The Dell Axim X51v: If it Were Software, It Would Be a Dot Release

[Jason Dunn]

<img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/dell-axim-x51v-fullybody.jpg" /><br /><br /><b>Product Category:</b> Pocket PC<br /><b>Manufacturer:</b> <a href="http://www.dell.com/">Dell</a><br /><b>Where to Buy:</b> <a href="http://www.dell.com/">Dell</a><br /><b>Price:</b> $499 USD<br /><b>System Requirements:</b> n/a<br /><br /><b>Pros:</b><li>Continues the tradition of the well-liked X50v;<br /><li>Roomy 256 MB of Flash ROM;<br /><li>Retains excellent screen from the X50v;<br /><li>Dell has a good track record for OS upgrades;<br /><li>Same or better features than X50v at no additional cost.<b>Cons:</b><ul><li>Battery life still lacking;<li>Sluggish 2D screen drawing;<li>Windows Mobile 5 buggy;<li>No hardware enhancements for Windows Mobile 5 softkeys;<li>Ghastly 3rd party software install.</ul><b>Summary:</b><br />The Dell Axim X51v is an incremental upgrade from the X50v. While it retains all of the strong points of the X50v (price point, dual slots, screen), it does little to address the weak points such as lacking battery life, and sluggish 2D screen draws. The introduction of Windows Mobile 5 brings with it many advantages, but extra performance and polish are not neccesarily among them.<!><br /><PAGEBREAK><br /><span><b>First Things First</b></span><br />Let's get this out in the open right away: the X51v offers no compelling reason for any X50v owner to upgrade. It's got the same CPU (Intel PXA270 at 624 mhz), same screen (640 x 480 VGA), same GPU (Intel 2700G), same slots (SD + CF), and same buttons. There's a reason they called it the X51 series and not the X55 or X60 series. This really is a "dot" release. It's the most incremental release of any Pocket PC that I've seen from any OEM, although HP was equally uninspiring back in the iPAQ 39xx days.<br /><br />In some ways, that's a good thing for all the X50v owners out there; because Dell is offering a Windows Mobile 5 upgrade, you'll get practically everything that the X51v offers except for the extra Flash ROM. Dell has retained the same price point, so they don't really lose out either: people who were thinking about buying the X50v will now buy the X51v. Still, I'm left uninspired by the X51v, and as such this will be one of the shortest device reviews I've ever written because there's simply not that much to talk about from the hardware point of view. I should also note that Dell sent me a new ROM update tonight, which is supposed to improve (among other things) battery life, and thus some of the conclusions I've reached in using this device may not hold true when the final devices reach the hands of customers. The joy of reviewing non-production hardware!<br /><br /><span><b>So, What's Changed?</b></span><br />Let's talk about what's new and improved in the X51v. The biggest improvement is 256 MB of Flash ROM, and this is truly an excellent upgrade that Dell has made. Now that Windows Mobile 5 makes RAM purely for execution, this changes the way the memory game is played. No more fighting with the memory slider! On a freshly hard-reset X51v, there should be 64 MB of RAM available for program execution. At the moment, after a soft reset, my device is reporting there's 49.47 MB total program RAM, 16.82 MB is in use, and 32.65 MB is free. I'm a bit baffled as to why it's not reporting 64 MB - this may be a result of the new ROM update, or just bad user interface design on Microsoft's part.<br /><br />Of the 256 MB of Flash ROM on the X51v, 190 MB is available to the end user. This is simply <i>awesome</i>. This will allow users to cram their Pocket PC full of applications without needing a storage card. Windows Mobile 5 takes up around 66 MB of ROM, which is a big jump from previous versions. There's a good reason for this, however: my understanding is that each application now has some "slack space" for updates. So if a Windows Media Player 10 Mobile upgrade comes out and the total ROM footprint is 100 KB bigger than before, just that app can be upgraded instead of having to re-flash the entire ROM image. This means that the easy Flash upgrades we were supposed to get years ago will finally become a reality - if the information I've been told proves to be accurate. Microsoft and its OEM partners have historically done very poorly at this however, so I'm not holding my breath.<br /><PAGEBREAK><br /><span><b>Identical Hardware, Down to the Buttons</b></span><br />One of the big changes in Windows Mobile 5 is the introduction of soft keys. These are large software buttons that take the place of the toolbar in most Pocket PC applications. The concept comes from the Smartphone side of Windows Mobile, and the idea is that softkeys allow you to access all menu functions one-handed, without having to reach for the stylus. I'm still not sold on the concept, especially since when I'm using my Pocket PC, I actually <i>want</i> the more complex user-interface. I think this comes from the same group that decided the "X" button shouldn't actually close applications. ;-) The difference here is that the X51v doesn't have dedicated softkey buttons, which means if you want to use this feature you have to re-map two of the four buttons. This reduces the total functionality of the device, unless you get some third-party button mapping software that will allow you to use double-pushes to activate the original function of the button. I was very disappointed that Dell didn't alter its hardware to support this key Windows Mobile 5 feature.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/dell-axim-x51v-closeup.jpg" /><br /><i>Figure 1: Look ma, no softkey buttons!</i><br /><br />The wireless is also the same - almost. WiFi remains identical, but in switching to Windows Mobile 5, Dell also switched Bluetooth stacks from Broadcomm to Microsoft's own stack. Since I avoid Bluetooth like the plague, I'm unsure of the implications - I've heard that it lacks stereo headphone and hands-free headset support, but that Microsoft is working to add this into their product. The lack of headset support is of minimal importance since this isn't a phone device, but Bluetooth headphones are becoming popular and it's a shame Microsoft's Bluetooth stack is still so lacking when compared to what Broadcomm offers.<br /><br /><span><b>Windows Mobile 5: Not All is Golden</b></span><br />I won't delve too much into Windows Mobile 5 in this review, since I'm focusing on the X51v itself, but I found Windows Mobile 5 very painful in two ways when I was setting up and using the X51v. First, after a hard reset I connected the X51v to my PC and set up a new partnership. ActiveSync 4.0 has a different partnership wizard if you have a Windows Mobile 5 device, and it's quite intuitive. I entered my <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,42960">hosted Exchange account</a> information, then watched as basically nothing happened. The X51v synchronized with my desktop PC, but coughed up an 0x85020006 error when the device tried to sync with the Exchange server. ActiveSync 4.0 removes the option for Internet passthrough - I assumed that meant it was automatic, but after fighting with Connection Manager on the X51v for 15 minutes I gave up and disconnected. I turned on WiFi, and the X51v saw my access point - I entered my WEP key, started ActiveSync, and clicked sync. It worked! Within a few minutes I had all my data on the X51v - but why wouldn't the synchronization work in the cradle? I have no idea, but it's a serious problem.<br /><br />Later, I wanted to see if a particular ActiveSync bug had been fixed: I've always had the problem where, after a backup and restore, the Pocket PC has been unable to synchronize against the Exchange server again. Only a hard reset would allow the Pocket PC to sync again. On the X51v, I did a backup using the included application, then hard reset and a restore. I restore the device, then after a soft reset I noticed the date was wrong. No matter, I fixed it and started a sync session. Much to my delight, the sync actually started, which is sometime that wouldn't have happened under Windows Mobile 2003SE.<br /><br />My delight turned to disbelief, then anger as I saw what ActiveSync was doing: it duplicated 900 contacts, 50 emails, and 6 months worth of appointments! No warning, no "Replace, Remove, or Combine" dialogue box, simply a duplication. It will take me hours to fix this manually, unless I can find a tool to remove duplicates. I have memories of such a tool, but at this point I haven't had time to track one down. Any suggestions for one that will work with Outlook 2003 and an Exchange server? I'm unsure as to whether this is a problem with Dell's backup application, or with ActiveSync. The bottom line is that in this instance Exchange ActiveSync remains broken after a restore - and I'd rather have it break completely then duplicate all my data, so from my point of view it's actually gotten worse. I didn't think that was even possible!<br /><br />Suffice it to say that while Windows Mobile 5 brings with it several key advantages - persistent storage is amazingly helpful - my experience with it so far has been mixed (WMP 10 Mobile retains its horrible library functions), and I have no shortage of feedback for Microsoft at the MVP Summit coming up in a few weeks. Windows Mobile 5 feels like one step forward and two sideways.