Windows Mobile 5.0 iPAQ Mobile Messengers on the Horizon

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://h41111.bbn-stage.europe.hp.com/gomobile/uk/en/learning_centre/videos/vp_ipaq_hw6700/index.html' target='_blank'>http://h41111.bbn-stage.europe.hp.c...6700/index.html</a><br /><br /></div><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050811-hw6xxx-01.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050811-hw6xxx-02.jpg" /></a><br /><i>Click the image above for a larger view.</i><br /><br />HP UK has posted a quick overview of the hw6700 Mobile Messenger series - and yes, if you read that title correctly, it appears as though Windows Mobile 5.0 will be made available on these devices. The hw6710 and hw6715 features the same Intel PXA270 312MHz processor that existed in the hw6500 series, but now sports 128MB ROM alongside the 64MB RAM. Size and weight are the same - 7.1cm x 2.1cm x 11.8cm (165g). In addition to the quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE, Bluetooth and IR, the hw6700 series now features 802.11g Wi-Fi. Note the hw6715 features a 1.3MP camera (like the hw6515) and both the hw6710 and hw6715 have the same 3.0" QVGA screen seen in the hw6500 series. Of interest to some is the fact that the hw6700 series does not have an SD slot, unlike its hw6500 counterpart. <!><br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050811-hw6xxx-03.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050811-hw6xxx-04.jpg" /></a><br /><i>Click the image above for a larger view.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050811-hw6xxx-05.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050811-hw6xxx-06.jpg" /></a><br /><i>Click the image above for a larger view.</i><br /><br />Start drooling! :drool:

[njl2016]

Windows Mobile 2005 Second Edition, Phone Edition. Huh? Must be a typo

[Darius Wey]

Windows Mobile 2005 Second Edition, Phone Edition. Huh? Must be a typo

Yeah, that's a bit of an oddity, but easily disregarded (I think). They may just be referring to the inclusion of the MSFP.

[brianchris]

Wow, a second generation version for a device whose original hasn't even been released yet....now THAT"S progress :lol:

All kidding aside, this is a great device! I was seriously considering the original version, but the lack of WiFi and WM 2005 were a few hangups......viola, both are present in the new version (and 802.11g no less, a first emeded in a PDA?). NOW I just have to decide how important VGA is to me, and that will dictate my next Pocket PC.

Let us hope the delay for this thing launching (in the U.S. at least) is that Cingular has been waiting for / preparing these baby's instead!

[Duncan]

So - you get a more power hungry version of WiFi (and more bandwidth than you need) but have the same battery size, the same absurdly low resolution (why on earth not 480 x 480?) and, in the process, lose the SD slot?

I see HP haven't got their clue back yet... :roll:

[q-live]

my thing is after the last garbage @$$ phone they released for tmobile who would buy this one :( :( :( :evil: :evil:

[ADBrown]

Windows Mobile 2005 Second Edition, Phone Edition. Huh? Must be a typo

Yeah, that's a bit of an oddity, but easily disregarded (I think). They may just be referring to the inclusion of the MSFP.

Those screenshots certainly don't look like Windows Mobile 5.0. If it's a typo, I might be inclined to believe that they meant Windows Mobile 2003.

[JuhaN]

These new WM devices keep getting better and better... Wifi was the only missing feature in hw65xx. Now I have to decide: hw6715 or HTC Wizard?!

=)juha

[alex_kac]

So - you get a more power hungry version of WiFi (and more bandwidth than you need) but have the same battery size, the same absurdly low resolution (why on earth not 480 x 480?) and, in the process, lose the SD slot?

I see HP haven't got their clue back yet... :roll:

How is g more power hungry than b? They are on the same gigahertz range. Granted, I'm really not an expert on that, but I'd think they'd be the same power.

I do agree about 480x480 - EXCEPT that I can attest to the fact that high res screens SUCK power like anything, so I guess that's why. I also wish the unit had a higher battery rating, but again - its a compromise in that it would require a bigger unit.

Frankly, the 6700 is the ONLY unit I've ever seen that makes me not care so much about VGA.

[Duncan]

So - you get a more power hungry version of WiFi (and more bandwidth than you need) but have the same battery size, the same absurdly low resolution (why on earth not 480 x 480?) and, in the process, lose the SD slot?

I see HP haven't got their clue back yet... :roll:

How is g more power hungry than b? They are on the same gigahertz range. Granted, I'm really not an expert on that, but I'd think they'd be the same power.

That's a good point. I'm sure I remember it being pointed out as more power hungry around about the time it was ratified - but now I think about it I can't say it for certain so I may well be mistaken.

I do agree about 480x480 - EXCEPT that I can attest to the fact that high res screens SUCK power like anything, so I guess that's why. I also wish the unit had a higher battery rating, but again - its a compromise in that it would require a bigger unit.

