The Axim X50v's Graphical Goodness

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/reviews/efocus2005/index.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/reviews/...s2005/index.htm</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050617-X50v.jpg" /><br /><br />Okay, so I was supposed to post on this a couple of weeks ago, but I sort of disregarded the task reminders on my Pocket PC (yes, silly me). :oops: But back on topic, Chris De Herrera (from Pocket PC FAQ) has posted a couple of pictures and videos showing the graphical capabilities of an Axim X50v running Windows Mobile 5.0. Check them out! Current X50v owners will be thoroughly impressed!

[ctmagnus]

Is that video running off of the Dell? If so, which one? There're two Axims in the image, both with cables running out of them. I assume it's the one whose display is on, but you never know. ;)

[Jason Dunn]

Wow. That's impressive - I hope we see more games able to take advantage of the Intel GPU. Intel needs to spread some seed $$$ around to get some sweet games developed...

[MerlinAZ]

He's got WM5 already?
I know he's an MVP and a very good one!

Does that mean it'll be soon for the rest of us?
I originally thought it wouldn't be until the fall.

[guinness]

I know the video of the racing game is only for a demo, but I don't think it's any more impressive than Racing Days.

And the demo pales in comparison to Wipeout Pure or Ridge Racer for the PSP. The Futuremark demo looked pretty impressive however.

I wonder though, if PPC's will begin to be marketed like the Tapwave Zodiac (great specs and premise, even with POS, but I haven't heard anything about it lately).

[foebea]

More than anything else I want to know how they get video out from a ppc. If it is a special feature of x50v then I will buy one. If I can do it with the 2215 I will be happy.

I do have a card i think called life something or other, but it shows like 10 frames a second, and does not fill the screen. really bad.

That image is extremely impressive and I cant wait until I can do that myself. Yay! Mini-rant!

[Jason Dunn]

More than anything else I want to know how they get video out from a ppc. If it is a special feature of x50v then I will buy one.

Dell Axim X50v + VGA out cable = video out. :-)

[Don't Panic!]

I'm pretty impressed he got Stuntcar Extreme running that well. Maybe that's why there are 2 X50vs on the table? One for Stuntcar Extreme and one for everything else. :lol:

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

At first, in looking at the picture, it appeared that the Axim was outputting video resolutions much greater than VGA but the sample videos on the site only show video playback on the device itself, so now I'm not sure, though the image on the plasma screen certainly looks impressive.

Also, I'm not sure if the first two videos (not talking about the race game) are just demonstrating video playback capability or if it's demonstrating real-time 3D rendering capability. If it's the latter, that would be absolutely incredible, but if it's the former, I'm not sure this capability is any greater than what Axim x50v owners enjoy today.

As for the racing game, if it's true VGA, then that would be the advantage and cool-factor it has over Racing Days which is a QVGA game.

Perhaps I'm missing something here...

[Fishie]

That looks like the set up at EFoc in LA a couple of weeks back.
Intell was actually showing that off and it most definitly is NOT WinMob 2K5.
I was there.

[Fishie]

It IS at the EFocus event(just checked the link) Chris is wrong, its not running 2K5.
I asked the person demoing it about 2K5 and its availability and the guy had no clue whatsoever.

[Darius Wey]

More than anything else I want to know how they get video out from a ppc. If it is a special feature of x50v then I will buy one. If I can do it with the 2215 I will be happy.

As Jason said, all you need is a VGA-out cable with the X50v since it natively supports VGA-out. You can get CF-based VGA cards though I doubt the performance is anywhere near as great.

[Darius Wey]

Is that video running off of the Dell? If so, which one? There're two Axims in the image, both with cables running out of them. I assume it's the one whose display is on, but you never know. ;)

The one being shown on the plasma TV is coming from the X50v with the screen turned off. That's the one with the VGA-out cable attached to it, and also, mirror mode tends to lag a bit so I doubt the Intel folk would want to show it off that way.

[Darius Wey]

At first, in looking at the picture, it appeared that the Axim was outputting video resolutions much greater than VGA but the sample videos on the site only show video playback on the device itself, so now I'm not sure, though the image on the plasma screen certainly looks impressive.

It's application dependent. Default output is at VGA, though some applications allow you to output to a higher resolution - e.g. 800x600, 1024x768. I'm not sure what's being shown on the plasma. Granted, the image taken is a bit blurry, but the picture on the plasma looks a little sharper than the standard VGA resolution.

Also, I'm not sure if the first two videos (not talking about the race game) are just demonstrating video playback capability or if it's demonstrating real-time 3D rendering capability. If it's the latter, that would be absolutely incredible, but if it's the former, I'm not sure this capability is any greater than what Axim x50v owners enjoy today.

