new xxx-in-1 adapters to conform to those new formats (well, not me actually :twisted:). 2) MOST card formats even between Sorry devices are INCOMPATIBLE so you can't use MemoryS**T cards in devices that need MemorySTINK MagicHATE, you can't use the newer high capacity MemorySINK Pro cards in just about ALL Sorry devices older than a year or two (They've made devices using MemorySUCK slots since about a decade now) so MOST the electronic devices they ever made are INCOMPATIBLE with today's cards :evil: 3) it traps most customer with low knowledge in electronic devices with stuff with lower speed, lower capacities, lower everything but price :evil:. Usually a higher price is to be expected with higher everything, NOT lower everything like Sorry's MemorySTINK cards :evil:.

U dont wanna use MS, DONT BUY SONY PRODUCTS, u happy, sony happy!!

Me very very happy, but 15,000 + Sorry employees very very UNHAPPY, lose their jobs :evil:.

it doesnt matter with them, a LOT of ppl r still buying there stuff!!

NOT ENUFF or they wouldn't cut 15,000 jobs!! :evil:

Then i cant understand why the heck will u buy ONE memory card to use it in all ur devices... thats just NONSENCE. u buy one for each an every differnt device!!

Where do you get that one would buy just buy ONE single card for all their devices?!

The sense you seem to miss is that COMPATIBILITY allows you to swap cards between many or even ALL your devices.

Very often, I need to swap some data from one device to another, from my notebook to my PDA (I just need a tiny USB SD card reader the size of a thumbkey NOT a huge 242-in-1 reader), view some pix on my PDA screen that's larger, take some extra pix and I can just swap my MP3 player's SD card and put in my digicam, I want to send my moviecam's movies thru my cell phone, etc.

Only because almost ALL my electronic devices are SD capable that I can do it.

If u cant afford it, DONT BUY IT, but STOP screwing up with this HIGHLY inovative company.... STOP IT &amp; take it easy 0X

What innovation have they made recently? What innovation did they ever make?

The Walkman was just a logical step in the miniaturization of electronics and motors. The audio cassette was Philips' invention, the CD player was Philips' invention (the optical disc was invented around 10 years before by an American scientist, in 1969!!). The video laser disc was Pioneer's invention (2 decades before DVD!!)

No I wouldn't call Sorry a highly innovative company. Not that they don't own patents....

BetaMax was an utter failure (technologically good, but a market failure none the less).

Look at the MP3 player market, their's is an utter failure. They don't manufacture their own LCD, CD or DVD.

And the MemorySINK cards is their worst failure. Who besides Sorry makes electronic devices that use the slot? Only a tiny handful of products besides Sorry make some that are at best invisible!!

Post edited for content by mod JR

[Phoenix]

This is the seventh Memory Stick format.

I have a nice list that I've continually been updating of all the different card formats so far (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35423&amp;start=10) (and a few that we will see soon), and the M2 is the latest addition.

[Muntasser]

focusing back on the TOPIC. This article is about the M2 stick by Sony.

It is quite obviously designed for ultra compact devices - the killer app for this stick being mobile phones, aka the SonyEricsson series of phones which are IMO some of the best new mobiles floating around on the market.

The chances of you using this kind of card in your cameras/PDA's etc even if it was compatible is slim. Pulling memory out of phones is inconvenient, especially when its this small, its likely to be sandwiched in the same place as the SIM.

Let alone that the precious 1GB of data on this M2 stick will be transferable to PC through a USB cable anyway - so u can use your PC/laptop as an intermediate device if u must get the data over to another device with urgency.

So stop b1tching about the M2. Embrace it and love it as an alternative to MS Duo.

[serpico]

Why not stick a 2G flash chip in there instead if it's mainly for use in mobile devices? Or just use miniSD? WTF?

[saru83]

The big deals are that...

u know what, u mentioned A LOT of good points to support ur opinion, so basically to support what i'm saying &amp; discuss it. it will take a lot of research, anyways Neither of us wrong, we r both right with differnt point of views... i appreciate ur LONG post, i liked it :twisted:

[Mark Johnson]

Now everybody, show sony some love and a hug!


Terribly sorry my friend, but I also must join the "torches and pitchforks mob" and hurl a rhetorical brick through Sony's walled-garden window.

I love being able to take my SD card out of my Axim x50v, put it into my Minolta camera, and then into the (built-in) slot on my Toshiba notebook. SD is a real standard, CF is even a real standard (although a bit large).

Sony is, once again, just trying to create a standard by fiat. It's sad, but the best part is that they've now re-standardized the original standard MemoryStick so many times it's actually hillarious! It was annoying at the beginning, then MemoryStick Pro made me giggle, but Memory Stick Duo gave me a real hearty belly laugh, and made me wonder just how bad the case of "Marketing A.D.D." had gotten at Sony. The good news is I only had to wonder for such a short period before they schlepped M2 onto the market, and this one is making me howl with laughter!

I'm not really woried that this "standard" will get any real traction in the market, but I'm very worried that in a few months they'll push M3 or MemoryStickUber or M3m0ry S1tck l33t and when I read that announcement I'll double-over laughing so hard I break something.

A hug is really not what Sony needs right now...

[Phoenix]

...Embrace it and love it as an alternative to MS Duo.

Blech. No thanks. There's no conceivable need for this card along with 90% of what's out there. As if Sony doesn't have enough formats already.

