HP iPAQ hx4700 - Windows Mobile 5.0 Update Delayed

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/pscmisc/vac/us/en/sm/pocketpc/MS5.0_coming_soon.html' target='_blank'>http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/pscm...oming_soon.html</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050602-HP.gif" /><br /><br />Some of you may have noticed that over the past few weeks, the hx4700 was suddenly omitted from HP's Windows Mobile 5.0 update page. Well, there's good news and bad news. The good news is that the hx4700 is now listed on the page again. The bad news is that it's delayed: <i>"This offer will be made available in late Summer 2005 for the hx2000 series. Due to unforeseen extended delays in the availability of a critical 3rd party driver, the upgrade kit for the hx4700 will be delayed to mid to late Spring 2006."</i><br /><br />Ouch! There's no denying that mid to late Spring 2006 is a <b>serious</b> delay. :(

[Duncan]

It takes them c. seven - eight months to get hold of... a driver...?! 8O Even if I were to believe that WM 5.0 were sufficiently different to WM2003SE to make a complete rewriting of a driver necessary - seven to eight months is ridiculous surely...? got to be another explanation - something they aren't telling (gee... HP being less than truthful over a PPC upgrade... that's a new one...)

[rzanology]

DUDE!!! you should have bought a dell!!!!

[ctitanic]

That´s a really bad bad bad bad news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil:
Time for me to look for another PPC.
Bye bye hx4700!

[Duncan]

DUDE!!! you should have bought a dell!!!!

I don't think so - but I'm glad I bought a Loox...! :D

[ctitanic]

DUDE!!! you should have bought a dell!!!!

I don't think so - but I'm glad I bought a Loox...! :D

well, loox here in USA does not sounds a good idea. ;)

[Kash76]

I love it!! This is exactly why I won't buy another HP product. Pull your head from your @ss HP! It took them forever just to get WMP10 on the 4700. I love my Dell x50v!

[ttriple]

Does your Loox have a dedicated graphic card with its own dedicated 16MB of memory? Does any PPC out there right now that has this feature? If so the Dell x50v will still beat it from a performance/price stand point. Enough said.

As for HP. Dell is way ahead of them when it comes to support in the post-purchasing phase. I'm getting my x50v upgraded to WM5 while all the owners of 4700s can droll all over while they wait for their turns.

[Sven Johannsen]

DUDE!!! you should have bought a dell!!!!
I wouldn't gloat until you have Dell upgrade CD in your hand. If nothing else it's bad karma.

[ttriple]

DUDE!!! you should have bought a dell!!!!
I wouldn't gloat until you have Dell upgrade CD in your hand. If nothing else it's bad karma.

Bad Karma? How about a company should says what it says and stick to it?

[alex_kac]

It takes them c. seven - eight months to get hold of... a driver...?! 8O Even if I were to believe that WM 5.0 were sufficiently different to WM2003SE to make a complete rewriting of a driver necessary - seven to eight months is ridiculous surely...? got to be another explanation - something they aren't telling (gee... HP being less than truthful over a PPC upgrade... that's a new one...)

I can tell you that it is the truth. I shouldn't say anything more than that.

[Duncan]

Does your Loox have a dedicated graphic card with its own dedicated 16MB of memory? Does any PPC out there right now that has this feature? If so the Dell x50v will still beat it from a performance/price stand point. Enough said.

As for HP. Dell is way ahead of them when it comes to support in the post-purchasing phase. I'm getting my x50v upgraded to WM5 while all the owners of 4700s can droll all over while they wait for their turns.

Now now - no-one wins this kind of one-upmanship game - you offer your cheap price and graphics card, I counter with a better quality screen, bigger battery and USB host, you counter with faster processor, I counter with jog-dial, dedicated VoIP speaker and more powerful IR - and so on ad nauseum.

That's why it's a good idea to smile and keep your tongue in cheek when claiming superiority for your Pocket PC...! :)

[whydidnt]

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Well, it looks like HP adds to the list of recent PR gaffes. What the heck kind of driver is that hard to re-engineer? If I was to guess, it's the ATI display river, as that is about the only item the HX4700 has that doesn't exist in other devices that expect upgrades sooner.

