PC Magazine Previews the HP hw6515

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1848831,00.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,189...,1848831,00.asp</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Seemingly custom-built for business travelers, the HP iPAQ hw6515 ($450 with two-year service contract) will tell you where you're going and who wants you to get there, with its excellent push e-mail and GPS functions. Unfortunately, bugs and incompatibilities with some Pocket PC software plagued our preproduction unit and left us troubled."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/ekkie_hw6515_pcmag.jpg" /><br /><br />That's an ominous to start a preview, but they do conclude on a somewhat higher note. Take a look at their impressions and let us know what you think. While there are arguably several more compelling devices on the horizon (especially overseas), I can tell you that from a corporate perspective, the competition will likely be limited to just a few mainstream devices: this HP Messenger line, the Treo, and the RIM Blackberry. Do you see a different device threatening these three?

[kcrain]

What about any of the new HTC products (Universal, Wizard, Apache, etc)? Granted, those will come from other companies' labels...but IF the WM5 push email is as good as RIM's, it is my humble opinion that the HTC products are better than either RIM, HP, or Palm...but that's not even definite. If the rumors about the Treo 670 are true, that's something else to consider. However, all told, I might prefer the Universal or Wizard over the Treo just for the screen. *shrug* Lots of different factors to consider I suppose...

[normaldude]

I can tell you that from a corporate perspective, the competition will likely be limited to just a few mainstream devices: this HP Messenger line, the Treo, and the RIM Blackberry. Do you see a different device threatening these three?

What about the Motorola Moto Q? (aka Razrberry)..

http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details/0,,113,00.html

http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/images/0,,113,00.html

[huangzhinong]

I still believe the square screen won't be the mainstream. P50, ETEN M500 or moboDA 3360 are the way to go, all of which are smaller than h6515 or treo 650.

[paris]

HTC Wizzard all the way. no compromize in size/screen and a bigger qwerty keyborad! This is a winner for me

[alex_kac]

I can tell you that from a corporate perspective, the competition will likely be limited to just a few mainstream devices: this HP Messenger line, the Treo, and the RIM Blackberry. Do you see a different device threatening these three?

What about the Motorola Moto Q? (aka Razrberry)..

http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details/0,,113,00.html

http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/images/0,,113,00.html

That's not a Microsoft Pocket PC. Its a Microsoft SmartPhone.

[alex_kac]

I personally like the 6515 or more so the 6715 with WM5 and more RAM.

Its small enough, light enough, and powerful enough. I'm on a small device kick - but I'd prefer one with a keyboard myself. Its just easier for writing emails.

[bdegroodt]

:( "Bugs." Sigh! This might be HP's final chance to get this right and if they ship a less than noteworthy (for the right reasons) product, I can't see them supporting this line (and all the other phone/communicators) much longer. It's really sad to see such potential get it wrong so many times.

[frankenbike]

The GPS function is interesting. Does that only work where a digital signal is available, or does it have a real GPS chip in it?

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

What about any of the new HTC products (Universal, Wizard, Apache, etc)? Granted, those will come from other companies' labels...but IF the WM5 push email is as good as RIM's, it is my humble opinion that the HTC products are better than either RIM, HP, or Palm...but that's not even definite. If the rumors about the Treo 670 are true, that's something else to consider. However, all told, I might prefer the Universal or Wizard over the Treo just for the screen. *shrug* Lots of different factors to consider I suppose...
I absolutely agree. There are better, more feature-rich models available, but I just can't see any of them getting into the mainstream of corporate America. Call it marketing muscle if you like, but most everyone in corporate America know about the upcoming HP but they're not aware of the HTC models you're mentioning despite their technical advantages.

Most everyone here is complaining about the square-resolution screen... and I agree that this is a major minus for myself, but for those who haven't used Pocket PCs in the past or those who haven't become advanced in their use of them, probably won't notice the difference.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

What about the Motorola Moto Q? (aka Razrberry)..

http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details/0,,113,00.html

http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/images/0,,113,00.html
Once it's released, it could catch on, but not a lot of folks in corporate America know about it (at least not amongst the people I speak with)... not nearly to the same extent that folks know about the HP messenger or even the WM-based Treo.

