PalmSource Halts Development On Cobalt, Puts Linux On Front Burner

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2005/06/palmsource_linu.html">http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2005/06/palmsource_linu.html</a><br /><br /><i>"PalmSource has shifted its engineering efforts to focus on development of Linux-based versions of its Palm OS software for mobile phones. "We are delaying all development of products not directly related to this," said Patrick McVeigh, interim chief executive at PalmSource, during a teleconference to review the past quarter's financial results."</i><br /><br />You may recall that PalmOS 6, or Cobalt, <a href="http://www.palmsource.com/press/2004/010604_os6.html">was released December 29, 2003</a> to its licensees to much fanfare and shouts of praise from the user community. Eighteen months later, all we have seen is pa1mOne release the eleventy-third custom iteration of PalmOS 5. During that same time, Microsoft has released and shipped two operating systems, Windows Mobile 2003SE and Windows Mobile 5, with devices running the later expected in the next 60-90 days.<br /><br />During that time, PalmSource acquired China MobileSoft, a producer of phones with an expertise in Linux. They will focus now exclusively on getting a PalmOS out the door based on Linux. I would like to see how much money PalmSource wasted from 2002 or perhaps as early as 2001 as they started development on Cobalt, including the acquisition of the BeOS engineering team. With devices not expected until sometime in 2006, PalmOS 5 will turn four years old, several lifetimes in the world of mobile computing.

[freitasm]

At last... One less vapourware, a few more to go.

[lapchinj]

...They will focus now exclusively on getting a PalmOS out the door based on Linux...
Will this be a Linux OS running a GUI front end like Kde or Gnome or will they be building their own distro (called Palux :? )? If they'll use some distro of Linux and add their own twist to Kde or Gnome or even if they come out with their own windowing system they might have a chance.

There really aren't many vendors in the Linux mobile world so they might be able to produce something to replace the Palm OS that would be usable with the end user in mind and they would not have screw around with building an OS. I think it would be wrong for them to try and come up with their own distro (such as Suse, RedHat, Debian etc.). They should rather use a running distro and supply their own twist to it

I haven't seen anything that would make me switch away from a PPC since the apps and community are great but I would hack around with one if not too expensive.

...I would like to see how much money PalmSource wasted from 2002 or perhaps as early as 2001 as they started development on Cobalt, including the acquisition of the BeOS engineering team...
If it worked then we would have said that look at all the money they spent but they were able to pull it off in the end (MS spends huge piles of cash each year on their R&amp;D). Anyway sooner or later the reason why they're canning Cobalt will surface but for my 2 cents they must have blown it with a poor design. When they came out with the betas something was probably not working correctly which might have caused fears about a big rewrite for portions or even all of it. Or that Cobalt was already behind the times and outdated. But what ever the reason is it seems to smell like the same foul oder as the Denver International Aiport baggage system smelled like when the canned that project.

Maybe they'll start selling pencil and paper in a Rinoskin leather case and call it the Pad OS 8)

Jeff-

[freitasm]

There really aren't many vendors in the Linux mobile world so they might be able to produce something to replace the Palm OS that would be usable with the end user in mind and they would not have screw around with building an OS. I think it would be wrong for them to try and come up with their own distro (such as Suse, RedHat, Debian etc.). They should rather use a running distro and supply their own twist to it

PalmSource bought a Chinese company (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=3781) last year, which already has Linux for mobile devices. CMS is already producing Linux for mobile devices in the Chinese market for some time.

[spicypixel]

Finnaly a good mobile operating system 8). Yeah I have a ipaq 2210, and I cant help think about firefox on it...
I was looking into buying a Sharp Zaurus but its too expensive to have imported and converted to english.

If palm pull this off, set up a ported repository and make it debian based for 1 click updates... then we have a winner.

lol I played with a mates Zaurus CL3100, (640x480, 4gb HDD, 128 rom... and some other specifications I cant remember off the top of my head :D) and a got Apache 2 working on it and hosting my mini website. although impractical its impressive :devilboy:

Now palm can lower the cost of linux based PDAs and we can enjoy some nice software (ported open office, GIMP, firefox/thunderbird) on the move :D

Final Word. I love windows mobile on my ipaq... i love it to bits, but i cant help but think linux could do more :wink:

Linking Time
(New Linux distro on Zauri, pdaXrom)
http://www.pdaxrom.org/screenshots.php?menuid=2

(KDE 3.4 running on Zaurus 750 - 640x480)
http://www.staerkel.org/pdaxrom/

Enjoy
:wink:

[Felix Torres]

Will this be a Linux OS running a GUI front end like Kde or Gnome or will they be building their own distro (called Palux :? )?

Best guess, based on their track record, is they'll run a Dragonball/Palm 4.x emulator on top of the Linux Kernel and file system.

Same old gui, same old apis.
Otherwise, they can't brag about having ten million applications pre-coded for the platform.

Do remember who we're talking about; the "Zen of Palm" guys...

The least they can do is the *most* they will do... :roll:

[surur]

They are building a mobile phone OS guys. That means no access at all to the underlying OS. NO Apt get, NO CLI, NO installing your own software at all (without permission that is).

In the end its all a bit pointless. Why would a phone company not just license Symbian or WM. What's the POS USP?

Surur

[spicypixel]

Sorry for the going over the top, i was excited :lol:
oh well...

back to getting someone to port linux to the Dell X50v :devilboy:

My linux + palm dream was just popped... back to reality :cry:

[Ed Hansberry]

they are doing multiple things. Part of it is a feature phone. That is where the phone is 100% closed to the user. you use their UI and the carrier apps. Nothing gets installed.

the other is to put the Palm UI and API on Linux. I am sure someone will figure out a way to shell out in a limited fashion, but byband large, it will be a Palm OS device, just on a Linux kernel. Just like there is very little you can do on a PPC to access the CE UI and other APIs that aren't exposed, you won't be able to do it on a Linux powered Palm.

Five years ago I said Palm would have a HUGE problem turning the Palm API on the Kadak kernel into a real 32 bit multitasking OS.

Now, they still haven't done it and the whole OS5/OS6 fiasco was a false start. So, they start over with a real OS.

They had to use an established OS and buy a company that already knew how to use that OS to get started. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

[Typhoon]

...will they finish it before Windows Mobile takes over the PDA market?

[Paragon]

...will they finish it before Windows Mobile takes over the PDA market?

I don't think it matter very much. This isn't a move that will ever put them in the mainstream the way they once were. For Palm to go to a Linux based system seems more like they are trying to recreate some sort of Zen like atmosphere again.

[Typhoon]

...will they finish it before Windows Mobile takes over the PDA market?

I don't think it matter very much. This isn't a move that will ever put them in the mainstream the way they once were. For Palm to go to a Linux based system seems more like they are trying to recreate some sort of Zen like atmosphere again.

I always thought it would be a good idea for MS to make an built-in option for Windows Mobile to look a lot like Palm OS. Because for some reason, Palm has always been (not only eye-candy) eye-easy. That's pretty much the only reason I like Palm.

[whydidnt]

Well, everything I've heard is that PalmSource's intention is to run Cobalt on top of Linux. They may have decided that Cobalt it ready to do this and now they need to focus on the underlying OS.

We don't need to get into the too little, too late discussion, but they also have left it no secret that they are focusing on the mobile phone market, so it remains to be seen if we will ever see a non-cellular PalmOS PDA running on anything but the cludge we now know as Garnet.

I recently purchased a LifeDrive to check out how things now work in the Palm world. The clean unit without ANY external software installed has reset itself 4 times for no apparent reason in about 3 days of use. There are obvious issues with how PalmOne tried to "enhance" the OS. Resets are especially painful as they take a couple of minutes to complete.

[surur]

I actually think sojourner753 give the ultimate answer to the Why Linux, Why now?question.

Like many companies they're going to turn their future over to the Open source community for survival.

Like Novell and Sun, and Netscape.... and now Nokia....

Remember when Java was all the rage, and Corel even made a Java office suite to try and unseat Microsoft Office?

The Linux move is a sign of desperation, and there is very little guarantee it will pay off.

Surur

[griph]

I don't think it matter very much. This isn't a move that will ever put them in the mainstream the way they once were.
Dave
Forgive a simplistic response but it seems a little bit like the way Psion 'disintegrated' into Symbian - from my completely laymans view? Could Palm be about to 'move' away from the PDA market other than niche markets and primarily move over to Smartphone systems?

[Paragon]

Could Palm be about to 'move' away from the PDA market other than niche markets and primarily move over to Smartphone systems?

Yes, most definitely. With continual slumping PDA sales, and everyone with a *need* to be connected, it's their only chance. They ain't gonna live long selling Zire's for a hundred bucks, or selling over priced under functional LifeDrives. ;)

Dave

[Typhoon]

Anyone think this will force PalmOne to use the 2-3 year old Palm OS 6?

[Janak Parekh]

Anyone think this will force PalmOne to use the 2-3 year old Palm OS 6?
Actually, I think it reinforces the idea that they will largely skip Cobalt and wait for its successor. Or adopt other OSes.

--janak

[lapchinj]

...The Linux move is a sign of desperation, and there is very little guarantee it will pay off.
It is definitely a sign of desperation but Linux is a good choice for an OS mainly because it's probably the only OS available to them. The Palm OS as we've heard on this forum for some time will never be able to become a true OS without an injection of some serious cash.

The best thing they could do is go to Linux and concentrate on staying solvent. They might be able to make Linux transparent to the user but I feel bad for all the developers that will have to rewrite their apps. Their code will not port over unless they did it in Java (is there a Java VM for the Palm?).

As far as creating a Zen following maybe they can pull that off just like Apple did with their latest OS. But it's still a Zen following as opposed to mass user appeal. Also Apple was never so deep into the dumps and they weren't able to crawl out. Palm is too deep and all that shiny armor that once sparkled has long since rusted away. I don't see them coming up with anything even with a real OS like Linux that would get me to drop the PPC and I basically live and work in a Linux world.

If Palm does go to Linux all they would become is another Linux offering. I had tried to develop for the Sharp Zaurus a couple of years ago when they first came out but droped that mainly because I got hooked on the PPC. Yeah the new Zaurus is real nice but it still doesn't compare to a PPC with regards to applications. So Palm doen't have much to look forward to by using Linux.

Maybe Palm would be better off buying Microsoft and using their OS for their hardware. This way they could run Cobalt on top of the PalmMS OS and get rid of the competition at the same time :mrgreen:

Jeff-

[ctmagnus]

Hmm...

The use of COBALT cripples the mind

:mrgreen:

[bjornkeizers]

The best thing they could do is go to Linux and concentrate on staying solvent. They might be able to make Linux transparent to the user but I feel bad for all the developers that will have to rewrite their apps. Their code will not port over unless they did it in Java (is there a Java VM for the Palm?).


Bottom line of my following argument: 'F... them.' The only reason Palm is in this bad shape is because they hold onto these old programs and architecture. I had a Palm Pilot Pro the day they came out, and I witnessed the birth of the 'Zen of Palm'. In fact, I was a Palm software developer many moons ago, during the days of mono screens, 1 mb of memory and 8 mhz processors, and I feel proud to say that I contributed in some small way to making Palm what it once was before it went stale.

Sure, starting over will be difficult - but look at it this way: You know how many Palm developers there are? Multiply that by a thousand, and you have the number of Linux developers. There are people right now working on software for devices like the Zaurus, and quite a lot of that work can be directly transferred to a new Palm running some sort of Linux - provided Palm finallly grows a set of balls and gives the public and the developers what they crave: good hardware and a good OS that we can build on.

If you build it, they will come. Developers love challenges, and the Linux people even more so. You can't swing a dead cat on the internet without hitting a dozen different distros and projects.

I'll be first in line to get a Linux powered Palm PDA.

[lapchinj]

Hmm...

The use of COBALT cripples the mind

:mrgreen:

Couldn't have said it better. But even Cobol has a brighter future than Palm. Although the part about moving away from the PDA and towards the Smartphone world sound interesting but what would they have to offer in a smartphone that would bring in some cash?

Jeff-

[Typhoon]

One more point for MS. What industry has MS not conquered that they have attempted? Desktops, PDAs, almost the video game industry, etc. Anyone think they will take over the MP3 player market as well?

[Felix Torres]

One more point for MS. What industry has MS not conquered that they have attempted? Desktops, PDAs, almost the video game industry, etc. Anyone think they will take over the MP3 player market as well?

MS isn't in the MP3 market; they don't sell players.
(And the MP3 spec is owned lock, stock, and patents by the Frauhofer Institute of Germany and Thomson of France).

They do play in the digital music market but only as a technology supplier (wma,MS-DRM) and downloadable music vendor (MSN Music). In the latter its too early to say if they'll be successful (although they are quite competitive in most aspects and superior in some, particularly the quality of the tracks they sell) but in the former they are doing quite nicely. Enough that they already have the eurocrats worried... :twisted:

If the market does swing towards music subscriptions as the dominant portable music source, then MS has a good lead, but since the market is barely 6 months old its too early to tell what its native size is like...

As for industries where they've not succeeded; well, they're still working on the TV-broadcasting business after ten years of going nowhere. But lately they've been getting traction...

Basically, MS succeeds by sticking around, stalking a market, until the opposition shoots itself in the foot and then they pounce. The don't kill companies so much as help them commit suicide. :lol:

[Regint]

What industry has MS not conquered that they have attempted?

How do you define conquer? Most popular product? 50% market share? 80%?

Here's a few examples where Microsoft hasn't conquered all (yet):

Webserver market vs. Apache
Website design market vs. Adobe Dreamweaver
PIM market vs. Lotus Notes (one I really wish they would win)
Internet search vs. Google
Media player market vs. iTunes

I think they're still a long way off conquering the console market too (compare the market share they've got now, compared to Sony's first console at about this stage in it's life-cycle). But that's a moot point.

I agree with Felix though. Microsoft will always keep plugging away and plan for the long-term. Eventually the opposition will always screw up.