Well, the fact that it's coming up on a year of use, that's almost a record for me anyway. I'm still drooling over the Universal, but perhaps something else will come along, in the meantime.

[Duncan]

It takes them c. seven - eight months to get hold of... a driver...?! 8O Even if I were to believe that WM 5.0 were sufficiently different to WM2003SE to make a complete rewriting of a driver necessary - seven to eight months is ridiculous surely...? got to be another explanation - something they aren't telling (gee... HP being less than truthful over a PPC upgrade... that's a new one...)

I can tell you that it is the truth. I shouldn't say anything more than that.

Seriously? It just seems so... improbable...! Dear Lord - I hope this isn't something that will affect the the Dell and/or Loox upgrades too. I'm getting that feeling in the pit of my stomach...

[alex_kac]

I'm not particularly happy about it either - for any OEM. But frankly a new OS is a new OS. Its got a new underpinning (CE 5 vs CE 4), a new memory/file system architecture, and a ton of major changes internally.

To be honest, as much as I want WM5 out there and as late as it is already, I'd rather the first OEM releases are as bug free as possible rather than get the upgrades being buggy and then later models be reliable. It makes support a mess and it messes with the market.

[mbassoc2003]

What they mean is 'ATI haven't written a driver for the redundent graphics chipset and are concentrating their resources elsewhere, and we haven't reached agreement with them to pay them to do so.'

[jbachandouris]

Anybody have an email address to complain to? I'd like to send my opinion, as if that would help!

[Paragon]

I'd rather the first OEM releases are as bug free as possible rather than get the upgrades being buggy and then later models be reliable.

Alex....You are either saying too much, or not enough. From what you have just posted, it sounds to me like there is more bad new on the way, and this "driver" problem is much more widespread? Or, am I reading too much between the lines?

Dave

[Pixelnose]

Now usually it's me who gets all angry about the upgrade paths (or complete lack thereof) with ppc devices. Me with my now obsolete iMate Jam. ;) Until now, my husband Juni has been rather smug with his hx4700.

But now we're in the same boat. An upgrade delayed by almost a year is no upgrade at all. Per his words, it's byebye HP, hello Dell.

PPC Manufacturers: Where the Customer is priority 199. 0X

[jbachandouris]

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/hurd/index.html

That's the link to contact CEO Mark Hurd. May not help, but it can't hurt.

[alex_kac]

I'd rather the first OEM releases are as bug free as possible rather than get the upgrades being buggy and then later models be reliable.

Alex....You are either saying too much, or not enough. From what you have just posted, it sounds to me like there is more bad new on the way, and this "driver" problem is much more widespread? Or, am I reading too much between the lines?

Dave

No, I'm not saying anything like that. What I am saying is that if you have a very fast river with lots of rapids, all riders are going to have work on getting through to the end and each rider is going to have slightly different obstacles.

BTW, its not an upgrade delayed a year. At the least its an upgrade delayed by 3 months, at most 6 months. And look with satisfaction that it'll probably have later builds of WM5 which will have bugs from the first gen WM5 fixed (this has been the case with every Windows Mobile OS).

[klanum]

Well, for me this likely will be the last HP I'll buy. Sad as I've had 3 of their products from the beginning of the PPC and always liked them but I do get tired of this backhanded product support. You can't tell me the hp engineers or product development didn't have a clue on this even with the Mobile 5.0 being out later that MS promised that this would have been something to work on prior to MS's eventual release.

I'll keep using my device until one of those newer devices comes out and I'll make the switch then while the hx4705 still has some residual resale value left in it!

Hopefully this is the typical engineering plays PR/Marketing and botches it again scenario. Maybe someone on the sales side can help them use the prybar to wedge their heads out from their .... and apply the right pressure where it needs to be placed :wink:

[jbachandouris]

Dave[/quote]

No, I'm not saying anything like that. What I am saying is that if you have a very fast river with lots of rapids, all riders are going to have work on getting through to the end and each rider is going to have slightly different obstacles.