[alex_kac]

What about the Motorola Moto Q? (aka Razrberry)..

http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details/0,,113,00.html

http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/images/0,,113,00.html
Once it's released, it could catch on, but not a lot of folks know about it... not nearly to the same extent that folks know about the HP messenger and even the rumored MS-based Treo.

I doubt it. Its still a SmartPhone, not a Pocket PC Phone Edition. As such its just not going to appeal to Pocket PC enthusiasts, though it is probably among the best SmartPhone designs.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Once it's released, it could catch on, but not a lot of folks know about it... not nearly to the same extent that folks know about the HP messenger and even the rumored MS-based Treo.I doubt it. Its still a SmartPhone, not a Pocket PC Phone Edition. As such its just not going to appeal to Pocket PC enthusiasts, though it is probably among the best SmartPhone designs.
I agree, but within corporate America, I think there could be huge uptake of an MS-based Smartphone, but they need a major manufacterer to release it and a US-based carrier to resell it.

To clarify, my remarks about this HP Messenger device being in competition with the Blackberry and Treo devices was in regards to corporate America. I don't see any of those three having the same impact amongst our highly-technical user community, with exception for the Treo possibly.

[alex_kac]

The only reason I disagree that even corporate america cares about the Q is that SmartPhones and Pocket PCs are just plain different markets except to our community here.

No matter how powerful the Q is - its market is going to be people who primarily want a phone with a few PDA like software on it, or who need to get their calendar and contacts with them, but do very little data entry of any kind.

Pocket PCs, however, are used much for data interaction which includes data entry.

So yes, the Q will probably sell about as well as the Razr - meaning extremely well and probably more than any Pocket PC - insofar as somebody choosing it over a PPC when they are in the PDA market and not the phone market, its just not going to happen.

Corporate America is split into those two groups - staff and execs who simply need notification of what's going on and an excellent phone (Motorola Q) or staff and more hands on execs who need PDAs which is where Pocket PCs will shine.

My point is that most people already know they are looking for either a SmartPhone or a Pocket PC. The Q just isn't going to change MOST of them from one side to the other.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Those are great points. However, I do believe that the highest-demand applications (or desired applications) for corporate america when it comes to a portable device (whether SmartPhone or PDA) is email, calendar, and contacts integration. There is growing demand for web-enabled applications that can be used for data entry and/or retrieval as well. The problem today is that push-email along with the calendar and contacts integration typically requires 3rd party software such as Goodlink or Intellisync.

When Microsoft's push email solution comes to full fruition in the form of Exchange 2003 SP2 and WM5. These capabilities will be fully supportable using infrastructure components that most companies already have. This will further push the demand for devices such as the HP Messenger (assuming they follow through with their WM5 support) and the future Treo. However, the biggest complaint that I hear with regards to any of these devices is still size. That's where I believe a Smartphone-type of device could really fill the void.

[alex_kac]

Those are great points. However, I do believe that the highest-demand applications (or desired applications) for corporate america when it comes to a portable device (whether SmartPhone or PDA) is email, calendar, and contacts integration. There is growing demand for web-enabled applications that can be used for data entry and/or retrieval as well. The problem today is that push-email along with the calendar and contacts integration typically requires 3rd party software such as Goodlink or Intellisync.
I totally agree. 100%. However, I also know from surveys we've done as well as one on one conversations with certain OEMs, certain very very large accounts of ours, that frankly SmartPhones just don't hold up well to extended use in any of that. For email, its read only. For calendar, mostly read only. And so on. Yes, innovative apps can improve upon that (like the upcoming PI for SmartPhone), but only for light use.

All those users have found that Pocket PC Phone Editions or even straight PDAs just match what they need far more than SmartPhones do.