I couldn't leave behind VGA having experienced it - but for the right specs could be persuaded to go for 480 x 480. 240 x 240, however, is a huge leap backwards - worse even than QVGA. I can hear Treo 650 users giggling from here - and I don't blame them...!

Frankly, the 6700 is the ONLY unit I've ever seen that makes me not care so much about VGA.

For me the unit has too many major strikes against it - very low res screen, small battery (for a triple wireless device), mini-SD slot only - and the 6500 as its origin (sure - companies produce great products and poor products - but this is the 6500 with small changes, a PPC phone so bad phone companies didn't want to sell it...!)

Compare the HTC Wizard/Apache, or the Magician, or the WM Treo 670 (if genuine) - they all make the 6700 look, frankly, a bit rubbish - with the 6700 offering only a gimmick (802.11g) to get people to ignore how poorly specc'ed it is in every other respect (and to wipe the 6500 disaster from peopl's minds).

JMHO mind...!

[alex_kac]

It is triple wireless - but who says you are going to use all 3 simultaneously? Odds are you'll use one or two at any one time.

I only use VGA screens today. But frankly, I have a hard time carrying my PPC around with me unless I know I will need it because of the size. So I have no problem with 240x240, though I'd prefer 480x480 I just understand the concept that when you want something _small_, you can't have large battery with large screen size.

I really don't like the Wizard or Apache. Just way too underpowered, way too big. Now a WM Treo...that interests me, except that I won't get Wifi, I won't get GPS, and probably will suck on RAM.

I really cannot see how EITHER the 6500 OR the 6700 are poorly specced or "disasters". They are very very nicely specced devices targeted at exactly my market. They are not targeted at yours. And that's not a problem. That is why we have choice in devices.

Anybody looking for a perfect device that will satisfy every single range of mobile user is going to be severely disappointed.

[Darius Wey]

Wow, a second generation version for a device whose original hasn't even been released yet....now THAT"S progress :lol:

Well, it's been slow in the USA. Elsewhere, particularly in the Asian-Pacific region, the hw6500 has been released for quite some time.

[Darius Wey]

Yeah, that's a bit of an oddity, but easily disregarded (I think). They may just be referring to the inclusion of the MSFP.

Those screenshots certainly don't look like Windows Mobile 5.0. If it's a typo, I might be inclined to believe that they meant Windows Mobile 2003.

That was my initial thought. However, the wording of the intro screen does suggest the inclusion of Windows Mobile 5.0.

"Featuring extended memory, WLAN, and new Microsoft Windows Mobile 2005 software, Phone Edition."

Of course, one might question why HP seem bent on using the Windows Mobile 2005 name. Microsoft changed it to "5.0" months ago.

[Menneisyys]

I do agree about 480x480 - EXCEPT that I can attest to the fact that high res screens SUCK power like anything, so I guess that's why.

Well, the screen could be switched off. Furthermore, two of the current hi-end VGA devices, the Pocket Loox 720 and the iPAQ hx4700 both have decent battery life, even in comparison with QVGA devices (my PL720 has much better availability (about 12-13 hours) than my iPAQ 2210 (about 7-8 hours) when used for PIM functions or light Web browsing via BT. So, high-res screens, when backed up with the right hardware, don't necessarily consume THAT much power.

[Darius Wey]

Well, the screen could be switched off. Furthermore, two of the current hi-end VGA devices, the Pocket Loox 720 and the iPAQ hx4700 both have decent battery life, even in comparison with QVGA devices (my PL720 has much better availability (about 12-13 hours) than my iPAQ 2210 (about 7-8 hours) when used for PIM functions or light Web browsing via BT. So, high-res screens, when backed up with the right hardware, don't necessarily consume THAT much power.

Of course, with Windows Mobile 5.0, battery life is lengthened regardless of the battery capacity. :)

[jlp]

So - you get a more power hungry version of WiFi (and more bandwidth than you need) but have the same battery size, the same absurdly low resolution (why on earth not 480 x 480?) and, in the process, lose the SD slot?

I see HP haven't got their clue back yet... :roll:

How is g more power hungry than b? They are on the same gigahertz range. Granted, I'm really not an expert on that, but I'd think they'd be the same power.

I'm NO technician, but it seems quite obvious to me that if you pump x times more bits per the same second it should suck up more juice, shouldn't it??

8)

[Menneisyys]

So - you get a more power hungry version of WiFi (and more bandwidth than you need) but have the same battery size, the same absurdly low resolution (why on earth not 480 x 480?) and, in the process, lose the SD slot?

I see HP haven't got their clue back yet... :roll:

How is g more power hungry than b? They are on the same gigahertz range. Granted, I'm really not an expert on that, but I'd think they'd be the same power.

