A New Low in Consumer Confidence: HP's 90 Day Warranty

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/215348-64929-215381-314903-f89-1132544.html' target='_blank'>http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/e...89-1132544.html</a><br /><br /></div>I couldn't help but notice that on <a href="http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/215348-64929-215381-314903-f89-1132544.html">HP's new rx1950</a> - which is a good-looking device with too high a price for what it offers - the warranty in the United States is a mere 90 days. 8O This is a new low for the Pocket PC market - has anyone seen such a short warranty before on a device from any OEM? 90 day warranties are common on accessories, headphones, cables, and other assorted items, but on a $299 USD Pocket PC? And strangely enough, the rx1950 sold in every other market around the world will have a full one-year warranty. So why do customers in the US get the shorter warranty? Does HP have so little confidence in this model they're afraid of the US support costs of covering it for a full year, or is this merely a financial ploy to sell more extended warranties? Either way, this is a new low for HP and it hurts the Windows Mobile platform in general. For shame HP!

[Pdaholic]

That is bad indeed. I do have to say, though, that most of the time when I have a problem with a pda it happens in the first month (in which case, it goes back to the place I bought it from) or more than a year later (when the warranty is out anyway). I don't usually get the extended warranties, because I don't keep using them that long.

Not that any of this really matters to me; my last 3 pda's have been HP's, but given that their new devices are comparatively weaker than their competitors', I'm switching brands. MDA IV when it comes down in price!

[huangzhinong]

Not new at all. RZ1700, H1940 all come with 90 days warranty only.

[Ward]

In the UK, its not legally possible to offer less than 12 months warranty on new electrical equipment.

[Clinton Fitch]

All I can say is that I'm glad I went the Dell route....

I do have an extended warranty with them but it covers even accidental damage (read: I drop the friggin' thing) along with my 1 year warranty.

That, plus the fact I have my WM5 upgrade coming in a week or two... oh yeah, that Dell is looking better all the time....

[christak]

After 3 iPAQs (4 if you count my wife's), I too have gone the "Dell route". HP will have to make some drastic changes before I buy another iPAQ... I have been completely underwhelmed by HP since the last "good" devices came out. IMHO the 4150/4350 and 2210 were the last truly innovative iPAQ designs... The new iPAQs are overpriced and now poorly supported...

[burtcom]

Not new at all. RZ1700, H1940 all come with 90 days warranty only.

Likewise with the rx3115 -- it has a 90 day warranty

[ctitanic]

You get 90 days for any refurbished laptop or pocket pc! Shame on you HP!

[ctitanic]

After 3 iPAQs (4 if you count my wife's), I too have gone the "Dell route". HP will have to make some drastic changes before I buy another iPAQ... I have been completely underwhelmed by HP since the last "good" devices came out. IMHO the 4150/4350 and 2210 were the last truly innovative iPAQ designs... The new iPAQs are overpriced and now poorly supported...

I agree, and I glad I went too with the Dell route. Better service and better warranty.

[applejosh]

Palm only offers a 90 day on their Tungsten E's, so it's not completely unheard of for crappy warranties on the low end stuff.

[SteveHoward999]

Somebody has asrgued here before that the US gets lower warranties than Europe and other places because the stuff sold in the US is not built to such a high standard so it can be sold cheaper. I don't remember seeing anything to substantiate that.

I'd guess that the in the US people are more likely to complain about minor faults (they love to complain here don't they? And then sue ...) so maybe HP are trying to curb that? Or at least contain it to within the first 90 days.

[Damion Chaplin]

Palm only offers a 90 day on their Tungsten E's, so it's not completely unheard of for crappy warranties on the low end stuff.

Hey HP! Do us all a favor and start making Palms, OK?
You used to be the leader in Pocket PCs, but now you're just laughable.
With products like yours around, I'm embarrased to be a PPC person. :(

Remember when people used to criticize them for their 1-year warranty on their laptops? Ah, those were the days...

