StyleTap Platform: Palm OS Applications on your Pocket PC

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.styletap.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.styletap.com/</a><br /><br /></div><i>"StyleTap Inc., a leading innovator in software platforms for PDAs and smartphones, today announced the availability of StyleTap™ Platform for Windows Mobile™-based Pocket PCs. This exciting new product allows applications originally written for Palm OS® handhelds to run on Windows Mobile™-based PDAs. With more than 20,000 Palm OS® applications available – many of them free – users of Windows-based PDAs will now have an enormous range of applications to choose from."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050429-StyleTap.gif" /><br /><br />For all Palm users out there, now you really have no excuse to not make that next PDA purchase a Pocket PC. :P StyleTap Platform allows you to run most applications designed for Palm OS 5.2 (and earlier) on your Pocket PC. Despite the fact that it supports VGA, there are a few limitations - namely, the lack of support for conduits, "hacks", and Bluetooth. More details can be found <a href="http://www.styletap.com/products.html">here</a>. Since there's a free trial version available, I'm about to give this a go. I'm sure some of you will want to as well. If you're after the full version, it's selling at a special introductory price of $29.95.

[ucfgrad93]

Interesting, but Ed Hardy at Brighthand has reported some problems.

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?threadid=117915

[Jonathon Watkins]

Interesting, but Ed Hardy at Brighthand has reported some problems.

Sure, but this IS a beta. This application has great potential. :mrgreen:

Come, join us! :wink:

[Jonathan1]

Cool so the vaporware that was floating around on the net oh so long ago has solidified. Nice.

[IpaqMan2]

Wow... I hope they keep working on this software. Truth is there's still a couple programs for the Palm that are still really good to use which has never made it over to the pocket pc and would love to be able to still use them.

[surur]

This is nice for switchers, who can leverage their existing software investment when they come to pocketpc's, but that software is there in Palm land which I should really be caring about?

Surur

[Jonathon Watkins]

.... there's still a couple programs for the Palm that are still really good to use which has never made it over to the pocket pc and would love to be able to still use them.

Which programs were you thinking of IpaqMan2?

[foebea]

Hacker's Diet here I come!
http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/palm/

[Menneisyys]

.... there's still a couple programs for the Palm that are still really good to use which has never made it over to the pocket pc and would love to be able to still use them.

Which programs were you thinking of IpaqMan2?

For example, Acedior, from trhe same people that created Fade, by far the best "classic" text-oriented adventure game for the Pocket PC and refused to port their next adventure hit, Acedior, to the PPC.

I wonder if it works (not that I don't like my Zire 71- it's a very nice device :) ) in the emulator.

[Alpha2004]

Amazing. This program is excellent.

They should add user selectable view modes (not only 100 percent and 66%)

[Darius Wey]

They should add user selectable view modes (not only 100 percent and 66%)

Agreed. I don't have much use for it overall since the programs I was interested in refuse to budge, but the functionality is nice regardless. But given the fact that this is a beta, I'm sure we'll expect some tweaks along the way that will improve compatibility and support for some of the more troublesome programs out there.

[Gerard]

Last month a new member of our local PPC group was explaining to me how he had to keep his Palm for a few programs which just aren't available in any form for PPC. He loves media functionality, especially BetaPlayer (now re-dubbed Core), and the unified UI of so many PPC apps compared to Palm, but one big one he's missing is a 400,000+ entry lexicon/dictionary etcetera for puzzlers. He's checked everything for PPC and nothing comes close. I'm guessing guys like that will be seriously tickled if this thing comes through beta and becomes a completely stable application-enabler.

[ctmagnus]

Hm... I've heard good things about DateBk4. And one other one that's probably too new to run on this. Can't recall the name atm.

[PBR]

As soon as I figure out how to change the Hotsync name in the program I am buying it !

[stronggeek]

Last month a new member of our local PPC group was explaining to me how he had to keep his Palm for a few programs which just aren't available in any form for PPC.

For the kast couple hours I've been using 2 work related apps on my 4705 that I normally have to dig out my Sony NX80(Palm OS) for!

After registering this app (whenever they release it) I can finally sell my palm os unit.

I for one am a "happy camper"!

PS. One thing that is exteremly noticeable when viewing the 2 different unitsi side by side with the exact same app on both screen how much better the 4705's screen truly is!

[IndyPerk]

As soon as I figure out how to change the Hot sync name in the program I am buying it !

I sent an e-mail to tech support today about that very issue. I've got 5 programs loaded that I never could get in PPC or didn't like the limited equivalent.

