Returning to PPC (posted previously on wrong board)

[Cheetah]

I've had about 5 Palms and 2 PPCs.

Since my work moved to Exchange Outlook, I'm back to PPC.

One thing I notice in the PPC world is the variety of devices.

I would like to select a HP iPaq but not sure which one is recommended by the "experts".

Good battery life is very important to me
Small size is also important (don't like the biggest iPaqs) to me
Price is not a concern

Can anyone recommend which model would be best for me?

[KTamas]

Well...For good battery life, there is HX4700, but it is..uhm...big. For small size, but average battery life, go with 4150/55. For good battery life but bigger size go with rx3710/15.

[surur]

If money is no concern and you want a small pocketpc get a Loox 720.

Its the most feature rich device with a VGA screen. Why insist on HP? Just the name?

http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/vga-comparing-en.shtml

Surur

[pr0vider]

I never would have traded my Ipaq 2215 for a Dell X50v if the Ipaq could have been retrofitted with a VGA screen. It was (and still is) my favorite; small, versatile (SD and CF slots), and well built. At my age, the only reason I traded was because of diminishing eyesight; a slightly larger VGA screen helped matters immensely. :|

[Cheetah]

when I went to the store with the full intention of buying a new PPC, I was really shocked by the poor resolution of all but one model.

I'm used to my Palm T5 resolution of 320x480, but all the PPC units had only 240x320, except one iPaq which had really high res, but was huge (forgot the model, but the one with the touch pad).

I just couldn't bring myself to buy a PDA with such poor resolution.

Is HP introducing a high res PDA in the "non-brick" size category?

If not, is there another brand that has a small PDA with a high res screen?

[surur]

http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/image/fs/loox720/pic13.jpg

The Loox 720 is shorter, less wide and weighs less than the hp hx4700 that you had looked at. Its smaller than a t5 with way more features.

Read firstloox.org for a comparison of VGA pocketpc's. If you want the best ppc experience this is the one to buy.

Surur

[stevelam]

I'm used to my Palm T5 resolution of 320x480, but all the PPC units had only 240x320, except one iPaq which had really high res, but was huge (forgot the model, but the one with the touch pad).


That'll be the hx4700/4705 then.

[abarry]

It really depends on what you need the PDA for.

Here're the advantages I see with the iPaq 4700:

1. It has the biggest screen (4") and yes, size does matter, even a difference of 0.3" (vs. 3.7" in Loox and Axim). It does make this PDA bigger, but it is sleek and thin, and at 6.6 oz, not 'heavy'.

2. This bigger screen makes the pictures look better, as does the facade of the PDA, which looks more like a PMC (Pocket Media Center) than a PDA. For me this is a welcome optical illusion.

3. The 4" does make a difference when surfing the internet, as well. Of course I am comparing it with the 3.5" screen of 2215, which wasn't of VGA resolution, as well.

4. I am able to use the HP's BT stereo headphones ($99 from www.hpshopping.com) for my MP3s. I have purchased a 4GB Hitachi microdrive ($152 from www.provantage.com), and I now have a iPod Mini for 150 bucks and I can listen to it without wires! Yes there are other stereo BT headphones, like the Blutake, but they are rather unwieldy.

5. The 128MB ROM gives me an 80MB worth of file storage capacity. I now have more programs loaded here, for faster execution, rather than in my SD card.

6. There is a slew of built in software like the equalizer, pocket informant (a great PIM, upgradable at a special HP price), iPaq backup (that you can upgrade at a special price too at Sprite Software), and the HP image viewer.

7. The battery in 4700 is rated at 1800 mAH, which is quite better than comparable PDAs.


What other PDAs (Axim, MyPal, Loox) have that my 4700 should:

1. The 64MB of RAM is a joke. Though it officially has 55MB of 'user available' memory, in reality, after all is said (loaded) and done, it is barely 31MB. I discovered that some programs, like the MSReader, have to be loaded in RAM to work. I am able to get 25MB for programs, after sliding the pointer and leaving only 6MB for 'storage. It should have been at least 128MB.

2. Why the f*** it doesn't have WMP10?

3. THe IrDa is at the bottom rather than on the top or the top-side of the PDA. I don't know who still uses it, except, perhaps, as a remote for TV, DVD, etc.


Other things I wish they (or even other PDA makers) did:

1. The stylus could have been longer. This stylus is the same length as the one in iPaq2215, and cramps my hands. Another half inch could probably have been added. Also, I do not know why they do not make the stylus that is triangular in cross section rather than round. I miss the one in Psion 5mx; it was longer as well. I use that with my PDA.