<br /><PAGEBREAK><br /><span><b>3D Performance</b></span><br />Because the X50v and X51v have the same Intel 2700G graphics processor, both devices are capable of impressive 3D performance. Futuremark makes a 3D benchmarking suite for Smartphones (<a href="http://www.futuremark.com/products/spmark04/">SPMARK04</a>) that they adapted for Pocket PCs with the 2700G GPU. Testing the X51v resulted in <b>26.01 FPS in Low Detail</b> mode, and <b>8.92 FPS in High Detail</b> mode. The closest any other handheld device (<a href="http://www.symplification.com/node/109">that they've tested</a>) can come is the Nokia 6630 at 14.5 FPS, almost half as fast. The SPMARK04 benchmark is interesting to watch - there's an impressively detailed helicopter flying over a forest, and in the demo mode you can use the d-pad to control the helicopter. You can see it chugging in the high detail mode, but the low detail mode is quite smooth. You can see the 3D rendering quality come through strongly in the bundled "Toy Golf" application as well - the graphics are very impressive!<br /><br /><span><b>Battery Life</b></span><br />Because I haven't had the X51v all that long, it's difficult to get a real handle on the battery life. The battery is the same size as the X50v, 1100 mah. Like all X50v users, I was really hoping Dell would put a bigger battery in the X51v - something in the 1500 mah range. In unofficial tests, Dell techs found a 10-15% improvement in battery life. In my own tests, results were mixed.<br /><br />Because Windows Mobile 5 devices don't need to power the RAM when the device is in suspend mode, my first thought was that the standby power drain would be much less. I fully charged the X50v and X51v, hard reset them, and let them sit. I powered up each to check the battery level several times, and after 52 hours of standby the battery level on the X50v was at 90% while the battery level of the X51v was at 89% - essentially the same battery level. So much for that theory!<br /><br />Next I set the CPU speed at 624 mhz on both the X50v and X51v and used Spb Benchmark the run the MP3 audio test. The system volume for each device was set at 100%, while the WMP 10 Mobile volume was set at 75%. Headphones were plugged into each device, and the screens were turned off. The X50v died after a mere <b>4 hours and 32 minutes</b>, while the X51v kept chugging along for <b>13 hours and 28 minutes</b>. I'm suspicious of these test results because I have a hunch the reason the X50v died so quickly was because the CPU was set to 624 mhz. I've reset the CPU on the X50v to Auto and am in the process of running the test again - it's been more than four hours and the X50v is still playing, so my hunch is I'll see results within the next 8 hours. The 13.5 hours of the X51v is very impressive - I'll run the test again with the CPU in Auto mode to see if it makes any difference. Given the huge difference in results, I'm wondering if the CPU setting didn't actually take effect on the X51v and it really was running in Auto mode.<br /><br /><span><b>Bundled Software: What a Mess!</b></span><br />The X51v comes with a CD that contains ActiveSync and a slew of third party programs. The setup was interesting because it first scanned my computer to ensure I had ActiveSync 4.0 installed, then it moved on to a list of third party applications. This is where it got ugly. First, there was no indication of which programs in the list were full versions - I knew from my discussions with Dell that the X51v came with full versions of Battery Pack Lite, Resco Picture Viewer, Geo Rally 3D, and Toy Golf 3D. The full versions were mixed in with the trial versions, so most users will assume that they're all trial versions and miss out on the great software they get for free! I checked off all the full versions and a few of the trial versions and clicked next - then was bombarded with an assortment of windows as the installers for the various programs started to vie for dominance.<br /><br />At one point my taskbar had so many installers in it I couldn't see which was which. Most of the programs used different installers, which only made things more of a mess. To add insult to injury you have programs that insist on littering the desktop computer with icons and some that instruct the user to perform a soft reset (Calligrapher). This would utterly confuse a new Pocket PC user. At one point, with four installers open, I had to disconnect the X51v because the install of CityTime was hung. As soon as I disconnected, the install of Bejewelled 2 started - so it looks like the problem was too many programs fighting for permission to install.<br /><br />The entire software install scenario with the X51v is a complete disaster - Dell should know better. The entire process seemed like an afterthought. What they need is a unified installer that pushes the CAB files down to the device and does an orderly install of the applications - and they need to clearly indicate which applications are full versions. I think customers would be better off if Dell pre-installed the full versions into the user-accessible Flash ROM. Customers would get to use the apps, and if they didn't like them they could uninstall them.<br /><PAGEBREAK><br /><span><b>Performance: Where the Silicon Hits the Road</b></span><br />A few hours ago I received version 1.6 of Spb Benchmark, and ran a series of performance tests on the X51v. I updated the ROM after that, and ran the tests again, so I was able to see the impact of the ROM update on performance. I should state one thing about the X51v before I go into the Spb Benchmark results: it doesn't feel slow. Although many of the Spb Benchmark results indicate the X51v is dog-slow compared to the X50v, when loaded up with all my data, I didn't find that the X51v felt slow very often at all. Certain actions felt "Flash ROM slow" - drawing icons in the games folder for instance - but in most cases I was pleased with the speed of the X51v. Jon Westfall happens to be testing an iMate Jasjar at the moment, and I got him to run Spb Benchmark 1.6 tonight, so I've included it in the results as well. Let's dive in!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/x51v-benchmark-overall.gif" /><br /><i>Figure 2: The overall results look extremely bad for the new Windows Mobile 5 devices.</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/x51v-benchmark-cpuindex.gif" /><br /><i>Figure 3: A surprising amount of variance between the three Axims that all have the same 624 Mhz CPU. Notice that the ROM update Dell issued today caused a small jump in performance. The Jasjar performs well considering the CPU is 104 Mhz slower. Windows Mobile 5 seems to have some CPU overhead that slows down performance.</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/x51v-benchmark-filesystemindex.gif" /><br /><i>Figure 4: This is the score that really looks for bad for the Windows Mobile 5 devices, and where reality and the benchmarks diverge. According to this benchmark, the X51v is almost ten times slower than the X50v at file operations. But in day to day use with Calender and Contact manipulations, the X51v feels nearly the same as the X50v. I think this is an instance where Spb Benchmark may have to come up with new tests more appropriate for Windows Mobile 5 devices.</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/x51v-benchmark-activesync.gif" /><br /><i>Figure 5: Windows Mobile 5 devices are faster at ActiveSync operations, likely due to the redesigned ActiveSync 4.0. The speeds are particularly noticeable when it comes to 1MB file downloads (not shown): the X51v is 27% faster than the X50v.</i><br /><br />Although most of the benchmarks look grim for the X51v, it doesn't feel slow in day to day use. Opening Contacts, adding Calendar entries, browsing the Web - it all feels almost the same as the X50v.<br /><br /><PAGEBREAK><br /><span><b>Bits and Pieces</b></span><br />There were a few other bits of information I gleaned from my discussion with Dell team members, so I'll summarize them here. The X51v is the first 100% lead free Pocket PC from Dell, designed as such to comply with European environmental standards that will be law in 2006. The X51 series will be shipping for the next 12-15 months, so it will overlap the next generation unit in the same way that Dell continued to ship the X30 when the X50 came out. The world-wide English launch happens today (the 20th of September), while European languages will launch on October 14th. Asia Pacific will come on November 23rd, which will include simplified Chinese and Japanese.<br /><br /><span><b>Conclusions</b></span><br />After spending some time with the Dell Axim X51v, I came to the same conclusion as I did with the X50v: it's a solid Pocket PC with great value for the money. The improvements are not enough to warrant purchasing it if you currently have an X50v, but if you have an older device and are looking to upgrade to the latest operating system, the X51v is a great choice. While I'd really like to see improvements in the 2D drawing speed to make the device feel more snappy, the X51v is no worse than the X50v in this regard. I also have to give Dell credit for being fairly consistent with its support of one generation back for operating system upgrades: this means that if you buy an X51v there's a good chance Dell will support it when the next version of Windows Mobile comes out. In the world of fickle Pocket PC OEMs that routinely abandon their users, Dell deserves a lot of credit for its approach. The X51v might not raise your pulse very much when you look at it (especially if you've an X50v owner), but it does what it does quite well.<br /><br /><i>Jason Dunn is an avid technology enthusiast who lives in Calgary, Alberta, with his wife, Ashley and dog, Keiko. He's very tired at the moment, having started this review on the same night he finished it, at 2:09 AM. He wishes he would have started it sooner instead of procrastinating. Got a cure for that?</i>

