Further Details on the HTC Wizard Revealed

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=641623&page=6&pp=15' target='_blank'>http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...23&page=6&pp=15</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/htc-wizard.jpg" /><br /><br />The Howard Forums site has been a hotbed of news and rumours lately regarding HTC's upcoming products, and today for the first time we have an image of the forthcoming HTC Wizard. The specs: quad-band GSM with EDGE, 802.11g, Bluetooth, a 1.3 megapixel camera, and a 240 x 320 screen. The design looks rather thick to me, but this is a rendering and the real device in the hand will probably be quite a bit different. It looks like an interesting device!

[Darius Wey]

802.11g

About time! It's going to be great seeing 802.11g integrated in a batch of upcoming Pocket PCs. The future definitely looks bright!

[ricksfiona]

Man that looks thick!

[Swordsman74]

Umm...what am I not getting? This unit will be arriving after the HTC Universal, right? Yet the Universal has a full VGA screen and is thinner... That would make the Wizard a clear step backwards.

What did I miss?

[Jonathan1]

802.11g

About time! It's going to be great seeing 802.11g integrated in a batch of upcoming Pocket PCs. The future definitely looks bright!

Yah that’s great but wasn’t there a bottleneck with the OS itself when it comes to speed? :? I swear that Jason reported something about this last fall or last year sometime. What good is 802.11G if the OS is holding you up? Maybe 2005 will fix this.

[Darius Wey]

Yah that’s great but wasn’t there a bottleneck with the OS itself when it comes to speed? :? I swear that Jason reported something about this last fall or last year sometime. What good is 802.11G if the OS is holding you up? Maybe 2005 will fix this.

Windows Mobile 5.0 has full support for 802.11g. Earlier versions of Windows Mobile didn't.

[Jonathan1]

Yah that’s great but wasn’t there a bottleneck with the OS itself when it comes to speed? :? I swear that Jason reported something about this last fall or last year sometime. What good is 802.11G if the OS is holding you up? Maybe 2005 will fix this.

Windows Mobile 5.0 has full support for 802.11g. Earlier versions of Windows Mobile didn't.

Yah but I'm not talking about 802.11G. I'm talking just 802.11B speeds. I in fact I know that it was brought up because I remember a Palm friend giving me crap over it in that transfer rates were better on Palm then on PPC. OK time to start Googling.

[Darius Wey]

Yah but I'm not talking about 802.11G. I'm talking just 802.11B speeds. I in fact I know that it was brought up because I remember a Palm friend giving me crap over it in that transfer rates were better on Palm then on PPC. OK time to start Googling.

Right. I'm confused about what's going through your mind at the moment. First minute you were talking about 11g, next minute you're talking about 11b. :lol:

If you could point me to a link, that'd be great. ;)

[Fishie]

Umm...what am I not getting? This unit will be arriving after the HTC Universal, right? Yet the Universal has a full VGA screen and is thinner... That would make the Wizard a clear step backwards.

What did I miss?

Hows about a device thats actually pocketable and when making calls doesnt look like you are pressing something at the side of your head that looks like one of those ultraportable laptops?

[Kursplat]

Darius,

I think Jonathon is saying that the bottleneck is the OS and not network bandwidth. If the OS is maxed out and you still aren't even using 100% of "b" bandwidth, jumping to "G" means nothing. The OS is STILL the bottleneck.

Think of it this way: a P.O.S. car that can only get up to 35MPH is not suddenly going to go faster if it goes from a 55MPH road to a 75MPH road. It's still only gonna poke along at 35MPH, because the car is the bottleneck, not the speed limit of the road.

[KTamas]

Umm...what am I not getting? This unit will be arriving after the HTC Universal, right? Yet the Universal has a full VGA screen and is thinner... That would make the Wizard a clear step backwards.

What did I miss?

Hows about a device thats actually pocketable and when making calls doesnt look like you are pressing something at the side of your head that looks like one of those ultraportable laptops?
That is my problem with universal; it is cool, nice, feature-rich, but darn big...I still want it so much :P

[Darius Wey]

I think Jonathon is saying that the bottleneck is the OS and not network bandwidth. If the OS is maxed out and you still aren't even using 100% of "b" bandwidth, jumping to "G" means nothing. The OS is STILL the bottleneck. Think of it this way: a P.O.S. car that can only get up to 35MPH is not suddenly going to go faster if it goes from a 55MPH road to a 75MPH road. It's still only gonna poke along at 35MPH, because the car is the bottleneck, not the speed limit of the road.

Okay, I'm back on Earth now, and thinking along the same plane. If I'm not mistaken, Windows Mobile 5.0 has an updated NDIS and TCP/IP stack to enable faster communication rates. However, I'm not going to make any assertions until I get a device in my hand to confirm it.