I'm NO technician, but it seems quite obvious to me that if you pump x times more bits per the same second it should suck up more juice, shouldn't it??

8)

The processing requirements (assuming the same encoding/ physical radiowave modulation) are indeed higher. With a modem example, you won't be use to use, say, 2-state phase modulation but 4-phase. This requires more processing power.

AFAIK b and g uses the same RF maximal output power, so, bigger output power to make SNR higher are out of question. Therefore, it's only the processing (A/D / D/A) requirements are higher, which, IMHO, don't necessarily lead to much higher power consumption. (Unless the circuitry that does this indeed consumes far more power while doing A/D / D/A translation and wave (de)modulation at a far higher transfer rate. I don't know if that's the case - unfortunately, avauilable tests like that of Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Reviews-177-ProdID-WCF54G.php) haven't tested/compared power consumption.)

[bnycastro]

Does the HTC Wizard come with SD or miniSD (I think I read that it was miniSD as well)? Another question can this connect to my existing 11b network or do I need a 11g network to use WiFi on the hw67xx

[stevelam]

Does the HTC Wizard come with SD or miniSD (I think I read that it was miniSD as well)? Another question can this connect to my existing 11b network or do I need a 11g network to use WiFi on the hw67xx

Yes IEEE802.11g (to give is full name) IS backward combatible with IEEE802.11b

[Jason Lee]

What is with all the new ppc phones only having mini-sd???! 8O

Give me my CF slot back, damnit!

[Pinnacle]

It is triple wireless - but who says you are going to use all 3 simultaneously? Odds are you'll use one or two at any one time.

I only use VGA screens today. But frankly, I have a hard time carrying my PPC around with me unless I know I will need it because of the size. So I have no problem with 240x240, though I'd prefer 480x480 I just understand the concept that when you want something _small_, you can't have large battery with large screen size.

I really don't like the Wizard or Apache. Just way too underpowered, way too big. Now a WM Treo...that interests me, except that I won't get Wifi, I won't get GPS, and probably will suck on RAM.

I really cannot see how EITHER the 6500 OR the 6700 are poorly specced or "disasters". They are very very nicely specced devices targeted at exactly my market. They are not targeted at yours. And that's not a problem. That is why we have choice in devices.

Anybody looking for a perfect device that will satisfy every single range of mobile user is going to be severely disappointed.
Well said, Alex. The 6500 series has not been a disaster in any realm. I'm sure he means the 6300 series, but you'd think someone who's a master at criticizing this device would get their facts straight.

I've owned the 6515 for the past three weeks, and it is perfect for what I want, 240x240 and all. I travel for business frequently and get bombarded with email. The GPS (using Mapopolis, personally) and keyboard are saviors.

The unit is not without fault. Battery life on this one is not great for power users. There havebeen a few user issues with the cradle losing USB connection completely, regardless of the PC it's attached to. Overall, though, HP did a fine job with functionality vs. size. It even comes with a flip-style screen cover and a belt holster (blackberry-style).

[brianchris]

I've owned the 6515 for the past three weeks

While there are probably a number of ways to get one in the US, how, specifically did you get yours, was it unlocked and/or which wireless provider are you using it with?

[Duncan]

Well said, Alex. The 6500 series has not been a disaster in any realm. I'm sure he means the 6300 series, but you'd think someone who's a master at criticizing this device would get their facts straight.

Actually I was referring to the 6300 series. I made a mistake - which I readily admit.

Not sure where you get the 'master at criticizing this device' from?! Sure I criticise in this thread - and the majority of my criticisms stand - but you make it sound like I'm on a crusade...! Just giving my opinions y'know... :)

On another point I made earlier - I did some checking and found a tedious technical document that said, basically, that 802.11g is actually more efficient than 802.11b and so actually uses less power. Which is surprising (though 802.11a uses more). So I take back that criticism.

Now - if it wasn't for the pathetic resolution (nothing could persuade me that 240 x 240 isn't a huge step backwards) and mini-SD then this could be a good machine. As it stands, however, they make it machina non grata to me...

[jeasher]

I've owned the 6515 for the past three weeks

While there are probably a number of ways to get one in the US, how, specifically did you get yours, was it unlocked and/or which wireless provider are you using it with?Also, how is the phone reception? Speakerphone volume? BT connectivity decent? And finally, does it have voice tags? Thanks.

[Pinnacle]

I've owned the 6515 for the past three weeks

While there are probably a number of ways to get one in the US, how, specifically did you get yours, was it unlocked and/or which wireless provider are you using it with?
I took the over-priced, high stakes, route of purchasing the unit off of eBay from a Singapore seller. Ended up being a great seller. Yes, it's unlocked and I'm using it on TMobile USA with EDGE speeds in the Denver area.

