No Windows Mobile 5.0 Upgrade for the Audiovox PPC6600/XV6600

[Darius Wey]

<img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050514-Audiovox.gif" /><br /><br />A reader just contacted us after receiving a reply email from Audiovox regarding a Windows Mobile 5.0 upgrade for the Audiovox PPC6600/XV6600. For all you interested Audiovox folk, the answer is no, you won't be receiving an upgrade. According to Audiovox, it's all due to the persistent memory storage feature supported in the new platform. With 64MB ROM, it's "just not enough". I find that to be quite a claim given the fact that HP are willing to offer the upgrade to the iPAQ hx2100 and hx2400 series - these devices also having 64MB ROM.

[Paragon]

I wonder if this is coming from HTC. The rumors seem pretty solid that Carrier Devices (iMate) won't be offering upgrades either. I wonder if it is HTC who is calling the shots on this?

Dave

[Darius Wey]

I wonder if it is HTC who is calling the shots on this?

Yikes, I sure hope not. Otherwise, that'd be a nasty tactic used by HTC to help promote their Universal as a "Windows Mobile 5" device.

[Paragon]

I wonder if it is HTC who is calling the shots on this?

Yikes, I sure hope not. Otherwise, that'd be a nasty tactic used by HTC to help promote their Universal as a "Windows Mobile 5" device.

All speculation at this point. It could be that they have different agreements with different carriers as well...for this price we will include OS ROM upgrades. At this price we won't??? It's hard to tell. We do know that most if not all ROMs for Phone Edition devices by HTC for the carries originate with HTC.

Dave

[William Yeung]

Yes, it should not be ROM related I think, given the facts hx2110 is upgradeable- BUT a problem arise. I think we are all talking about Phone Edition devices, uptill now really no device with 64mb ROM as phone edition is upgradeable (sadly I am h6365 owner...)

I really hope that fits in my phone, as I want to upgrade as well- mainly hope the upgrade will do better in terms of resources handling, I think 64mb runtime memory would help us a lot to resolve the bottleneck indeed.

By the way Brighthand's recent article is deadly wrong- they said its because of 64mb ROM the devices cannot upgrade, I think the guy is not paying enough attention to hx2110 announcement. I am also upseted so many people give him a thumbs up while this serious fact mistake exist in his opinion based article. (Anyway not to fingerpointing, but its just rather misleading on this one)

Lets hope PPC Phone would fits in 64mb ROM and guys who released the device within 1 year (aka HP) will upgrade the ROM for us.

[Ed Hansberry]

Keep in mind the Phone Edition ROMs are larger than the regular ROM, so the HP standalone PDAs might be able to handle it with 64MB but the XDAIII may not be able to - not and have any meaningful ROM left over for your files and installed applications.

[carphead]

I think the reason behind it is that the carriers won't put into the pot to upgrade the devices.

If say O2 give payed up for HTC to develop a upgrade for it then T-Mobile came along and took the upgrade after O2 had put the time in then they'd be problems. The only way it could happen is if all the carriers stumped up for the upgrade then it might happen.

But then the carriers could lock you in for another 12/24 months with a new contract. And it's all about 3G these days in the UK / Europe !

[that_kid]

This is the problem that I have with the way the OS is distributed. At some point in time people will stop buying device after device just to get the OS. The same thing happened with my ipaq 5555 no 2003SE upgrade from HP while new devices with less memory show up with the new OS. If I paid only one or two hundred bucks for the device then It wouldn't be so bad but at $500+ it's just crazy.

[Kevin Daly]

Despite my allleged innate cynicism I think that Audiovox are probably being truthful, and the comparison between an upgrade for a Phone Edition device and one for an ordinary Pocket PC is a case of apples and oranges.

This pretty much confirms what I'd already expected (no upgrade coming for my Harrier).
It's a shame, since it looks like WM5 really shines for this class of device, and some of the coolest new APIs are only really useful for a phone.

Still, I don't think I have any reason to complain, since it's just One Of Those Things (marks this moment down in history folks, I don't say things like that very often).

PS. The fact that I also have an hx4700 is probaby contributing to my relatively cheerful acceptance of this fact. That and the fact that I'm trying really hard to get a job in Europe, where my Harrier wouldn't be any use to me anyway - so it's looking like there's an HTC Universal in my future.

[badbob001]

Too bad we can't get a company rep to eat a rom chip when their next-gen phones with Windows Mobile 5.0 come with only 64MB rom. You expect a smartphone to have the same rom space and a top of the line pocketpc like the axim x50v or hp 4700? Smartphones don't come with Word, Excel, or Powerpoint mobile, so why do they need more space? They can dump all those stupid wallpapers and annoying ringtones!

[Len Egan]

I am a disappointed 6601 user. As I just got the device 1 month ago, I am irked that a "new" device won't upgrade and we all know that they usually do. Ironically, I sold my Axim X50v/Motorola v710 for the audiovox. Thought I'd finally converge. What a nitwit!

Actually, I do like it so far.

My instincts were telling me to wait for the Samsung I-300 too. Originally the rumors were that it would show up at the end of March. Oh well, since 2001 I have averaged a new device every 6 months. Not because I had to but because I wanted the newest "toy". Went from iPAQ 3650 to 3835 because of PPC 2002. Then to the 2215 because of PPC 2003. Then to Toshiba E-800 because of VGA. Then to Axim x50v because it had VGA AND WiFi/Bluetooth combo. It is time for me to start really settling down with a device.

Having said all that, if I see any phone edition with 64mb, and I mean ANY, I'll really be ticked!

[Jon Westfall]

I am a disappointed 6601 user. As I just got the device 1 month ago, I am irked that a "new" device won't upgrade and we all know that they usually do. Ironically, I sold my Axim X50v/Motorola v710 for the audiovox. Thought I'd finally converge. What a nitwit!

Actually, I do like it so far.

My instincts were telling me to wait for the Samsung I-300 too. Originally the rumors were that it would show up at the end of March. Oh well, since 2001 I have averaged a new device every 6 months. Not because I had to but because I wanted the newest "toy". Went from iPAQ 3650 to 3835 because of PPC 2002. Then to the 2215 because of PPC 2003. Then to Toshiba E-800 because of VGA. Then to Axim x50v because it had VGA AND WiFi/Bluetooth combo. It is time for me to start really settling down with a device.

Having said all that, if I see any phone edition with 64mb, and I mean ANY, I'll really be ticked!

Its always sad to give something up and then less than a month later find you could have had an upgrade with the "old" toy. But if we never take the chances, we stick with older devices way too long (Well, old to us...). In the end, if you're enjoying the converged life better than 2 devices, you're in the right machine.

HTC pulling the strings on these devices ROM updates would make a lot of sense. We all remember that the rom update for the 6300 series came first for the HP units, then for the HP-T-Mobile (6315) units. The extra time was to tailor it to be carrier specific, which I suspect HTC does all the time, which is why updates on clubimate appear faster than O2 or Qtek's updates. Looks like they aren't going to try with the third generation products (The XDA III-types), but will have it with the fourth generation Universals.

[Darius Wey]

Keep in mind the Phone Edition ROMs are larger than the regular ROM, so the HP standalone PDAs might be able to handle it with 64MB but the XDAIII may not be able to - not and have any meaningful ROM left over for your files and installed applications.

Hmmm, good point. Although I'd be interested in seeing how much space the WM5 Phone Edition ROMs would take up. If I recall correctly, the base footprint of WM5 without the added extras is 18-19MB. Surely it can't blow out to ~64MB? 8O

[Paragon]

Although I'd be interested in seeing how much space the WM5 Phone Edition ROMs would take up. If I recall correctly, the base footprint of WM5 without the added extras is 18-19MB. Surely it can't blow out to ~64MB? 8O

No it wouldn't blow out to 64mb, but with the idea of persistent storage, by the time you put the ROM on a 64mb chip there isn't much room to "persistently" store much else. Now add to that the extra bits for the Phone Edition and it could make things a little dicey, right?

Dave

[lekim2]

OK, so it's a 'cracked' ROM image with the Extended Rom omitted but with all 'usuful' functionality of the phone available, but you CAN get a Jam configuration with 27Mb 'persistent storage' instead of the 7Mb as installed from a standard ROM image. Need to use some of that for best parts of the extended ROM. So it must be possible to sort something out technically.

I'd love to get 05 on my i-Mate, but I, and my phone, can function adequately without it.