[ctitanic]

Because Windows Mobile 5 devices don't need to power the RAM when the device is in suspend mode, my first thought was that the standby power drain would be much less. I fully charged the X50v and X51v, hard reset them, and let them sit. I powered up each to check the battery level several times, and after 52 hours of standby the battery level on the X50v was at 90% while the battery level of the X51v was at 89% - essentially the same battery level. So much for that theory!


This is wrong. WM5 still need to power the RAM all time. You get more power from WM5 from another reason, the lack of the 72 hour rule on WM5.

Check this link

http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/09/wm5-will-give-you-at-least-25-of.html

[Menneisyys]

Great article!

Decent device, except for the lack of dedicated HW WM5 buttons / the same screen as in the x50v (which is a bit worse than the one in the hx4700/PL720) / MS BT stack / 1100 mAh battery (I'm looking forward to your additional test results!) / no jog dial / no other goodies like USB host.

Let's talk about what's new and improved in the X51v. The biggest improvement is 256 MB of Flash ROM, and this is truly an excellent upgrade that Dell has made. Now that Windows Mobile 5 makes RAM purely for execution, this changes the way the memory game is played. No more fighting with the memory slider! On a freshly hard-reset X51v, there should be 64 MB of RAM available for program execution. At the moment, after a soft reset, my device is reporting there's 49.47 MB total program RAM, 16.82 MB is in use, and 32.65 MB is free. I'm a bit baffled as to why it's not reporting 64 MB - this may be a result of the new ROM update, or just bad user interface design on Microsoft's part.


Unffortunately, AFAIK (haven't dvelved into this problem much – with JasJar, the available RAM memory is around the same AFAIK), nothing can be done to combat this – the situation is the same with other WM5 devices. WM5 comsumes much more RAM to keep itself in than previous WM/PPC versions. (Again, I may be wrong.) This greatly reduces the usability of 64M RAM devices if you want to keep more than a handful web pages open in a multitabbed browser plug-in like MultiIE or do some other, memory-intensive task like working with large(r) images/running some memory-intensive games.

Of the 256 MB of Flash ROM on the X51v, 190 MB is available to the end user. This is simply awesome. This will allow users to cram their Pocket PC full of applications without needing a storage card. Windows Mobile 5 takes up around 66 MB of ROM, which is a big jump from previous versions. There's a good reason for this, however: my understanding is that each application now has some "slack space" for updates.

Yup, it (or something like this) must be the reason for this being 66M – 30M more than the core, working WM5. Another reason must be the add-on Dell programs (like the Odyssey client (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=43033)). The WM5 operating system core only takes 36 Mbytes.

The 13.5 hours of the X51v is very impressive

It is! Much as I haven't directly measured the CPU usage (the highest contributor – as opposed to sound volume - to the battery consumption) of the Spb sound generator engine (most MP3 player applications consume between 8% and 30% CPU cycles at 520 MHz; if Spn consumes far less, then, its results can't be compared to those of real-world players), but 13 hours is almost as good as that of the iPAQ hx4700 or the Fujitsu-Siemens Pocket Loox 720 with current players – that is, very good.

Dell also switched Bluetooth stacks from Broadcomm to Microsoft's own stack... it's a shame Microsoft's Bluetooth stack is still so lacking when compared to what Broadcomm offers.

Ouch :( Hope the Widcomm BT stack can be hacked on the device, though – as with on the Jam.

My delight turned to disbelief, then anger as I saw what ActiveSync was doing: it duplicated 900 contacts, 50 emails, and 6 months worth of appointments! No warning, no "Replace, Remove, or Combine" dialogue box, simply a duplication. It will take me hours to fix this manually, unless I can find a tool to remove duplicates. I have memories of such a tool, but at this point I haven't had time to track one down. Any suggestions for one that will work with Outlook 2003 and an Exchange server?

There're several WinCE database duplication removers; for example, WebIS Toolbox 3.0 (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42955) or (it's not as sophisticated as the WebIS app in this respect!) SKTools (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=360617). They only delete duplicated records on the PDA; however, this may help. You may also want to consider manual record export/import instead of the initial synchornization (which results in the duplication) with SKTools (XML export/import, easy to modify) or Pocket dbExplorer (CSV/TSV export, which is directly importable to Outlook/Exchange Server (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17393)).

Figure 4: This is the score that really looks for bad for the Windows Mobile 5 devices, and where reality and the benchmarks diverge. According to this benchmark, the X51v is almost ten times slower than the X50v at file operations. But in day to day use with Calender and Contact manipulations, the X51v feels nearly the same as the X50v. I think this is an instance where Spb Benchmark may have to come up with new tests more appropriate for Windows Mobile 5 devices.

I'd really want to see PIE/NetFront cache speed tests (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,42768&amp;/want_to_tweak_how_pocket_internet_explorer_uses_the_cache.htm) or tests with SMS applications like SimpleSMS, which is almost useless in pre-WM5 op. systems when run from outside RAM (http://pocketpcmag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17757). Alex_kac, developer of PI, has mentioned many times that WM5 has a much better caching/ delayed writing method to speed up operations like these (which create tons of new files) considerably – I'd still want to know whether it's worth relocating the cache (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,42768&amp;/want_to_tweak_how_pocket_internet_explorer_uses_the_cache.htm).

[Menneisyys]

Because Windows Mobile 5 devices don't need to power the RAM when the device is in suspend mode, my first thought was that the standby power drain would be much less. I fully charged the X50v and X51v, hard reset them, and let them sit. I powered up each to check the battery level several times, and after 52 hours of standby the battery level on the X50v was at 90% while the battery level of the X51v was at 89% - essentially the same battery level. So much for that theory!


This is wrong. WM5 still need to power the ROM all time. You get more power from WM5 from another reason, the lack of the 72 hour rule on WM5.

Check this link

http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/09/wm5-will-give-you-at-least-25-of.html

Yes, you must explicitly shut down the device so that it's really turned off. If you do this, the battery will still stay at around 100% after 52 hours and not at 90% (the self-discharging of Li-Ion/Poly batteries is some percents in a month - less than half that of nickel-based batteries - see this article (http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5.htm).)

[ctitanic]

Yes, you must explicitly shut down the device so that it's really turned off. If you do this, the battery will still stay at around 100% after 52 hours and not at 90% (the self-discharging of Li-Ion/Poly batteries is some percents in a month - less than half that of nickel-based batteries - see this article (http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5.htm).)

what do you mean by Yes?

***excessive quoting deleted by mode JD***

[Menneisyys]

what do you mean by Yes?

I've referred to your post :) I've meant you're right - unless you don't completely shut down the device, it'll only be suspended, which will result in the same power consumption (the 1% difference - that is, 10% if projected to the entire charge range - is because of the lack of the final, 72-hour-long safety zone) than with pre-WM5 devices with the same hardware.

***excessive quoting deleted by moderator JD***

[ctitanic]

got it! :D

[Menneisyys]

mobiletechreview (http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Dell-Axim-X51v.htm) has also published their review. Some interesting quotes:

Battery life:

"That said, battery life is average for a Pocket PC, giving about 3 hours and 15 minutes of actual use in average conditions consisting of PIM use, working with MS Office documents, surfing the web for an hour using WiFi, gaming for 45 minutes and playing a few short videos. If you need more power, Dell sells an optional 2200 mAh battery which will increase the thickness of the PDA. If you're a heavy wireless user, you may want to consider this extended battery or a second standard battery. In our video test, the X51v used 43% of its charge playing a 1 hour 20 minute film using Windows Media Player 10. Brightness was set at 66%, WM10 was set to stretch video to full screen and we had sound piped out through stereo earbud headphones." - Well, the WMV runtime results aren't at all good. Of course, with TCPMP (http://tcpmp.corecodec.org/download), running the device at 203 MHz, it'll be much better. In addition, I wonder if the BT unit is still as heavy on batteries as in the x50v (as opposed to the iPAQ's/PL720)?


Screen:

"The 3.7" LCD is sharp and bright. Text is clear even at the smallest type settings. While not stunningly vivid like the iPAQ hx4700, the screen is still very good and will please those who want to view photos or videos. "

BT:

"Unlike the X50 line, the X51v uses Microsoft's Bluetooth stack rather than Broadcom's excellent Bluetooth drivers and software. Microsoft's Bluetooth software lacks Broadcom's user friendly wizard, but still gets the job done. The device supports standard profiles such as OBEX, DUN, serial port and headset. " - no word of Hi-Fi headsets, PAN (which is very important with tons of usage areas like sharing your internet connection on one of your PDA's (http://pocketpcmag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18121), short-distance chatting/file sending/messageboards (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=344212) or short-distance multiplayer games like Explode Arena (http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=2869)) or compatibility with the StowAway BT keyboard (the lack of it is a showstopper for anyone using the keyboard!)


EDIT: some new links/areas of using BT PAN have been added

[ctitanic]

got it! :D

[Menneisyys]

OFFTOPIC: your 'got it' post have been doubled when I edited my post 2 or 3 times. Strange, must be a phpBB bug.