I've been using a SmartPhone exclusively for 2 months now as we work on PI for the SmartPhone and its specs and design. I can say that i'm going back to a Pocket PC Phone Edition just because its a huge bear trying to do any type of email (my most used convergence application) or even calendar entry on a SmartPhone. It takes far too long - and I'm very quick with T9.

[/quote]

When Microsoft's push email solution comes to full fruition in the form of Exchange 2003 SP2 and WM5. These capabilities will be fully supportable using infrastructure components that most companies already have. This will further push the demand for devices such as the HP Messenger (assuming they follow through with their WM5 support) and the future Treo. However, the biggest complaint that I hear with regards to any of these devices is still size. That's where I believe a Smartphone-type of device could really fill the void.[/quote]

I agree with you 100% up to the conclusion. I believe - from experience and from extensive discussions with the people whom you are talking about - that SmartPhones are extremely appealing due to their size and for many people - they are perfect. But once any user tries to use it for more than a phone in any extended use they find themselves leaning back to a Pocket PC/Phone Edition device.

Size is huge. After using a Razr for 8 months and an SP for the last 2, I would adore a PPC OS in that Motorola Q. To me the 6515 is about as close as I can get to having a real keyboard in a phone edition device that's small. The other non-keyboard Pocket PCs that are nearly as small as Phone Edition are also great, except that they aren't major mfgs and thus won't get a second look.

As I said before, I think SmartPhones will greatly outsell Pocket PCs - but I think Pocket PCs will outrun the SmartPhone in actual usage in all those areas you talk about.

[alex_kac]

I also want to correct/clarify myself on one thing. The Q with its keyboard DOES make it the one SmartPhone out there that can win for just pure emailing. I do agree on that.

But I guess what I'm trying to point out is that although email is the killer app for something like the Q - I think that's the same market as phone users or blackberry users. I do not think that market overlaps significantly with Pocket PC users.

Sure there will be some overlap, but a Pocket PC like the 6515 is very different from the Q in many respects. A person who is drawn to the Q is one who is looking for simple phone usage with email - like a blackberry. A person drawn to the 6515 is one who wants that - and more.

So right now, people who want the first will go for a blackberry. After the Q is out, they'll go for the Q or the blackberry, while people who are looking for more will still gravitate to the PPC.

Anyhow - those are just my opinions and thoughts. I don't mean to argue here - I just see the idea that most people could interchange the PPC or the Q as being mostly unfounded.

[huangzhinong]

The moto Q is not a competitor here at all. Smartphone is phone, PPC phone is a PDA, they are targetting different groups. I don't use smartphone because I need a PDA even I have a smartphone, but some people find smartphone is enough.

[alex_kac]

The moto Q is not a competitor here at all. Smartphone is phone, PPC phone is a PDA, they are targetting different groups. I don't use smartphone because I need a PDA even I have a smartphone, but some people find smartphone is enough.

I agree - and that's the point I'm trying to make, with as much detail as I can :)

[alex_kac]

I keep thinking about this (darn it...I've got real work to do!) so I wanted to write down a few more thoughts on this.

Even with the keyboard, the Q just won't be as good for real on the go emailing as a real Pocket PC just because of not having a touch screen. I think this is the biggest failing of SmartPhones - if you want to use it for more than a phone (that's key).

The Q will exceed the ability of the BlackBerry and be far more usable and functional - and in that role as a phone which can receive and then reply to messages - it will be outstanding and should get a huge market share from.

But again, once you get past those basics, you'll want to do more. Without a touchscreen - you either get yourself into an overly complex set of menus and anything more rudimentary becomes annoying - or you just trim features. I am an avid emailer. I want to be hooked up to my email 24x7. If I could embed an email view in my retina - I would. Using the SP over the last 2 months for email was horrendous. Sure, for my main inbox I could read email, and if I had a Q, it'd be far easier to respond. But simple things like moving email around; changing folders; editing; doing email attachments (i.e. attaching other emails); and so on and so on are all common things that unless you create a ton of keyboard macros (ala old style DOS WordPerfect) are either near impossible or too complex. With a stylus, all those things become simple.

