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View Full Version : "one-hand" operation of new WM5 PPC is mostly a myth (or a marketing lie)


The PocketTV Team
08-25-2005, 07:41 AM
I found the following inconsistencies that go against MSFT's own guidelines, and prevent one-hand operation of Pocket PC with WM5 in cases where one-hand operation could have been possible:

- Some built-in applications put the menu on the left softkey (instead of the right one), e.g. Calculator.

- Some built-in applications do not use the new softkey command-bar, e.g. Help (peghelp.exe).

- Some full-screen modal dialogs with just two buttons do not use the new softkey command-bar, e.g. GetOpenFileName and GetSaveFileName.

- MessageBox buttons are not mapped on softkeys, i.e. impossible to close a MessageBox or select between Yes/No or Ok/Cancel using one-hand operation.

- In most buil-in applications, full-screen modal dialogs with just an "ok" button do not use the new softkey command-bar, e.g. it is impossible to close dialogs with one-hand operation (e.g. Word Mobile Menu > Options).

So the "one-hand" operation dogma touted by MSFT for WM5 Pocket PC is in general not possible, except in a few special cases.

Making the new Command-bar of the Pocket PC (WM5) look like that of Smartphones is just a marketting ploy (i.e. to let people think that Pocket PC Phones are in fact large Smartphones).

Even with WM5 and softkeys, it is not possible to use a Pocket PC with just one hand, like a Smartphone. For most operations and basic navigation, even without any data input, touching the screen is still necessary.

surur
08-25-2005, 08:00 AM
Thats disappointing, especially the "OK" modal dialog boxes. I guess its an improvement only vs revolution then.

Surur

The PocketTV Team
08-25-2005, 08:10 AM
> Thats disappointing, especially the "OK" modal dialog boxes. I guess its an improvement only vs revolution then.

Yes, in some cases it is nice to have softkeys mapped on the menu and on a commonly-used command.

But definitely, PPC under WM5 CANNOT be used with one hand, so the softkeys loose their biggest reason to be there, i.e. to allow one-hand operation!

If you need to use the other hand to tap on the display (e.g. to hit 'ok' to close a dialog), then the benefit of having hardware buttons for softkeys is little, compared to tapping on the screen to do the action.

I think MSFT should have done the following:

1) allow everything (except entering text) to be done with one hand (i.e. using only the softkeys and D-pad)

2) allow everything to be done by touching the screen, for people who prefer that

3) make it necessary to use the touch screen for entering text, except for devices that have a keyboard.

4) make it necessary to use the touch screen for pointing at a map, drawing a picture or other operations that really require a pointing device.

But they did not do that, and even if you never enter any text, you will need to touch the screen in order to perform most tasks on the new Pocket PC's with WM5.

Phillip Dyson
08-25-2005, 01:54 PM
While this is disappointing, I think that most of the applications I use are 3rd party. Hopefully they will get it right. (Where is the fingers crossed emoticon). It does point to the possibility that the lost real estate could be a waste though.

But the main thing I'm interested in is the persistent storage and the battery life gain. That way I may actually be confident enough to listen to music on my device.

marcol
08-25-2005, 03:45 PM
Well, if it's really as bad as all that then this ia a deal breaker for me and (despite it's limitations in other areas) I'll be sticking with the Treo 650 for the foreseeable furure. I'm not quite willing to give up on WM5 yet though. Is there an emulator somewhere I can try so I can make my own assessment?

jhennig
08-25-2005, 04:36 PM
why are you so down on wm5? Isn't mostly one-handed better than our current situation? I say who cares... its nice that they added in the new improvements which make it more easily opeational with one hand, but if you want it to be like smartphones, go buy a smartphone!

marcol
08-25-2005, 05:55 PM
why are you so down on wm5?

I wouldn't say I'm 'down on' WM5. I'm trying to decide if I want to buy it!

Isn't mostly one-handed better than our current situation?

From what The PocketTV Team is saying it doesn't look like the improvements add up to a UI that can be used extensively with one hand:

So the "one-hand" operation dogma touted by MSFT for Pocket PC with WM5 is in general not possible, except in a few special cases.

Making the new Command-bar of the Pocket PC (WM5) look like that of Smartphones is just for marketting purposes (i.e. to let people think that Pocket PC's are in fact large Smartphones).