2. There is no Nevo (remote control software) like the 2215.


I hope this helps. I got mine from www.mobileplanet.com for $514 a week ago.

Atul

[stevelam]

2. There is no Nevo (remote control software) like the 2215.


Atul

This is because it dosent have CIR

[abarry]

2. There is no Nevo (remote control software) like the 2215.


Atul

This is because it dosent have CIR

What's CIR?

Thanks

Atul

[stevelam]

2. There is no Nevo (remote control software) like the 2215.


Atul

This is because it dosent have CIR

What's CIR?

Thanks

Atul

Consumer Infra-red (it is basically infrared with a mush longer range)

[abarry]

Interesting!

I thought the 4700 series had an improved IrDa.

Atul

[stevelam]

Interesting!

I thought the 4700 series had an improved IrDa.

Atul

Yeh but its differant (dont ask me how) i think it has a much shorter range

[abarry]

Interesting!

I thought the 4700 series had an improved IrDa.

Atul

Yeh but its differant (dont ask me how) i think it has a much shorter range

No wonder they put the IrDa on the PDAs behind since it can't be used as a remote anyway!

I was wondering about it, but now I know.

Atul.

[Menneisyys]

It really depends on what you need the PDA for.

Here're the advantages I see with the iPaq 4700:

1. It has the biggest screen (4") and yes, size does matter, even a difference of 0.3" (vs. 3.7" in Loox and Axim). It does make this PDA bigger, but it is sleek and thin, and at 6.6 oz, not 'heavy'.

2. This bigger screen makes the pictures look better, as does the facade of the PDA, which looks more like a PMC (Pocket Media Center) than a PDA. For me this is a welcome optical illusion.

3. The 4" does make a difference when surfing the internet, as well. Of course I am comparing it with the 3.5" screen of 2215, which wasn't of VGA resolution, as well.

Also, its landscape visibility is clearly better than that of the other VGA models (except for the Loox, which has essentially the same screen, with slightly smaller dots). Check out the problems caused by this at http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35630 .

Also, in the same thread, there're tons of comparative screenshots of the hx4700 to other devices. They are really worth a glance.


5. The 128MB ROM gives me an 80MB worth of file storage capacity. I now have more programs loaded here, for faster execution, rather than in my SD card.

Please note that the iPAQ Store is by far the slowest to write to. Actually, it's much slower than any current SD card (even the very bad Kingston SD cards are better). Therefore, you shouldn't put any app that stores its internal databases/cache in one of its subdirectories. A lot of apps are like so and some are greatly affected by the speed of the medium they're installed to. Check out for example my remarks and benchmarks of NetFront 3.1 (which, unlike version 3.2, still stores its cache in a subdir - see http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39674 on the difference between the two versions) at http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36376 . Please note that the iPAQ Store in the hx4700 is about as slow and sluggish as in the Pocket Loox 720 used for comparative benchmarks.

7. The battery in 4700 is rated at 1800 mAH, which is quite better than comparable PDAs.

Compared to the Axim and the Asus A730w, it's indeed much better. Compared to the Pocket Loox 720, it's only a bit better. Also see http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/vga-comparing-en.shtml for additional battery benchmarks, with extended batteries too.

What other PDAs (Axim, MyPal, Loox) have that my 4700 should:

1. The 64MB of RAM is a joke. Though it officially has 55MB of 'user available' memory, in reality, after all is said (loaded) and done, it is barely 31MB.

64M is indeed not much. However, you can live with it if you are ready for some manual hacking and program relocation. Check out for example http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=3705 and http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=3752 on this.

I discovered that some programs, like the MSReader, have to be loaded in RAM to work.

Fortunately, most of it can be relocated to elsewhere. Check out http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=760856 on this.


2. Why the f*** it doesn't have WMP10?

The new ROM upgrade will have it. See http://pocketpcmag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15490 for more info.

3. THe IrDa is at the bottom rather than on the top or the top-side of the PDA. I don't know who still uses it, except, perhaps, as a remote for TV, DVD, etc.

It isn't CIR so it's not as useful as a generic remote controller than the one in, say, the rx3715, the iPAQ 5450/2210/39xx or the Pocket Loox 720.

1. The stylus could have been longer. This stylus is the same length as the one in iPaq2215, and cramps my hands. Another half inch could probably have been added. Also, I do not know why they do not make the stylus that is triangular in cross section rather than round. I miss the one in Psion 5mx; it was longer as well. I use that with my PDA.