[Stephen Beesley]

"Unlike the X50 line, the X51v uses Microsoft's Bluetooth stack rather than Broadcom's excellent Bluetooth drivers and software. Microsoft's Bluetooth software lacks ...or compatibility with the StowAway BT keyboard (the lack of it is a showstopper for anyone using the keyboard!)[/i]

Wow, that really is a showstopper!

I have been holding off on buying an Axim x50v waiting for the x51v, but not being able to use my Stowaway keyboard (or mouse I presume) would be a disaster.

Definately no deal if that is the case. Hopefully Dell Oz will not be selling the x51v for a little while and might even have a nice run-out deal on the x50v.... :D

[Menneisyys]

Let's hope someone manages to hack the Widcom BT stack on this device. Otherwise, it's a no-go for me too.

EDIT: if the x50v upgrade will also have a MS BT stack, I definitely won't get the x50v (now that the PL720 WM5 upgrade is delayed and I need a VGA WM5 device for testing/2nd VGA device purposes) either.

[ctitanic]

OFFTOPIC: your 'got it' post have been doubled when I edited my post 2 or 3 times. Strange, must be a phpBB bug.

You got it again!

BTW, about the benchmark.

It seems to me that part of it is like comparing applets with grapes. The SPB Benchmark bases it's index or whatever it's called in a series of parameters, and a big part of them involve read and write operations. In a PPC with WM2003SE these operations are done in RAM and in WM5 these operations are done in ROM reason why the x51v is seen like slower than the X50v. You wont find any WM5 machine faster than a WM2003 if you use that same SPB Benchmark to measure both machines. But... the same Jason says...

Although many of the Spb Benchmark results indicate the X51v is dog-slow compared to the X50v, when loaded up with all my data, I didn't find that the X51v felt slow very often at all. Certain actions felt "Flash ROM slow" - drawing icons in the games folder for instance - but in most cases I was pleased with the speed of the X51v.

The reason why in general, WM5 in the Dell X51v as well as in the Jasjar does not felt slow is due to the fact that part of the OS is copied to RAM from where it's executed, that explains why the end users does not get 64 MB of RAM free. You wont felt the OS slow but you will felt the hit in some of your own applications installed in ROM.

[ctitanic]

"Unlike the X50 line, the X51v uses Microsoft's Bluetooth stack rather than Broadcom's excellent Bluetooth drivers and software. Microsoft's Bluetooth software lacks ...or compatibility with the StowAway BT keyboard (the lack of it is a showstopper for anyone using the keyboard!)[/i]

Wow, that really is a showstopper!

I have been holding off on buying an Axim x50v waiting for the x51v, but not being able to use my Stowaway keyboard (or mouse I presume) would be a disaster.

Definately no deal if that is the case. Hopefully Dell Oz will not be selling the x51v for a little while and might even have a nice run-out deal on the x50v.... :D

May be that driver for WM5 is what is holding other from realising the upgrade ;)

[Pixelnose]

There's something else bad about that MS BT stack - if it's anything like how it's implemented in the iMate Jam then users will not be able to bluetooth-sync to their Macs. I had to get the hack in order for it to work.

Things are looking grim for bothering with WM5 devices. :(

[manywhere]

OFFTOPIC: your 'got it' post have been doubled when I edited my post 2 or 3 times. Strange, must be a phpBB bug.
&lt;OffTopic> phpBB bug number 2 (?) :

http://www.filips.net/images/SuperSmilies.png
You got sandwiched with the posts from Cititanic - I got "super smilies" when viewing that page (nope, not photomanipulated by me)! :lol: I hope this "bug" has nothing to do with my widescreen to do... :worried:

&lt;/OffTopic>

Jason, could you take up the issue with the ehum, inferority of Microsoft's Bluetooth Stack somehow when you are at the MVP meeting (if possible and if you have the time). My PC has got the Microsoft stack and it is just too hard to use since they've been oversimplyfying the GUI from the looks of it. From what I've been able to tell from the Pocket PC emulators, the same issue is there with the Microsoft Bluetooth stack and I wouldn't trade in my Pocket Loox 720's Broadcom Bluetooth stack for theirs anytime soon (read:never, ever!).

I don't know if Broadcom is manufacturing their Bluetooth stack anymore, since I've seen only their Bluetooth hardware being produced as of lately. I thought the Broadcom stack was much better on the GUI side as well as the features included by standard, although configuration their stack was tedious and required some registry hacking some times to get things working the right way. Microsoft could do a bit more of usability testing on the GUI and otherwise improve the features included in the stack. For example, the network profile is still missing form the Microsoft stack.

I'm sure MS could make a Bluetooth stack that doesn't stink as much as it is doing right now. The only thing they probably need is time... ;)

[DaleReeck]

The complete crappiness of activesh*t, er, ActiveSync 4.0 never ceases to amaze me. No sync via WiFi, no ability to customize specific contact info (it's all or nothing), no indication of what AS is going to do to your data (still - it just goes ahead and does it, even if it destroys your Exchange info) and no ability to manually sync (must always "continuous" sync). All this for the low, low price of breaking most current conduit based software. Yeah, all these great new "features" were worth that price :evil:

It's like MS dumbed down AS even more to satisfy new, inexperienced PDA users while the more expereinced ones who like some control over their syncing can go bugger themselves.

IMO, the usefulness of persistent storage came at too high a price in regards to just about every other feature of WM5/AS 4.0.

[DaleReeck]

[quote=Menneisyys]I wouldn't trade in my Pocket Loox 720's Broadcom Bluetooth stack for theirs anytime soon (read:never, ever!).


Not to mention that the MS stack in WM5 still doesn't support the advanced audio profiles for stereo bluetooth headsets. How long is MS going to continue to ignore that?

[Snobosh]

"I assumed that meant it was automatic, but after fighting with Connection Manager on the X51v for 15 minutes I gave up and disconnected. I turned on WiFi, and the X51v saw my access point - I entered my WEP key, started ActiveSync, and clicked sync. It worked! Within a few minutes I had all my data on the X51v - but why wouldn't the synchronization work in the cradle? I have no idea, but it's a serious problem."

Does this mean you used wifi to activesync? Therefore, the restriction is no longer present in AS4? If they have decided to allow wifi AS, then I will probably update to WM5 and AS4, if not then I probably won".

Thanks for a trenchant review!!

[beecher]

He was syncing against Exchange server...

[Stephen Beesley]

...and no ability to manually sync (must always "continuous" sync)...

Well that added to the lack of wifi sync and internet pass through (or so it seems from Jason's review) is really turning me off WM5 and AS 4 in a real hurry!

[Tye]

"Unlike the X50 line, the X51v uses Microsoft's Bluetooth stack rather than Broadcom's excellent Bluetooth drivers and software. Microsoft's Bluetooth software lacks ...or compatibility with the StowAway BT keyboard (the lack of it is a showstopper for anyone using the keyboard!)[/i]

Wow, that really is a showstopper!

I have been holding off on buying an Axim x50v waiting for the x51v, but not being able to use my Stowaway keyboard (or mouse I presume) would be a disaster.

Definately no deal if that is the case. Hopefully Dell Oz will not be selling the x51v for a little while and might even have a nice run-out deal on the x50v.... :D

Regarding the BT keyboard, wouldn't Dell want to make sure that their Think Outside rebranded keyboard works with the x51v? Not saying anyone is wrong about the info, I'm just very surprised.

[Jason Dunn]

This is wrong. WM5 still need to power the RAM all time. You get more power from WM5 from another reason, the lack of the 72 hour rule on WM5. Check this link...

That article doesn't mention anything about Windows Mobile 5 having to power the RAM all the time. I know about the moving of the low battery warning, but I thought that Windows Mobile 5 also didn't need to power the RAM. I'll try and get in touch with Mike to get an explanation.

[Jason Dunn]

Does this mean you used wifi to activesync? Therefore, the restriction is no longer present in AS4? If they have decided to allow wifi AS, then I will probably update to WM5 and AS4, if not then I probably wont

It only worked because I was synching against an Exchange server. You still can't sync against your PC over WiFi. :evil:

[Jason Dunn]

EDIT: if the x50v upgrade will also have a MS BT stack, I definitely won't get the x50v (now that the PL720 WM5 upgrade is delayed and I need a VGA WM5 device for testing/2nd VGA device purposes) either.

I'm 99.999% sure if will have the same BT stack as the X51v.

[Jason Dunn]

Thanks for a trenchant review!!

