CNET: "Handhelds Users Love to Hate"

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3127_7-6262007-1.html?tag=promo2' target='_blank'>http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3127_7...html?tag=promo2</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050716-Dud.jpg" /><br /><br />We've all seen articles about which PDAs are great, but what about which PDAs we love to hate? CNET has done just that! They've put together a short article on which PDAs users find most frustrating. PalmOne (or should I now say, Palm, after its fifty-billionth name change) took the honours with two dud devices - the Tungsten T5 and the Treo 650. The Pocket PC offered just one - surprise, surprise, the featureless iPAQ rz1710. Any of you care to comment? Do you agree or disagree with these choices, and are there any devices missing from that list?

[Legendz]

"And then there's the PalmOne Treo 650. While you guys don't hate it, you weren't as enamored with the smart phone as we were (an average score of 6.0 vs. 8.3), calling out its unreliability and its poor performance as a phone."

Doesn't sound too much like a dud. I guess I am just lucky with the Treo650 I have as I don't have that unreliablity and poor performance as a phone. As a phone, I love it. Nice, big buttons for touchscreen, great to have if your driving and want to type in the numbers with that. Though that is kinda ol school, have to go with Voice calling, much safer too. :D Voice quality is great, but I like to keep it on the belt and just talk with bluetooth headsets. As a PDA, it is my multimedia player. I don't have to worry bout gettin one of them big, clunky "Mediaplayer' only devices. It can last quite a bit just playing movies. Great way to pass the time during traffice.Personally I think they should have replaced the Treo 650 with the T3. Hate that whole sliding thingamabob. Or just maybe that VZ90, JUST because its sooo freakin expensive that I can't get it. :oops:

[Menneisyys]

took the honours with two dud devices - the Tungsten T5 and the Treo 650. The Pocket PC offered just one - surprise, surprise, the featureless iPAQ rz1710. Any of you care to comment? Do you agree or disagree with these choices, and are there any devices missing from that list?

Well, nominating the low-end Zire 21 would have been more reasonable, as long as only the low-end rz1715 is nominated as the only PPC. The T5 and the Treo 650 are pretty good devices IMHO. Or, as far as Pocket PC's are concerned, the h6315 (bugs, no upgrades) and the rx3715 (File Store problems) should also have been nominated :devilboy:

[Kowalski]

i agree, h6315 should be in the list too!

[surur]

The LifeDrive should be joining that list soon.

There is many posts on the Brighthand LifeDrive forum of people who start of saying what a wonderful device it is, and in a week or two calling it "that damn thing".

Look at this person's posting history for example:
http://discussion.brighthand.com/palmhandhelds/search.php?s=ed2431448713f5eb57a2dc14f4703c5a&amp;action=showresults&amp;searchid=1238630

This one is particularly sad.

Despite alot of problems lately I have finally figured out how to make my LD work great. All it requires appears to be a secure reset each day followed by reloading all apps and reconfiguring Versamail etc. And it will work perfectly for about 24 hours and then I'll start getting soft resets and error messages. It's like it loses files during the course of the day.

Does any BackUp software work well on the LD and back up all files, apps, settings etc? I've seen BackupMan suggested but I've also read reviews saying that they are getting resets trying to use it. I've also read people having problems with BackUpBuddy.

Anything work really well?

Surur

[mangochutneyman]

You can call the Treo 650 a dud, but apparently alot more people love it than hate it b/c sales of the 650 have been very strong...

The T5 on the other hand, I agree with...

[MitchellO]

I can understand the T5 (no WiFi, silly palm. palmOne, mlap, whatever!), and the rz1710 is just crap, but not sure why the Treo 650 got a mention.

When I first read the title I expected the 6315 to be in there.

[Heavy Eddie]

IMO

I know I will get a lot of kick back on this one... but I love to hate my x50/v. I am like many other folks on this site have had many, many PDA through the years. Heck, I was an early adopter of the original PalmPilot.

I love the VGA capabilities of the Axim x50/v. I hate how large it is. I hate the very poor battery performance. I hate that it isn't instant on... takes a longer than any other pda to be useable after you hit the power button. I hate how often it crashes (Although to be fair, this could be some beta products I'm using)

Why do I keep it? VGA. If I could have a VGA pda in the form factor and reliability of my old HP1945, I would be a happy man.