I'm looking at Pocket Informant for the SmartPhone so we've had to go through these decisions very carefully for months now. My #1 design goal is not how to put as much power and customizability into the apps bar none, it is instead how to offer the easiest to use application first without too many button presses in as powerful a package as possible. If a menu is taller than the screen (i.e. it has to scroll) - its too long. Sure I could still put in all those features that the PPC side has and just assign keyboard commands to it all and include a PDF quick key sheet, but I feel we got away from that 20 years ago with the first Mac and 10 years ago with Windows 95 (somewhat).

When the Moto Q was first announced, I thought to myself - oh...that would be awesome. But then I started thinking back to why I'm going back to the PPC. Except for replying/creating email none of them involved a keyboard. And if you get as much email as I do, replying/creating is only a small part of what I need to do with email.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Anyhow - those are just my opinions and thoughts. I don't mean to argue here
Not at all. You make great points.

I know many within my organization would prefer a Smartphone over a larger Treo/Messenger/Blackberry device, but I could see how the limited usability would eventually catch up to the user.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

The moto Q is not a competitor here at all. Smartphone is phone, PPC phone is a PDA, they are targetting different groups. I don't use smartphone because I need a PDA even I have a smartphone, but some people find smartphone is enough.
Not competing in terms of features... but in the corporate market, users will either go one route or the other and right now, there isn't too much choice because none of the Smartphones have not been marketed in the US by a mainstream reseller/manufacterer such as HP or Motorola. So users who want PIM functionality have little choice in terms of form factor.

But to back up Alex's point, what the corporate market "think" they want and what they "actually" want may end up being two different things.

[Kirkaiya]

I think some users here may be a wee bit out of touch with actual corporate execs, and what they want.

The execs I deal with (Director of Asia/Pacific for a logistics company, North American General Manager for a business unit of Securicor, etc), they have NO FRIGGIN IDEA what the difference between "Pocket PC Phone Edtion", "MS SmartPhone" and "Windows Mobile" is. Not a clue. And they don't want to know - they don't care what the operating system is, they don't want to know the details, and they'll probably never install a single app that doesn't come with the device.

Most of these guys that I have to work with use Blackberries (a couple do use Treos), because that's what's out there - it's simple to use, has a keyboard (none of the execs I deal with ever learned grafiti, or else they prefer the mini-keyboard).

So for competitors to Blackberry, I think the Moto Q looks formidable - if the push-email feature works anywhere as well as RIM/Blackberry's, and RIM doesn't come out with a similiar super-slim device, then the Q will win converts. Ditto for the Treo 670, but to a lesser extent.

The single biggest question I get from these guys (or complaint about their blackberries) is that they can't open up email attachments. Since the Moto Q is using WM2005, assuming it comes with the new Pocket Word and Pocket Excel, then this will be it's "killer edge" - a Blackberry that can pull down your attachments, and let you edit them.

I don't know that it's a "blackberry killer", but it will definitely bite into RIM's market share more than any other device has been able to, in my semi-humble opinion :-P

[Mr. PPC]

I think some users here may be a wee bit out of touch with actual corporate execs, and what they want.

The execs I deal with (Director of Asia/Pacific for a logistics company, North American General Manager for a business unit of Securicor, etc), they have NO FRIGGIN IDEA what the difference between "Pocket PC Phone Edtion", "MS SmartPhone" and "Windows Mobile" is. Not a clue. And they don't want to know - they don't care what the operating system is, they don't want to know the details, and they'll probably never install a single app that doesn't come with the device.

Most of these guys that I have to work with use Blackberries (a couple do use Treos), because that's what's out there - it's simple to use, has a keyboard (none of the execs I deal with ever learned grafiti, or else they prefer the mini-keyboard).