You're welcome. I had to look up what "trenchant" meant - I've never come across that word before. ;-)

[Jason Lee]

This is wrong. WM5 still need to power the RAM all time. You get more power from WM5 from another reason, the lack of the 72 hour rule on WM5. Check this link...

That article doesn't mention anything about Windows Mobile 5 having to power the RAM all the time. I know about the moving of the low battery warning, but I thought that Windows Mobile 5 also didn't need to power the RAM. I'll try and get in touch with Mike to get an explanation.

When you push the power button on your x51v it does not go off. It just goes to sleep, just like devices now. So everything you are currently running is still in ram. If you don't keep power to the ram it would all be lost. It would be the same as your pc loosing all the contents of ram everytime the screen saver kicked in. 8O

If you can get WM5.0 to shutdown completely then it will not need to power the ram. But it will have to boot up everytime you turn it on. just like a soft reset everytime you want to use the device. However i don't think there is a way to actually get a WM5.0 to shutdown. Besides taking the battery out. I do not believe that option is avaible via the default ui. There may be some kinda of system command to shutdown that some one could write an app for though.

[Jason Lee]

With regaurd to activesync and not being able to customize what gets synced ei. the past 52 weeks and all future appts or all task. I believe you can change those setting from activesync on the pocket pc itself not from the pc and AS 4. Jason, can you, or anyone with a WM5.0 device check this? I don't have one but i believe this is how you change those settings.

[adamz]

If you can get WM5.0 to shutdown completely then it will not need to power the ram. But it will have to boot up everytime you turn it on. just like a soft reset everytime you want to use the device. However i don't think there is a way to actually get a WM5.0 to shutdown. Besides taking the battery out. I do not believe that option is avaible via the default ui. There may be some kinda of system command to shutdown that some one could write an app for though.

There is a way. In the Power Control Panel... there's a tab to assign the press+hold power button function to "Full power off"

Here's a screen shot from the Pocketnow review (http://pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&amp;t=reviews&amp;id=697)
http://www.pocketnow.com/html/portal/reviews/0000000697/review/Dellx530.jpg

A notification comes up asking you to confirm the full power down.

[whydidnt]

The best Outlook Duplicates Remover I have found can be downloaded here:
http://www.slipstick.com/files/ODR5.EXE

It's a little program developed by a priest in the UK for his own use. He decided it was easier to write the program than delete all of his duplicated entries. The program is Prayerware, in that he in lieu of payment he asks that you say a prayer.

I can vouch for it. I've had to use it several times to clean up after ActiveStync. It has always worked flawlessly. MS has never really managed to get AS right after a hard reset and restore, at least for me.

[dorelse]

Cons:
Battery life still lacking;
Uneven performance;
Windows Mobile 5 buggy;
No hardware enhancements for Windows Mobile 5 softkeys;
Ghastly 3rd party software install.


Jason -

I'm not sure its really fair to list WM5 issues as a Con for a Device review...Dell's device has nothing to due with the impacts of WM 5 being buggy, and the x51v may not be responsible for its its uneven performance either.

To be fair, you would need to list those as Cons for ALL WM5 based devices. Just a thought.

[fmcpherson]

I thought Arne Hess wrote an article a few months back where he tested the Stowaway keyboard with the Microsoft BT stack that comes with WM5 and found that it works. I think you can use the Stowaway keyboard with a WM5 device without any extra software from Thinkoutside. Just pair up the two. You probably won't be able to use any extra features, but at least you can use the keyboard to type.

[Menneisyys]

I thought Arne Hess wrote an article a few months back where he tested the Stowaway keyboard with the Microsoft BT stack that comes with WM5 and found that it works. I think you can use the Stowaway keyboard with a WM5 device without any extra software from Thinkoutside. Just pair up the two. You probably won't be able to use any extra features, but at least you can use the keyboard to type.

That's great news! Thanks!

[Jason Dunn]

When you push the power button on your x51v it does not go off. It just goes to sleep, just like devices now. So everything you are currently running is still in ram. If you don't keep power to the ram it would all be lost. It would be the same as your pc loosing all the contents of ram everytime the screen saver kicked in. 8O

Yes, I know that, but I thought that it would go into a lower power mode than what Pocket PC 2003 SE required. My experiment proved that wasn't the case. Sorry I mentioned it. ;-)

[Jason Lee]

There is a way. In the Power Control Panel... there's a tab to assign the press+hold power button function to "Full power off"


A notification comes up asking you to confirm the full power down.

hehe yeah I just saw that and was gonna post it. :) Very cool!

[Jason Dunn]

I'm not sure its really fair to list WM5 issues as a Con for a Device review...Dell's device has nothing to due with the impacts of WM 5 being buggy, and the x51v may not be responsible for its its uneven performance either. To be fair, you would need to list those as Cons for ALL WM5 based devices. Just a thought.

An interesting point. Windows Mobile 5, for better or worse, is part of the experience in using the X51v. You can't separate the device from the software and use something else, so the software is as much a part of the X51v as the screen or buttons are. I also focused more on the software than normal because the hardware was nearly identical to the X50v - I needed something to talk about. ;-)

[dorelse]

True, I'm just trying to save you from having to put WM5 Cons on every device review you do over the next few months.

Its the same as detracting from an HP laptop b/c WinXP crashes (which I'm sure never happens to anyone but me). Its not HP's fault M$ put out some bad code, just as its not Dell's fault WM5 has issues.

But don't worry, I'll be sure to remind the reviewers as they post them. :mrgreen:

[Jason Dunn]

With regaurd to activesync and not being able to customize what gets synced ei. the past 52 weeks and all future appts or all task. I believe you can change those setting from activesync on the pocket pc itself not from the pc and AS 4.

Sure, I can change this - in fact, that's how I managed to get six months of appointments onto the Pocket PC that ACTIVESYNC THEN DUPLICATED. AUGH!!!

I'm synching against an Exchange server though, which may change things.

[Jason Dunn]

True, I'm just trying to save you from having to put WM5 Cons on every device review you do over the next few months. Its the same as detracting from an HP laptop b/c WinXP crashes (which I'm sure never happens to anyone but me). Its not HP's fault M$ put out some bad code, just as its not Dell's fault WM5 has issues.

Ok, let me try again. I've edited one of the cons to be more specific - I was mostly concerned with the sluggish 2D screen redraws when I said "uneven performance". The fact that Windows Mobile 5 is buggy is a factor for anyone considering buying the device, regardless of who's "fault" it is.

If HP ships a laptop that crashes right out of the box, they ABSOLUTELY deserve some blame for that. They're the ones that pick the drivers and assemble their custom version of Windows XP. And if Microsoft gives them crappy code, they shouldn't foist that bad code onto their own customers - HP made the decision to ship their laptop with software that will give their customers a bad user experience.

It's no different here, but it may be that when Jon reviews that Jasjar he doesn't run into the same problems, or isn't bothered by the same things I was. That does make my review any less valid, nor his. After all, a review is just an opinion. :wink:

[jickbahtech]

I thought WM5 was supposed to use standard HID drivers, so ANY BT keyboard would word regardless.

[ADBrown]

Jason, regarding the battery life, performance and stability... I'm not sure if you've heard this, but late yesterday afternoon Dell informed us that they had just discovered that the majority of the X51v review units that they had sent out were improperly flashed, resulting in bugs, fast battery draining, and lockups. FYI.

[dorelse]

Ok, let me try again. I've edited one of the cons to be more specific - I was mostly concerned with the sluggish 2D screen redraws when I said "uneven performance". The fact that Windows Mobile 5 is buggy is a factor for anyone considering buying the device, regardless of who's "fault" it is.

If HP ships a laptop that crashes right out of the box, they ABSOLUTELY deserve some blame for that. They're the ones that pick the drivers and assemble their custom version of Windows XP. And if Microsoft gives them crappy code, they shouldn't foist that bad code onto their own customers - HP made the decision to ship their laptop with software that will give their customers a bad user experience.

It's no different here, but it may be that when Jon reviews that Jasjar he doesn't run into the same problems, or isn't bothered by the same things I was. That does make my review any less valid, nor his. After all, a review is just an opinion. :wink:

I agree with you 100% on all counts. I wasn't trying to be harsh about it, and hope you didn't take it that way. I was just saying that since this is a hardware focused review, and WM 5 seems to have issues, it would be nice to separate the 2 so that its clear that the issues aren't necessarily specific to Dells device.

However, if it is caused by Dell's ROM, then I say Wail away. :rock on dude!:

[robert_biggs]

The reason why in general, WM5 in the Dell X51v as well as in the Jasjar does not felt slow is due to the fact that part of the OS is copied to RAM from where it's executed, that explains why the end users does not get 64 MB of RAM free. You wont felt the OS slow but you will felt the hit in some of your own applications installed in ROM.

This is true. If you read over the the X51 Owner's Manual you will notice that the X51 uses NAND Flash ROM instead of the StrataFlash ROM the X50 used. StrataFlash ROM allows programs in ROM to be executed in-place, meaning they do not need to be copied over to RAM in order to run. NAND ROM requires programs to first be copied to RAM. The X51 must have a portion of its RAM that is reserved for PIM and other OS applications to always be running, so that the device will not feel slower than previous WM2003 models when in comes to running core applications. All other applications installed to the X51's ROM will probably experience a lag when loading as the app is copied over to RAM.

There are a few reasons Dell would switch from offering StrataFlash to NAND Flash ROM. First, NAND is a lot cheaper than StrataFlash, which is why the X51v can offer 256MB as opposed to the x50v's 128MB and still cost the same price. Second, NAND is faster to write data than StrataFlash, so programs will install and new data can be stored quicker. And last, WM5 is designed to treat ROM more like a hard-drive. Having all applications copy over to RAM to execute is the way the OS was designed to operate. It makes PPCs run more like a desktop. Plus, memory cards use NAND Flash as well, so programs installed in ROM will operate the same as programs installed to a memory card.

For more information on StrataFlash and NAND Flash ROM see Mike Calligaro's article (http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/08/19/453784.aspx) and this post by Ed Hansberry in 2002 (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,5227&amp;sid=c786568710765bd2287db57f0b47c135).

[robert_biggs]

When you push the power button on your x51v it does not go off. It just goes to sleep, just like devices now. So everything you are currently running is still in ram. If you don't keep power to the ram it would all be lost. It would be the same as your pc loosing all the contents of ram everytime the screen saver kicked in. 8O

If you can get WM5.0 to shutdown completely then it will not need to power the ram. But it will have to boot up everytime you turn it on. just like a soft reset everytime you want to use the device.

This was my understanding of how WM5 works as well. By default, it will operate the same as WM2003, where turning the power off still keeps everything stored in RAM so that turning the device back on gets you instantly back to where you were when you last turned it off. If you are not going to use the device for an extended period of time, you have the option of fully powering down so the battery isn't draining, but you will have to go through a full boot-up when you turn it back on.

[whydidnt]

The reason why in general, WM5 in the Dell X51v as well as in the Jasjar does not felt slow is due to the fact that part of the OS is copied to RAM from where it's executed, that explains why the end users does not get 64 MB of RAM free. You wont felt the OS slow but you will felt the hit in some of your own applications installed in ROM.

I understand this, but it seems like the OS is taking up twice as much RAM space as it used to. All WM5 devices seem to have 16 MB of RAM reserved (for what? - nobody is saying), then after a reset, another 18-19 MB of RAM is used up - I assume the OS has been loaded into RAM and that's what it is occupying. However, this doesn't seem to explain why 16 MB is already reserved. Has anyone seen an explanation of this?

I can see a lot of consumers hollering about the fact their advertised 64 MB device only shows 47.93 MB of RAM available (including me). Didn't Viewsonic have to deal with this very issue just a few years ago with their first PPC? This would be like Dell selling a PC with 512 MB of RAM and before booting the OS having the system report only 384 MB of RAM available for the OS and other programs to run in. Why is this acceptable?

[robert_biggs]

All WM5 devices seem to have 16 MB of RAM reserved (for what? - nobody is saying), then after a reset, another 18-19 MB of RAM is used up - I assume the OS has been loaded into RAM and that's what it is occupying. However, this doesn't seem to explain why 16 MB is already reserved. Has anyone seen an explanation of this?

The iPAQ h1910 had this same issue because it used NAND Flash ROM as well. Every WM2003 (and most PPC2002) device I know of used StrataFlash ROM which allowed for all applications in ROM (including OS apps) to execute in place. I'm sure there is additional "overhead" that apps require, which is why WM2003 devices still showed some RAM being used after a soft-reset. So the 16 MB is probably reserved for the OS apps to be running and the 18-19 MB showing as available but used is other applications that the OEM installed that are running at startup, plus any "overhead" the core OS apps are using. This is just my guess, but makes sense.

[robert_biggs]

As a side note to those who were hoping this model would include a built-in microdrive like Palm's LifeDrive, I'm glad Dell decided to just increase ROM and not include an actual hard-drive.

We have become custom to having our handhelds respond almost instantaneously to loading data and running programs. If the x51v had a hard-drive, the device would almost certainly run a lot slower. Just look at the complaints of LifeDrive owners who have to wait at least several seconds longer for programs to load or fetch data. ROM is very much faster than any microdrive currently on the market.

Having 256MB of ROM gives users enough room to install almost all their current programs. And if you need additional room for multimedia files, maps, or larger programs, you have dual slots to add a 2GB SD and a 4GB CF card (with higher capacities available soon). SD and CF cards use the same type of memory structure as the X51's ROM, so data or programs stored there will read and write much faster than a hard-drive as well.

Plus, a hard-drive would severely limit battery life and create heat as well as a moveable part that could break. So I think Dell made a wise decision to not incorporate a hard-drive into their PPCs at this time. Flash-based memory is the future of mobile computing as was made evident by the introduction of Apple's iPod Nano.

[Jason Lee]

As a side note to those who were hoping this model would include a built-in microdrive like Palm's LifeDrive, I'm glad Dell decided to just increase ROM and not include an actual hard-drive.

We have become custom to having our handhelds respond almost instantaneously to loading data and running programs. If the x51v had a hard-drive, the device would almost certainly run a lot slower. Just look at the complaints of LifeDrive owners who have to wait at least several seconds longer for programs to load or fetch data. ROM is very much faster than any microdrive currently on the market.

Having 256MB of ROM gives users enough room to install almost all their current programs. And if you need additional room for multimedia files, maps, or larger programs, you have dual slots to add a 2GB SD and a 4GB CF card (with higher capacities available soon). SD and CF cards use the same type of memory structure as the X51's ROM, so data or programs stored there will read and write much faster than a hard-drive as well.

Plus, a hard-drive would severely limit battery life and create heat as well as a moveable part that could break. So I think Dell made a wise decision to not incorporate a hard-drive into their PPCs at this time. Flash-based memory is the future of mobile computing as was made evident by the introduction of Apple's iPod Nano.

100% agree. :) if I want one i'll add it via cf

[andbrown]

I wanted to make a couple of points here (Jason and I are trying to troubleshoot this already):

1.) When setting up Exchange ActiveSync on a WM 5 device, there is by default a warning that, if synced data is detected on the device, gives you the recommended option to delete the previous data before syncing against the server for the first time. You do have the option to keep your data, but there is an explicit warning that duplicates will likely occur if you do so. This prompt occurs on the device itself, regardless of how you are connecting, and is designed to prevent the scenario Jason encountered. I've set up EAS on a WM 5 device many times and never seen this issue because I've always had it delete the existing data and immediately replace it directly from the server. What is unclear is why this prompt didn't occur on Jason's device.

2.) I use desktop passthrough to sync while connected to my PC via USB, so it is still there in AS 4.0/WM 5.

I have not used the Dell backup/restore tool in conjunction with Exchange ActiveSync on WM 5, and there may be an odd interaction there. I think this device also probably has a pre-production ROM, which could have introduced issues as well. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't a rush to judgement on WM 5 based on what I believe may well be a one-off issue.

[whydidnt]

I have not used the Dell backup/restore tool in conjunction with Exchange ActiveSync on WM 5, and there may be an odd interaction there. I think this device also probably has a pre-production ROM, which could have introduced issues as well. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't a rush to judgement on WM 5 based on what I believe may well be a one-off issue.

Thank you for providing this update, it's very good to hear. What I'd really like to hear though is MS reasoning in completely neutering ActiveSync at version 4 and above. This is an upgrade?

[ctitanic]

If you can get WM5.0 to shutdown completely then it will not need to power the ram. But it will have to boot up everytime you turn it on. just like a soft reset everytime you want to use the device. However i don't think there is a way to actually get a WM5.0 to shutdown. Besides taking the battery out. I do not believe that option is avaible via the default ui. There may be some kinda of system command to shutdown that some one could write an app for though.

There is a way. In the Power Control Panel... there's a tab to assign the press+hold power button function to "Full power off"

Here's a screen shot from the Pocketnow review (http://pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&amp;t=reviews&amp;id=697)
http://www.pocketnow.com/html/portal/reviews/0000000697/review/Dellx530.jpg

A notification comes up asking you to confirm the full power down.