As soon as I see that I can use my existing registration codes I'm putting my money down. This will certainly kill the high end Palm market. No power user is going to stay with the hardware offerings Palm has when they can run their favorite apps on a PPC.

[huangzhinong]

I tried Gene v1.0, Biologiest V1.0, bugme V4, all works very well. The only pity is I need buy a VGA device to get the 320*320 resolution.

Very good program, which also generate the shortcuts for each loaded programs., therefore you can run the POS program exactly like PPC programs.

I may not buy it since I can't find any POS programs which I can't survive without it. Bugme is one of my favorite POS program, which also has a PPC version. The latest version doesn't run in WM2003 SE. After I found bugme v2.0 runs in WM2003SE perfectly, I don't have any pity about POS softwares.

[krypticide]

So if you run DateBk4 or other PIM-related programs like LifeBalance, do they work? Will they sync with the PIM data on the Pocket PC?

I'm guessing no...

[ctmagnus]

...DateBk4 or other PIM-related programs like LifeBalance...

That's the other one I was trying to think of! :)

[huangzhinong]

So if you run DateBk4 or other PIM-related programs like LifeBalance, do they work? Will they sync with the PIM data on the Pocket PC?

I'm guessing no...

No, datebk5 runs at first, but can't find database, then terminate. This program is not an emulator, so there is no buildin programs like calendar, contacts at all. Running datebk5 the second time will freeze your devices.

[krypticide]

Ah, that's too bad...still wishing the Llamas would release LifeBalance for Pocket PC (I had bought the Windows and Palm version). They're totally missing out on a huge and still growing market.

Unfortunately for them, I've been using Pocket Informant and it works quite well. Thank the programmers for multiple categories.

[ctmagnus]

They cliam to have PPC version in the works. And it's apparently written to take advantage of the .Net framework, so porting it over shouldn't be too difficult. At any rate, I've signed up to be notified if/when they realese a version for the Pocket PC.

[krypticide]

Same here, I've signed up but the list is deathly quiet.

[Menneisyys]

It's indeed a GREAT emulator! I love it! If only it had support for sound...

I think I need to elaborate on what Ed said over at BH ("However, just about every application I installed myself had problems of one kind or another."). I've tested the emulator with a lot of new Astraware games (I frequently play them on my Zire 71) and found that most of them work. Sure, there's no sound, but the games are actually playable and have decent speed.

Games that work flawlessly in 66% (VGA/SE, no pixel doubling) mode:

Equilibria
Hellfire
RocketMania
SAIS
Tantric
ToucanTango
Tradewinds


Games that don't work in 66% (Hi-Res on a VGA/SE screen with no pixel doubling) mode, but works in 100% (Low-Res, pixel doubling in SE):

WordMojo

Games that don't work at all in either 66% or 100%:

Candy Cruncher
Chroma Games
Mazera (os5 Hi-Res version) (interestingly, it complains of the lack of a POS5 device, unlike all the other games that are also POS5).

I haven't managed to test Acedior as yet.

[Alpha2004]

Umm, there is sound support for it.

This emulator seems to have problems with buttons other than the dpad.

In games like bike or die! , and astraware zap 2016...the hardware buttons only work once in a while *presses calendar button 1000 times*

[stronggeek]

I use my 4705 for the most part, but 3 of my main palm apps (used for business) have no PPC equals.

I decided to installed my "Saved Prefs" in the database folder that lies within the Styletap folder and the results were fantastic in that many of my settings were preserved!

Obviously there are many apps that need the HS id and I hope there'll be a fix for it, but I'm stisfied for now.

I'm a personal trainer some many of my apps are unique, have no condiuts or desktop counterparts anyway (I backup to cf/ms/sd and back them up to pc anyway) and a lot folks may not have for a use for them.

Apps that work flawlessly for me and alone made this worth the "price of admission" are:
Muxel Map (nothing like this exist for the PPC platform)
BFC (Program to calculate. enter and track bofyfat readings for all my clients. Again, there's nothing like this for the PPC platform)
PDAbs (another Palm os clent tracking program that does have a desktop conduit that of course I can't use with this, but I'll live sense I couldn't use PDAbs on my ppc at all before now)

PS. Two of the above don't require a HS id so I'll have issues with the one that does later (I belive there may be a way around this, but ...)

Mainstream apps that did work (Some I've purchased and others I'm just trying out).

-Many have conduits but can't be synced of course, but we knew that

-some actually render better on my 4705 than on my NX80(palm), others don't look quite as good, some just don't take advantage of the unit's screen-estate, while others just flat out won't run.

-When an app won't run after attempting to do so it will either shut down and go back to the palm launcher or close the Styletap app, but I've experienced no soft resets and of courese no hard resets.

-Uses a lot of ram, but again worth it to me

-All in all not at all bad for a beta!

ptunes Now though I'm using what to me is a better app for music on my ppc I tried Ptunes and it did work (but you can't uses a skin) and I had to be careful increasing the base because the speaker on the 4705 could get fried.

Bonsai-okay
Formula- great
Smartlist- okay
Handyshopper (which it beta's with) okay
Repligo-okay
PsMemo (Oh yeah, and I also coppied the memo database to the "db" great folder as well)
Agendus barely to okay
Splash Id okay
SuperMemo (Yes, I sill use this) great
Double Chess great
Blackjack Mentor great
Blackjack Expert[ great/b]

Note: Even though many of the above mentioned apps have desktop conduits, but can't be synced it may still please still others to know that you can run thoses apps with the associated databases.

I actually have some databases that rarely change, but had to be ported from the desktop to the palm/pc.

Also, I've already found some apps that just do it better than some of the palm apps.


[b]A Few Games

Worked
Chessgenius
Spellbound
Triv
AcidFreecell (with sound)
CasinoCraps


Not working:
Bugme (claims not enough memory)
Hearts
Craps

Conclusion: I like because for the most part it does what it's suppose to do and works with MY apps! Also as I mentioned before it's still in beta and there are still many apps I have not tried.

[huangzhinong]

Bugme V4.0 works very well in both 100% and 66% display size. My device is x30.

[chefz]

I've been reading all the threads about this program, and haven't seen any screenshots - not even the StyleTap website had any!? So I installed the demo on my Ipaq 1930, and took some screenies in case anyone was interested:

http://www.spotted-dog-design.com/pocketpc/Palm1.gif http://www.spotted-dog-design.com/pocketpc/Palm3.gif

http://www.spotted-dog-design.com/pocketpc/Palm5.gif http://www.spotted-dog-design.com/pocketpc/Palm4.gif

I didn't change or install any Palm programs after installing the demo, the two shown are HandyShopper and some kind of minesweeper clone - oddly enough, the trial is supposed to last 14 days, and after closing and opening the program again not 20 minutes later, it said only 13 days were left. And I don't know what's up with the fonts, but they look really bad. Anyways, that's just what I have after playing with it for a few minutes :D

[huangzhinong]

And I don't know what's up with the fonts, but they look really bad. Anyways, that's just what I have after playing with it for a few minutes :D

Change the display size to 66%, you will see the font is exactly same as in Palm devices.

[chefz]

8O oh! Duh, thanks for the tip. :lol:

[Darius Wey]

And I don't know what's up with the fonts, but they look really bad. Anyways, that's just what I have after playing with it for a few minutes :D

Change the display size to 66%, you will see the font is exactly same as in Palm devices.

Yes, the scaling issue is something, if improved on, would benefit the program greatly. Having a 160px sized emulator on a QVGA device isn't great on the eyes, so you can imagine what StyleTap would look like on a VGA device.

[IndyPerk]

Too bad that Style Tap has just killed their market for this product. From their web site:

Many users have suggested that StyleTap™ Platform should let them specify the user name that is returned by this function, so that an application that was previously registered for a particular user name would also run, in fully licensed mode, under StyleTap™ Platform on a Windows Mobile™ device.

StyleTap believes that, in many or most cases, this would lead to a violation of the EULA for that application program. As a result, StyleTap™ Platform does NOT allow you to specify the user name. Instead, StyleTap™ Platform generates a user name that is a 10-character alphanumeric string that is different for every handheld device. You cannot change this value and it will not change when different versions of StyleTap™ Platform are installed on your handheld device.

As a result, licenses that were previously registered for a different user name will not run in fully-licensed mode under StyleTap™ Platform.

Since most users who would buy this program are previous Palm owners who have switched to PPC this makes no sense. I can change the hot sync ID on any Palm OS product at any time. :( 8O :cry:

[stronggeek]

I've already re-registered 3 of my own palm apps to be used with the new hotsync name that Styletap generates.

I'm sure I'll have some problems with some of the developers as I have a few that haven't responded to my "change of hotsync name-need a new reg number" email, but since i really don't plan on going back to palm (for now, but who knows?) I'm a happy camper.

I belive this is the only way that they could introduce this product and not step on any toes (in other words run into legality issues).

[Ommadawn]

Too bad that Style Tap has just killed their market for this product. From their web site:

Many users have suggested that StyleTap™ Platform should let them specify the user name that is returned by this function, so that an application that was previously registered for a particular user name would also run, in fully licensed mode, under StyleTap™ Platform on a Windows Mobile™ device.