[dma1965]

I think it is time we all just stopped buying hp Pocket PC's. The last decent model they came out with was the 4150. Since switching to a Pocket PC Phone I can no longer tolerate carrying a standalone Pocket PC anyway, and hp has proven their PPC phone models are intolerable to annoying. I am much happier with my SX66 than I ever was with anything from hp, and a 90 day warranty is just another nail in their coffin. :byebye:

[axe]

yet another reason why my next PPC will be a Dell, if not one of those cool new Treos (if I can get one in Canada on GSM --- Hey ROGERS!!!)

AXE

[Paragon]

Somebody has asrgued here before that the US gets lower warranties than Europe and other places because the stuff sold in the US is not built to such a high standard so it can be sold cheaper. I don't remember seeing anything to substantiate that.

I'd guess that the in the US people are more likely to complain about minor faults (they love to complain here don't they? And then sue ...) so maybe HP are trying to curb that? Or at least contain it to within the first 90 days.

No, the UK just has tougher consumer protection laws.

[SteveHoward999]

No, the UK just has tougher consumer protection laws.


As does the rest of Europe. I wasn't disagreeing with that point, which has already been made, if a little indirectly.

[Bladefree21]

HP charges a good amount for there "low end" PDA. Competitors are selling better devices with longer warranties for similar prices. Free Enterprise will fix the problem sooner or later... :)

It hurts me because I loved to buy the innovation they made... I really enjoyed the products "HP" made in the past!

its been a long time, sigh


They've a knife to there wrist and know how to use it :evil:

[jbachandouris]

I am still smarting from their decision to delay the WM5 upgrade until Spring 2006. I would sell my 4705 on eBay, but the highest bid I got last time was $238 (w/case and 256MB SD card). Obviously, I am not going to 'give' it away! I just don't use it very much at all.

I will probably go with a WM Treo in the future.

[Bruno Figueiredo]

Ward: not quite right. It's not just one year. In the EU, all non perishable goods must have a mandatory 2 year warranty. So, no luck for HP here.

[Tim Rapson]

I am just fine with a 90 day warranty. I think that is something is seriously wrong with it the problem will show up in 90 days or after about 2 years when batteries and many other items just wear out if they are of shoddy design.
What I don't like is the HP models. The decent ones, the 1900s are overpriced by $100. The 2000 series are a very poor excuse for 2200s. The whole line doesn't have a single model I would buy at those prices whether it had a 10 year warranty or a 10 minute one.

[mscdex]

This is just another reason I'm glad that I went with Dell instead of HP :-)

[Paragon]

I am just fine with a 90 day warranty. I think that is something is seriously wrong with it the problem will show up in 90 days or after about 2 years when batteries and many other items just wear out if they are of shoddy design.
What I don't like is the HP models. The decent ones, the 1900s are overpriced by $100. The 2000 series are a very poor excuse for 2200s. The whole line doesn't have a single model I would buy at those prices whether it had a 10 year warranty or a 10 minute one.

I agree, Tim.

Originally I was pretty excited about the 1950 because of its 4150 form factor, but as we learn more and more it looses its appeal. It has the great form factor but falls apart after that. A PPC doesn't have to have all the latest and greatest to be a good device, or give good value. Unfortunately its looking like the 1950 provides little, good value.

Dave

[Chairman Clench]

Not to be the voice of doom here...

But I think we will see Dell follow suit. Dell has already cut the warranty to 90 days on some of their PCs as has HP and others. HP is just lowering the benchmark for the industry, but mark my words, they won't be the only one to drop PPC warranties to 90 days.

In the past, I have found that most of my PDA problems requiring service occur either in the first 30 days or in the 6-9 month period. So, I think a warranty slashing fest will impact more people than we may think.

The other unfortunate side effect of this is that less ethical vendors that HP and others purchase parts from may start to reduce the quality of their parts knowing that HP won't come back to them wth defective units if they make something that can last at least 90 days.

I guess extended warranties have just become the most important PDA accessory. In this regard, Dell definately has the edge... their warranties are usually much more reasonably priced than HP's.

[Paragon]

You may be right Chairman. Time will tell.

