Multitasking

[Patrick Y.]

Hi,

I'm just curious about your exprience with multitasking on your Pocket PC. On my Acer n10(300mhz, overclocked to 412mhz), it is quite impossible to browse the internet, listen to music, download news with NewsBreak, edit documents, read e-book, etc. at the same time. The device normally freezes up when I try to do that. I'm wondering if you will be able to do that without any problem on devices like hx2750 and x50v. Is there a significant difference between 624mhz and 300mhz processor while handling heavy loads?

Thanks.

[Kowalski]

the doubled processor speed will make a significant difference for sure, but there is another important factor: free ram. when you run out of free program ram, you will probably experience a system crash.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

There is also the hard-coded limit of 32 processes in Windows Mobile (of which a third are run by the OS even with nothing else running), so even if you DO have plenty of processor speed, and you DO have lots of memory available, you might still get a lockup/crash, just because you are running lots of small programs.

[surur]

With Pocketplus, I use multi-tasking on my PDA the way I use it on my desktop, i.e. I close software I'm done with, and minimize software I'm likely to return back to soon.

E.g. I would leave my ebook software open, and PI, but close excel if I only used it for a quick calculation. I would open multiple web pages using pocketplus, to avoid the rendering times from going back and forward between pages, and close the pages when I'm done reading them.

Surur

[Menneisyys]

Hi,

I'm just curious about your exprience with multitasking on your Pocket PC. On my Acer n10(300mhz, overclocked to 412mhz), it is quite impossible to browse the internet, listen to music, download news with NewsBreak, edit documents, read e-book, etc. at the same time. The device normally freezes up when I try to do that. I'm wondering if you will be able to do that without any problem on devices like hx2750 and x50v. Is there a significant difference between 624mhz and 300mhz processor while handling heavy loads?

Thanks.

As Kowalski has already pointed out, you experience system crashes not because of the CPU but because of the meager RAM you have. You may want to relocate everything (even DLL's) into storage cards (http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=3705) to increase the available RAM.

[emuelle1]

I tend to keep most programs installed on either my storage card or BIS. My x30 is finniky though. Sometimes it will run PI, IE, WebIS Mail, and a few others as they com up. Other days I can't get it to run PI and ActiveSuck at the same time.

[Patrick Y.]

Thanks you for replying, guys. :wink: Also, I really appeciate the information you provided. I use wisbar advance to keep track of all the running programs and TaskManager to inspect the processes. Like PocketPlus, Wisbar also allows me to minimize and close program the way I want to efficiently.

There is an important thing I forgot to mention before, which is that my pocket pc usually freezes up temporarily when I try to run several programs at once while the system is writing/reading files. (Installing programs, trasfering/copying/saving files, etc.) Any ideas?

Anyway, I don't think I ever run out of RAM. I got around 26MB of program memory available usually. The memory meter on Wisbar, which I watch constantly, never shows my available memory in "dangerous zone". Thanks to hishamh, I now understand why I can't run so many programs at the same time. Sometimes, I did discover that some program close automatically without my "permission".

Lastly, I always keep an eye on the CPU load with Pocket Hack Master. The load did increase dramatically while I run certain programs like Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player. Again, I like to know if any of you guys experience any difference while switching from older devices to blazing models like 2750.

Thanks! :D

[Menneisyys]

There is an important thing I forgot to mention before, which is that my pocket pc usually freezes up temporarily when I try to run several programs at once while the system is writing/reading files. (Installing programs, trasfering/copying/saving files, etc.) Any ideas?

This is the case even with hi-end devices. Don't initiate anything that could result in high (even bursty) CPU usage while, say, you copy files.

Lastly, I always keep an eye on the CPU load with Pocket Hack Master. The load did increase dramatically while I run certain programs like Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player. Again, I like to know if any of you guys experience any difference while switching from older devices to blazing models like 2750.

PIE shouldn't put any significant additional load on your CPU during simple browsing - just at loading (and decoding) pages, which takes some seconds at most and is burst-like.

WMP is pretty good at playing audio, CPU usage-wise (please see my benchmarks (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,37799) on it - also linked from this PPCMag article (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/newsl_jkwg/JKWG_02-22-05.htm)). There're much more 'demanding' players for the PPC. At playing video, it can, however, indeed demand a lot of processing power (even over 90%).

[Possum Roadkill]

Tonight...
Tried out my new GPS software again, while playing a shoutcast audio stream using Betaplayer. I haven't had any problems that I can link to multitasking, but I tend to close things that I'm not using and there's only so much you can see on a screen this size.

It doen't make sense to me to leave things open that start up just as quickly as if you had left them running, (faster because it stayed launched yet slower because of all the damn things left running that weren't needed.)

I finally switched to the PPC because I wanted multi-tasking, as well as the other hardware improvements, but I choose to use it to do things that can't be accomplished without multi-tasking, such as listening to music from my hx4705, plugged into the car stereo while I also get driving directions displayed and read to me. Because of multitasking, I can leave IRC running while I browse a web page someone suggested, send a photo through e-mail, or just check my calendar.

The important thing here is that I'm not just leaving programs open for the sake of leaving them open, but leaving them open because there's some way that I can be using two programs as once (audio) or because there would be some real inconvenience involved in closing them.

[Janak Parekh]

There is also the hard-coded limit of 32 processes in Windows Mobile (of which a third are run by the OS even with nothing else running), so even if you DO have plenty of processor speed, and you DO have lots of memory available, you might still get a lockup/crash, just because you are running lots of small programs.
Right, except the underlying OS tends to just close the excess programs instead of actually crashing.

Also, as Menneisyys implied, it depends on which programs you use to do each of your tasks. For example, MS Reader is very CPU resource-heavy, unlike Palm Reader, Mobipocket, etc. While WMP is better than some other programs in CPU utilization, I've found some of the dedicated playback software -- like Pocket Player, etc. -- to be even better, resourcewise, than WMP. PIE is also very resource-heavy when it's rendering a big page.

Finally, I find that when I generally try not to do more than 2 or 3 tasks simultaneously, the Pocket PC handles it just fine. After all, the CPU in the Pocket PC isn't quite where the desktop is. ;)

--janak

[Phillip Dyson]

I've never been quite sure how the PocketPC handles multiple data connections.

I've sort of trained myself not to download RSS feeds at the same time as downloading email. Or while downloading a webpage. Especially when my connection is through my bluetooth phone.

Never tried to do this while on WiFi.

[ctmagnus]

Can anyone recommend a CPU usage meter, preferably one that is visible at all times (ie, in the title bar)? I've been getting the occasional slowdown lately and I'm wondering if the CPU is spiking or what's happening. I doubt it's memory as pocket plus almost always reports at least 30MB execution memory free and I try to avoid installing programs that have an overly large storage/memory footprint.

[Menneisyys]

Can anyone recommend a CPU usage meter, preferably one that is visible at all times (ie, in the title bar)? I've been getting the occasional slowdown lately and I'm wondering if the CPU is spiking or what's happening. I doubt it's memory as pocket plus almost always reports at least 30MB execution memory free and I try to avoid installing programs that have an overly large storage/memory footprint.

I use the ImmierSoft XCPUScalar for this purpose. It may be an overkill though - there may be free and even smaller apps that only display CPU usage and don't let for tweaking it.

[Menneisyys]

I've never been quite sure how the PocketPC handles multiple data connections.

I've sort of trained myself not to download RSS feeds at the same time as downloading email. Or while downloading a webpage. Especially when my connection is through my bluetooth phone.

Never tried to do this while on WiFi.

It may have been the problem of your RSS client, not the Pocket PC operating system.

The PPC OS, as with any operating systems, opens an entirely transparent client socket on a previously-unused, high (>1024) port to communicate with the server. This means concurrent TCP/IP access should work OK, even when running more than one instance of the same TCP/IP client (for example, downloading several Web pages at the same time).

So, it's most probably not an OS issue but some problem with your RSS client. Which one did you have problems with? I may want to cast a glance on it...

[Patrick Y.]

Finally, I find that when I generally try not to do more than 2 or 3 tasks simultaneously, the Pocket PC handles it just fine. After all, the CPU in the Pocket PC isn't quite where the desktop is. ;)

--janak

Desktop softwares are very complicated along with faster CPU and bigger RAM. However, the Pocket PC softwares are far simpler than the desktop along with slower CPU and smaller RAM. In proportion, shouldn't Pocket PC be able to handle lots of programs smoothly at the same time like computers? I can usually run lots of softwares on the desktop without any problem at all(usually :oops: ). This is a question I want to ask for LONG time ago. Thanks.

[surur]

Well, even our 600Mhz x-scale processors are only equevalent to early pentiums (about 100 Mhz) while the work we ask them to do is NOT that much less complicated than a desktop pc. If we want a web page to render the same as on a desktop it will need the same amount of code in both places, and even more if we want to adapt the page to the smalk screen. A lot of pictures will need to be resized for example, without the benifit of a graphics co-processor either. Another example is e-book software. The desktop reader does ALL the same functions as the PDA reader, so the code must be largely the same too.

In short then we should give our PPC's more respect. They have limited resources, yet have to cope with all the demands of their desktop and laptop cousins. If you see the occasional spinning wheel you probably see it as much on your desktop too.

Surur

[Patrick Y.]

I understand. Thanks. I hope there will be faster and less power-consuming processors for Pocket PCs in the future. :wink:

[Possum Roadkill]

I personally believe that the biggest limitation is not the hardware, but the software. If you compare how Word runs on a hx4700 compared to something as old as a Mac SE that ran at 8mhz, you'd find that the SE handled graphics placement, column formatting and a bunch of other things that the hx4700 either doesn't do or doesn't do as well. If you move up to the point where you start to see color machines, you still have them runnng significantly slower processors than the hx4700. Now I know you can't compare completely different platforms like this, but the differences between processor speed is HUGE!

The thing is, if companies, most of which also sell full sized desktop computers and laptops put a bunch of resources into optimizing and improving programs they'd be cutting off their own heads.

Most people wouldn't need a full sized computer if PDA's were improved just a little bit. If PDA's had better options for large screen output then even fewer people would need a full sized computer.

[Phillip Dyson]

I've never been quite sure how the PocketPC handles multiple data connections.

I've sort of trained myself not to download RSS feeds at the same time as downloading email. Or while downloading a webpage. Especially when my connection is through my bluetooth phone.

Never tried to do this while on WiFi.

It may have been the problem of your RSS client, not the Pocket PC operating system.

The PPC OS, as with any operating systems, opens an entirely transparent client socket on a previously-unused, high (>1024) port to communicate with the server. This means concurrent TCP/IP access should work OK, even when running more than one instance of the same TCP/IP client (for example, downloading several Web pages at the same time).

So, it's most probably not an OS issue but some problem with your RSS client. Which one did you have problems with? I may want to cast a glance on it...

I did some testing and it turns out that you're correct. Don't know where I got my original impression from. Maybe one or more of my devices needed a soft-reset at the time or something.

Btw, I use Egress.

[Menneisyys]

Btw, I use Egress.

OK, I'll give it a try some day. Hope will be able to fix it with a quick hack, or, at least, can report the bug to the developer.