Duncan, OK..."crusade" seems a bit overdone, I admit. You oftentimes have a strong tone on devices that are not for you equating into it's not for others, as well. VGA is very nice, having used a V50x for awhile; but I require a converged device that's small enough to take anywhere. The 6515 isn't tiny, by any means, but it works by having my phone and PPC with me at all times, plus communicator and GPS navigator.

[Pinnacle]

Reception is outstanding. Although many reviews of pre-production units have praised the speakerphone volume, I find it weak. It's not unusable, but it can't be used in a noisy environment. On the other hand, music and audio played through the speaker is probably the best I've heard on a PPC. Weird, I know, how it can be different for media and phone functions; but this has been verified by other users on www.davesipaq.com forums.

Bluetooth is oustanding; it even conects to the HP BT Stereo Headphones without a hitch. Negative on voicetags built-in; you'll have to install MS Voicecommand to get anything close to this, I believe. I haven't tried this personally, though.

[Duncan]

Duncan, OK..."crusade" seems a bit overdone, I admit. You oftentimes have a strong tone on devices that are not for you equating into it's not for others, as well.

I think you are reading more into what I said than was there. Sure - if I don't like a device I'm not shy in saying so - but then why not? I gave my opinions on the device - but in no way said or implied that it wasn't for others - indeed I prefaced my second post with the words 'For me' and ended with 'JMHO' - which makes it pretty clear that I'm talking about whether the device is for me and just giving a personal opinion... :)

[inteller]

you can never have enough bandwidth.

The only failure of this phone is no EV-DO version. That with bluetooth teathering would make it actually useful.

[jeasher]

Reception is outstanding. Although many reviews of pre-production units have praised the speakerphone volume, I find it weak. It's not unusable, but it can't be used in a noisy environment. On the other hand, music and audio played through the speaker is probably the best I've heard on a PPC. Weird, I know, how it can be different for media and phone functions; but this has been verified by other users on www.davesipaq.com forums.

Bluetooth is oustanding; it even conects to the HP BT Stereo Headphones without a hitch. Negative on voicetags built-in; you'll have to install MS Voicecommand to get anything close to this, I believe. I haven't tried this personally, though.Thanks.

[Jonathan1]

That's great! Now where's my bloody 4705 ROM upgrade!!!! :cry:

[bnycastro]

Though I'm not a fan of changing flash formats I'd say if miniSD performs like SD and consumes less power (I assume from the size that it uses less) then I'd make the switch (of course buying a MPx 220 with miniSD has helped me appreciate miniSD more)... I might start selling my SD cards and get a miniSD equivalent (since an adapter comes with purchase I can use it in my SD devices and miniSD devices).
--
Still undecided if I'd pick the hw67xx over the HTC Wiz though... waiting for those reviews... :wink: hehehe

[AximMeister]

Count me in ... I want it now :D :D :D
Not bothered about 240x240. Convenient device for me.

[ADBrown]

I'd say if miniSD performs like SD and consumes less power (I assume from the size that it uses less)

Not really. Flash memory's power consumption is already negligible, and a decrease in size isn't likely to bring much if any decrease in power consumption. Even if it did, the change would probably be on the order of a minute or two of extra battery life per charge.

[L44WSN]

I've seen many articles relating to the Windows Mobile 2005 and the new mobile messenger.
Doesnt Windows Mobile 2005 use softkeys which the mobile messenger is lacking? Also would HP really want to put Windows Mobile 2005 on a machine whith an almost retired processor speed?

I think The mobile messenger is amazing but its lacking in so many areas.

[Darius Wey]

I've seen many articles relating to the Windows Mobile 2005 and the new mobile messenger.
Doesnt Windows Mobile 2005 use softkeys which the mobile messenger is lacking?

The Pocket PC still has a touch screen, so a softkey layout on a device which lacks dedicated hardware softkeys is still possible - because (a) the left and right softkeys can still be mapped to existing buttons, and (b) you can still tap on the left and right softkeys on the screen. Take the X50/X50v for example - it will still be receiving Windows Mobile 5.0 despite it lacking hardware softkeys.

Also would HP really want to put Windows Mobile 2005 on a machine whith an almost retired processor speed?

I don't see why not. Windows Mobile 5.0's requirements aren't composed of a whiz-bang processor. Upcoming Windows Mobile 5.0-ready devices will have processors starting from as low as 200MHz. What the hw6515/hw6715 has now will be able to handle the job, IMO.

[GAZ112142]

:?: Just wondering that there are not new post about the Ipaq 69xx, does anyone know when and where we can get it? Not gussing, knowing!

[Darius Wey]

:?: Just wondering that there are not new post about the Ipaq 69xx, does anyone know when and where we can get it? Not gussing, knowing!

It was previously given the Q2, 2006 release date, though more specific details have since surfaced - so, it's now June, 2006.