[Menneisyys]

I hate the very poor battery performance.

Speaking of battery life, the Asus a730(w) should also have been included in the "crap" list :)

[MitchellO]

IMOWhy do I keep it? VGA. If I could have a VGA pda in the form factor and reliability of my old HP1945, I would be a happy man.

I wish the same thing in my Mini. I think I could put up with a larger PDA phone for VGA. I've got my eyes on the Universal.......

[ipaq_wannabe]

everything after the Palm Vx can be called a DUD

... basically, the PalmOS-based devices that shone after the Vx are all Sony-based...

- first OS5 handheld
- first HighRes and HighRes+
- first virtual graffiti
- first dual slot
etc. etc. etc.

Palm/PalmOne/etc. etc. --- you suck... you cannot even agree on your identity (keep on changing your name)...

[Menneisyys]

everything after the Palm Vx can be called a DUD

... basically, the PalmOS-based devices that shone after the Vx are all Sony-based...

- first OS5 handheld
- first HighRes and HighRes+
- first virtual graffiti
- first dual slot
etc. etc. etc.


Well, I really don't want to start faith wars, but I think there really have been shining palmOne models. Check out for example this thread (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18888) ;)

[shawnc]

Doesn't sound too much like a dud. I guess I am just lucky with the Treo650 I have as I don't have that unreliablity and poor performance as a phone. As a phone, I love it. Nice, big buttons for touchscreen, great to have if your driving and want to type in the numbers with that. Though that is kinda ol school, have to go with Voice calling, much safer too. :D Voice quality is great, but I like to keep it on the belt and just talk with bluetooth headsets. As a PDA, it is my multimedia player. I don't have to worry bout gettin one of them big, clunky "Mediaplayer' only devices. It can last quite a bit just playing movies. Great way to pass the time during traffice.Personally I think they should have replaced the Treo 650 with the T3. Hate that whole sliding thingamabob. Or just maybe that VZ90, JUST because its sooo freakin expensive that I can't get it. :oops:

I just think some people like to show how smart they are by bashing the technical features of the Treo. This goes all the way back to the Treo 300 series. Undoubtable there are some flaws with the device (memory management for one just boggles the mind), but all-in-all it is likely the best device on the market for the majority of users. Compact, ease of use, excellent sound quality, digital music player, etc. I've played with one and love it. It was one of my difficult decisions when deciding whether to go with my RAZR or the Treo 650. Very happy with my RAZR, but the Treo is the best converged device out there IMHO.

[Tim Rapson]

IMO
If I could have a VGA pda in the form factor and reliability of my old HP1945, I would be a happy man.

When talking about duds of design, the most amazing thing is how the makers so often go backwards.

I doubt you could find a soul here who thinks HPs 1700 and 3700 are advances on the 1900 (which may have become the most perfect PDA design of all time at it's apex. Simply had it all. Why replace it with the 1700s? Just plain dumb) and the 2200. (Again, perhaps the best full-featured design ever. All it needed was to add VGA and a camera model. Why ruin the whole line by going to the 3700?)

Palm did the same when they replaced the stellar Vx-M500 line with the Tungsten T. It was a stupid model. It had a keen new sliding feature because....well, just because. Stupid.

Most models of Palms improve in such small ways that they don't all backwards, but some even do that. The new T5 lacks the vibration alarms and voice recorder of the T3 it replaced (might be wrong about one of those, but it sure doesn't offer all advance and no backtracking.)

It looks like no one is going to offer a consumer level camera model since Sony left and Palm is dropping the Zire 70 series. HP is making an attempt with their 3700, but honestly, I am not paying $400 for a multi-media model WITHOUT VGA. What was HP thinking?! This model is made for VGA, but they put that in the 2700 line instead.

Lots of bombs all around as I look back on it all. And it doesn't seem that complicated that they keep dropping the ball on this stuff.

[timcolling]

The Toshiiba e740 belongs on this list also! Poor design, lousy support and oughtright dishonesty by Toshiba re warranty coverage place it in that category.