Dell are definitely the ones driving this. If you compare Dell and HP, HP needs a higher margin or higher selling price on its products to end up with an equal profit. Dell is a much more efficient organization than HP. Right there gives Dell a big advantage. Now add to that the fact that HP has to share the profit with its retailers, and resellers. HP has to sell its apple for more that Dell has to sell their apple...somewhere something has to give. HP can only go so high with their selling price before they have to look at other ways of offering a competitive product that is profitable. Warranty is probably a pretty easy way of lowering their cost of a product and for most people it is probably the least visible.

When Dell entered the PPC market they had an immediate affect on HP. Since that time HP has struggled to find away to keep Windows Mobile products profitable and salable. They can only market so many highend 4700 type products. The masses are after the low end products where HP has the toughest time competing.

Dave

[Fishie]

Somebody has asrgued here before that the US gets lower warranties than Europe and other places because the stuff sold in the US is not built to such a high standard so it can be sold cheaper. I don't remember seeing anything to substantiate that.

I'd guess that the in the US people are more likely to complain about minor faults (they love to complain here don't they? And then sue ...) so maybe HP are trying to curb that? Or at least contain it to within the first 90 days.

That would have been me.
After batch testing the batches with higher error counts are used for the US as compared to Europe becouse over here consumer product standards and legally required warrantees are much higher.
Its a common practice and no one will want to make that public becouse it would mean a public outcry but it constantly happens.
Even your gas, while cheaper is of lower quality then the gas we use in our cars here.

Another example, Sony in Belgium now will exchange PSP´s even with a single dead or lazy pixel, in the US you need at least six.
You guys are getting shafted.
Urm well, maybe not, you just get value for money, just like we do I guess.

[carrigaline]

Somebody has asrgued here before that the US gets lower warranties than Europe and other places because the stuff sold in the US is not built to such a high standard so it can be sold cheaper. I don't remember seeing anything to substantiate that.

I'd guess that the in the US people are more likely to complain about minor faults (they love to complain here don't they? And then sue ...) so maybe HP are trying to curb that? Or at least contain it to within the first 90 days.

That would have been me.
After batch testing the batches with higher error counts are used for the US as compared to Europe becouse over here consumer product standards and legally required warrantees are much higher.
Its a common practice and no one will want to make that public becouse it would mean a public outcry but it constantly happens.
Even your gas, while cheaper is of lower quality then the gas we use in our cars here.

Another example, Sony in Belgium now will exchange PSP´s even with a single dead or lazy pixel, in the US you need at least six.
You guys are getting shafted.
Urm well, maybe not, you just get value for money, just like we do I guess.


Eh yeah......us Europeans just pay twice the price.......really value for money.....

True about gas though......the standard octance is about 95 in the EU and in the US its 87? Then again......its half the price again.....

[SteveHoward999]

True about gas though......the standard octance is about 95 in the EU and in the US its 87? Then again......its half the price again.....


Oh they are crying into their dishwater - oops sorry, their Bud - that fuel has reached $3 a gallon ... when in the UK it is closer to $9.

Admittedly the price has more than doubled in most places in little over a year, but by European standards it's still durned cheap. I think that somehow prices might be artificially low here in Mississippi, as I am still paying $2.45 a gallon.

Oh - and a US gallon is 4/5ths the amount of a UK gallon, but still... it's nice to see the US fuel price creeping closer to the UK price (it used to be about 1/5th the price in the UK) because it might convince folk to stop driving 3 ton trucks with 8 litre (oops - liter) engines and swap them for more realistic transport for nipping out to WalMart.

[PetiteFlower]

:offtopic:

Higher octane gas is not "better quality" then lower octane gas. It just means it combusts at a higher temperature. If your car's engine was designed for 87 octane gas and you put 95 in it, you're going to end up with reduced fuel efficiency and higher emissions because your engine doesn't run hot enough to completely burn the gas. High performance engines are designed to run at a higher temperature, that is why they require higher octane gas and using lower octane will cause the engine to "knock" or "ping" and damage it.

This message has been brought to you from the Car Talk guys, who taught me everything I know about cars :)

[Fishie]

Eh yeah......us Europeans just pay twice the price.......really value for money.....

True about gas though......the standard octance is about 95 in the EU and in the US its 87? Then again......its half the price again.....

Er, no we dont.
What a lot of people dont see is that the prices we pay INCLUDE 21%(for Belgium) taxes while prices advertised in the US are witouth tax.
For most things we pay the dollar price in euros so it evens out and we end up paying the exact same amount.

Expansys sells the Ipaq 4700 for 560$ WITOUTH tax.
PDAshop in Belgium sells the Ipaq 4700 for 480€ INCLUDING taxes.
Furthermore more the Ipaq in Belgium includes TWO full years of warrantee as opposed to one in the US.
So the unit IS cheaper in Belgium and has a much better and longer warrantee to boot.

The paying twice as much mantra hasnt been true in a long time.

[carrigaline]

Eh yeah......us Europeans just pay twice the price.......really value for money.....

True about gas though......the standard octance is about 95 in the EU and in the US its 87? Then again......its half the price again.....

Er, no we dont.
What a lot of people dont see is that the prices we pay INCLUDE 21%(for Belgium) taxes while prices advertised in the US are witouth tax.
For most things we pay the dollar price in euros so it evens out and we end up paying the exact same amount.

Expansys sells the Ipaq 4700 for 560$ WITOUTH tax.
PDAshop in Belgium sells the Ipaq 4700 for 480€ INCLUDING taxes.
Furthermore more the Ipaq in Belgium includes TWO full years of warrantee as opposed to one in the US.
So the unit IS cheaper in Belgium and has a much better and longer warrantee to boot.

The paying twice as much mantra hasnt been true in a long time.


I think we might be going too far off topic.......

I agree that we can find examples either way but in real terms (not plain monetary terms ) electronics are cheaper in the US. Because of regional market segmentation and forex rates MNCs make large gains in the EU in USD.

One thing which cannot be disputed though is the level of competition and size of retail and ecommerce operations in the US. This usually means our US friends get great deals and discounts which are very seldom seen in the EU. That is why we need to increase competition in the EU for the benefit of the consumer. However views on that depend on whether you feel your economic model should be closer to Boston than Brussels.............enough off topic stuff from me.....:)

[Demens]

This is quite the "offtopic", but just a quick one.

I just recently turned pocket pc side of mobile devices. I bought a Hp RX3715 for 270€.

I thought it was a great deal? But since you are bashing Hp here, what actually i could've had if i bought something like Dell ppc?
Any major differences?

[Menneisyys]

Eh yeah......us Europeans just pay twice the price.......really value for money.....


Yup, that's right... all non-European products are DAMN expensive here... it's only local (European) products (Nokia, Sony-Ericsson, Fujitsu-Siemens) that have tolerable prices.

[timcolling]

I made the mistake of purchasing an HP 5555. It had to go to HP for repairs twice in eighteen months. Sheesh!

I now have a Samsung i730 and I am VERY satisfied with it.

- Tim

[thenikjones2]

Eh yeah......us Europeans just pay twice the price.......really value for money.....

True about gas though......the standard octance is about 95 in the EU and in the US its 87? Then again......its half the price again.....

Er, no we dont.



The paying twice as much mantra hasnt been true in a long time.

Mountain Hardware Wander pants (trousers) in US $80
Mountain Hardware Wander pants (trousers) in UK £80 [~$148]
If I buy them direct from US they cost $80+$35=$115

In the UK, $1=£1 seems to be the standard rate of exchange, so we are being ripped off.

[ctmagnus]

I haven't been to Europe in 10+ years so I don't remember much about what exchange was like when I was there (other than I got 1:1 when I cashed my USD travellers cheques for Swiss francs) but my parents were there recently and they said 1 pound for a cup of coffee. The same coffee is $1 here.

[Menneisyys]

I haven't been to Europe in 10+ years so I don't remember much about what exchange was like when I was there (other than I got 1:1 when I cashed my USD travellers cheques for Swiss francs) but my parents were there recently and they said 1 pound for a cup of coffee. The same coffee is $1 here.

Yup, prices are generally higher here. For example, a cup of coffee is, in general, 2 euros in Finland anywhere. And I shouldn't mention the salaries either, which are also considerably lower than in the States everywhere in Europe. (OK, maybe not in the richest European countries like Norway or the Switzerland.)

[mikkri]

Expansys sells the Ipaq 4700 for 560$ WITOUTH tax.
PDAshop in Belgium sells the Ipaq 4700 for 480€ INCLUDING taxes.
Furthermore more the Ipaq in Belgium includes TWO full years of warrantee as opposed to one in the US.
So the unit IS cheaper in Belgium and has a much better and longer warrantee to boot.

The paying twice as much mantra hasnt been true in a long time.
Interesting, I can buy this Ipaq 4700 for about 560$ including all taxes here in Moscow. I though in USA prices are always lower :? :? :?

[PDANEWBIE]

I think most of you are missing the BIG picture here.... The big picture is these companies can make money selling "extended warranties" why not drop down your warranty rates and then sell a consumer a warranty pack at 100$'s more.... All of that just boils down to pure profit on the companys stance because 1) those that don't buy the warranty and break it have to buy a new device. 2) Those that do buy the extended warranty but don't have to use it thers another 100$ in their pocket. 3) Lastly a majority of extended warranties are not transferrable to a new owner (as far as I know) or the new owner may not know about it.

This is just a way for companies to get a little more buck out of Joe consumer.... 10 to 1 says other companies that want to make a few more bucks will do the same thing.

As far as the HP slams in this thread I agree they have some shoddy designs but I have the 2215 right now (out of warranty I might add) and am still today happy with its performance (after fixing the few flaws when I first bought it). I keep hoping they will turn around the lastest designs for something a little more innovative and fresh.

[Chairman Clench]

I think most of you are missing the BIG picture here.... The big picture is these companies can make money selling "extended warranties" why not drop down your warranty rates and then sell a consumer a warranty pack at 100$'s more.... All of that just boils down to pure profit on the companys stance because 1) those that don't buy the warranty and break it have to buy a new device. 2) Those that do buy the extended warranty but don't have to use it thers another 100$ in their pocket. 3) Lastly a majority of extended warranties are not transferrable to a new owner (as far as I know) or the new owner may not know about it.

This is just a way for companies to get a little more buck out of Joe consumer.... 10 to 1 says other companies that want to make a few more bucks will do the same thing.

As far as the HP slams in this thread I agree they have some shoddy designs but I have the 2215 right now (out of warranty I might add) and am still today happy with its performance (after fixing the few flaws when I first bought it). I keep hoping they will turn around the lastest designs for something a little more innovative and fresh.

I don't think we are missing the big picture at all. Extended warranties are a BIG revenue stream for all electronics items, regardless of whether they are sold by the reseller or the manufacturer. While in college, I sold consumer electronics (TVs, Stereos, etc.) and we were REQUIRED to hit a certain percentage of our sales in extended warranties or else face disciplinary action. This is not uncommon.

Other industries are also pushing extended warranties. Appliances, homes, cars, you name it. Companies are just viewing this as another revenue stream and consumers need to start viewing extended warranties as much a part of the cost of the product as taxes are.

[carrigaline]

I haven't been to Europe in 10+ years so I don't remember much about what exchange was like when I was there (other than I got 1:1 when I cashed my USD travellers cheques for Swiss francs) but my parents were there recently and they said 1 pound for a cup of coffee. The same coffee is $1 here.

Yup, prices are generally higher here. For example, a cup of coffee is, in general, 2 euros in Finland anywhere. And I shouldn't mention the salaries either, which are also considerably lower than in the States everywhere in Europe. (OK, maybe not in the richest European countries like Norway or the Switzerland.)

.....the highest income per capita in the EU is Luxembourg (for many reasons etc) followed by Ireland............in terms of most expensive places to live on average I believe it is Finland once again followed by Ireland.

[Damion Chaplin]

The other unfortunate side effect of this is that less ethical vendors that HP and others purchase parts from may start to reduce the quality of their parts knowing that HP won't come back to them wth defective units if they make something that can last at least 90 days.

Actually, it may very well be that HP dropped the warranty to 90 days because their parts suppliers were no longer willing to back their product for longer than that... If the screen isn't even guaranteed for 90 days, do you think HP would still offer a warranty past those 90 days?

I hope neither of these theories are true...