You make several valid points that I agree with entirely. I may elaborate on a few of them though for others.

Believe it or not, alot of CEO's etc. get devices because their counterparts (friends, competitors etc.) have them. I know this sounds silly, but it is completely true. I have sat in dozens of meetings with different CEOs, managers etc. and watched them show off their latest toy. Only to see in our next meeting everyone else with them or some item they think is better.

The CEO of the company I work for initially wanted a Blackberry because everyone else he interacted with had one. I conviced him it was a bad idea by showing him its limitations compared to the devices we had decided on using. We trialled the Blackberry solution and found it lacking in several key areas. So guess what happened after he started using a a different device, other CEO's etc. dumped their Blakberries and got different devices. As soon as he could do something they couldn't, they dumped the devices they had and got similar devices.

So for competitors to Blackberry, I think the Moto Q looks formidable - if the push-email feature works anywhere as well as RIM/Blackberry's, and RIM doesn't come out with a similiar super-slim device, then the Q will win converts. Ditto for the Treo 670, but to a lesser extent.

The single biggest question I get from these guys (or complaint about their blackberries) is that they can't open up email attachments. Since the Moto Q is using WM2005, assuming it comes with the new Pocket Word and Pocket Excel, then this will be it's "killer edge" - a Blackberry that can pull down your attachments, and let you edit them.

I don't know that it's a "blackberry killer", but it will definitely bite into RIM's market share more than any other device has been able to, in my semi-humble opinion :-P

The poor support for attachments with the Blackberry was one of our main issues. Nothing like openning an attached PDF to see that all the graphics have been removed. Not to mention the lack of ability to view other attachment types. Yes, third-parties have created apps to view some of them on the Blackberry, but nothing like on a Pocket PC or Palm for that matter. Reading the text of an email is great, but not being able to view embeded graphics kinda sucks. This isn't perfect on Pocket PC, but we could use PDF's to get around that limitation. With the introduction of WM5 we can start looking at not needing to use PDF as well.

The reason Blackberry (my opinion) has been so succesful isn't the push capabilities, others offer better solutions. It is because they had better devices; simple to use and reliable (mainly). The other draw was that they marketed the Blackberry towards corporate people. This goes back to what I said earlier about the CEO's not having something a friend or competitor did have. No company wants to be seen as lagging behind their competition, so they jumped on the bandwagon. Which in turn caused more companies to jump on the Blackberry bandwagon.

One of the largest music chains in Australia went with the Blackberry system not to long ago. I know the head of their IT Department, we spoke about the Blackberry limitations and he knew them prior to going with the Blackberry solution. Why then did they go with Blackberry, simple... The managers wanted a simple and reliable system and everyone else had them (they literally mentioned to him that their friends had them).

If Microsoft wants to compete in the corporate mobile email environment the software and devices have to become simple and reliable. After getting that addressed they need to focus on marketing those devices and software to the corporate world. When a CEO looks at a XDA IIs and a Blackberry device, guees which one he will choose. In most cases once the CEO's etc. chooses a mobile email device the rest of the company gets the same type of device. It is rare that employees pick the mobile solution they want and senior management follows along, especially when the senior management can't use it.

That's where the 6515 and related devices come into play. The device has to be simple and reliable, the 6515 is (I own one). It isn't perfect, but the shortcomings don't interfere with its simplicity or reliabilty.

The new devices coming out that have the flip screens, sliding keyboards etc. will not get taken up by mainstreem corporate executives. Too big, too heavy and aren't simple enough. Obviously, they do appel to some, but most (if not all) of you reading this are more skilled with PDA's etc. than a lot of CEO's etc. The device needs to come out of the pocket/case, turn on and show what they need to see. Having to slide out a keyboard, rotate a screen etc. becomes an annoyance after awhile for those technology challenged.