[surur]

Yah but I'm not talking about 802.11G. I'm talking just 802.11B speeds. I in fact I know that it was brought up because I remember a Palm friend giving me crap over it in that transfer rates were better on Palm then on PPC. OK time to start Googling.

Right. I'm confused about what's going through your mind at the moment. First minute you were talking about 11g, next minute you're talking about 11b. :lol:

If you could point me to a link, that'd be great. ;)

I remember that article from about a year ago. Its definitely true that POS devices got much better throughput than WM devices using WIFI. It may have to do with multi-tasking, with OS attention being diverted to other tasks instead of I/O.

Regarding this device, I'd rather have a thin and big device than small and thick. It will crease my suite less.

Surur

Edit: Here's the link. Its actually from two years ago, testing the Tungsten C vs some ipaq's
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand%2C12695

[saru83]

So far it looks good, concerning features, its not clear yet, they might change a lot of things though.. btw, its not THAT thick :)

[zetsurin]

I still think the HTC Magician/imate JAM is the best design so far, so aside from the spec sheets I haven't seen anything drool-worthy yet... I wish they would just beef up the Magician. I suppose they need new designs otherwise consumers won't differentiate them as different models?

[griph]

Umm...what am I not getting? This unit will be arriving after the HTC Universal, right? Yet the Universal has a full VGA screen and is thinner... That would make the Wizard a clear step backwards.

What did I miss?
The Universal is substantially bigger. The MDA Compact (eg HTC Magician) I have has a 2.8" screen locked at 320 x 240 (QVGA) VGA is going to be of minimal benefit in a screen so small.

[BUMP THAT]

This is definately kool. But also looks like a brick. Doe this thing have a huge battery or the biggest RAM ever!?!?! :lol:

[Paragon]

Uh, this is nothing more than an artist's rendition. A little early, and difficult to pass judgment one way or the other on whether or not it's a brick, just yet I think.

I like it, much more than the Universal, at least for my needs.

I agree with the thought that with a 2.8" screen, VGA isn't quite as important....and I will place a very large bet on the Universal being thicker than this. The Universal is well on its way to being an 1" thick. If I'm not mistaken the Universal is 21.6mm thick. I think we are using the term, brick, on the wrong device. :huh: I remember the same things being said about the the first pictures of the JAM. It looked very thick, but once we saw the real thing we realized that it wasn't at all.

Dave

[Darius Wey]

And on top of that, I seriously doubt it'd be in HTC's best interests to model a next generation device as a brick after the smashing success of the Magician and its slick form factor.

I'm sure once this device hits RTM, you'll find it to be thinner than expected. Well, my thoughts anyway.

[griph]

I like it, much more than the Universal, at least for my needs. Me too! :)
I think we are using the term, brick, on the wrong device.
Dave I agree 100% - having had an MDA Compact now, to start using a Universal will feel like I'm lugging a Laptop!!! 8O

The slide out key board will very probably increase the depth of the unit - (provided the battery isnt down sized - which I hope it isn't - with all that WiFi etc being built in). But I doubt if it will grow more than 2 - 3mm in thickness - and overall the size of the Jam is so small anyway, that I dont believe the increase would be detrimental to its use or looks. I definitely wouldn't want to see a flip keyboard in lieu of a slide out!

It looks like the Magician TNG device will be a worthy sucessor to the existing one. Roll on Q3/05! :)

[DaleReeck]

I think Jonathon is saying that the bottleneck is the OS and not network bandwidth. If the OS is maxed out and you still aren't even using 100% of "b" bandwidth, jumping to "G" means nothing. The OS is STILL the bottleneck. Think of it this way: a P.O.S. car that can only get up to 35MPH is not suddenly going to go faster if it goes from a 55MPH road to a 75MPH road. It's still only gonna poke along at 35MPH, because the car is the bottleneck, not the speed limit of the road.

Okay, I'm back on Earth now, and thinking along the same plane. If I'm not mistaken, Windows Mobile 5.0 has an updated NDIS and TCP/IP stack to enable faster communication rates. However, I'm not going to make any assertions until I get a device in my hand to confirm it.

I thought the issue had been bus speeds of the hardware and their inability to make much use of 802.11g. I don't think even "b" works at maximum throughput rate on PPC's. "g" will work, but not seem any faster than "b" I thought was the deal.

[adamz]

I remember that article from about a year ago. Its definitely true that POS devices got much better throughput than WM devices using WIFI. It may have to do with multi-tasking, with OS attention being diverted to other tasks instead of I/O.

I think we're getting mixed acronyms here.
Is POS "Piece of S***" or "Palm OS"?