It does not make it possible to use Pocket PC with just one hand, like a Smartphone.

I want to be able to open, use and close apps without using the stylus. As an example, let's say I turn on the device and it opens to the Today screen. From there, I might want to be able to check emails, open and read a new message (including attachments), close the attachment and then the message and move on to the next one. After reading email I might want to surf the web, navigating to bookmarked pages, reading pages, moving backwards to previous pages, refreshing the current page, etc, etc. I want to be able to do all this stuff one-handed and I don't want that to be so just for Pocket Outlook or PIE, I want one-handed operation to be the norm for the device I'm using.

This is what Microsoft has to say about WM5:

One-handed operation. Across the Windows Mobile platform, soft-key integration, landscape display orientation and QWERTY keyboard support will enable hardware partners to develop compelling devices with improved one-handed keyboard navigation that empowers customers to access their information without a stylus.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2005/may05/05-10WindowsMobile5PR.mspx

So Microsoft recognises that there is a need for one-handed operation. OK, some are quite happy using a stylus, but I'm not and I presume this makes me one of those that Microsoft is trying to attract with the new UI. Worryingly then from my point of view, The PocketTV Team's posts in this thread explicitly say that WM5 doesn't deliver the promised stylus-free operation. All I'm trying to do is work out whether this means a WM5 device is not for me. Again, does anyone know of an WM5 emulator?

I say who cares... its nice that they added in the new improvements which make it more easily opeational with one hand, but if you want it to be like smartphones, go buy a smartphone!

I do want getting data from a device to be like Smartphone, and if that's all I did with a mobile device I'd be tempted. But there's absolutely no way I'm having T9 as my means of inputing text.

jhennig
08-25-2005, 06:21 PM
Those are some nice points you brought up. I'd just like to let you know though that the task you want to do one-handed although not perfectly or exactly how you stated them are very possible. Assuming that you pay attention to settings, you would know that it is possible to set keys in WM 2003SE to functions such as close/ok, start menu, today, etc. If you set up your device right, you can minimize use of a stylus. Also, programs such as those made by resco often allow you to customize keys in program... set it up right and it's great!

surur
08-25-2005, 07:05 PM
Actually on keyboarded devices all of that should be easily possible. They all have OK keys, so any modal dialogues or settings pages should be easily closed.

Surur

marcol
08-25-2005, 07:36 PM
Those are some nice points you brought up. I'd just like to let you know though that the task you want to do one-handed although not perfectly or exactly how you stated them are very possible. Assuming that you pay attention to settings, you would know that it is possible to set keys in WM 2003SE to functions such as close/ok, start menu, today, etc. If you set up your device right, you can minimize use of a stylus. Also, programs such as those made by resco often allow you to customize keys in program... set it up right and it's great!

Thanks, jhennig. I did have a WM2003SE device (i-mate JAM) for a short time and I tried reassigning buttons and the Vito button mapping add-on but I couldn't really get it to work for me. Generally I'd get so far and then hit a step that involved using the stylus. It might be the case that I was missing something, but I really did try quite hard and couldn't get even basic funtionality without the stylus.

Phillip Dyson
08-25-2005, 07:37 PM
Between the latest SPB Plus, PocketBreeze, and ContactBreeze I can do quite a bit one-handedly. With exception of text editing of course (no built in keyboard).

I'm looking forward to even more with WM5.0

marcol
08-25-2005, 07:41 PM
Actually on keyboarded devices all of that should be easily possible. They all have OK keys, so any modal dialogues or settings pages should be easily closed.

The device that I've mostly been looking at is the Qtek 9100 (Wizard) and I can't really see myself sliding out the keyboard each time I want to press OK! Do you know if it will be possible to map OK to a button on the front? Press and hold the red phone (disconnect) key would perhaps be the most logical.

surur
08-25-2005, 08:20 PM
http://img.engadget.com/common/images/9927137581414448.JPG

My god, this thing is small. You only realize this when see in some-one's hand, using it.

Marcol, I think its probably best to just wait and see how people get on. One handed use should definitely be improved, but who knows, it may never be as good as the Treo, especially as the Treo has a keyboard thats always exposed. No one has published a comprehensive review of any WM5 devices yet. We should know in a few weeks.

