Who Wants a Pepper Pad? Not Me.

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pepper.com/products/pepper.html' target='_blank'>http://www.pepper.com/products/pepper.html</a><br /><br /></div><i>"If you could design the perfect portable device to wirelessly access your favorite broadband Internet services and digital media, what would it look like? Portable and lightweight? Definitely. Able to instantly connect you to all your favorite activities-e-mailing, IM, Web browsing, listening to music, watching videos, sharing photos and more? Absolutely. How about easy to use, totally low maintenance and ready to travel with you-whether to the couch, the backyard or even the local coffee shop? Check. That device is here. The Pepper pad represents an entirely new category of wireless device-bigger and more powerful than a PDA or mobile phone, but smaller, lighter and far less complex (and a lot more fun) than a laptop."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050331-PepperPad.jpg" /><br /><br />Yes, the Pepper Pad has some <a href="http://www.pepper.com/products/pepper.html">nice specifications</a> (8.4" touchscreen, Intel PXA270 (624MHz) processor, 20GB HDD, QWERTY keyboard, SD/MMC slot, 802.11b and Bluetooth), but I definitely wouldn't call it compact, nor would I be substituting my Pocket PC for this. If anything, I'd use it as a complement, but then that's what my laptop is for, right? Anyone liking this $949, all-in-one device?

[Kowalski]

very interesting device.
it would be super design if the sides would fould on the screen,
and it would be a killer device if it would run windows ce .net

[Stephen Beesley]

Just too damn big for my taste - i would rather have a full on tablet PC if I was going for something that size.

It really seems to be a case of not one thi or another - neither the "pocketability" of a PPC or the power of a Tablet.

[surur]

I love this device! I could not justify paying $2000 for a tablet pc, and having paid that much, I would be extremely careful with it. This device is ideal for some-one who has a computer at home already, but don't want to find the space for another one, and don't want a laptop lying around. I can easily imagine giving this to my child to use without too much worries, or use myself while they use the main desktop. I could easily surf from the couch with it. I would not lug it around, but can easily see myself leaving it on a shelf or coffee table, like with a normal remote control.

Its a good concept at a reasonable price (for what you get). Pity the OS, but at least this means when this device is obsoleted (as they invariable become) you could look around in the open source community for further support.

If it makes it to the UK at a reasonable price (£450-500) I would certainly consider buying it.

Surur

[Stephen Beesley]

I love this device!

...

If it makes it to the UK at a reasonable price (£450-500) I would certainly consider buying it. Surur


You make some very good points -particularly the idea of using it as a mobile web browser for around the house.

I guess if the price was right I could see myself finding this useful after all!

[Daniel Webb]

This is just the form factor I'm waiting for.

I use a laptop all day at work and take it home with me, but the thought of getting it out of its case, booting it up and balancing it on my knee is often a barrier to doing any wireless browsing at home.

A pocketPC is just too small to use in this scenario.

What I'm waiting for is basically a PocketPC with a 1024x768 screen - maybe stretching the pocket angle a bit...

This comes close.

Oh and the price has to be &lt; £300

[Darius Wey]

I'm not sure if any of you have noticed, but if you head over to the specifications page, you'll see this at the bottom:

Mozilla-based browser, making the Pepper pad both virus- and hacker-resistant.

Mozilla is great but they're far from hole-proof. I can imagine some customers getting pretty angry at Pepper if something detrimental were to happen to their data while they were online.

[surur]

Oh and the price has to be &lt; £300

Keep wishing :) This has a bigger screen with a higher resolution than any pocketpc. It has a 20 gig hard drive. It has dual wireless and consumer infra-red. It even has a keyboard of sorts.

Unless there is some subsidized scheme this is going to cost more than any high end pocketpc. I would say more than a Loox 720, but cheaper than the cheapest laptop (which is being sold by pcworld for £450, isnt it?)

Surur

[bjornkeizers]

I was thinking about devices like this the other day. See, I have a home network with WiFi laptop, a pocket PC (rx3715) and a Clie TH55. Now, I like my PPC, but the screen is just too small and limited in terms of resolution to be of any real use. My Clie has a nicer screen, but it's limited in terms of flash and things like that.

What I really want is a big touchscreen, at least 800x600 resolution, a good webbrowser with Flash and things like that, and *that's it*. A dumb terminal, only capable of browsing the net through my home router, maybe play some media from my other computers.. nothing more. If they made something like that for around 500 euros, I'd buy two in a heartbeat.

[tigerhunter]

Looks like a fun, killer device. SVGA, touch screen, Ruggerized, water resistant, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Linux based...