[Darius Wey]

I thought the issue had been bus speeds of the hardware and their inability to make much use of 802.11g. I don't think even "b" works at maximum throughput rate on PPC's. "g" will work, but not seem any faster than "b" I thought was the deal.

Kickstarting my brain here... IIRC, it was a combination of bus and stack limitations.

[Dinosaur]

I think we're getting mixed acronyms here.
Is POS "Piece of S***" or "Palm OS"?

Hahahahahahahaha.....one and the same! :devilboy:

[surur]

I remember that article from about a year ago. Its definitely true that POS devices got much better throughput than WM devices using WIFI. It may have to do with multi-tasking, with OS attention being diverted to other tasks instead of I/O.

I think we're getting mixed acronyms here.
Is POS "Piece of S***" or "Palm OS"?

Both of course ;)

Regarding WIFI throughput, the OS certainly has a big role to play. This is illustrated by differing streaming speeds over WIFI in Beta player when the the thread is in the foreground or background.

Surur

[Paragon]

I think PIE plays a big roll in this as well, when surfing. It doesn't have the ability to render pages fast enough for "b" let alone "g". I can say this though.....better to have g than no b or g. As long as they at least get WiFi on the little bugger. ;)

Dave

[Jason Dunn]

I think PIE plays a big roll in this as well, when surfing. It doesn't have the ability to render pages fast enough for "b" let alone "g". I can say this though...

Very true. PIE is horribly slow, so the testing the load time of a Web page only gives you the speed of the HTML rendering engine, not the speed of the network. You'd have to do a network file transfer for something like that. The move to 802.11g is more about the evolution of the wireless networking standard, and hopefully better battery life, moreso than "more speed".

[whydidnt]

Regarding the "thickness" debate: One of the rumors I've read has this device with a slide out keyboard - useable when the device is in landscape mode. That would probably add a little thickness to the Jam, as we see in these renderings.

It seems to me that HTC is starting to "get it" in regards to what the general public wants from these devices - easy text input - which can only be provided by a built-in keyboard. Joe Public is not willing to invest the time necessary to learn to deal with handwritining recognition of any kind.

[Paragon]

The move to 802.11g is more about the evolution of the wireless networking standard, and hopefully better battery life, moreso than "more speed".

Very good point, Jason....assuming this is in fact true, and you said like you know that it is. One thing we will all agree on, is that WiFi is a huge battery killer, so any improvement in this are is more than welcome, and worth a millimeter or two in thickness if needs be. :)

Dave

[tut00]

Personally, I hate those darn keyboards. Give me the HTC universal without the keyboard and I'm game!!!

BTW: Not to sound like a total know nothing, and not meaning to go totally off topic... Can you get these devices in the US and use them on Cingular??? I keep seeing these cool devices on the web and in the forums, but not at the cingular store. Same goes for the IMate stuff. Thanks.

-John

[Paragon]

It seems to me that HTC is starting to "get it" in regards to what the general public wants from these devices

I think HTC, and probably many other OEMs "got it" quite some time ago, but have been rationing out features. The electronics industry has always used this as a marketing tool. Why sell you the complete list of features in one device, when they can gradually feed them to you in a number of new and upgraded devices. ;) I've never liked it much, but in their shoes, I'm not so sure I wouldn't do the same.

Dave

[Paragon]

Can you get these devices in the US and use them on Cingular??? I keep seeing these cool devices on the web and in the forums, but not at the cingular store. Same goes for the IMate stuff. Thanks.

-John

Yes. North American carriers have been notoriously slow at picking up high end data devices such as these. They are available in limited selection, with some carriers. This is where iMate shines. You can buy iMate devices from a number of suppliers in the USA, Canada, and around the world, in areas where carriers don't have them. If it is iMate, or Qtek, who are coming to North America as well very soon, then the device is unlocked, so you can just slip your SIM card in, and you are good to go.

Dave

[Muntasser]

that thing looks about as portable as a tv dinner

[maximus]

Hei hei hei. Stop it. No more new devices please. I just got my xda2s 2 weeks ago. And wife's xda2mini is barely 2 months old. Give us at least another 6 months to use the latest-and-greatest xdas.

Bleh.

[Darius Wey]

Hei hei hei. Stop it. No more new devices please. I just got my xda2s 2 weeks ago. And wife's xda2mini is barely 2 months old. Give us at least another 6 months to use the latest-and-greatest xdas.

Relax, Maximus. Those two devices have sturdy lifespans and will definitely last you a long time, ... as long as you don't need the latest and greatest. :lol:

[Jonathon Watkins]

... as long as you don't need the latest and greatest. :lol:

And who here among us doesn't? :devilboy: