Reviews of Spb Diary Begin to Surface

[Darius Wey]

<img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050428-SpbDiary.gif" /><br /><br />Since <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,39617">yesterday's announcement</a> of Spb Diary, a number of reviews have started to surface - namely, at <a href="http://www.mtekk.com.au/browse/page1052.html">MTekk,</a> <a href="http://www.clintonfitch.com/reviews/spb/diary-1-0/default.asp">ClintonFitch.com</a> and <a href="http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?ContentId=4413">Geekzone.</a> Although Diary is packed with features, each reviewer appears to have a different view of the product. Some have given it all praise, while some have not. At MTekk, the final assessment appeared a little ho-hum with a score of 6.5, and many community members across many websites have cried out for originality after claims that it "looks" and "feels" too much like SBSH PocketBreeze. Personally, I think the whole "X copied Y" issue is a moot point, and besides, they say competition brews innovation, so with time, I'm sure we'll see each product pan out to be unique in their own ways. So for those of you who have tried Spb Diary, what are your thoughts? It'd be great if this were kept an active discussion solely on Spb Diary, its features, and its ups and downs, and not just another Spb vs. SBSH rant.

[dommasters]

besides, they say competition brews innovation

It's great when this happens but SPB have merely copied Pocket Breeze without really adding anything to it IMO.

However the poll I put here
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39642
shows that most feel it is not similar atall so I think the rest of us could be wrong on this one :oops:
Dom

[dommasters]

not just another Spb vs. SBSH rant If it had been a copy (and I accept it appears it is not) then it's not ranting, just taking a stand against an apparently 'legalised' form of piracy that will harm developers and eventually the market as a whole in the long term....
Dom

[dommasters]

Here's a great review:

"I've only been using the app for several days (being one of the lucky few to get an advance copy for review purposes), and I am quite simply, blown away by what Spb Software House has created. This app is incredible! As I explored the application, I kept stumbling upon cool feature after cool feature, each time saying, "Brilliant!"

http://pocketpclouisville.com/reviews/Spb_Diary_review.htm[/url]

[sheik]

There are definitely some strong feelings about this issue.
I think it is on-topic to point out that the developer of the software that has allegedly been copied has posted about it on his own site. (http://www.sbsh.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4303#)
Does anyone know if Spb have released a statement?

Full disclosure: I am a registered user of SBSH Pocket Breeze, SBSH Pocket Weather and Sbp Pocket Plus. I haven't used Pocket Diary but it looks similar enough from the screenshots that I think Sbp were naive to think they could release it without a community backlash.

/\dam

[cmoore]

Ok, I have read all of the arguments about copying and there are loads on aximsite but this was supposed to be about Diary...

I have previously installed a trial version of Pocket Breeze and for some reason decided not to buy it. I can't remember why exactly but it is probably due to my own requirements:

I put a few things in my calendar for work and personal use and also maintain a list of tasks. Now being bit of a sieve head I need all of this information on my today screen to remind me of them each time I switch on my PPC. So thats my simple requirements.

I have tried calendar+ and it was great and then switched to task+ as I could have all of this on one screen. Currently I have Diary on trial and first impressions are good.

Diary is very simple to get up and running. Luckily for me the limited number of choices that you have to configure Diary suit my needs almost perfectly. There is always a downside to a heavily configurable product in that it takes ages to get it to how you want it and then by that time the trial period is nearly over. So if they have copied something then they copied the right options and dropped the extreme ones.

An important question that I have not looked into yet is how these various today plugins compare performance wise. Everyone seems to be going on about copying but at the end of the day is it better or not?

I have a Dell Axim X50V so its not slow but I notice that some today plugins are dreadfully slow and heavy. So far Dairy seems to work well with a clean interface that refreshes reliably and start time is not impaired.

Has anyone looked into the memory footprint of these things?

Ok enough for now as I must get on with some work - but to help those of us who just want the right piece of software could everyone stop ranting and just compare these things as requested in the topic, please!

Chris.

[Darius Wey]

not just another Spb vs. SBSH rant If it had been a copy (and I accept it appears it is not) then it's not ranting, just taking a stand against an apparently 'legalised' form of piracy that will harm developers and eventually the market as a whole in the long term....
Dom

Whatever may be the case, it's clear that there are strong feelings on this matter. For the past 48 hours, there has been a lot of heat raised. And for the benefit of the other readers out there, this is something I'd like to avoid. If anyone really wants to make an Spb/SBSH comment, there are plenty of threads out there for people to do so. There's no need to turn this into another one!

My point is, for once, let's keep things on topic. Talk about Spb Diary if you want. But talk about Diary being a copy of PocketBreeze (whether fact or fiction), and the tension will start to boil again (and nice, friendly discussions turn into nothing but arguments). This is something I'd like to avoid, and having the first two replies of yours do exactly what I suggested we avoid, has not helped at all. I've seen your other posts on the forums, and I believe if you wanted your message to be spread to the others, well then you've managed to do that without a hitch. In my opinion, I think it's best if it ends there. Please bear in mind that I'm not launching a personal attack here. I'm just drawing on general principles, and I believe creating another high tension thread is pointless.

[dommasters]

I've seen your other posts
I've seen yours too Darius and see you are a very big SPB fan. It's your thread and I respect your wishes so let's not mention Pocket Breeze again in this thread.
Dom

[SHC]

Oh Dear!
You are all making me feel guilty. :oops:
I like Spb's products and I like Diary.
It works very well for me, seems to use less memory resources even though it has a large footprint in main memory.
My 4700 is certainly a bit zippier now that I've stopped using PIToday.
Anyway I bought it and like it so there! :roll:

[Darius Wey]

I've seen yours too Darius and see you are a very big SPB fan.

FYI, I'm as much an Spb fan as I am an SBSH fan. I use many products from both companies as actively as each other, and if you read my other posts (here and on other sites), I'm sure you'll be able to pick up on that too. But anyway, thanks for agreeing to get back on topic. :)

[DaleReeck]

I posted this on Firstloox.org, but I think its appropriate for here too since this issue has come up in numerous places.

I have PocketBreeze too, it is a great product. But unless people are saying that Spb copied code, which is a very bad thing, then it seems implied that we are talking about the idea for the software - a Today plugin that sumarizes your schedule and that no one should copy that, or anyone else's idea for software. That's definitely something I am against as it goes against the very nature of a free society and competition.

You see so many companies trying to patent hardware ideas (like the RIM keyboard thing) that its getting crazy. What, a keyboard on a mobile device? Wow, I'm sure no one else other than RIM could have thought of that

Sarscasm aside, if we start seeing that with software too, then competition will be down the tubes and products will never get better. Look how advantageous for us users it is when Pocket Informant and Agenda Fusion keep trying to one-up each other. The features and quality skyrocket exponentially. The same can be said for PocketBreeze. The idea of a Today plugin that can sumarize your calendars and tasks has been kicked around for years. Unfortunately, not many have tried to put out product to actually do it. We should welcome more products for our PDA's, not try and keep selection limited.

You don't want to punish a product for being from a small company, but you also don't want to punish products from larger companies either.

[cmoore]

Nice thoughts DaleReeck and I agree, but are you really that incapable of reading the posts above?

This thread is supposed to be about Diary! How does your contribution help anyone decide if they should trial or buy this product instead of another?

This is not just supposed to be an attack against you but really is it that hard to stay on topic?

Been playing with Diary a bit more now:

Can't see the point of having the contacts on the today screen as it seems quicker and more powerful to simply hit the contacts button and get to where you want to be - its not like you need a reminder of who your contacts are. I guess alternatives to the built in contacts are even more powerful, so again see no reason to have it on the today screen - especially in such a limited way.

The tasks do appear nicely on the calendar screen. I have given a date to my tasks so that I can see everything on one page. This works nicely with an overdue tasks tree at the top which effectively becomes my tasks tree.

Also its nice to have the click action as double click if that makes sense because when my screen dims touching the screen anywhere just selects an item rather than opening or editing it. So this aspect works well for me too.

Chris.

[Clinton Fitch]

This has been interesting to watch and read over the last couple of days.

I pointed out in a post yesterday and in my review that if you want complete, balls-to-the-wall customization, you need to look at SBSH PocketBreeze. It has more customization that Spb Diary doesn't have.

That said, Spb Diary - in my opinion - has tried to hit those features which *most* people want to edit/customize/change.

Ultimately it comes down to how much you as an individual need and/or want to change.

Having reviewed both products and used both as extensively as possible (I've only had Diary a few weeks), I think both do an excellent job. It is hard to say which is best because - despite being similar in end result - the underlying products are different.

As for copying bits... sigh

Windows is a strikingly similiar of the Palo Alto project... As is Macintosh
Solaris has bits from SCO in it...
Mercedes-Benz builds the Chrysler Crossfire... Look inside it then go look inside a C-Class from Mercedes...

:lol:

[jgrnt1]

I'm not trying to stir up a hornets' nest, but from an ethical reporting viewpoint, is Spb a PPCT sponsor? Is that what [Affiliate] means at the end of the first front page post? I find it interesting that Diary got two front page posts in a day and a half.

[ctmagnus]

Not having tried Spb Diary and absolutely loving both SBSH's and Spb's products, I have one question:

Does Diary use it's own set of icons, or does it get the icons from whatever pim you're using?

[packetstorm]

This app will not install to a storage card. Isn't the next Windows Mobile OS going to require that apps be installed on secondary locations and not directly in RAM? I could be wrong though...

[Clinton Fitch]

This app will not install to a storage card. Isn't the next Windows Mobile OS going to require that apps be installed on secondary locations and not directly in RAM? I could be wrong though...

This application will install on a Storage Card - just tried it out myself before posting.

As for WM2005, I've not heard that fact. Given the number of rumors flying about on WM2005 these days, I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle too much on it. Wait until the bits are out there....

[TopDog]

Having tried both, but not purchased any, I think PB looks cooler, but I was a bit confused by the endless settings... it was just too much.

Diary was "easier" to set up, but I seriousely missed the oppertunety too adjust the size in landscape mode, like PB had.

Since PB crashed a couple of times on my Qtek s100, and Diary did not, I think I'll go with Diary in the end, but I'll run the full trial first.

[StarTide]

Not having tried Spb Diary and absolutely loving both SBSH's and Spb's products, I have one question:

Does Diary use it's own set of icons, or does it get the icons from whatever pim you're using?

Both. If you select AF or PI in Diary's settings it uses the icons from those apps. If you choose Pocket Outlook, then you can assign icons from SPB Diary and use those.

Startide

[Jonathan_w]

Not having tried Spb Diary and absolutely loving both SBSH's and Spb's products, I have one question:

Does Diary use it's own set of icons, or does it get the icons from whatever pim you're using?

Yes SPB Diary used it's own set of icons.
Don't you just love the organized icon page?
I mean compared to other applications that offer icon, it's great!

[stevehiner]

Using Diary for the very short period of time it's been out I'm || &lt;- that close to buying it. I just have one question.

Why doesn't it have an email tab showing me the last few email senders and subjects?

Then it'd be a no-brainer buy for me. As it is Diary, PocketPlus and OwnerInfoX take up basically my entire Today page. If I add the email count back in I get a scrollbar and that just makes the Today page look cruddy.

[Clinton Fitch]

Using Diary for the very short period of time it's been out I'm || &lt;- that close to buying it. I just have one question. Why doesn't it have an email tab showing me the last few email senders and subjects?

I specifically asked about this feature while I was doing the review and all I can say is it is on the radar for them. I'm not sure what that means exactly but it is something that will probably be seen in a future release.

[packetstorm]

This app will not install to a storage card. Isn't the next Windows Mobile OS going to require that apps be installed on secondary locations and not directly in RAM? I could be wrong though...

This application will install on a Storage Card - just tried it out myself before posting.

As for WM2005, I've not heard that fact. Given the number of rumors flying about on WM2005 these days, I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle too much on it. Wait until the bits are out there....

Ok well I something is definitely amiss then. After a reset, I just tried to install to my 4700's filestore and got the same error as when I tried to install to my SD card.

The error reads " Spb Diary Install - Spb Diary cannot be installed on a storage card. Please select "Main memory" in the Applications installer. Setup will quit now."

I am going to play around some more to see if I can get it to install properly. It may be something unique to the 4700. Maybe someone else with a 4700 could try to install to the file store and verify my findings.

[JMac]

This app will not install to a storage card. Isn't the next Windows Mobile OS going to require that apps be installed on secondary locations and not directly in RAM? I could be wrong though...
Even if appliations are capable of being installed on a storage card, if a developer is Microsot Certified they must use the Microsft directions which say that all Today screen plugins must be installed in main memory.

So always give a app a try from your storage card. You can always move it. :D

[Darius Wey]

Is that what [Affiliate] means at the end of the first front page post?

[Affiliate] is used only when we refer people to our software store. Our store is tied in with Handango, so we use [Affiliate] to tell people this. You'll find it used in all our SOFTWARE posts that link back to the PPCT/Handango store. It has nothing to do with Spb.

I find it interesting that Diary got two front page posts in a day and a half.

There's nothing funny about this. In some cases, when a product is released and many reviews appear on multiple websites soon after, we usually accompany the initial product announcement with another post on reviews, etc.

We've done this in the past for many popular applications - including, but not limited to PocketBreeze.

[pbg]

Since yesterday's announcement (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,39617) of Spb Diary, a number of reviews have started to surface - namely, at MTekk, (http://www.mtekk.com.au/browse/page1052.html) ClintonFitch.com (http://www.clintonfitch.com/reviews/spb/diary-1-0/default.asp) and Geekzone. (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?ContentId=4413)
There is also another review on Geekzone here (http://www.tekguru.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=37646)
Although Diary is packed with features, each reviewer appears to have a different view of the product.
I find it interesting that for some the lack of features for SPB Diary (in terms of options available to configure) is being touted as a plus, versus the many more configuration options available for Pocket Breeze. The message I hear is that the product with fewer options is easier to use. I disagree. That's like saying a hand saw is easier to use than a chain saw. I know which I would prefer to use to cut off one branch. I also know which I would prefer to use for cutting up the whole tree. :)

[Clinton Fitch]

Since yesterday's announcement (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,39617) of Spb Diary, a number of reviews have started to surface - namely, at MTekk, (http://www.mtekk.com.au/browse/page1052.html) ClintonFitch.com (http://www.clintonfitch.com/reviews/spb/diary-1-0/default.asp) and Geekzone. (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?ContentId=4413)
There is also another review on Geekzone here (http://www.tekguru.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=37646)
Although Diary is packed with features, each reviewer appears to have a different view of the product.
I find it interesting that for some the lack of features for SPB Diary (in terms of options available to configure) is being touted as a plus, versus the many more configuration options available for Pocket Breeze. The message I hear is that the product with fewer options is easier to use. I disagree. That's like saying a hand saw is easier to use than a chain saw. I know which I would prefer to use to cut off one branch. I also know which I would prefer to use for cutting up the whole tree. :)

It is a plus if you do not want to customize every single aspect of the application. There is a benefit to simplicity if that is what you need from the application.

[jgrnt1]

I can see both sides of the customization and options debate. I love to customize and tweak my apps. PocketBreeze is a great app for what it does, but it is also great for me because I can tweak it. However, we have to remember that we -- avid PPCT readers and PPC fanatics -- are not average users. Many people want to load software and have it work. If there is a significant learning curve, they will not use it. I have a couple of friends/co-workers who bought PPC's because they saw what I was doing with mine. However, neither has bothered to learn how to use even the built-in apps. One still hasn't bothered to sync it with her PC, even though we keep our work calendars on our laptops. I've offered to teach them how to use their toys, but it's too much trouble for them to make the time to learn.

I think the trick is to make the software as powerful and customizable as possible, but create default settings which work right out of the box, so the average PPC owner can use the software.

[jgrnt1]

Is that what [Affiliate] means at the end of the first front page post?

[Affiliate] is used only when we refer people to our software store. Our store is tied in with Handango, so we use [Affiliate] to tell people this. You'll find it used in all our SOFTWARE posts that link back to the PPCT/Handango store. It has nothing to do with Spb.

I find it interesting that Diary got two front page posts in a day and a half.

There's nothing funny about this. In some cases, when a product is released and many reviews appear on multiple websites soon after, we usually accompany the initial product announcement with another post on reviews, etc.

We've done this in the past for many popular applications - including, but not limited to PocketBreeze.

Darius, I stand corrected on both counts. My main question was not answered, though. Is Spb a sponsor of PPCT's? If not, then I have no problem with the article. If they are a sponsor, then journalistic ethics say you should mention it clearly in the article. The ads for Spb seem to indicate their is a financial relationship. They are served from sponsors.thoughtsmedia.com. If they are simply one of many advertisers on the site, then their probably aren't issues. However, if the financial relationship goes deeper, it needs to be mentioned. I ask because of Jason's prior relationship with Spb.

[Darius Wey]

Darius, I stand corrected on both counts. My main question was not answered, though. Is Spb a sponsor of PPCT's? If not, then I have no problem with the article. If they are a sponsor, then journalistic ethics say you should mention it clearly in the article. The ads for Spb seem to indicate their is a financial relationship. They are served from sponsors.thoughtsmedia.com. If they are simply one of many advertisers on the site, then their probably aren't issues. However, if the financial relationship goes deeper, it needs to be mentioned. I ask because of Jason's prior relationship with Spb.

If an article is sponsored by a certain company, then it would not appear in this section of the forum. All articles that are sponsored would appear in "SPONSORED ARTICLES" (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=37) and these are written by the company to highlight their product. The definition of sponsored articles is also stated on the forum index page. Each sponsored article has a clearly written statement which says the following: "The above article is a paid advertisement for COMPANY X and does not necessarily represent the views of Pocket PC Thoughts."

I understand your concerns about journalistic ethics, and quite simply, this is something we follow, since we clearly mention in a sponsored article that it is exactly that - sponsored. And back on the topic of ads... All the Spb ads you see are what they are. They are paid for by Spb, and this applies to any other company that advertises on the site. And to further this principle, it's exactly how any company advertises on any media network, whether it be on the TV, on the radio, on the web, in a newspaper, and so on. Finally, back on the topic of this post. This post about Spb Diary reviews is just another news post we'd make on any other day. It definitely is not sponsored, otherwise we would have stated that.

I apologise that I did not answer your question earlier. I seem to have missed that point as it was early in the morning when I had made that previous post. Hopefully, that clears things up for you.

[Jason Dunn]

I'm not trying to stir up a hornets' nest, but from an ethical reporting viewpoint, is Spb a PPCT sponsor? Is that what [Affiliate] means at the end of the first front page post?

When you see the word Affiliate, it means we're linking to the product from our Handango software store. That means that if you buy the product from that link, we get a small (very small) percentage of the sale. We try to use affiliate links whenever we link to software, although it doesn't influence whether or not we'll post on something: if it's interesting enough to share with our readers, we'll post on it, affiliate link or not.

I find it interesting that Diary got two front page posts in a day and a half.

If you look back through our archives for weeks when significant software has been released (Pocket Informant, Agenda Fusion, etc.) you'll see initial posts about the application being released, then usually on the same day you'll see posts about reviews of that application. The reason? Most of the big developers give Web sites like ours a heads up about the application being released, and often an advance copy to review. That allows reviewers to work on a review and have it ready to publish the same day the application is released. Most of the smaller developers haven't quite figured that out yet - they release whenever they feel like it, and it takes a couple of weeks for the reviewers to get the reviews written...

[Jason Dunn]

My main question was not answered, though. Is Spb a sponsor of PPCT's? If not, then I have no problem with the article. If they are a sponsor, then journalistic ethics say you should mention it clearly in the article. The ads for Spb seem to indicate their is a financial relationship. They are served from sponsors.thoughtsmedia.com. If they are simply one of many advertisers on the site, then their probably aren't issues. However, if the financial relationship goes deeper, it needs to be mentioned. I ask because of Jason's prior relationship with Spb.

Spb Software House pays for advertising in the same way that Pocket PC Techs, Pharos, and other companies to. Paying for ads does not equate to editorial coverage - if you look at the many applications/companies that we post on and compare that to the ads on the site, you'll find that less than 1% of the companies we post about support us by buying ads. Which, frankly, sucks. But that's my business problem, not yours. ;-)

Ads are served from sponsors.thoughtsmedia.com - we chose that domain name because some ad blockers will block anything with the word "ads" in it. People that use ad blockers hurt this site and I do everything I can to get around their ignorance. Sponsor is just our word for advertiser, nothing more than that.

Hope that helped clear things up a bit!

[pbg]

I can see both sides of the customization and options debate. I love to customize and tweak my apps. PocketBreeze is a great app for what it does, but it is also great for me because I can tweak it. However, we have to remember that we -- avid PPCT readers and PPC fanatics -- are not average users. Many people want to load software and have it work. If there is a significant learning curve, they will not use it.

I submit there is a difference between the learning curve to use a product "as loaded" and the learning curve to tweaking it. It seems to me that some of the comments are confusing the two.

[TopDog]

I've now run both SPB Diary and Pocket Breeze the full trials, and decided to purchase one of them... the decision is:

Pocket Breeze.

Why: It was a close race, but what caused me to go for PB is best landscape support (the possibility to adjust size in both modes) and the great Search Tool.

[JMac]

I've now run both SPB Diary and Pocket Breeze the full trials, and decided to purchase one of them... the decision is:

Pocket Breeze.

Why: It was a close race, but what caused me to go for PB is best landscape support (the possibility to adjust size in both modes) and the great Search Tool.

Good choice, in my opinion - of course I AM biased! :wink:

I'm surprised, though, about your opinion on the Search function. The Search Tool in PB has become a little outdated and is presently undergoing a complete re-write by the developer as we speak, and will be considerably more robust in the next release. So if you like it now, you'll LOVE it shortly!! :D

[Jason Lee]

Good choice, in my opinion - of course I AM biased! :wink:

I'm surprised, though, about your opinion on the Search function. The Search Tool in PB has become a little outdated and is presently undergoing a complete re-write by the developer as we speak, and will be considerably more robust in the next release. So if you like it now, you'll LOVE it shortly!! :D

Thought Amit was just gonna get rid of the search since the find in wm2003se does the exact same thing.
Of course i haven't hit the forums in a day or so. All of that may have changed. ;)