hx4700 - Frustrated with memory configuration...

[sgt-spam]

I recently (yesterday) upgraded from a H5550 to a hx4700. I had several initial reactions, but the memory configuration is what prompted me to post.

First off, I would consider myself (as others do) fairly obsessive / compulsive when it comes to my computing devices... Everything needs to be neat and in order - to the point that I load all my software, configure everything, and then run several optimizations before I back up the device (as a form of image) and then partner the device with my computer.

On the H5550, this worked flawlessly for me. I could install my heavily used applications to RAM and still have plenty of breathing room for running programs. On average I'd say I had 30-40MB of installed programs, utilities, and games. The file store went untouched except for my PIM mirroring and a basic settings backup (for owner name and other misc. items) that I ran after a hard reset.

I was extremely disappointed to find that I couldn't install my primary apps. to main memory on the hx4700 (because of the amount of space required), and that there was really only about 64MB available to share between storage and program execution. A quick search revealed there's no way to shrink the size of the file store (85MB?!) to leave more main memory.

I have a 256MB SD card I use for my maps, and it's basically full. I understand some programs NEED to be installed to main memory, but most can be installed other places. I know I can install to the file store or my SD card, but that leaves the directory structure of those places a mess (things don't go to a 'Program Files' directory). I have the option of renaming the file store through a 3rd party utility, which I suppose would work.

Finally to the purpose of this post... Where do you install apps? What capacity cards to you use, and what type? Are there any utilities available that might make life easier on me?

I suppose I've got a year or so before I can send the device away for a RAM upgrade...

[ziggurat29]

shrink the size of the file store (85MB?!)

That file store you mention is ROM. I would suggest installing your apps in it with wont abandon. Plus, it survives a hard-reset.

Personally, I never wiggle the slider for 'program/storage' on the memory settings applet. The system winds up moving it for me appropriately anyway as I use the device. Since my apps are in the iPAQ file store, most of the memory winds up being used for running apps rather than storing them.

Regarding memory upgrades, you can do that, but you might also consider upgrading you OS later this summer instead. Much of the stuff the OS stores in RAM will be moved to ROM, and all your programs will go there. This should help with the RAM situation as give a battery lifetime boost as well. Rather than going into detail here, you may search on the topic 'Persistent Storage' (that's what they're calling it in WM2005).

[yankeejeep]

As pointed out above, the file store area is ROM and even if you could change its size, it would not make a bit of difference in the amount of RAM available. On the plus side, the ROM area will become the default installation location in WM5 (where you will see it referred to as persistent storage) with two primary results for the end-user. Your main memory (RAM) will be used for app execution with storage being done in ROM unless you specify otherwise. Then, with storage in ROM, you will not lose all the items in the event of a hard reset. ROM being non-volatile, a no-power situation is not the 'kiss of death' it has been. If fact, as long as RAM is reserved solely for program execution, you will be able to actually turn power completely off (not an available option now; we can only minimize battery usage) and still not have any issues when turning the unit back on.

So use the file store area as much as possible to retain files and apps through a hard reset. You will still (with WM2003SE) need to restore from a backup to get back things like the registry (needed to actually use the apps installed to the file store area) and items stored in main memory. In the long run, though, I think you will find it preferable to giving up a significant portion of RAM to file and app storage.

[sgt-spam]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I will proceed with installing programs to the file store area, and will also start in on the WM5 research.

Over all, I'm very pleased with the device. Had this been out of my own pocket, I probably would not have spent the money. I'll have to remember to thank my boss. :-)

[yankeejeep]

Watch for HP to announce release a WM5 ROM update for the 4700 line toward the end of summer or the beginning of fall. I think they mentioned early Q3 as the target when they announced that they would update some models (including the 4700s) with WM5.

Even with the current OS, you will find most apps will happily run from either file store or a memory card. As a general rule of thumb, apps that run as a part of your startup process and Today screen plug-ins should be installed to RAM (main memory) because the ROM memory locations do not initialize until late in the startup cycle. Others generally function fine regardless of where they are installed. To some extent, there will be some trial and error involved for you to identify any specific apps you use that have a noticable performance hit when installed to an alternate memory spot and so deserve the storage bite out of RAM.

[Hx4700]

A little free program called cab-install from s-k-tools.com will let you install to sub-directories in file store or sd/cf cards. This will let you organize the way you want. Of course, there are still some programs that only can be installed in main memory and some you want in main memory.
Ron...