As I said earlier, the 6515 is a great unit (not perfect) and does what we expected it to do. We initally had problems with the unit, but we fixed these. The problems were memory related and were resolved by moving all the apps we installed onto the iPAQ Store/mini SD areas. Currently we are running; Pocket Plus v3, PocketBreeze, ContactBreeze, MS Voice Command, Flexwallet, Pylon and ClearVue. Individual users also run other apps as well; such as Laridian, Money, CyProj, PI etc.

In regards to SP2, it will allow small/medium sized companies to start looking at using a push solution without some of the extra cost associated with Blackberry, Good, Pylon etc. solutions. This could be of great benefit to some companies, giving them an edge. With the release of devices like the 6515 and the Motorola 'Q', the choices available to those companies has become greater than just Blackberry now.

As I said earlier, software that does what the Blackberry solution does has been available for awhile. Yet, Blackberry has continued to advance. Now that there are devices coming out that directly compete against Blackberry devices you'll see a change. Companies already using Blackberry devices probably won't change devices out due to cost, but those who are new to adopting a solution or have been frustrated by the Blackberry one now have choices which really didn't exist before.

The 6515 single handidly isn't going to kill the Blackberry jaugernaut, however, it may be the beginning of a change that will bring balance back to the push email universe.

That's enough of a rant from me, I feel better. :D

Dave

[csterns]

Wow! This is all great reading while I am waiting for my newly arrived unit to charge. What I am surprised to see is that no one commented on the price PC Magazine showed - $450. Where can you get this unit for $450?

[fmcpherson]

Since the Q is a Smartphone it will not have the Mobile Office apps. Therefore, it will remain to be seen if it handles attachments better than RIM.

[Mr. PPC]

Since the Q is a Smartphone it will not have the Mobile Office apps. Therefore, it will remain to be seen if it handles attachments better than RIM.

Initially one could use ClearVue to read any attachment without the worry of having graphics removed etc.

[Hal Goldstein]

Wow! This is all great reading while I am waiting for my newly arrived unit to charge. What I am surprised to see is that no one commented on the price PC Magazine showed - $450. Where can you get this unit for $450?

Chris, you seem to be in U.S. Where did you buy it? HP informed us (at Pocket PC magazine) right before sending our issue to the printer featuring the Messenger on the cover, that they weren't going to ship in the U.S. yet!!! There was delay "for better customer experience" but no details. The obvious, but completely unconfirmed conclusion is that the final shipping U.S. version will be with Windows Mobile 5.

Hal Goldstein
Exec Editor/Publisher
Pocket PC magazine, www.pocketpcmag.com

[csterns]

I purchased a UK version and setting up now. Sweet!

[huangzhinong]

Wow! This is all great reading while I am waiting for my newly arrived unit to charge. What I am surprised to see is that no one commented on the price PC Magazine showed - $450. Where can you get this unit for $450?

Chris, you seem to be in U.S. Where did you buy it? HP informed us (at Pocket PC magazine) right before sending our issue to the printer featuring the Messenger on the cover, that they weren't going to ship in the U.S. yet!!! There was delay "for better customer experience" but no details. The obvious, but completely unconfirmed conclusion is that the final shipping U.S. version will be with Windows Mobile 5.

Hal Goldstein
Exec Editor/Publisher
Pocket PC magazine, www.pocketpcmag.com

Are you sure? If it turns out to be true, HW6515 has a new big selling point. I am pondering about it because I believe WM5 is very important for PPC phone, esp battery life and one hard operatation. I don't expect HP will provide upgrade for HW 6515 if HW6515 is shipped with WM2003SE, since HW6700 is already around the corner with 802.11g and WM5.

[csterns]

Well here's a bummer! I am trying to load a number of software programs on this unit (financial calculators or Pocket Calc) and the display cuts off half the calculator. Is it me or the PPC?

[PPCMD]

Since the HW6500 has a 240x240 display apps that do not automatically resize themselves to support that screen size get cutoff. You really need to email the software developer and ask them for to support it.