Surur

The PocketTV Team
08-25-2005, 08:22 PM
> Again, does anyone know of an WM5 emulator?

There is one in the Windows Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC SDK.

You need to install Visual Basic 2005 Beta 2 and the SDK.

marcol
08-25-2005, 08:37 PM
Marcol, I think its probably best to just wait and see how people get on.

Thanks. I'm sure that's sound advice.


One handed use should definitely be improved, but who knows, it may never be as good as the Treo, especially as the Treo has a keyboard thats always exposed. No one has published a comprehensive review of any WM5 devices yet. We should know in a few weeks.

Or maybe sooner:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=362264&sid=01a0bf79a41772383af0aa0d9e38464c

:)

marcol
08-25-2005, 08:40 PM
> Again, does anyone know of an WM5 emulator?

There is one in the Windows Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC SDK.

You need to install Visual Basic 2005 Beta 2 and the SDK.

Thanks. Unfortunately I don't think our home PC will run it (it's rather old - we've moved to Macs now!).

The PocketTV Team
08-25-2005, 11:16 PM
> The PocketTV Team's posts in this thread explicitly say that WM5 doesn't deliver the promised stylus-free operation.

That's correct.

Pocket PC with WM5 requires using the stylus for many common navigation actions.

> Assuming that you pay attention to settings, you would know that it is possible to set keys in WM 2003SE to functions such as close/ok, start menu, today, etc.

I don't think that the "ok" button (for closing modal dialogs) can easiely be mapped on a hardware button, given that there are not so many hardware buttons available. The D-pad buttons are mapped on other navigation features to navigate items in the dialogs (e.g. select choices in list). The softkeys cannot be mapped (if you do, you loose the default mapping that they have when softkeys show-up in the commandbar). The application buttons are generally mapped on common apps, so mapping them on something else is not very good either.

> why are you so down on wm5?

I am just saying that as far as the new UI and so-called "one-hand operation" goes, WM5 for Pocket PC is a ***half-baked job***, and mostly a marketing ploy.

Let's hope that the WM6 version will really allow on-hand operation for everything short of entering text.

marcol
08-26-2005, 12:06 AM
http://img.engadget.com/common/images/9927137581414448.JPG

My god, this thing is small. You only realize this when see in some-one's hand, using it.

Talking of pretty pics:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/25/a701_1.jpg

Source:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/25/mio_a701_exposed/

Integrated GPS!

surur
08-26-2005, 12:15 AM
Bit more on topic, the Mio clearly has an OK button.

Surur

marcol
08-26-2005, 12:23 AM
Bit more on topic, the Mio clearly has an OK button.

Surur

Versus Wizard: OK button, faster processor, GPS (SirfStar III chipset!), but presumably no keyboard (or WiFi?)

EDIT. Also seems to have SD rather than Wizard's mini SD

The PocketTV Team
08-26-2005, 12:49 AM
Bit more on topic, the Mio clearly has an OK button.

Surur

What you call the OK button is probably the Action button (i.e. center of the Pocket PC D-pad).

On WM5 Pocket PC, the Action button is not mapped to the NavBar "ok" button that closes modal dialogs.

In general the Action button can be used to select other controls in the dialog, or to select an item in a list. The up/down D-pad can be used to navigate in lists, and the right/left buttons can be used to navigate among the various controls in a dialog, but this does not include the NavBar "ok" button.

MSFT could have solved the problem in two ways:

1) include the NavBar "ok" (or "x") button in the control list that can be navigated using the right/left D-pad.

and/or

2) make sure that all modal buttons can be closed using the soft-keys.

unfortunately MSFT did neither of those...

marcol
08-26-2005, 01:11 AM
Bit more on topic, the Mio clearly has an OK button.

Surur

What you call the OK button is probably the Action button (i.e. center of the Pocket PC D-pad).

I think Surur is referring to the button on the bottom right, which seems to have an X on it.

The PocketTV Team
08-26-2005, 01:17 AM
> I think Surur is referring to the button on the bottom right, which seems to have an X on it.

This is one of the two application buttons.

I don't know what application this icon represents, but it's not an X and I doubt very much that this is mapped on the (x) or (ok) button in the NavBar.