I'd say hx4700 users are still more lucky than, say, Dell Axim X5 or Pocket Loox 720 users. I find the hx4700 stylus pretty good compared to the stylus of the two devices I've mentioned.

2. There is no Nevo (remote control software) like the 2215.

Because it has no CIR. You can, however, buy a hardware-based CIR unit: UltraMote ( http://www.ultramote.com/ ) and Total Remote ( http://www.griffintechnology.com/software/software_totalremote.html ).

[abarry]

Thank you for your insightful dissection of my message. I did learn a lot. I do have a few comments and questions:

Also, its landscape visibility is clearly better than that of the other VGA models (except for the Loox, which has essentially the same screen, with slightly smaller dots). Check out the problems caused by this at http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35630.

Also, in the same thread, there're tons of comparative screenshots of the hx4700 to other devices. They are really worth a glance.

I agree with you that PL720 and hx4700 look similar. I do think, however, that the extra 0.4" does make a difference as does the 'tablet style' look of the hx4700: No buttons on one end (in the landscape mode) to distract you. It does look like a PMC.



Please note that the iPAQ Store is by far the slowest to write to. Actually, it's much slower than any current SD card (even the very bad Kingston SD cards are better). Therefore, you shouldn't put any app that stores its internal databases/cache in one of its subdirectories. A lot of apps are like so and some are greatly affected by the speed of the medium they're installed to.

Interesting. Why then there is so much ROM? If iPaq store is worthless, and I store programs on an SD card, what use can I make of it? It would not help me like RAM if I am running multiple programs or loading a lot of pictures, would it?


Please note that the iPAQ Store in the hx4700 is about as slow and sluggish as in the Pocket Loox 720 used for comparative benchmarks.

Hmm. If ROM storage is bad in both of these top end machines, what can or should we use it for?



64M is indeed not much. However, you can live with it if you are ready for some manual hacking and program relocation. Check out for example http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=3705 and http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=3752 on this.

That was a great tutorial.


Fortunately, most of it can be relocated to elsewhere. Check out http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=760856 on this.

I tried to put the MS Reader on iPaq File Store, and the SD Card, but it would not execute. When I put it in the Main Memory, it worked fine. I would rather have it on my File Store, so if I change SD Cards, I still have the Reader on my machine.



It isn't CIR so it's not as useful as a generic remote controller than the one in, say, the rx3715, the iPAQ 5450/2210/39xx or the Pocket Loox 720.

What is the benefit of the IrDa on hx4700? I really dont need a remote since I use the Logitech Harmony Remote, but just for the heck of it; I just need to be ABLE to do it!



Because it has no CIR. You can, however, buy a hardware-based CIR unit: UltraMote ( http://www.ultramote.com/ ) and Total Remote ( http://www.griffintechnology.com/software/software_totalremote.html ).

The Ultramote requires I put their CF card, which is not desirable by me. I could not tell about hte Total Remote by Griffin whether I have to use a CF card or not. If not, how come I can use this software if my hx4700 doesn't have a CIR?


Now a few questions I want to ask:

1. There is a service (PPCTechs) that will upgrade my RAM from 64 to 128MB for $199 + postage. Is is worth it?

2. I have a Hitachi 4GB microdrive. Does it eat up my battery even when not spinning and sitting docked in my CF slot?

3. Is there any MP3 player other than WMP you recommend that will use less battery?

4. If I am using my PDA as an MP3 also, it is worthwhile to spend money on the extended 4000mAh battery?

5. Is there any browser program you recommend besides the sucky IE? Is it useful to get NetFront v3.1 for Pocket PC 2003 with JV-Lite2 vs. the NetFront v3.1 for Pocket PC 2003 (without JV-Lite2). Or any other you suggest? What about V-Mobile's Network Browser v1.2 for Pocket PC?

6. I have a lot of programs stored in my iPaq File Store. Reading your posts and those by others, I think I should move my eWallet and Listpro out of there to my SD Card. The other programs there are what I'd like to have on the machine all the time (Registry Mechanic, Audible player, Antivirus, Sprite Backup, AppForge Booster, Mobipocket etc) and some medical books from Skyscape.com. Do you think I should move them out too? Since the read speed is fast, as long as I am not 'writing' to a program, I think these should be OK. What do you think?