As for the delay if it is WM5 related that would be great, but I don't see that as the reason. HP has already launched it in several other markets and there is no valid reason that is immediately known for the delay.

HP's biggest issue is is there lack of info to their existing and potential customers. They are creating a vacum of rumors that do nothing other than hurt the product.

They need to say something soon.

[bnycastro]

maybe they (hp) are adopting a 'less talk; less mistake" attitude. i do agree that it is hurting current (and maybe a few potential) customers. get it together hp... the iPAQ brand is slowly being destroyed I think.

[csterns]

OK, now that I've had a couple of days of playing with this thing I'm not so thrilled about it. It's a great size unit, I love the phone, the BT Headset connection is great, the messenging and email is good but the limitations of the software is puzzling and the biggest issue is the lack of useable RAM. I just tried the GPS portion and downloaded my city (Orlando) and it doesn't even have my street. Mapopolis does.

Then this morning I tried to open Messenging and all I got was the hour glass spinning. I did a soft reset six times and tried and failed each time. Finally I did a hard reset and reinstalled the few programs I could but not all that I wanted and needed.

If the GPS maps are limited and I need access to maps then I'll have to put Mapopolis back on with all the maps I use. I can't use financial calculators which I need for my business which means I am back to carrying yet another device.

This sucks. Any recommendations for a Pocket PC phone the works well with BT. I-Mate doesn't, Seimens doesn't Samsung does but no DUN which I need. Thanks

[whydidnt]

OK, now that I've had a couple of days of playing with this thing I'm not so thrilled about it. It's a great size unit, I love the phone, the BT Headset connection is great, the messenging and email is good but the limitations of the software is puzzling and the biggest issue is the lack of useable RAM. I just tried the GPS portion and downloaded my city (Orlando) and it doesn't even have my street. Mapopolis does.


I think you are experiencing, in the real world, concerns many of us raised when this phone was announced. HP seems to have a hard time grasping what people want in a converged phone. The decision to go with the 240 x 240 screen, and limited hardware makes these phones not only problematic for power users, but also for the target market - average business users, who want a reliable phone and software. The final experience, sadly, is still less than what most can expect from a Treo or Blackberry.

Regarding the other phones listed - The imate's Bluetooth is greatly improved with recent upgrades, and if you browse the forum at www.pdaphonehome.com I think there is hack floating around that makes it possible to use DUN on the i730. The downside with the hack is when I last read about it, it killed Headset suport, so you have to swtich between headset and DUN support. I suspect, eventually someone will figure out a way to use both.

[csterns]

Thanks for the input. I have done all the updates with regards to BT and found no improvement with BT on my i-Mate PDA2k regardless of what headset I used. I have a graveyard of headsets and none working well with the i-Mate.

Now the Samsung is a different story. It's great except for the size. I am uncomfortable with the difficulty of sliding the phone in and out of the holster in fear of dropping it or not properly securing it and it falling out. It's not the fastest easiest thing to holster and unholster.

The applications and such are good. I'm really disappointed in the HP 6515 from a practical sense. It doesn't totally meet my expectations - lack of RAM, limited software ability and I think the processing speed is slow or sluggish. Heck voice command isn't working well with it either. Got to have VC for Pocket PC Phone. As for the camera, I don't need it.

Bottom line: it's not even a decent Pocket PC as it is configured. Slow speed, NO RAM storage and incompatible screen/software resolution.

Now what? A Treo or keep the Samsung?

[PPCMD]

From what I have read at DavesIpaq the GPS issue is more of a TomTom issue. Many users have very positive things to say about the 6515 and once its available in the US I will get one. It has a good balance of features I would use.

The 240x240 is not as much HP issue as it is the developers who were either too lazy or didn't think anyone would put out such a screen. So the sofware isn't updated, that is not HP's fault. Palm, I've been there and walked away. The only thing Palm can do for me now is offer a Treo WM5 with GSM. If the app doesn't fit emailt he developer and ask them to fix it.