BTW, its not an upgrade delayed a year. At the least its an upgrade delayed by 3 months, at most 6 months. And look with satisfaction that it'll probably have later builds of WM5 which will have bugs from the first gen WM5 fixed (this has been the case with every Windows Mobile OS).[/quote]

3 months? What month do you consider as Spring 2006? I would consider April to be Spring and that is 8 months away!

[Marcel_Proust]

I would encourage everyone to email the link provided above.
I would guess this is not so much a delay as a prelude to a cancellation of the upgrade.
I chose the hp over the dell because of the 4" screen, which I love. But this is just not acceptable.

[SHC]

Why am I not surprised?
Could it be the touchpad driver thats the problem - no other pda has one.
If I hadnt just ordered a very expensive Stingray Case from n-signia I'd go buy a Dell too.
I suppose my 4700 does most things it's supposed to - I can wait.
Hope it's worth it.

[phenderson]

I have an x50v with an extended 2200mah battery and a Piel case that I will trade to anyone who has an 4705 that they would like to trade me for.

Just e-mail me at wphend02 @ hotmail.com

[JMckie]

Who knows if it really is the driver. Typical corporate CYA to blame a "third party". Or it could be a driver, plus a number of other things. Or maybe they are doing it for strategic reasons - to make customers buy newer models that come with WM5 installed. Just offering it up as a possibilty.

[Paragon]

No, I'm not saying anything like that. What I am saying is that if you have a very fast river with lots of rapids, all riders are going to have work on getting through to the end and each rider is going to have slightly different obstacles.

BTW, its not an upgrade delayed a year. At the least its an upgrade delayed by 3 months, at most 6 months. And look with satisfaction that it'll probably have later builds of WM5 which will have bugs from the first gen WM5 fixed (this has been the case with every Windows Mobile OS).

Thanks, Alex. I figured I was reading way too much into what you were saying.

As for a 3 month delay, that point I will argue, as others have already. April would be 7-8 months delay. PLUS, name me one single event in the computer world that came in on time. Spring is computer speak for October. We all know that. :) Even if it comes out in April, I think most people will have moved on by then.

This all really stinks. I personally feel that upgrades have been the single worst thing for Pocket PCs. For the few people that have been able to receive one, they have been great. But if you consider all the frustration, delays, confusion, anger, disappointment and misinformation concerning upgrdades, there has been a lot more negative impact from their existence (or lack of) then there has been positive. This just adds to it in a very big way.

Dave

[PetiteFlower]

The more I hear from HP, the more I love Dell :)

[tekchic]

That clinches it for me not going to the 128mb upgrade with pocketpctechs.com. Doesn't make sense to put money into something I can't upgrade to a newer OS.

Looks like I cling to my BlackBerry 7100t longer and use my hx4705 as an ebook reader and for creative writing (w/my BT kb).

Disappointment. I've fallen for this more than once with ppc's. hp5555, hp5455, e740, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

Ooh look I'm a pocketpc neophyte, how adorable! ;) I've only had one since, oh, April 19th, 2000. Hehe.

[Duncan]

In fairness Compaq/HP have the best record of any Pocket PC manufacturers for upgrades (and I don't have an HP PPC - nor do I want one).

Right from the Aero 1500 and 2100 from Win CE 2.11 to Pocket PC 2000 up until the 2xxx and 4700 series thay have offered upgrades for every single generation of iPAQ (and its Aero predecessor) - except SE. Indeed - they were the only ones to offer upgrades for the first two generations.

Every manufacturer has been patchy - but HP have been easily the most consistent in offering upgrades (FSC have offered upgrades for every generation since they started offering Pocket PCs - but they only started with PPC 2002).

[nobody]

Hope that "delaying" doesn't ultimately changes to "disappearing". Given the length of this delay, I am not surprised if the upgrade is totally canceled.

[Marcel_Proust]

Hope that "delaying" doesn't ultimately changes to "disappearing". Given the length of
this delay, I am not surprised if the upgrade is totally canceled.

i would guess this is exactly their strategy. it's been toshiba's.

[Anthony Caruana]

I don't understand why so many people are so annoyed at this.