7. It seems that the databases of ListPro and eWallet have to be stored in RAM to sync with the PC during ActiveSync. Does ROM sync also? In that case I can store these databases in ROM.

8. I currently have ActiveSync 3.7.1. MS now has the version 3.8 available but I have heard a lot of horror stories about it on the forums. Do you think there is an advantage to get the 3.8?

9. I have created a 'My Documents' folder in my SD Card and I store all my photos in 'My Pictures' folder I created there. Should I move it to File Store instead?

10. There are still a lot of programs in my RAM (Program File folder under "My Device" in the File Explorer, which I think is RAM), like Dockware. How to get rid of these and store them elsewhere. What is the minimum storage that is essential to be stored in RAM I can get by?

11. I have stopped syncing the Outlook Inbox. Is there any way to get rid of that account?

12. I am thinking of getting the WebIS email program. Will it become the default program for my messaging?

Thanks again for your help. I have learnt so much in the last few hours. I think you should have a separate forum for your tutorials.

Atul

[Menneisyys]

Thank you for your insightful dissection of my message. I did learn a lot. I do have a few comments and questions:

Also, its landscape visibility is clearly better than that of the other VGA models (except for the Loox, which has essentially the same screen, with slightly smaller dots). Check out the problems caused by this at http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35630.

Also, in the same thread, there're tons of comparative screenshots of the hx4700 to other devices. They are really worth a glance.

I agree with you that PL720 and hx4700 look similar. I do think, however, that the extra 0.4" does make a difference

It certainly does. If the hx4700 had USB host (very important for me), jog dial, 128M RAM and CIR, then, I would have gone for it because of the screen size difference. Too bad HP left out a LOT of goodies from the hx4700...


Please note that the iPAQ Store is by far the slowest to write to. Actually, it's much slower than any current SD card (even the very bad Kingston SD cards are better). Therefore, you shouldn't put any app that stores its internal databases/cache in one of its subdirectories. A lot of apps are like so and some are greatly affected by the speed of the medium they're installed to.

Interesting. Why then there is so much ROM? If iPaq store is worthless, and I store programs on an SD card, what use can I make of it? It would not help me like RAM if I am running multiple programs or loading a lot of pictures, would it?


Please note "by far the slowest to write to". With most porgrams, you won't notice the difference. With some of them (say, NetFront 3.1, which stores its default databases in one of its subdirs; or, SimpleSMS), you will. As far as NetFront (or, for that matter, PIE) and the cache is concerned, I recommend the benchmarks at http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36376 (and, as far as the cache relocation in NF is concerned, http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39674 ).


Please note that the iPAQ Store in the hx4700 is about as slow and sluggish as in the Pocket Loox 720 used for comparative benchmarks.

Hmm. If ROM storage is bad in both of these top end machines, what can or should we use it for?

For reading / running programs from, it's perfectly OK.

64M is indeed not much. However, you can live with it if you are ready for some manual hacking and program relocation. Check out for example http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=3705 and http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=3752 on this.

That was a great tutorial.


Thanks :)


Fortunately, most of it can be relocated to elsewhere. Check out http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=760856 on this.

I tried to put the MS Reader on iPaq File Store, and the SD Card, but it would not execute. When I put it in the Main Memory, it worked fine. I would rather have it on my File Store, so if I change SD Cards, I still have the Reader on my machine.

You need to create the link to reader.exe manually if you install it to anywhere else than the main memory. This is why it didn't execute.


It isn't CIR so it's not as useful as a generic remote controller than the one in, say, the rx3715, the iPAQ 5450/2210/39xx or the Pocket Loox 720.

What is the benefit of the IrDa on hx4700? I really dont need a remote since I use the Logitech Harmony Remote, but just for the heck of it; I just need to be ABLE to do it!

It's Fast IR (but not CIR). This means that it'll communicate with other, Fast IR-enabled devices much faster via infrared. This may happen, however, much less often than the need for a real CIR device.


Because it has no CIR. You can, however, buy a hardware-based CIR unit: UltraMote ( http://www.ultramote.com/ ) and Total Remote ( http://www.griffintechnology.com/software/software_totalremote.html ).

The Ultramote requires I put their CF card, which is not desirable by me. I could not tell about hte Total Remote by Griffin whether I have to use a CF card or not. If not, how come I can use this software if my hx4700 doesn't have a CIR?


Because it uses a dongle you need to put in the headphone socket.


Now a few questions I want to ask:

1. There is a service (PPCTechs) that will upgrade my RAM from 64 to 128MB for $199 + postage. Is is worth it?


Well, opinions greatly differ on this. Read for example http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117337 on the subject.