[Pony99CA]

U dont wanna use MS, DONT BUY SONY PRODUCTS, u happy, sony happy!! it doesnt matter with them, a LOT of ppl r still buying there stuff!!
When did PPC Thoughts add an IM or SMS method to post? :rofl:

Seriously, wouldn't that be cool? You could get posts in real-time in an IM channel, and anything you replied with would get posted in the forum. The downside would be a lot of garbage posts, but if somebody ever implements this, consider this prior art. :-D

Steve

[bnycastro]

I don't buy Sony products because of the MS format. I also tell my friends to steer clear of Sony and MS. But as another poster wrote: Sony still sells [maybe not as much] but they still do.

[Pony99CA]

I don't buy Sony products because of the MS format. I also tell my friends to steer clear of Sony and MS. But as another poster wrote: Sony still sells [maybe not as much] but they still do.
I too have avoided products with Memory Stick support, such as Sony digital cameras and camcorders. However, I did finally buy one such product -- the Playstation Portable -- because it was very cool and didn't really have any competition. The Nintendo DS doesn't have games that I'd enjoy (and also has a proprietary format), and the Gizmondo -- as much as I like the concept -- doesn't look like it will succeed.

So now I have a Memory Stick Pro Duo (well, two actually -- the 32 MB one that came with the system and a 1 GB one that I bought to have reasonable space for content). That meant that I also had to buy a Memory Stick Duo to Memory Stick adapter to work with my card reader.

That brings up another pet peeve -- why doesn't some company make a reader with direct support for MS Duo and other reduced-size formats? They claim support for 5,987 formats, but you need adapters to work with 5,925 of them. :roll:

Will this new abomination come with an adapter? At least T-Flash (er, Micro SD) cards come with an SD adapter. Most Memory Stick Pro Duo cards don't seem to come with adapters (some do), so I'm expecting the worst with Memory Stick Micro.

Steve

[gibson042]

That brings up another pet peeve -- why doesn't some company make a reader with direct support for MS Duo and other reduced-size formats?
You might want to look (http://sandisk.com/download/photos/retail/12in1-reader2.jpg) closely (http://sandisk.com/download/photos/retail/12in1-reader-dock.jpg) at the Sandisk ImageMate 12-in-1 (http://sandisk.com/retail/im-12in1.asp). I'm not positive, but I believe it has direct support for miniSD, RS-MMC, and Memory Stick Duo &amp; PRO Duo.

[Pony99CA]

That brings up another pet peeve -- why doesn't some company make a reader with direct support for MS Duo and other reduced-size formats?
You might want to look (http://sandisk.com/download/photos/retail/12in1-reader2.jpg) closely (http://sandisk.com/download/photos/retail/12in1-reader-dock.jpg) at the Sandisk ImageMate 12-in-1 (http://sandisk.com/retail/im-12in1.asp). I'm not positive, but I believe it has direct support for miniSD, RS-MMC, and Memory Stick Duo &amp; PRO Duo.
That's cool. The text says it supports Mini SD, RS-MMC and Memory Stick Duo without an adapter. It doesn't seem to support Micro SD, though (I have a 128 MB T-Flash card in my Motorola V710, but at least it came with an SD adapter).

Steve

[k1darkknight]

... hours of pouring over solutions to make product A work with product B but only if you have solution C...
Ahhh...you've been reading the manual for the (insert name of any 'personal electronic device' here).
"Insert tab A into slot B..."

[k1darkknight]

I love a lot of Sony hardware... Problem #1

But Sony just can't seem to understand the value of standards. Sure they can! Their own!

You'd think Sony would take a hint from thier stupid "mp3" players that didn't play normal mp3's... MiniDisc, anyone? BetaMax?

...propietary formats. ... Can you explain why on earth Sony refused to use perfectly good flash memory formats? Hmmm...maybe they think they can be the Micro$oft of 'personal electronic devices' by using their proprietary formats? (Hmmm...I suppose it's 'just a coincidence' that MicroSoft and MemoryStick have the same 'initials' - MS)

Sure, the execs may think they'll make more money this way... Yeah, they think that just b/c you have one Sony device that uses a MemoryStick format, that you'll buy ONLY Sony devices, based on the thought that your MemoryStick from one will work in the other...except...now, it might NOT!

[k1darkknight]

The PSP was the only reason I bought memory sticks. Or else I would have only SD cards (PocketPC) and compact flash cards (Canon digital camera) at home.
Hmmmm...I've been wondering for a while now, how Nintendo can even HOPE to top Sony's PSP...I've GOT IT!!! Nintendo, put an SD CARD SLOT in your next GameBoy device!!!!! Then it can play GB, GBC, GBA, and GB(whatever) games, AND MP3s, video clips, and maybe even do some PDA stuff...or better yet, put Windows Mobile 5 on it! Maybe something where, when you first turn it on, it gives you a screen where you can choose between a GBx game and going into WM5...something like that...(shrugs)

[Pony99CA]

You'd think Sony would take a hint from thier stupid "mp3" players that didn't play normal mp3's...
MiniDisc, anyone? BetaMax?
What about them? Are you saying those were bad?

As my previous post about BetaMax said, that was actually an innovation in a new space. Sony messed up on the licensing, though, and tried to keep Beta alive long after it was clear VHS had won, which was the only really bad thing about BetaMax.

MiniDisc is similar. I think MiniDisc was the first optical read/write digital audio format available (at least to consumers), so it was also an innovation in a new space. One problem with MD was that it was lossy, which probably hurt sales. And, again, Sony kept making devices after it was clear that MiniDisc had failed, long after CD-R and CD-RW became available (and cheap).

While it can be argued that it's good that Sony doesn't orphan its consumers with those formats, there's a trade-off between orphaning a product and beating a dead horse.

Steve