StyleTap believes that, in many or most cases, this would lead to a violation of the EULA for that application program. As a result, StyleTap™ Platform does NOT allow you to specify the user name. Instead, StyleTap™ Platform generates a user name that is a 10-character alphanumeric string that is different for every handheld device. You cannot change this value and it will not change when different versions of StyleTap™ Platform are installed on your handheld device.

As a result, licenses that were previously registered for a different user name will not run in fully-licensed mode under StyleTap™ Platform.

Since most users who would buy this program are previous Palm owners who have switched to PPC this makes no sense. I can change the hot sync ID on any Palm OS product at any time. :( 8O :cry:

I think they should have approached this differently. Maybe asking for a hotsync ID the first time the program is run, then "locking" that ID in so it can't be changed. That way most ex-palm users would have been able to use their old software without having a piracy issue.... &lt;sigh>

[Menneisyys]

I've tested the latest version, beta 0.9.61 that has just been released. Please see http://www.styletap.com/main.php?page=downloads.html for downloading.

The new version is clearly better than the pevious one with clearly better compatibility. (Please see my compatibility list at, say, http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39670&amp;postdays=0&amp;postorder=asc&amp;start=20 , of the previous version).

I've re-run my compatibility tests with the new version, on my VGA Pocket Loox 720 so that I can also test the 320*320 HiRes mode (who would want to play games in 160*160 LoRes?).

I haven't tested with the previous version; works flawlessly with the new: Bejeweled 2 and Insaniquarium. Please note that the later crashed upon loading when I installed the app on a storage card; off main memory, it worked flawlessly.

Compared to the program compatibility of the previous version, Candy Cruncher works and so does WordMojo. The latter didn't work in 66% (Hi-Res on a VGA/SE screen with no pixel doubling) mode, but works in 100% (Low-Res, pixel doubling in SE) with the pewvious version; with the new, it works in Hi-Res too.

Still doesn't work:

Chroma Games
Bejeweled
Mazera (os5 Hi-Res version) (interestingly, it complains of the lack of a POS5 device, unlike all the other games that are also POS5).

Works, but has some control problems (left/right doesn't work, not even after button reassignment): Hellfire

All other apps that proved OK still work in this release too:
Equilibria
RocketMania
SAIS
Tantric
ToucanTango
Tradewinds

The overall speed of the emulation is clearly lower than with a native OS5 device (say, the Zire 71 - I've directly compared the emulation speed to that of my Zire 71), especially concerning sounds. However, most games (even Hellfire!) run pretty smooth and are actually playable.

Also, keep in mind that if you want to test dozens of programs with the emulator, install it in the main memory. It'll keep its converted files in main memory too, but the conversion process will be much faster and in some cases (like the one with Insaniquarium), it'll be the only way to run the apps.

[danielzr]

Styletap has been updated to 0.9.065 (they call it the Second Preview Release - even though 0.9.061 existed)

http://www.styletap.com/main.php?page=downloads.html

The release notes explain what changes since 0.9.50
and 'ignores' the previous presence of 0.9.61 - so I'm not sure what changed from 0.9.61 to 0.9.65.

I don't see it listed above -- but 0.9.61 already allowed users to change their Syncid (once each 24 hours).

http://www.styletap.com/release_notes.html

Some of the knowledgebase articles are currently out of date, due to the changes in this Preview.

[surur]

Can anyone tell me, if a POS program crashes on Styletap, does it take down the whole device, just the styletap environment, or just that instance of the program?

Also, does styletap allow one to multi-task POS software?

Surur

[Darius Wey]

Can anyone tell me, if a POS program crashes on Styletap, does it take down the whole device, just the styletap environment, or just that instance of the program?

Usually just the StyleTap environment, although once, it did bring down my entire device, so I needed to soft reset.

Also, does styletap allow one to multi-task POS software?

Sort of. If memory serves me correctly, each Palm OS program runs as a "separate" Pocket PC event - which mimics the multitasking effect (so you can open and close each application using a Pocket PC task manager). The StyleTap environment itself is similar to the Palm OS environment.

[TimothyP]

I previously had a Palm device, now i have a pocket pc (Loox N560). There are a few Palm apps that i want on my pocket pc, but i didnt want to pay for them (some were offered at a discount, but still to pricey). So will the following apps work on my device if i use StyleTap:

Tube 2
Isilo
TomeRaider
Monopoly - handmark
Scrabble - handmark
Tetris - handmark

Im using the same user name i used on my Palm that im using for my Pocket PC. Will these apps run without me having to purchase separate registration codes?