I believe the video demo is showing video playback (which is standard for most Pocket PCs) whereas the 3D demo is showing real-time 3D rendering on the X50v. The 2700g is actually quite impressive, and I'm sure it'll shine once Windows Mobile 5.0 debuts.

[Darius Wey]

It IS at the EFocus event(just checked the link) Chris is wrong, its not running 2K5.
I asked the person demoing it about 2K5 and its availability and the guy had no clue whatsoever.

I'm definitely not doubting you, but if indeed the video showing the FutureMark benchmark is an accurate representation of the graphical capabilities of the X50v, I'd have a tough time believing all that is running off GAPI. Windows Mobile 5.0's Direct3D Mobile seems a little more fitting.

[Darius Wey]

He's got WM5 already?
I know he's an MVP and a very good one!

Does that mean it'll be soon for the rest of us?
I originally thought it wouldn't be until the fall.

I don't think that device is Chris', but rather, the folk at Intel. I know there are X50-based WM5 test builds floating around, but they're exactly what they are - i.e. test builds, which are to be used for internal testing only. Dell has stated that the release date of WM5 for their X50 and X50v will be around Q3... so anytime soon. :)

[alex_kac]

Also remember, VGA is fairly close to full DVD quality. So if you consider people playing a DVD on a plasma like that and it looking quite good, its not too difficult to imagine that the plasma display is just VGA.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Interesting to see that the flying 3D demo was by Futuremark. So I guess we should be expecting a PPC graphical benchmarking program in the not too distant future.....

[Darius Wey]

Interesting to see that the flying 3D demo was by Futuremark. So I guess we should be expecting a PPC graphical benchmarking program in the not too distant future.....

They released SP Mark for Series 60 and UIQ not too long ago. Based on that, we may see a Windows Mobile port in the near future (it's more deserving of it anyway). ;)

[Fishie]

It IS at the EFocus event(just checked the link) Chris is wrong, its not running 2K5.
I asked the person demoing it about 2K5 and its availability and the guy had no clue whatsoever.

I'm definitely not doubting you, but if indeed the video showing the FutureMark benchmark is an accurate representation of the graphical capabilities of the X50v, I'd have a tough time believing all that is running off GAPI. Windows Mobile 5.0's Direct3D Mobile seems a little more fitting.

I played around with that verry unit it is NOT 2k5, PERIOD.

[Fishie]

Oh BTW, the MBX chipset can be directly accesed by programmers, thats whats happening with the benchmark utility and the icluded games with the x50v.
No commercial programs do that at the moment(Betaplayer does for instance and it shows) so you dont need 2k5 to run something like that.
Its perfectly possible and IS running on 2k3SE

[mc_03]

It IS at the EFocus event(just checked the link) Chris is wrong, its not running 2K5.
I asked the person demoing it about 2K5 and its availability and the guy had no clue whatsoever.

I'm definitely not doubting you, but if indeed the video showing the FutureMark benchmark is an accurate representation of the graphical capabilities of the X50v, I'd have a tough time believing all that is running off GAPI. Windows Mobile 5.0's Direct3D Mobile seems a little more fitting.

It's not using GAPI- it's OpenGL! Intel knows how to use the power of their graphics chip without waiting for an API like DirectX. There are already a number of Axim x50v games that use OpenGL instead of GAPI, and DirectX Mobile will of course make it easier to bypass GAPI for other developers.

By the way, anyone who is still skeptical can download (http://www.powervr.com/Downloads/Demos/index.asp) these very same demos and run them on an x50v. (Airplane is the second one.) Yes, these are .exe executables that render on the spot, NOT videos, so they will only run on the x50v. They look absolutely stunning on the x50v's screen, much better than output than I've seen on any PSP game.

[Fishie]

It IS at the EFocus event(just checked the link) Chris is wrong, its not running 2K5.
I asked the person demoing it about 2K5 and its availability and the guy had no clue whatsoever.

I'm definitely not doubting you, but if indeed the video showing the FutureMark benchmark is an accurate representation of the graphical capabilities of the X50v, I'd have a tough time believing all that is running off GAPI. Windows Mobile 5.0's Direct3D Mobile seems a little more fitting.

It's not using GAPI- it's OpenGL! Intel knows how to use the power of their graphics chip without waiting for an API like DirectX. There are already a number of Axim x50v games that use OpenGL instead of GAPI, and DirectX Mobile will of course make it easier to bypass GAPI for other developers.

By the way, anyone who is still skeptical can download (http://www.powervr.com/Downloads/Demos/index.asp) these very same demos and run them on an x50v. (Airplane is the second one.) Yes, these are .exe executables that render on the spot, NOT videos, so they will only run on the x50v. They look absolutely stunning on the x50v's screen, much better than output than I've seen on any PSP game.

Exactly.
Thanks for providing proof for what I was saying.