In fact I don't think that there is any easy (standard) way to map a hardware button on this NavBar button. I'm sure it's possible to "hack" this, but WM5 should not need hacks in order to be usable with one hand!

gwinter
08-27-2005, 04:03 PM
Even with WM5 and softkeys, it is not possible to use a Pocket PC with just one hand, like a Smartphone. For most operations and basic navigation, even without any data input, touching the screen is still necessary.

I think the softkeys are not designed specifically for one-handed operation. Sure it is possible under some situation, but it is just another feature to ease usage. Take a look at the User Interface Product Reference (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/mobilesdk5/html/wce51conuserinterfaceproductreference.asp). Note the items "Soft keys" and "Full navigation from keyboard posture".

The first point is to use those buttons to make and end calls. The second point is that on a device with keyboard, you want to avoid pulling out the stylus while keyboarding. They even admit it doesn't work with everything.

Sven Johannsen
08-27-2005, 08:22 PM
>Let's hope that the WM6 version will really allow on-hand operation for everything short of entering text.

So why don't we get rid of the touch screen altogether. If you don't have a keyboard, or phone style keypad, you can always program in the ability to shift through an onscreen keyboard with the d-pad and select letter by letter with the action button. In fact, why don't you guys write a SIP like that and include those few odd things you can't do now without a stylus.

It's a PPC for pete's sake. One of the distinguishing features is a touch screen. You can touch it. I expect to be touching the soft keys on my X50 with my finger, since I don't expect dedicated hardware buttons will come on the CD. I have also been known to close modal dialogs and hit the X with my finger. I need to clean the screen now and again, but hey, I have to do that on my Smartphone too.

You say the one-handedness is half baked. Well it wasn't baked at all before. I could always dial the phone or use the calculator one handed, by using my thumb. It was a bit tough to hit menus with my thumb though, and that will be substantially better. If you don't like your stylus, get a Smartphone.

The PocketTV Team
08-27-2005, 11:00 PM
> So why don't we get rid of the touch screen altogether.

no, you don't get my point!

if you want no touch screen, you should get a Smartphone.

my point is that if you have a Pocket PC (i.e. with touch screen), then you should have the choice of:

1) navigating using the touch screen if you want to (e.g it's faster to use menus with the touch screen!),

OR

2) pure one-hand navigation using only D-pad and soft-keys only.

you should NOT have to touch the screen for basic navigation.

entering data, text, number etc would be the only action that *requires* touching the screen on devices that do not have a keyboard.

and i think that's this what MSFT's idea was when they added the soft-keys on WM5 Pocket PC.

Darius Wey
08-28-2005, 04:25 AM
my point is that if you have a Pocket PC (i.e. with touch screen), then you should have the choice of:

1) navigating using the touch screen if you want to (e.g it's faster to use menus with the touch screen!),

OR

2) pure one-hand navigation using only D-pad and soft-keys only.

You do have that choice. So, Windows Mobile 5.0 permits #1 (by tapping the softkey menus on the touch screen) and #2 (by using the D-pad and soft-keys to navigate through the softkey menus). You could attribute this to the way the UI of programs are designed, but to be honest, the way I've seen most Windows Mobile 5.0 applications designed, they allow both #1 and #2 - whichever one you choose is purely a personal choice.

you should NOT have to touch the screen for basic navigation.

So then go with option #2. I've been playing with Windows Mobile 5.0 for months, and it's very easy to navigate through menus using the softkeys and D-pad, and yes, all without touching the screen. Unless there's something I've missed here, your argumentative points seem a bit loopy. :?

jhennig
08-28-2005, 05:00 AM
If you don't like your stylus, get a Smartphone.

EXACTLY! What does it matter if you have to use that dreaded evil stylus? Styli have feelings too you know. :wink:

The PocketTV Team
08-28-2005, 06:47 AM
> You do have that choice. So, Windows Mobile 5.0 permits #1 (by tapping the softkey menus on the touch screen) and #2 (by using the D-pad and soft-keys to navigate through the softkey menus). You could attribute this to the way the UI of programs are designed, but to be honest, the way I've seen most Windows Mobile 5.0 applications designed, they allow both #1 and #2 - whichever one you choose is purely a personal choice.

No, you don't have that choice.

To proove it, just tape a piece of transparent paper on to on your screen (so that you cannot touch it), you you will see very soon that even for very simple navigation, you need to touch the screen

The simplest case is the (ok) button in the NavBar, to close modal dialogs. In most cases, there is no way to select it other than touching the screen.

> Unless there's something I've missed here, your argumentative points seem a bit loopy.

No, but I have played a lot with a WM5 Pocket PC and I found many cases where you need to touch the screen to select something or do something, even something simple.

When you will have a WM5 device, do the test that I said, and you'll see that you're stuck if you cannot touch the screen.

Darius Wey
08-28-2005, 07:46 AM
No, you don't have that choice.

To proove it, just tape a piece of transparent paper on to on your screen (so that you cannot touch it), you you will see very soon that even for very simple navigation, you need to touch the screen

The simplest case is the (ok) button in the NavBar, to close modal dialogs. In most cases, there is no way to select it other than touching the screen.

A Pocket PC has a touch screen and as you know, a lot of the UI is based around it (e.g on-screen input, OK button, etc.) What you're asking for here is a feature unique to the Smartphone - i.e. no touch screen, and complete use of buttons to navigate yourself from A to B. Well if you want that, go get a Smartphone, which others have said so as well. As far as basic navigation in Windows Mobile 5.0 is concerned, I can hit the left or right softkey, use the D-pad to select an option, and hit the action button to accept that option. Sure, I will still need to use the touch screen for some functions, but remember, this is a Pocket PC we're talking about, not a Smartphone. The touch screen is there for one purpose - "touching".

No, but I have played a lot with a WM5 Pocket PC and I found many cases where you need to touch the screen to select something or do something, even something simple. When you will have a WM5 device, do the test that I said, and you'll see that you're stuck if you cannot touch the screen.

The introduction of softkeys was never meant to negate the need for a touch screen. They are merely there to ease navigation for the user. A Pocket PC is a Pocket PC, and a Smartphone is a Smartphone. If (when?) Microsoft ever bring the two together to form one general Windows Mobile device, then we'd have a discussion on our hands. But for now, to argue that the softkeys or the touch screen itself has its fair share of redundancy is a moot point, isn't it? You might not see it, but I and a few others have stipulated that this is a Pocket PC. A Smartphone exists on the other side of the fence if you want true button-based navigation.

surur
08-28-2005, 11:03 AM
In support of pocketTV, its not asking for the impossible that they could have completed the job properly, and given true one handed navigation. Many new PPCphones are as small as smartphones, and the UI elements (especially the OK circle in the top corner) are getting very small these days.

Surur

The PocketTV Team
08-28-2005, 11:22 AM
> A Smartphone exists on the other side of the fence if you want true button-based navigation.

MSFT is getting rid of the fence (or trying to) with WM5.

The idea is to make devices that can be used with one-hand for navigation. Of course people who have two hands available can use the touch screen when there is one, but that will not be required unless you have data to enter and your device does not have a keyboard.

But clearly the job is not yet complete, and at this time, the Pocket PC still *requires* touching the screen for basic navigation. I think this will not be the case when the next version comes.

But of course, Pocket PC have a touch screen, so if you have two hands available, you will always have a better experience navigating with the touch screen. But that was not my point.

My point was, again, that when you have only one hand, you should (ideally) be able to navigate with a Pocket PC, using only soft-keys and D-pad. we are not there yet, but we'll be there some day.

> In support of pocketTV, its not asking for the impossible that they could have completed the job properly, and given true one handed navigation. Many new PPCphones are as small as smartphones, and the UI elements (especially the OK circle in the top corner) are getting very small these days.


yes, and it's also very easy to do so. e.g. look at the settings dialog of ActiveSync, it has a Done soft-key that does the same as the 'ok' button.

Sven Johannsen
08-29-2005, 07:50 AM
My point was, again, that when you have only one hand, you should (ideally) be able to navigate with a Pocket PC, using only soft-keys and D-pad. we are not there yet, but we'll be there some day.

No, your point was "'one-hand' operation of new WM5 PPC is mostly a myth (or a marketing lie)", the subj of your post.

That is a bit more negative and capricious than acknowledging that it would be good to get total one handed operation, but we are not quite there yet.