Jason, Adamz has mentioned the power applet where a Power Off was implemented. Dell warns users about the lost of no saved data when that option is used but it never warns about what is going to happen with clock events such as alarm, reminders, etc. Do they still waking up the device? I doubt it. But it seems to me that they should have warned users about this point.

Another question about this option, is the system clock kept time synchronized when the device is powered off?

[Mark Johnson]

...it retains all of the strong points of the X50v... ...dual slots

I'd love to see a poll: "Would you prefer an incrementally smaller PPC without a CF slot?"

There are two camps out there, and as an SD-Card-carrying member of the "thinner is better" union, I'd rather not read these "everybody knows it true that CF is always a good thing" phrased statements.

The only possible use I've thought of for the CF card slot on my x50v was as a place to store another SD card if I wanted to bother to dremmel out the blank. Then I realised "what's the point? My SD card has plenty of space, and it's cheap to get a bigger one if I needed that." The "standard" CF slot, IMHO, has LONG outlived any real need for it.

[pjerry220]

The $499 is a great price and power for someone who is just starting with an Ipaq. The warranty and accidental warranty is great.

That 256 MB ROM makes me want to switch.

[Patrick Y.]

Ooo.. I can't believe I read all 7 pages of comments. Anyway, does x51v has Voice Command? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere.

[Jason Lee]

Jason, Adamz has mentioned the power applet where a Power Off was implemented. Dell warns users about the lost of no saved data when that option is used but it never warns about what is going to happen with clock events such as alarm, reminders, etc. Do they still waking up the device? I doubt it. But it seems to me that they should have warned users about this point.

Another question about this option, is the system clock kept time synchronized when the device is powered off?

The reminders and alarms will not wake the device up. i would also assume that when you turn the device back on it will have the exact same time as when you turn it off. however it wouldn't be to difficult to keep just enough power for the clock but i don't think that's how it works. someone try it! :) shut it all the way down overnight and see what time it is in the morning when you boot it back up.

[Steven Cedrone]

Jason, Adamz has mentioned the power applet where a Power Off was implemented. Dell warns users about the lost of no saved data when that option is used but it never warns about what is going to happen with clock events such as alarm, reminders, etc. Do they still waking up the device? I doubt it. But it seems to me that they should have warned users about this point.

Another question about this option, is the system clock kept time synchronized when the device is powered off?

The reminders and alarms will not wake the device up. i would also assume that when you turn the device back on it will have the exact same time as when you turn it off. however it wouldn't be to difficult to keep just enough power for the clock but i don't think that's how it works. someone try it! :) shut it all the way down overnight and see what time it is in the morning when you boot it back up.

I would definitely be interested in hearing the results of this test. Also, I guess this would mean the device would not wake at midnight as well?

[ctitanic]

Jason, Adamz has mentioned the power applet where a Power Off was implemented. Dell warns users about the lost of no saved data when that option is used but it never warns about what is going to happen with clock events such as alarm, reminders, etc. Do they still waking up the device? I doubt it. But it seems to me that they should have warned users about this point.

Another question about this option, is the system clock kept time synchronized when the device is powered off?

The reminders and alarms will not wake the device up. i would also assume that when you turn the device back on it will have the exact same time as when you turn it off. however it wouldn't be to difficult to keep just enough power for the clock but i don't think that's how it works. someone try it! :) shut it all the way down overnight and see what time it is in the morning when you boot it back up.

According to Adamz

Nothing wakes up the device when it's in a complete power-off state. The clock is updated to the correct time though.
When you invoke a full power-off, a notification appears saying:

"The Axim will fully power off. All unsaved data will be lost. In this state, the Alarm settings will be ineffective and ONLY the Power button can be used to wake up your Axim. Do you want to proceed?"

So yes.. users are warned every time they invoke the Full Power Off function.


So the clock still "alive" and it will drain a little bit the battery but no too much to be considered.

Anyway, I have to say is "Bravo Dell" (Dell has been the first one to include such feature using fully the capabilities of this new OS WM5)

http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/09/real-power-off-has-arrived.html

[Darius Wey]

Ooo.. I can't believe I read all 7 pages of comments. Anyway, does x51v has Voice Command? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere.

As far as I'm aware, it doesn't. If you want Voice Command on the device, you'll have to purchase it separately and install it.

[Patrick Y.]

Ooo.. I can't believe I read all 7 pages of comments. Anyway, does x51v has Voice Command? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere.

As far as I'm aware, it doesn't. If you want Voice Command on the device, you'll have to purchase it separately and install it.

Why can't dell just include voice command in their WM 5 upgrade? After all, it is one of the most anticipated enhancement. :( :(

[Cybrid]

As far as I'm aware, it doesn't. If you want Voice Command on the device, you'll have to purchase it separately and install it.Ya, but didn't I read in the initial reports that WM5 was going to be bundled with Voice Command?

[Jason Lee]

So the clock still "alive" and it will drain a little bit the battery but no too much to be considered.

Anyway, I have to say is "Bravo Dell" (Dell has been the first one to include such feature using fully the capabilities of this new OS WM5)

http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/09/real-power-off-has-arrived.html

This is very good news. I love the way this works. Not sure if i'll ever use it but i like it. :)

[ctitanic]

So the clock still "alive" and it will drain a little bit the battery but no too much to be considered.

Anyway, I have to say is "Bravo Dell" (Dell has been the first one to include such feature using fully the capabilities of this new OS WM5)

http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/09/real-power-off-has-arrived.html

This is very good news. I love the way this works. Not sure if i'll ever use it but i like it. :)

I agree, I wont be using it everyday but is something that give me more control over how I want to use the battery.

[erussell]

I just ordered mine on the Small Business site - 20% off with free shipping. I'm replacing my X5. Wish me luck!

[mcmuddle]

Dittos! This will be my first device. Thanks to everyone for your input and opinions, positive and otherwise, they all helped. Axim X51V, Executive BT Keyboard, Rhinoskin aluminum hardcase, extra battery, 2yr ltd warrenty, 2yr tech support, 2yr advance exchange ship date 9.30.05.
Dell Home Customer discount 20%.

I have FINALY jumped off the fence! I'll let y'all know what I land in!

[ctitanic]

Here it goes guys! These are my favorite software, the ones I have tested so far in the X51v!

http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/09/x51v-software-compatibility-list.html

[Darius Wey]

Here it goes guys! These are my favorite software, the ones I have tested so far in the X51v!

http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/09/x51v-software-compatibility-list.html

Nice list. Even now, it appears as though NetFront v3.3 is still only compatible with Windows Mobile 2003/2003SE. I can't imagine why they wouldn't support the new platform. :(

[ctitanic]

Here it goes guys! These are my favorite software, the ones I have tested so far in the X51v!

http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/09/x51v-software-compatibility-list.html

Nice list. Even now, it appears as though NetFront v3.3 is still only compatible with Windows Mobile 2003/2003SE. I can't imagine why they wouldn't support the new platform. :(

many restrictions on 3.3 and no java included. ;)

[david291]

I received my Axim X51 (520 MHz model, not the 'v' model), and can confirm that it is much slower than the X50. To me, it definitely feels slower, just from an interface responsiveness standpoint. My X51 reminds me of the firmware bug fiasco with the X5 when it first started shiipping with PPC'03, and Dell halted shipment until they had a new ROM update.

So, anyway, I've done some benchmarks that are important to us and not usually included in the standard benchmarking tests.

For example, in the area of wireless, I have a benchmark that's part of my app which sends quick data packets to a server and measures the average roundtrip time. The benchmark reports the following:

X50: 70 ms
X51: 520 ms

What's up with that?

Also important for our app is the time it takes for wireless to establish itself after the unit resumes from sleep. Here's the comparison there:

X50: 6.3 seconds typical
X51: 30-40 seconds typical

Holy crap! What is it doing for so long now? By the way, this benchmark has been getting worse with every OS. PPC 2000 it was less than 1 second, PPC'02 it was around 3 seconds, PPC'03 it went up to 6 seconds, and now this.

And lastly, I timed how long it takes my app to get cpu processing time after a resume from sleep. The results were:

X50: 0.5 seconds
X51: 5-10 seconds (don't know why it varies so much)

I sure hope these shortcomings can be fixed.

-David

[bbarker]

...it retains all of the strong points of the X50v... ...dual slots

I'd love to see a poll: "Would you prefer an incrementally smaller PPC without a CF slot?"