1 - Your current iPaq hx4700 hasn't become less useful, usable or functional. It's still an awesome device (best on market in my opinion but let's not start another round of mine's better than yours)

2 - Are there any WM5 devices out there today? Has anyone got an upgraded device (with a production version of WM5, not a beta or pre-release)? I'm in Australia and, as a journalist, I've not even been able to get a WM5 device to look at (upgraded or OEM). This 3 months/8 months late thing is a bit of a crock if there aren't any other devices out there.

The move to WM5 is not revolutionary - it's just a natural evolution. Sure there are some UI refinements and improved apps like the Office Mobile suite but there's not much else to it. In fact, if it wasn't for the change in the memory model I doubt that I'd even bother with it.

My suspicion is that the reason for the delay is to do with memory. The 4700 has a nice big ROM and just 64 MB of RAM. If the device moves to the new memory model, the RAM will behave like PC RAM and the iPAQ File Store will become the non-volatile store. My spider sense tells me that this isn't as simple as it sounds.

[palur]

I think WM5 upgrade for Hx4700 is a significant leap!
It converts flash rom and main ROm in to one for storage and use RAM for programs and thus hx700 will greatly benefit as we are now constrained to store and run programs on ROM.

[Ivanna Tinkle]

In fairness Compaq/HP have the best record of any Pocket PC manufacturers for upgrades (and I don't have an HP PPC - nor do I want one).

Right from the Aero 1500 and 2100 from Win CE 2.11 to Pocket PC 2000 up until the 2xxx and 4700 series thay have offered upgrades for every single generation of iPAQ (and its Aero predecessor) - except SE. Indeed - they were the only ones to offer upgrades for the first two generations.

Every manufacturer has been patchy - but HP have been easily the most consistent in offering upgrades (FSC have offered upgrades for every generation since they started offering Pocket PCs - but they only started with PPC 2002).

Actually, I have to agree that HP did offer the best upgrades in the past, but recently their record has left a lot to be desired. One has to look no further than the 1900, 5400, and the flagship 5500 series and watch the abandonment. They haven't offered even a driver update for the 5500 in over a year and it still has a few problems that have/will never be addressed. Plus, it would have been nice to be able to upgrade the 5500 to 2003SE, but HP decided that, according to the email they sent me, that the end user would not have any benefit or advantage to upgrade, and that the new features such as screen rotation would not be of interest. I don't like a company that tells me what I like and need.

After being burned by both Toshiba (I spit when I hear and speak the name) and HP, I looked at companies who have offered the best support path and chose the Dell Axim X50V. With the introduction of the X5, they have consistantly offered the latest updates to their customers. I understand that older machines will not be able to be upgraded due to the lack of ROM space and/or ROM type to work without hardware updating. Maybe their thought is put it off long enough and we can figure out how to make it work, or maybe you'll just forget about it.

[Anthony Caruana]

I think WM5 upgrade for Hx4700 is a significant leap!
It converts flash rom and main ROm in to one for storage and use RAM for programs and thus hx700 will greatly benefit as we are now constrained to store and run programs on ROM.

Most of my applications (other than a couple of Today plugins) are installed and run from the iPAQ File Store. The ability to install programs to the File Store has been around for ages. This upgrade makes it so that ALL data lives on the permanent store. So stuff like PIM data and application settings are also permanently stored. This is the big change.

[Jonathan1]

Bastards...Unlike Brighthand though you have at least a couple emoticons to convey my reaction. :bawl: + :cry: + :mecry: ^ 10

Screw HP. Never again. Watch as new models come out this fall. This is to make people spend an extra half grand + for an OS upgrade....bastards.

[Jonathan1]

Does your Loox have a dedicated graphic card with its own dedicated 16MB of memory? Does any PPC out there right now that has this feature? If so the Dell x50v will still beat it from a performance/price stand point. Enough said.

As for HP. Dell is way ahead of them when it comes to support in the post-purchasing phase. I'm getting my x50v upgraded to WM5 while all the owners of 4700s can droll all over while they wait for their turns.

Show me another Pocket PC that can go weeks without a charge and we have a deal. The Dell 50v sucks power like a black hole. I can easily get by for a week to two weeks on a single charge and that is WITH minor WIFI, gaming, etc. 16MB of VRAM means exactly jack to me if I need to plug the thing in every other day.