The only reason I am holding off is I would prefer the US version with the US GPS software, no TomTom for me and the poor performance.

[crispeto]

I'm currently using the 7100t Blackberry. A decent PDA, internet, can view images, can view word attachments and I just recently put the NIV bible on it. I still like my axim x30H but I find I take it with me much less since I got the blackberry. And the 7100t is free after rebate so it makes it a simple affordable solution.

[Mr. PPC]

OK, now that I've had a couple of days of playing with this thing I'm not so thrilled about it. It's a great size unit, I love the phone, the BT Headset connection is great, the messenging and email is good but the limitations of the software is puzzling and the biggest issue is the lack of useable RAM. I just tried the GPS portion and downloaded my city (Orlando) and it doesn't even have my street. Mapopolis does.

Then this morning I tried to open Messenging and all I got was the hour glass spinning. I did a soft reset six times and tried and failed each time. Finally I did a hard reset and reinstalled the few programs I could but not all that I wanted and needed.

I would recommend you try what we did, move your apps to the iPAQ Storage/mini SD area. Since we did this, memory related problems disapeared.

Not sure what you meant by limitations of software. Are you referring to the software included with the iPAQ or third-party apps (suspect you meant these)? You have to remember, this is the first 240x240 device released for the consumer. As such, the developers will have to adjust their software to work within the screen size. Which in some cases isn't a big deal, others will be very difficult as it will require a major rethink of their screen layout etc.

If you use specific software I would speak to the developer about support for the 240x240 screen before buying the unit. I suspect that some developers may not add support for this feature as it requires additional work that they may not see as worth it.

If the GPS maps are limited and I need access to maps then I'll have to put Mapopolis back on with all the maps I use. I can't use financial calculators which I need for my business which means I am back to carrying yet another device.

This sucks. Any recommendations for a Pocket PC phone the works well with BT. I-Mate doesn't, Seimens doesn't Samsung does but no DUN which I need. Thanks

Inaccurate maps aren't the fault of the HP unit, but the map company. Unfortunetly, we have the same problem with Sensis Navigator here in Australia (two month trial version included with 6515 here). It told me to take the third exit from the round-a-bout, it had been changed to a stop light a year ago. I ran into several problems as a result of Sensis using old maps.

I'm currently using the 7100t Blackberry. A decent PDA, internet, can view images, can view word attachments and I just recently put the NIV bible on it. I still like my axim x30H but I find I take it with me much less since I got the blackberry. And the 7100t is free after rebate so it makes it a simple affordable solution.

Can you view images embeded in the attachments, Word &amp; PDF?

Dave

[surur]

I'm sorry csterns, but it appears to me that you jumped into buying this new device without doing any research at all. You should have known that the 240x240 screen would limit usability of e.g. calculators and games. People had predicted it for some time. You should have known this device with only 64Mb ram was really designed for wm5, and would not work very well with wm2003se.

Your complaints sounds like some-one who bought a BMW mini and complain that it doesnt go very fast on the freeway and doesnt do cross country very well. What did you expect when you bought such a limited device?

Anyone could have predicted your problems just from seeing the specs of this device. You did not have to buy the device to experience it for yourself. HP screwed up by releasing this device with wm2003se, and I hope they correct it soon.

I hope I do not come of as too harsh, but this device will never live up to its potential until HP releases it with WM 5, and more software designed with the 240x240 screen get released. Until then its a very specialized device that should be bought only after great amount of thought as to the needs of the user and the apps they intend to use.

Surur

[Hal Goldstein]

&lt;&lt;Are you sure>>

Positive. HP and Cingular both contacted us right before the issue was to go to the printer.

[crispeto]

My Blackberry 7100t can view image attachments but not that are within a word or pdf document. I have to email my pics to my gmail account which is the account I use on my blackberry.

[csterns]

Where does one go to get US Maps? I've looked all over Tom Tom website and cannot figure out where to get the maps?