[Darius Wey]

No it wouldn't blow out to 64mb, but with the idea of persistent storage, by the time you put the ROM on a 64mb chip there isn't much room to "persistently" store much else. Now add to that the extra bits for the Phone Edition and it could make things a little dicey, right?

Actually, that was my point. How much extra space for persistent storage would you gain with a standard Pocket PC over a Phone Edition - each having 64MB of ROM. Obviously without a Windows Mobile 5 device at the moment, it's hard to compare the two.

[Paragon]

OK, so it's a 'cracked' ROM image with the Extended Rom omitted but with all 'usuful' functionality of the phone available, but you CAN get a Jam configuration with 27Mb 'persistent storage' instead of the 7Mb as installed from a standard ROM image. Need to use some of that for best parts of the extended ROM. So it must be possible to sort something out technically.

I'd love to get 05 on my i-Mate, but I, and my phone, can function adequately without it.

Ok, so add a bit to the 27MB for the extended ROM, and call it 32MB. That leaves you with about 32MB of storage. How happy are you going to be with that, consider that most people complain that 64MB is not enough. Remeber RAM is only there to run applications now. Everything else, applications, files, and everything will have to fit in that 32MB, or on a storage card. Also we have to figure that the finished product of WM5.0 will be larger than what we are talking about here.

Also consider the fact that so far we are only considering the physical issues here. We haven't touched on the financial, marketing, sales, and profit side of the issue. Personally that can of worms is much too smelly for me. :)

Dave

[Darius Wey]

Ok, so add a bit to the 27MB for the extended ROM, and call it 32MB. That leaves you with about 32MB of storage. How happy are you going to be with that, consider that most people complain that 64MB is not enough. Remeber RAM is only there to run applications now. Everything else, applications, files, and everything will have to fit in that 32MB, or on a storage card. Also we have to figure that the finished product of WM5.0 will be larger than what we are talking about here.

Actually, you know what the problem is? My h1940 has 64MB of RAM (and not taking persistent memory storage into consideration), which leaves a little under 32MB for both program memory and storage memory. I guess I've always pushed it to the limits and haven't been irked by the fact that 32MB for storage may or may not be enough. I've managed to use it up to now without getting too frustrated, but ideally, I'd love to have more.

With Windows Mobile 5, let's say that indeed you have 32MB left over for storage, that may or may not be enough for some, but I can now see why some companies would not be willing to offer an upgrade for that simple fact. I guess we'll have to wait for the hx2000 users to start complaining that they don't have enough room for storage before we start to see the reality of the situation.

Also consider the fact that so far we are only considering the physical issues here. We haven't touched on the financial, marketing, sales, and profit side of the issue. Personally that can of worms is much too smelly for me. :)

Yeah, let's not go there. I hate smelly worms. ;)

[Paragon]

With Windows Mobile 5, let's say that indeed you have 32MB left over for storage, that may or may not be enough for some, but I can now see why some companies would not be willing to offer an upgrade for that simple fact. I guess we'll have to wait for the hx2000 users to start complaining that they don't have enough room for storage before we start to see the reality of the situation.

Yeah, I think we will have to wait and see.

I think it is pretty fair bet that WM 5.0 is going to be quite a bit bigger than WM2003SE. It now has richer versions of Word, Excel, Inbox, Explorer, and a PowerPoint application as well. Not to mention a lot of under the hood stuff to make it easier to tie third party apps into things like GPS....and so on, and so on....



Yeah, let's not go there. I hate smelly worms. ;)

I've stepped into that can before, and the smell still lingers....I ain't doing it again. ;)

[zetsurin]

This is the problem that I have with the way the OS is distributed. At some point in time people will stop buying device after device just to get the OS. The same thing happened with my ipaq 5555 no 2003SE upgrade from HP while new devices with less memory show up with the new OS. If I paid only one or two hundred bucks for the device then It wouldn't be so bad but at $500+ it's just crazy.

Yep. that's pretty mcuh what stage I am at now. After buying 5 PPC devices now (last one being HTC Magician) I'm simply not interested in paying $$$ again for a new device (when I bought my last one just 6 months ago) simply in order to buy another subtle improvement (and it really IS just nother subtle improvement, word, excel etc still suck) to the OS and a device that will do almost EXACTLY the same functions my device can do now. I'm going to try a symbian device next...