[indiekiduk]

I'd even take WM5 without the stupid touch pad driver. I always touch it by accident anyway so if it didnt work it would be a bonus.

[BUMP THAT]

I am very angry to hear this news. A double hitter for me today. First the 1.1 ROM/Battery fix comes out 2 days after I hard reset my PPC to clean it out and installed and configured all the necessities. Then I hear that i wont be able to get a WM5 upgrade till late Spring!! I bet it will be delayed after that as well.

Now I know I should have really gotton a DELL!!!! :? But I went to HP for the better screen and the black/alloy looking housing.

Well no matter. I am sure many of us will have a new PPC by then. Possibly the HTC Universal in black. :lol: I sure do like black gadgets.

What a way to soil my upcomming vacation!! :evil:

[Patrick Y.]

I'm really glad that I bought x50v instead of the gigantic, ugly iPAQ (sorry). :lol: 8O I always believe that Dell has better customer support, and it is definately true according to my experience and WM 5 upgrade. Dell even offers free upgrade on their website recently while hp offers nothing. After all, HP should have better support for iPAQ 4700 series since it is at least $200-$250 more than my x50v.

Just a thought, are both x50v and hx4700 manufactured AND designed by HTC? In theory, it should be HTC who's developing the upgrade for both devices, right? :?:

[Patrick Y.]

I am very angry to hear this news. A double hitter for me today. First the 1.1 ROM/Battery fix comes out 2 days after I hard reset my PPC to clean it out and installed and configured all the necessities. Then I hear that i wont be able to get a WM5 upgrade till late Spring!! I bet it will be delayed after that as well.

Now I know I should have really gotton a DELL!!!! :? But I went to HP for the better screen and the black/alloy looking housing.

Well no matter. I am sure many of us will have a new PPC by then. Possibly the HTC Universal in black. :lol: I sure do like black gadgets.

What a way to soil my upcomming vacation!! :evil:

I really sorry about your experience.

[fmcpherson]

HP says the upgrade will ship on time for the hx2200 series, which I think is better than the hx4700 series anyway.

[Darius Wey]

HP says the upgrade will ship on time for the hx2200 series, which I think is better than the hx4700 series anyway.

Unfortunately, there are many who went with the hx4700 for the VGA screen, so this news comes as a real stab in the back for them.

[jaarso]

With the introduction of the X5, they have consistantly offered the latest updates to their customers.
I disagree with that statement. Dell (and HP) failed to offer an upgrade to Windows Mobile 2003 SE. Fujitsu-Siemens and Asus did offer the SE upgrade if I recall correctly. Dell is only offering the WM5 upgrade to one device, the X50. Dell is screwing it's X30 and previous owners on WM5. According to Dell customers on Aximsite.com and the other various Dell forums, the Axim X30 is just as capable to be able to receive the WM5 upgrade. HP is offering WM5 this summer to the iPAQ hx2100, hx2400, and the hx2700. (Next spring the hx4700). After looking at those facts, it would be quite a stretch to say that Dell has consistently offered the latest updates to their customers. It is just not true.

[ttriple]

Does your Loox have a dedicated graphic card with its own dedicated 16MB of memory? Does any PPC out there right now that has this feature? If so the Dell x50v will still beat it from a performance/price stand point. Enough said.

As for HP. Dell is way ahead of them when it comes to support in the post-purchasing phase. I'm getting my x50v upgraded to WM5 while all the owners of 4700s can droll all over while they wait for their turns.

Show me another Pocket PC that can go weeks without a charge and we have a deal. The Dell 50v sucks power like a black hole. I can easily get by for a week to two weeks on a single charge and that is WITH minor WIFI, gaming, etc. 16MB of VRAM means exactly jack to me if I need to plug the thing in every other day.

Dell also offers a higher capacity battery that doubles the amount the of usage time. Or you can get an extra battery on Ebay and have it with you. It's not a big deal and owner of the x50v do have that option.
As i'm reading this thread, I can't help but wondering if this has something to do with what's going on internally at HP? HP is under going some major restructuring after the departure of former CEO, Carly Fiorina. They are thinking of splitting up HP into two companies. One is just their profitable imaging/printing division. The other is their struggling computing division. Maybe most of the attention at management levels are on restructuring right now and not on researching, developing or supporting their products. OH hell, why dont they do it like IBM and sell their computer division to Dell and let Michael Dell do it "the Dell way" :lol: At the moment Dell is #1 for a reason, right? And HP is #1 in imaging and printing so why not let each of them concentrade on what each one is best at? Any one with me on this theory?

[Terry]

I don't understand why so many people are so annoyed at this.


I stopped using my h4100 and purchased an hx4700 specifically because it could be upgraded to WM5 whereas the 4100 could not (per HP). That's why I'm annoyed.

[Jerry Raia]

This might be the straw the pushes me out of the PPC world for good. This is a way of life in the Smartphone world. Might as well just stay there! :devilboy:

[juni]

They did it with the 2210 and they'll do it with the 4700 (loong delay = mysteriously cancelled). I think the delay means they are coming out with new devices and rather have you buy those - hey, it worked, I bought the 4700.

That is twice they done it to me so I'll be looking around for other brands (probably Dell. Any word out on their next devices arriving?). What did Bush say? "Fool me once, shame on..."?

[JDTagish]

This has been interesting to me...I love my Toshi e800, and use the USB host capabilities often enough to keep my from going back to HP. (I've had a couple of iPaq's in the past.)

What I find interesting is that everyone is in such a hurry to switch to WM05 because they want to have their data protected from unexpected data loss. I PERSONALLY don't know if I think that's a great idea. I like to try out new programs, and not all of them function as expected...and if I can't get the performance back to the way it was before I messed it up, a friendly hard reset and a copy of my daily backup puts me right back to where I was in the first place, without risk. I'm afraid of losing that. Maybe I'm nuts, but I really want to buy a few more e800/830's once people are jumping ship for new devices, so I can keep what I have right now.

[Transfxb]

You know what?
I have bought a pocket PC just to install new OS!
In between, I do nothing with it.
By the way, I am very disappointed when a new OS release is delayed.

More seriously, I use my Pocket PC on a professional basis. And it does what it is supposed to: a PIM in a rtaher small device with a rather friendly UI.
I (almost) don't care about which OS is under the hood.

Some reactions here make me think of my kids (mine is longer that your..., I wan't it now!,...).

TransFXB

[juni]

I guess we could be called "early adopters" and enthusiasts ;). But for some of us it is vital that we have the latest version, for example: developers, skin designers...

[PR.]

I guess this doesn't really bother me...

I've had my 4700 since release day and it has been pretty good however about 4months after I bought it I bought a TabletPC and Smartphone now the 4700 is barely used at all, maybe 30minutes a week. I don't even use my Vaja case to carry it around anymore it just sits in my bag.

I would like the WM5 upgrade just to see how it pans out but I can wait.

I shall probably move to a either a newer Smartphone or a one of the mini WM5PE devices.

[Transfxb]

I guess we could be called "early adopters" and enthusiasts ;). But for some of us it is vital that we have the latest version, for example: developers, skin designers...
Right Juni (and your excellent skins participate to the freindliness of my UI).
But not ALL posters whining are developpers...

TransFXB

[JDTagish]

I guess we could be called "early adopters" and enthusiasts ;). But for some of us it is vital that we have the latest version, for example: developers, skin designers...

That is a definite point! (I love your themes BTW, I have purchased several!)

I like being abreast of the current developments, and would like to be an early adopter, and am definitely an entheusiast! Unfortunately, my pocketbook doesn't allow me to buy as many toys as I would like to, but I drool often over new devices, subscribe to the magazines, read the forums daily and can't wait to see what is coming with new devices. I'm hoping the holiday season will bring some new ones. I totally understand wanting the latest and greatest...I always want something new as well, but at the same time, I've spent a bunch of $ on many things that wind up sitting in a drawer or box and not often used. (My mp3 player for one, which has found newer life as an external 20g HD for my PPC, since it has it's own power, and makes it great for trips)

But, for developers I can see that it would be critical to have upgrades ASAP to ensure continuity and compatibility. It's just that most of the people posting are not developers, and the level of frustration is so intense that it gets hard to understand. It's like what they have (among the absolute best of PPC's) is suddenly inoperable and intolerable, when it was "fanstastic" a month ago. I guess for me, an OS upgrade/update is not nearly as exciting as a new device, and I can live with it or without it. I don't expect it, and if it comes my way, then so much the better.