I still think you can get one handed operation, but you need to accept occasionally touching the screen with that one hand/finger/thumb. I think the reality is not the inability of the new OS to support one-handed operation, but rather the failure of individual application programmers to provide for complete one-handed operation. I see no reason why you, or any other programmer couldn't accept an action button press as an acknowledgment of the selected option in a modal dialog. I also don't see any reason that close, quit, or minimize couldn't be in a softkey accessible menu, to serve as an X press.

I guess my point is, that it isn't neccesarily an inherent OS issue, but can well be ascribed to the programs. I don't think it is much different than the X of old. The standard was that X minimized, but some programs I have close when you hit X. That means it is a programming option, UI guidelines be damned.

The PocketTV Team
08-29-2005, 09:31 AM
> I still think you can get one handed operation, but you need to accept occasionally touching the screen with that one hand/finger/thumb. I think the reality is not the inability of the new OS to support one-handed operation, but rather the failure of individual application programmers to provide for complete one-handed operation.

I was only refering to the bundled applications, i.e. those provided by *MSFT*.

> failure of individual application programmers

you mean, failure of MSFT programmers ... because that's the only thing I'm talking about here. I am not talking about any third-party app.

> I see no reason why you, or any other programmer couldn't accept an action button press as an acknowledgment of the selected option in a modal dialog.

In case of MSFT apps, you have no choice.

In many other cases, dialogs are in fact displayed by MSFT's libraries (e.g. MessageBox or GetOpenFileNameEx to take the most classic examples), and again in that case, the third party developer has no choice, because you cannot change the behavior of the action button when using MSFT's libraries. Of course you could re-write those libraries, too, but that's not the point.

so MSFT should do a good job with built-in applications and OS libraries.

After that, if this is the case, then third party developers have no excuse for not offering good one-hand operation support.

PetiteFlower
08-29-2005, 07:45 PM
I'm not seeing why this is a big deal. Are there THAT many PPC users who want to be able to use their device without ever using the touchscreen, yet don't want a smartphone? This has never been something that bothered me at all. The stylus is there to be used, isn't it? If MS hasn't designed their built-in apps that way, then maybe it's because they don't see that great of a demand for this feature.

marcol
08-29-2005, 08:50 PM
I'm not seeing why this is a big deal. Are there THAT many PPC users who want to be able to use their device without ever using the touchscreen, yet don't want a smartphone? This has never been something that bothered me at all. The stylus is there to be used, isn't it? If MS hasn't designed their built-in apps that way, then maybe it's because they don't see that great of a demand for this feature.

Try looking at it from others' perspectives though. The i-mate JAM is the only mobile phone I've owned that couldn't be used with just one hand, and I disliked this aspect of it so much that I got rid of it. No doubt people who are are happy with the 2003 UI on a phone now will be happy with the WM5 UI on a phone too, even if it doesn't allow stylus-free operation. That group is a long way from being everyone though. Personally, I'd like the power and flexibility the PPC OS and hardware with the one-handed useability of most other mobile phone UIs. I don't think this is such a big ask really. Even Palm, hardly the most innovative and cutting edge of companies these days, have got this right with the Treo (OK, is was really Handspring that really got it sorted).

The PocketTV Team
08-30-2005, 12:05 AM
I'm not seeing why this is a big deal. Are there THAT many PPC users who want to be able to use their device without ever using the touchscreen, yet don't want a smartphone? This has never been something that bothered me at all. The stylus is there to be used, isn't it? If MS hasn't designed their built-in apps that way, then maybe it's because they don't see that great of a demand for this feature.

If it was not a big deal (for MSFT), then why did MSFT made such of big deal of asking every manufacturer to add soft-keys and all developers to change their UI to make it compatible with the new one-hand operation UI model?

> Personally, I'd like the power and flexibility the PPC OS and hardware with the one-handed useability of most other mobile phone UIs. I don't think this is such a big ask really.

I completely agree.

G M Fude
08-30-2005, 11:52 AM
I'm not seeing why this is a big deal. Are there THAT many PPC users who want to be able to use their device without ever using the touchscreen, yet don't want a smartphone?
Yes please! I want one-handed operation of my Axim and I do not want a convergence device, I prefer a separate mobile phone. There's lots I could do with one hand on my old Tungsten T that just isn't possible on the X50v.