There are two camps out there, and as an SD-Card-carrying member of the "thinner is better" union, I'd rather not read these "everybody knows it true that CF is always a good thing" phrased statements.

The only possible use I've thought of for the CF card slot on my x50v was as a place to store another SD card if I wanted to bother to dremmel out the blank. Then I realised "what's the point? My SD card has plenty of space, and it's cheap to get a bigger one if I needed that." The "standard" CF slot, IMHO, has LONG outlived any real need for it.
I have an X50v and definitely would prefer a smaller and lighter device without a CF slot.

I can imagine some specialized applications require CF support, as do some accessories from pre-SD days (such as my 56k modem). The largest memory capacity is available only on CF. And some people may want CF for compatibility with their digital cameras. But CF no longer seems mainstream. I'd love to see a Dell X51v-style model and an HP 2700 with SD only.

[Jason Dunn]

I can imagine some specialized applications require CF support...

Yeah, like a lot of digital cameras! I think CF is needed by a lot of people, but that said, many people could get by with just a single SD, so I too would love to see a smaller version of the X51 series, something thinner, lighter, and one SD slot. Say, something like the iPAQ 4150. ;-)

[PocketPCThoughter]

I think the price of CAD$599 for X51 624MHz version is too much. How and where to get it cheapest in Canada right now, or do I have to scan the Internet everyday to wait for their discounts?

[bbarker]

I can imagine some specialized applications require CF support...

Yeah, like a lot of digital cameras!
Right, as I said in my original posting:And some people may want CF for compatibility with their digital cameras.

[Jason Dunn]

I think the price of CAD$599 for X51 624MHz version is too much. How and where to get it cheapest in Canada right now, or do I have to scan the Internet everyday to wait for their discounts?

I'd look at www.redflagdeals.ca for coupons - they published some Dell coupons today that might work. You might also want to wait for one of Dell's "10 Days of Deals".

[PocketPCThoughter]

Wait a minute, I just found out X51 doesn't have Broadcom's BT stack?! Are you kidding me, Dell? No head-set support?!

I am buying this for the specific purpose of using Skype to do VOIP with my BT headset.. psk psk psk.. :roll:

[oilisab]

so? after reading all this stuff about x50v and x51v,
wm2003 and windows mobile 5.

Do you guys at the end recommend installing wm5 to a x50v or just stick with the wm2k3 version?

[Menneisyys]

so? after reading all this stuff about x50v and x51v,
wm2003 and windows mobile 5.

Do you guys at the end recommend installing wm5 to a x50v or just stick with the wm2k3 version?

Tough question... The thread at http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=120198 is worth checking out in this respect.

[lapchinj]

I can imagine some specialized applications require CF support......so I too would love to see a smaller version of the X51 series, something thinner, lighter, and one SD slot. Say, something like the iPAQ 4150. ;-)
The 4150 was and still is my best even though I use my x50v for every day use. The only thing that the 4150 was missing was a second slot. It didn't have to be CF since I think that having 2 SD slots would still have kept it just as slim.

For me two slots is the magic setup. I carry around a ton of manuals (pdf's) and install almost all my apps to SD so that card is really static. The second card is for things like OCN5 maps, music or lectures. My 3600 and 3700 iPAQ series didn't have any cards so I used the memplug sleeves. That was a real brick that would pull your pants down - but it worked.

I think that with today's cards shrinking smaller and smaller any PDA could have two slots and keep a slim form factor. Two microSD cards would be perfect. As for accessing CF cards there should be a way of hanging a card reader off the PDA so files could be transferred or viewed.

Jeff-

[lapchinj]

...Tough question... The thread at http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=120198 is worth checking out in this respect.
Yeah I saw this and I'm still uncertain of what to do. My feelings at this point in time is that I loose nothing by waiting around for some compelling 'must have' reason to upgrade. For me the x50v is just right the way it shipped from Dell :mrgreen:

Jeff-

[huplahoi]

Can anyone confirm if the X51 is sluggish in 2D? :?:

I want to buy one for my excel documents and word documents...

[Jason Dunn]

Can anyone confirm if the X51 is sluggish in 2D? :?: I want to buy one for my excel documents and word documents...

The "sluggish" performance is really just slow screen redraws - it's not a showstopper by any means, and will not impact your use of Word and Excel. It's more of a personal opinion of mine that the user should never see screen redraws happening. ;-) I'm willing to bet you probably wouldn't notice.

[lapchinj]

...The "sluggish" performance is really just slow screen redraws - it's not a showstopper ...I'm willing to bet you probably wouldn't notice.
If the screen redraw is anything like that on the x50v why would you say that someone wouldn't notice. Most of my installed apps are like you said and I cannot notice any screen redraw. But why is it that something like PocketSlay cannot be played on my x50v. I've had other 'older' products that have never been a problem. How does anyone know how an app will react on someone's x50v or 51 without seeing a post somewhere by a user saying that the app works properly. Is there any rule of thumb to be concidered before making the plunge? What does it take by Dell to make this a non issue for the customer?

Jeff-

[Menneisyys]

But why is it that something like PocketSlay cannot be played on my x50v.

What do you mean by this? Is it slightly slower to scroll than on a QVGA device? Or, does it have much more severe problems (like Links Golf - see this (http://pocketpcmag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18016) Golf game rounup on this, strictly VGA-only problem). If yes, have you already installed the tweaked GAPI driver (http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=57128)?

(BTW, installing GAPI didn't help the slightly slower scrolling on my Pocket Loox 720 than on my iPAQ 2210. The game is, however, perfectly playable without applying the GAPI hack - unlike Links.)

[lapchinj]

What do you mean by this? Is it slightly slower to scroll than on a QVGA device? Or, does it have much more severe problems (like Links Golf ...
This is very bad. I don't know what Links Golf looks like but I shouldn't call this unplayable but rather unbearable. You can actually watch the screen redraw. I did try the tweaked driver via the URL you gave. While it was described as a replacement VGA driver for the Loox 720 I thought I would give a try (otherwise why would you have suggested it). It might have helped a little but I really think that it was just a case of wishful thinking. There have been posts on the authors site but no resolution.

Jeff-

[Menneisyys]

While it was described as a replacement VGA driver for the Loox 720 I thought I would give a try (otherwise why would you have suggested it).

Nope, it's a x50v GAPI driver, not a PL720 one.

I haven't, having no x50v, personally checked it; a lot of x50v users, however, have tested and praised it.

[Yukster]

Hi, I was wondering what version of the rom you were using for the test. Is it A01 or A03?

[Lo-Jack]

Hi all,

i have the X51v model, and i have to say it is slow, very slow. After waking the unit from standby takes forever, especially for the screen to respond to clicks.

I have played games such as Links Golf &amp; Virtual Pool Mobile 3, which surprisingly played decent enough to enjoy them.

The bluetooth stowaway keyboard works by default, headsets do not, can't seem to connect to the internet via bluetooth from the laptop :(

I had major issues until i upgraded to the A06 ROM, it has helped with crashes, and battery life, but I still have issues with the darn thing not syncing via AS4.1.....


And the duplication's is a pain in the arse........ when it does sync


anyway, if i had the chance to do it over again, i do not think i would choose this model.

Any help that could be given for resolving the BT connectivity issues would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Lo-Jack :( :( :(

[huplahoi]

I couldn't choose between an IPAQ hx2790 and a X51v. At the end I've choosen the IPAQ. Now it seems the good choice... but after 3 months I sold it on Ebay and went back to Palm. This time a palm TX... 312mhz but much faster... No pocket pc (I know this is a pocket pc forum), the philosophy of a pocket pc and a palm computer are completly different...

Pocket PC wants to put a normal computer in a small handheld. The normal computer is designed to controle with a mouse... a pocket pc also (use the stylus). The D-pad controle is nothing compared to the D-pad controle on a palm.

Palm started from scratch.... How can I organize my appointments, contacts in a easy way, and make some quick notes. Later on it looked for the possibility to view and edit office documents, which it does far more better then pocket pc... Now it has a brilliant device with wifi, BT, IR, browser, mailprogramme, brillant 320*480 screen for less then $300...

How about that.

[jeffkelly]

I have an hx4705 that I upgraded to WM5. The compaction process made my PDA unusable so I downgraded it to WM2003SE. Every 20 minutes, my CPU usage would go to 80+% for about 10 - 15 minutes.

Does the X51v suffer from the compaction process slowdown? I've heard that Dell had the same problem as HP with the WM5 upgrade (maybe the x50v?). Since the x51v comes with WM5 out of the box, I wonder if it has the same problems as upgraded PDAs -- especially since it is using the same processor.