- Tim

[KTamas]

well, I have played with a treo 650 before and i have to say, i like the form factor... (but i still hate palmos hehe)
On the other hand, here is my list:
ipaq 6315 (bugs, slow processor etc.)
ipaq 1710 (i dont think i have to explain it...
every single asus device (cause of the non-existing support)
and, in _some sort of way_, my BlueAngel...Why is that an $700 pda does not have a VGA screen?? (besides that, i love this device)

[DaleReeck]

I'm surprised no one mentioned a legendary dud - the MPX 300. A great concept and nice design destroyed by Motorola, who unexplicably put only 32MB (11MB usable) memory onboard. A 64MB chip, costing a few bucks more per unit would have made this device sweet. Not perfect (still had a slow processor) but still very usable, one of the better PPC phones.

[TMann]

I think that for a device to be viewed favorably, it has to do its job well, (ie. reliably,) and it has to have a good feature set for it's price, (ie. be a good value.)

The Tungsten T5 initially failed on both of those counts. Many Palm users were VERY disappointed that Palm didn't bother to include built-in Wi-Fi on this $400 model, especially since practically every PPC and most of the recent Sony's included Wi-Fi. To make matters worse, there were a ton of software incompatibilty issues, as the T5 was the first Palm model to incorporate their new non-volatile memory. The T5 is actually a pretty nice little device, now that the price has come down and most of the software fixes have done. But the T5 will, unfortunately, have a hard time ever living down its intial rocky start.

The Treo 650, I think, is a little different, in that most users had no issues with the hardware. The screen is beautiful, the keyboard is very usable, and the device is just small enough to be very usable as a phone. The problems with the Treo, unfortunately, were all software related. The bluetooth capabilities were crippled, (or at least unfinished,) in that neither the Sprint nor the Cingular models had bluetooth DUN enabled. There STILL aren't any good Wi-Fi solutions availabe. Also, the Treo had some issues as well with software compatibility, though they were less of a problem than with the T5. However, just as with the T5, most of the main issues have been ironed out, (several months later,) and most Treo users are pretty happy with their phone.

As for the HP RZ1710...yeesh, what can you say about it. It's overpriced, underfeatured, and kind of ugly. Other than that, it's not too bad. ;)

As I recall, the other PPC's that received lots of complaints were the Toshiba e740 and the HP 6315. They were both very capable devices, but had a lot of reliability issues.

Lastly, two other devices that come to mind in terms of major complaints are the HP 4700 and the Dell x50v. Most of us who own one of these two devices are really happy with them; however, we are sometimes bothered that they aren't quite perfect. "If the HP only had a standard D-pad..." and "If the Dell just had a better battery..." are the most common complaints that I've seen. I guess we gadget geeks are just impossible to please... :D

TMann

[stevelam]

I've got my eyes on the Universal.......

You mean you know someone that dosen't!!!!

[stevelam]

I'm surprised no one mentioned a legendary dud - the MPX 300. A great concept and nice design destroyed by Motorola, who unexplicably put only 32MB (11MB usable) memory onboard. A 64MB chip, costing a few bucks more per unit would have made this device sweet. Not perfect (still had a slow processor) but still very usable, one of the better PPC phones.

I though that it was never released?? (or was that the MPx??)

[MitchellO]

I've got my eyes on the Universal.......

You mean you know someone that dosen't!!!!

0X

[Menneisyys]

It looks like no one is going to offer a consumer level camera model since Sony left and Palm is dropping the Zire 70 series. HP is making an attempt with their 3700, but honestly, I am not paying $400 for a multi-media model WITHOUT VGA. What was HP thinking?! This model is made for VGA, but they put that in the 2700 line instead.


Well, some other high-end VGA PDA's also have cameras: the Asus a730(w) and, more importantly, the Fujtisu-Siemens Pocket Loox 720.

[KTamas]

I wonder how many people realized so far that if he/she does not lives either in asia or west europe, HTC Universal will be an useless device for him/her (at least the phone part), because it only takes USIM cards which is used on 3G networks, not regular SIM cards...

[MitchellO]

We have 3G over here in AU. I could live with being on three.

[spacehog]

I wonder how many people realized so far that if he/she does not lives either in asia or west europe, HTC Universal will be an useless device for him/her (at least the phone part), because it only takes USIM cards which is used on 3G networks, not regular SIM cards...

Don't know where you got that from, but it's simply untrue. I've been using the Universal for 3 days now with an antiquated 1999 sim card. Not a single SIM related problem so far. Sure i'm not taking advantage of the 3G functionality, but i'd say the Universal is much more than video conferencing, and i'm loving every other part of it!

[surur]

Spacehog. As one of the few people with a universal please answer this question.

Does it do voice dialing via a bluetooth headset!!!

Does it have the hands-free bluetooth profile, or just headset?

Thank you for any answer. I have not been able to extract this simple fact from anyone.

Surur

[MitchellO]

I wonder how many people realized so far that if he/she does not lives either in asia or west europe, HTC Universal will be an useless device for him/her (at least the phone part), because it only takes USIM cards which is used on 3G networks, not regular SIM cards...

Don't know where you got that from, but it's simply untrue. I've been using the Universal for 3 days now with an antiquated 1999 sim card. Not a single SIM related problem so far. Sure i'm not taking advantage of the 3G functionality, but i'd say the Universal is much more than video conferencing, and i'm loving every other part of it!

I didn't think it did. How do you find the universal? How is the keyboard? Could you post or PM me some nice pics of the keyboard, screen and the device in 'laptop' mode? Thanks spacehog! 0X

[spacehog]

Surur, bad news but I dont have a BT headset to test with. Ill try borrowing a friends and ill post the results back.

Mitchell, its actually a REALLY good keyboard. Id say its on par in terms of usability with the Treo 650. Sorry but I can't post any pics of the device, I hope you can understand why. I just wanted to clarify the SIM concern KTamas brought up.

[surur]

Thx spacehog. It would really be appreciated.


With such a large unit as the MDA 4 proper bluetooth functionality is essential.

Surur

[KTamas]

I wonder how many people realized so far that if he/she does not lives either in asia or west europe, HTC Universal will be an useless device for him/her (at least the phone part), because it only takes USIM cards which is used on 3G networks, not regular SIM cards...

Don't know where you got that from, but it's simply untrue. I've been using the Universal for 3 days now with an antiquated 1999 sim card. Not a single SIM related problem so far. Sure i'm not taking advantage of the 3G functionality, but i'd say the Universal is much more than video conferencing, and i'm loving every other part of it!
Wow, thats some good news... at least i will be able to use it in hungary too... last time i saw on msm*biles.com that it can only take USIM cards...

[MitchellO]

Surur, bad news but I dont have a BT headset to test with. Ill try borrowing a friends and ill post the results back.

Mitchell, its actually a REALLY good keyboard. Id say its on par in terms of usability with the Treo 650. Sorry but I can't post any pics of the device, I hope you can understand why. I just wanted to clarify the SIM concern KTamas brought up.

Yeah, I understand about the pics. Glad you hear its good though. Will have to get one to use at school when I comes out!!

[mangochutneyman]

It looks like no one is going to offer a consumer level camera model since Sony left and Palm is dropping the Zire 70 series...

Palm is not dropping the zire line... there will be new zire models later this year.

[MitchellO]

My sister had a Zire 71, and it was great! Nice screen, very good VGA camera, and stable. The Zire 72 looks good (the silver version). Better cam, more memory :?:, slimmer design.

[h4xwh0r3]

You forgot the HP iPAQ 5450! I own one of these pieces of s*&amp;t and is one of the worst purchases i have ever made. It has the crappiest battery life, its slow and the hardware buttons are very unresponsive. I recommend that anyone buying a new PDA not go for the bells and whistles model, but a more mature device that doesn't push the boundaries of today's battery or CPU technology.

[MitchellO]

The 5550 was pretty good though. Someone I know had one, and they liked it. The 5450 was buggy.

[mickeyjuice]

PalmOne (or should I now say, Palm, after its fifty-billionth name change) took the honours with two dud devices - the Tungsten T5 and the Treo 650.
The T5's complete crappiness was what drove me to the XDA.

[MitchellO]

PalmOne (or should I now say, Palm, after its fifty-billionth name change) took the honours with two dud devices - the Tungsten T5 and the Treo 650.
The T5's complete crappiness was what drove me to the XDA.

The T5 is a joke by Palm. They should have had WiFi in it. It was hardly an improvement over the T3, actually not as good in some areas.

The Treo 650 is a nice handheld. If they bring out a WM5 version of the current one with WiFi and 64-128Mb ROM (free space that is) I will put it on the list for upgrade consideration, right with the HTC Universal. Somehow i think the Universal would win.....