2. I have a Hitachi 4GB microdrive. Does it eat up my battery even when not spinning and sitting docked in my CF slot?


Nope. If it is not actively used (read from/written to), then, it won't take (almost) any power, as is the case with flash ROM memory cards.


3. Is there any MP3 player other than WMP you recommend that will use less battery?


Yes. According to my benchmarks (see for example my article linked from http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,37799 or from http://www.pocketpcmag.com/newsl_jkwg/JKWG_02-22-05.htm ), BetaPlayer consumes the least battery power. The difference isn't much, however - I'd say you will only save 20-30 minutes of battery life at most by switching to Beta from WMP.

Notice that there're (a lot of?) media players that consume much more batery power than either Beta or WMP. An example of these apps is VITO Technology's SoundExplorer 2005 (http://vitotechnology.com/products/product_27.html) - using it instead of WMP/Beta to play MP3's with blank screen all the time can shorten your battery life with hours!

4. If I am using my PDA as an MP3 also, it is worthwhile to spend money on the extended 4000mAh battery?

I don't think so, because of size/weight considerations. With one charge, the hx4700 can play mp3's for about 12 hours 40 minutes (check out http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/vga-comparing-en.shtml on the exact numbers and (comparative) tests) with its standard batteries, which is pretty impressive IMHO.


5. Is there any browser program you recommend besides the sucky IE? Is it useful to get NetFront v3.1 for Pocket PC 2003 with JV-Lite2 vs. the NetFront v3.1 for Pocket PC 2003 (without JV-Lite2). Or any other you suggest?


Read my current (I've written it yesterday, packed with a lot of NF 3.2 info etc.) browser roundup at, say, http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118021 . Unfortunately, all browsers (and, as far as PIE is concerned, all PIE plug-ins) have their problems - there is no clear winner.


6. I have a lot of programs stored in my iPaq File Store. Reading your posts and those by others, I think I should move my eWallet and Listpro out of there to my SD Card. The other programs there are what I'd like to have on the machine all the time (Registry Mechanic, Audible player, Antivirus, Sprite Backup, AppForge Booster, Mobipocket etc) and some medical books from Skyscape.com. Do you think I should move them out too? Since the read speed is fast, as long as I am not 'writing' to a program, I think these should be OK. What do you think?


You should install/hack as many programs on external cards/in the iPAQ Store as possible. This will, sometimes, require a bit of manual work, as with, for example, hacking Spb Pocket Plus into the iPAQ Store; but, it's certainly worth it because of the reduced main memory consumption.


7. It seems that the databases of ListPro and eWallet have to be stored in RAM to sync with the PC during ActiveSync. Does ROM sync also? In that case I can store these databases in ROM.


Haven't checked yet; will check them ASAP (and, hopefully, will also come up with a genuine Menneisyys hack ;) )


9. I have created a 'My Documents' folder in my SD Card and I store all my photos in 'My Pictures' folder I created there. Should I move it to File Store instead?


You can - the access/read speed of the File Store isn't worse than that of the SD card, so, if you have enough free space in iPAQ Store, just move your stuff there. BTW, did you read the preview of my review of image viewers (http://menneisyys.freeweb.hu/PICVIEWERS)? You may find it useful.


10. There are still a lot of programs in my RAM (Program File folder under "My Device" in the File Explorer, which I think is RAM), like Dockware. How to get rid of these and store them elsewhere. What is the minimum storage that is essential to be stored in RAM I can get by?


Read the tutorials I've linked above on program relocation.


11. I have stopped syncing the Outlook Inbox. Is there any way to get rid of that account?


Nope, it can't be deleted from your Messaging app, unlike with the POP3/IMAP accounts you add. You can only delete the messages from there (if you have any). To do this, invoke the on-screen keyboard while you're in the Outlook account in Messaging, click Ctrl, and then, click A. Then, just delete all your now-selected mail.


12. I am thinking of getting the WebIS email program. Will it become the default program for my messaging?


Yes, it checks for this upon start.


Thanks again for your help. I have learnt so much in the last few hours. I think you should have a separate forum for your tutorials.

Thanks. I'm in the process of linking them from my PDA homepage at http://menneisyys.freeweb.hu . I haven't linked all my articles/posts of interest as yet (I have posted over 15 000 posts on various PPC boards, so, linking all my posts that have some relevant info is quite a daunting task), but I'm trying to, though.