I'll hold good thoughts tho, for all of you who are really looking forward to it!

[Jonathon Watkins]

But not ALL posters whinning are developpers...

Come on TransFXB, that's not fair. There's a lot of people who are fairly disappointed by the news that there is going to be a delay in being able to upgrade their system. At the back of everyone's minds' if the possibility that 'late' could turn into 'never', as it has before. :? It's not whining, it's expressing disappointment and asking HP to hurry it along. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that. :wink:

Yes your device could do the same as it ever could, but that's not the point. If many folk's devices has been upgraded to do more, faster and more elegantly, then in real terms you've taken a step backward. That's why I guess most of us are running Windows XP/OS X rather than Windows 98 or MacOS 7. We want the latest and greatest and implicit in buying an expensive VGA 64Mb RAM, 128Mb ROM device from HP, is the promise of support and being able to upgrade. That's why people feel so let down.

[Jonathon Watkins]

With the introduction of the X5, they have consistantly offered the latest updates to their customers.
I disagree with that statement. Dell (and HP) failed to offer an upgrade to Windows Mobile 2003 SE.

True, and I was unhappy about it at the time. BUT, when I bought my X5, it was running PPC2002. Dell DID offer a (paid) upgrade to PPC2003. So, with the X50v upgrade to WM5, I will have had an OS upgrade for both the Dells I have owned. I.e. the more expensive Dells do get the upgrades.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Looks like I cling to my BlackBerry 7100t longer and use my hx4705 as an ebook reader and for creative writing (w/my BT kb).

Or you could combine the two into something like the HTC Universal? :)

Ooh look I'm a pocketpc neophyte, how adorable! ;) I've only had one since, oh, April 19th, 2000. Hehe.

How very sweet. :wink: Glad to see your first post. 8)

[Transfxb]

But not ALL posters whinning are developpers...Come on TransFXB, that's not fair. There's a lot of people who are fairly disappointed by the news that there is going to be a delay in being able to upgrade their system. At the back of everyone's minds' if the possibility that 'late' could turn into 'never', as it has before. :? It's not whining, it's expressing disappointment and asking HP to hurry it along. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that. :wink:
You're right, I'm not 100% fair.
I think having a new OS is a good point and HP's announcement is a pity for such a large company.
What I am complaining about is the childish "you should have bought a Dell, yark, yark" which is close for me to "mine is longer that your...". Useless.

Now, HP didn't manage it the right way and consumers have to gather to express to HP their disappointement and lack of confidence, and to make them hurry, if that's possible.

TransFXB

[Jonathon Watkins]

What I am complaining about is the childish "you should have bought a Dell, yark, yark" ...

I can see where you are coming from. In all honesty, it was partially HP's slack past record that made me buy a Dell rather than an HP and I said so at the time. I guess it's human nature to want to say "I told you so". :? I agree it's not a nice inclination and we all have to learn to be gracious. What comes around goes around. For all we know, the Dell WM5 delayed announcement is delayed itself. :lol: :worried:

...which is close for me to "mine is longer that your...".

By the way, I know that the HP4705 is longer than my X50v, by looking at Duncan's excellent VGA comparison chart here (http://www.firstloox.org/VGAppc.htm). :wink:

[Transfxb]

By the way, I know that the HP4705 is longer than my X50v, by looking at Duncan's excellent VGA comparison chart here (http://www.firstloox.org/VGAppc.htm). :wink:
Good one :D

Humor has always been a good way to exorcise bad thoughts :devilboy:

TransFXB

[Ed Hansberry]

It takes them c. seven - eight months to get hold of... a driver...?! 8O Even if I were to believe that WM 5.0 were sufficiently different to WM2003SE to make a complete rewriting of a driver necessary - seven to eight months is ridiculous surely...? got to be another explanation - something they aren't telling (gee... HP being less than truthful over a PPC upgrade... that's a new one...)
I wonder if it is the third party driver necessary to allow the OS to use the flash ROM (probably from Intel) for data rather than RAM as in Wm2003?

[Jonathan1]

Dell also offers a higher capacity battery that doubles the amount the of usage time. Or you can get an extra battery on Ebay and have it with you. It's not a big deal and owner of the x50v do have that option.

That's all well and good but as any extended battery does it makes most PDA's bulky. I've seen a 50v with a extended battery. A friend of mine got his last xmas. The 4705 is the thickest I'm willing to go. Its simply a matter of pref.


Oh and as for those who are saying that PPC2005 is no big deal. Pass the joint my way. I want to try that stuff. :roll: Memory allocation alone is going to make 2005 worth the upgrade. Can you store apps in ROM now? Yes. Of course. You also need third party apps to move dll files and such over to ROM and even at the best of times you will run into apps that even though you said "go there" they install into RAM so don't make it out as if its simply a matter of selecting the install location....its not.

[Menneisyys]

Does your Loox have a dedicated graphic card with its own dedicated 16MB of memory? Does any PPC out there right now that has this feature?


128M RAM, jog dial, CIR, camera, a MUCH more colorful screen, USB host, GREAT battery life, double VoIP-compliant speakers (one of them is very loud)... should I continue? :)


If so the Dell x50v will still beat it from a performance/price stand point.


But not in Europe. Here, they are equally priced.

[Jerry Raia]

Now, HP didn't manage it the right way and consumers have to gather to express to HP their disappointement and lack of confidence, and to make them hurry, if that's possible.

TransFXB

This is pretty typical behavior for HP sad to say. They are not too interested in our disappointment but we should still make noise.

[thenikjones]

With the introduction of the X5, they have consistantly offered the latest updates to their customers.
I disagree with that statement. Dell (and HP) failed to offer an upgrade to Windows Mobile 2003 SE. Fujitsu-Siemens and Asus did offer the SE upgrade if I recall correctly. Dell is only offering the WM5 upgrade to one device, the X50. Dell is screwing it's X30 and previous owners on WM5. According to Dell customers on Aximsite.com and the other various Dell forums, the Axim X30 is just as capable to be able to receive the WM5 upgrade. HP is offering WM5 this summer to the iPAQ hx2100, hx2400, and the hx2700. (Next spring the hx4700). After looking at those facts, it would be quite a stretch to say that Dell has consistently offered the latest updates to their customers. It is just not true.

The x50 series is the most recent Dell product line, so it's reasonable for them to offer an upgrade for them and not the x30 line. The hx2xxx devices came along about the same time as the 4700, so should all get an upgrade. Seems reasonable to me.

[acecafe]

I was screwed by hp :devilboy: on the 5555 and I bought a 4705 off the forum to take advantage of WM5 only to get screwed again. It's the one thing they do best. I'm sure something better will come along before they release WM5. if it gets released.

[timcolling]

I was screwed by hp :devilboy: on the 5555 and I bought a 4705 off the forum to take advantage of WM5 only to get screwed again. It's the one thing they do best. I'm sure something better will come along before they release WM5. if it gets released.

As a 5555 owner, I decided that HP was no longer on my "special" vendor list. I'm pretty darn satisfied now with my Samsung i730, and I don't really care what HP does anymore. They have certainly lost my trust, as has Toshiba.

- Tim

[pjerry220]

HP may have delayed the 4705 upgrade toWM6 but Istill have to say this is the best IpaqI've ever owned. I amin Florida on vacation left the 4705 at home and am very disappointed. I depend heavily on that device.

I'll probably just keep the 4705 the way it is and buy a HP WM5 device next year.

[FortimirCE]

This entire thread was ridiculous.

A lot of babies here who don't know the number ONE rule of technology:
Buy for NOW, and always think of upgrades as a bonus, not a neccessity.

I'm disappointed too, but my hx4700 didn't "all of a sudden" become crap. Chill out. You make me sick.

[pjerry220]

I think the thread did bring out the feelings of people who own the devices. Ridiculous thread I think not.