[sgt-spam]

A little free program called cab-install from s-k-tools.com will let you install to sub-directories in file store or sd/cf cards.
Wow! Thank you!!

Just what I needed!

[sgt-spam]

Even with the current OS, you will find most apps will happily run from either file store or a memory card. As a general rule of thumb, apps that run as a part of your startup process and Today screen plug-ins should be installed to RAM (main memory) because the ROM memory locations do not initialize until late in the startup cycle.
I've been reading this very thing... As I build the device, I've been trying to get everything I possibly can into ROM. Unfortunately the device begins to perform VERY poorly.

I'll start reloading again and load all my 'Today' items into RAM.


Again, thanks. :D

[Hx4700]

Also any programs that work with the guts of the machine like HackMaster, Register editors, Cleaners, and other "tool kits" I put in main memory.
Like > s-k-tools > I bought this program just as much as a thank you for Cab-install as for what it does - which is a lot.
Tweak2k2 is also a must have toolkit.
Ron...

[yankeejeep]

Definitely get Tweaks2k2 if you don't have it yet. One of the best purchases I have made and always the first app to go on a PPC that passes through my hands. You could track down all the hacks yourself, but worth many times its price to have them all gathered together and available in a very nice interface.

[Menneisyys]

A little free program called cab-install from s-k-tools.com will let you install to sub-directories in file store or sd/cf cards.
Wow! Thank you!!

Just what I needed!

You may also want to read http://www.vancouverpocketpc.com/CAB_installation_tweak.html on this subject.

[Hx4700]

Very Interesting 8)
While I can change the register with PHM and I use Tweaks2k2, I'm not sure I would give up CabInstal.
I seem to do a hard reset and program rebuilt more ofter than I like. I have a spreadsheet of the programs I use with version and Keys. Loading CabInstal doesn't seem that much harder than the reg hacks.
CabInstal runs the cab files from anywhere and also lets you not delete it if you wish. Is there anything else I'm missing without the hacking???
JMHO....
Ron....

[Menneisyys]

Is there anything else I'm missing without the hacking???


Yes, for example, the ability to install all your programs going to the File Store/your cards in one common directory (like \Program Files in RAM).

See my tutorial here (http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=774734) on this if interested.

[Hx4700]

Sorry - I wasn't clear on my question :oops:
I meant > am I missing anything by using all the options I mentioned available with CabInstal (such as loading to a sub-directory in FileStore or cards) vs using what the hacks can do???
Thanks...
Ron...

[Menneisyys]

Sorry - I wasn't clear on my question :oops:
I meant > am I missing anything by using all the options I mentioned available with CabInstal (such as loading to a sub-directory in FileStore or cards) vs using what the hacks can do???
Thanks...
Ron...

Nope. Just the easiness of installation and the ActiveSync-compliance. All these are offered by File Dialog Changer.

[Menneisyys]

BTW, here's a full-fledged, self-standing version of my tutorial (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=356534).

[Hx4700]

Thanks -- these are good hacks - maybe they will be included in Tweaks2k2 in the future.
But for the reasons I mentioned, I'll stay with CabInstal for now.
Ron...

[sgt-spam]

Thanks for all the info - I've learned quite a bit!

Because of CAB Installer, I found all my CABs and moved them onto my 1GB SD so they're easily accessible. I noticed that some of the items I installed with CAB Installer didn't show in the Remove Programs control panel.

So far everything I install with the Dialog Changer method appears in Remove Programs, which is great, but a question about the Dialog Changer, if I may... Has anyone noticed their device soft reset when attempting to install certain CABs?

For example, Namco's Galaga CAB, when executed, causes a soft reset and I'm unable to install it. MemMaid is another, and if I remember correctly, Pocket Mini-Golf, too.


Thanks!!!

[Menneisyys]

For example, Namco's Galaga CAB, when executed, causes a soft reset and I'm unable to install it. MemMaid is another, and if I remember correctly, Pocket Mini-Golf, too.


Yes, that's indeed a problem, which I only recently have noticed. Please read my today's post in the same thread.

Unfortunately, the hack can't be used with some CAB's.

[sgt-spam]

I really appreciate all the information here - THANK YOU!

I've gone back to the CAB installer - it seems to be working very well for me so far, and I LOVE the fact that I can put the apps in the subdirectory of my choice.

8)