[Darius Wey]

It's not using GAPI- it's OpenGL! Intel knows how to use the power of their graphics chip without waiting for an API like DirectX. There are already a number of Axim x50v games that use OpenGL instead of GAPI, and DirectX Mobile will of course make it easier to bypass GAPI for other developers.

Ah, thanks for the heads-up. I didn't even consider OpenGL. I was under the assumption that these demos were utilising the Direct3D APIs included in Windows Mobile 5.0, but if it's all a case of OpenGL, then it's easier to believe. Obviously, Pocket PC FAQ's references of the new platform running on the X50v certainly made this a confusing discussion. ;)

[jgoodman]

By the way, anyone who is still skeptical can download (http://www.powervr.com/Downloads/Demos/index.asp) these very same demos and run them on an x50v. (Airplane is the second one.) Yes, these are .exe executables that render on the spot, NOT videos, so they will only run on the x50v. They look absolutely stunning on the x50v's screen, much better than output than I've seen on any PSP game.

hmm, looks like a different demo...? the one from herrera's site looks like a bunch of bombers in formation, nicer rendering, clouds, contrails, etc than the simple fighter squadron demo on the web page you mentioned above...

[Fishie]

By the way, anyone who is still skeptical can download (http://www.powervr.com/Downloads/Demos/index.asp) these very same demos and run them on an x50v. (Airplane is the second one.) Yes, these are .exe executables that render on the spot, NOT videos, so they will only run on the x50v. They look absolutely stunning on the x50v's screen, much better than output than I've seen on any PSP game.

hmm, looks like a different demo...? the one from herrera's site looks like a bunch of bombers in formation, nicer rendering, clouds, contrails, etc than the simple fighter squadron demo on the web page you mentioned above...

Yeah I know, its a different one, its an old Futuremark PC one that was running on the Axim, fact remainsit was running on SE and not win mobile 2k5

[ChrisD]

Hi,
I took the videos at eFocus. Intel indeed was running Windows Mobile 5.0 for the demo Axims. The Axim running the racing game was not running Windows Mobile 5.0.

Intel was using the Axim to demonstrated the video graphics capabilities. They had 3 Axims - one running the large display while 2 others were available for users to hold in their hand to see the demos. That's where I captured the video at 640 x 480 x 30fps. I reduced the size to 320 x 240 x 30fps to reduce the size of the video.

Overall I was impressed with the video capabilities of the Axim. It is using a video processor chip from Intel and that is why Intel was demoing it at eFocus.

Chris De Herrera
http://www.pocketpcfaq.com
http://www.pocketpctalk.com
http://www.tabletpctalk.com
http://www.mobilitytalk.com

[Darius Wey]

I took the videos at eFocus. Intel indeed was running Windows Mobile 5.0 for the demo Axims. The Axim running the racing game was not running Windows Mobile 5.0.

Thanks for popping by to give us a few more details, Chris. Much appreciated. :)

[Fishie]

Hi,
I took the videos at eFocus. Intel indeed was running Windows Mobile 5.0 for the demo Axims. The Axim running the racing game was not running Windows Mobile 5.0.

Intel was using the Axim to demonstrated the video graphics capabilities. They had 3 Axims - one running the large display while 2 others were available for users to hold in their hand to see the demos. That's where I captured the video at 640 x 480 x 30fps. I reduced the size to 320 x 240 x 30fps to reduce the size of the video.

Overall I was impressed with the video capabilities of the Axim. It is using a video processor chip from Intel and that is why Intel was demoing it at eFocus.

Chris De Herrera
http://www.pocketpcfaq.com
http://www.pocketpctalk.com
http://www.tabletpctalk.com
http://www.mobilitytalk.com

Chris, what makes you so sure that it was running 2K5?
When I asked about it the guy had no clue whatsoever and everything they showed and we could mess around with was running SE.

[jgoodman]

hmm, looks like a different demo...? the one from herrera's site looks like a bunch of bombers in formation, nicer rendering, clouds, contrails, etc than the simple fighter squadron demo on the web page you mentioned above...

Yeah I know, its a different one, its an old Futuremark PC one that was running on the Axim, fact remainsit was running on SE and not win mobile 2k5


do you know where to get that old demo?

[Darius Wey]

do you know where to get that old demo?

If I'm thinking what you're thinking, then you'd be looking for PowerVR's Fixed-Point Demo: http://www.powervr.com/Downloads/Demos/index.asp

[jgoodman]

do you know where to get that old demo?

If I'm thinking what you're thinking, then you'd be looking for PowerVR's Fixed-Point Demo: http://www.powervr.com/Downloads/Demos/index.asp

nahh, Ive got that, Im looking for the one with the big bombers thats in the video that started the thread...someone said it was "an older demo" from Futurmark for the 2700

thanks anyway~!