I only wonder why it has 802.11b and not 802.11g...

[phanprod]

I'm not sure if any of you have noticed, but if you head over to the specifications page, you'll see this at the bottom:

Mozilla-based browser, making the Pepper pad both virus- and hacker-resistant.

Mozilla is great but they're far from hole-proof. I can imagine some customers getting pretty angry at Pepper if something detrimental were to happen to their data while they were online.

They don't state that it's hacker-proof, just resistant.

[mcsouth]

What I really want is a big touchscreen, at least 800x600 resolution, a good webbrowser with Flash and things like that, and *that's it*. A dumb terminal, only capable of browsing the net through my home router, maybe play some media from my other computers.. nothing more. If they made something like that for around 500 euros, I'd buy two in a heartbeat.

Didn't MS try something like this a few years ago? I seem to remember a MS initiative where you would have something the form factor of a small tablet that would plug into a monitor stand to recharge, and be part of a desktop/fixed station PC, but you could undock the "tablet" and wander around the house, still using basic PC functions. I don't remember all of the specifics, other than it never took off, but suspect that the device linked back to the base station, kind of as a dumb terminal, not a full fledged PC.

I would be a fan of this kind of device for web browsing, basic games, media playback from the network, etc, but again, like others have said, only if the price was right. I'm not sure it would really need a big hard drive in it, if the intent would be to stream from your media server on your home network. If the idea is to roam away from your network, then I guess onboard storage would need to be part of the equation...

[Darius Wey]

They don't state that it's hacker-proof, just resistant.

True, but it's still a pretty major thing to claim. I'm not against open-source (heck, I use Firefox and Thunderbird too). All I'm saying is that they should perhaps re-evaluate what they've said, especially since they're marketing a product here.

[Underwater Mike]

Does this thing have a full Linux OS, or it it some embbed/closed system? I couldn't tell from the site. If it was the full deal, I could see pairing it with a folding BT keyboard and using it that way.

But I'm still a fanatic for slots, and I'd think that home users might want to put cards for digicams into this thing. How would you do that? Also, no USB2?

[Rod3]

Looks like it might get a following, if all you guys are any judge. But I can't see any need for it at all, and I'm a gadget freak. I have a Tablet and one of those Sony U70 things, and find I don't use either very much. There are just so many computers a body can use! I spend lots more time with my PPC.

[Underwater Mike]

Looks like it might get a following, if all you guys are any judge. But I can't see any need for it at all, and I'm a gadget freak. I have a Tablet and one of those Sony U70 things, and find I don't use either very much. There are just so many computers a body can use! I spend lots more time with my PPC.

I know a worthy cause to which you can donate the U70! :wink:

[jngold_me]

Didn't MS try something like this a few years ago? I seem to remember a MS initiative where you would have something the form factor of a small tablet that would plug into a monitor stand to recharge, and be part of a desktop/fixed station PC, but you could undock the "tablet" and wander around the house, still using basic PC functions. I don't remember all of the specifics, other than it never took off, but suspect that the device linked back to the base station, kind of as a dumb terminal, not a full fledged PC.

Yep, it was called the "Smart Display". I should know, I had one. It was riddled with problems and was very unreliable. Upon first glance, this "Pepper" whoziwhats seems like the same thing. :roll:

[surur]

Didn't MS try something like this a few years ago? I seem to remember a MS initiative where you would have something the form factor of a small tablet that would plug into a monitor stand to recharge, and be part of a desktop/fixed station PC, but you could undock the "tablet" and wander around the house, still using basic PC functions. I don't remember all of the specifics, other than it never took off, but suspect that the device linked back to the base station, kind of as a dumb terminal, not a full fledged PC.

Yep, it was called the "Smart Display". I should know, I had one. It was riddled with problems and was very unreliable. Upon first glance, this "Pepper" whoziwhats seems like the same thing. :roll:

Not quite, this is an independent computer, like a laptop or tablet pc, with some sync options. As most people use computers for the Internet these days a web pad becomes more and more useful. In addition this can be used independently for video and music. If they execute it well it could be quite successful.

Surur

[powder2000]

Tried and failed before. These things are never going to sell, especially when they cost more than the cheapest of laptops. Hell, I could even get a sweet iBook for this price.

[bikeman]

This does have some good features, but the price is too high, and it is based on older technology. It uses an embedded version of Linux, based on an older Linux kernel. Although they have extended the capabilities of the 2.4 kernel, they have not yet released an updated version based on the 2.6 or later kernel, even though they had indicated that they would last year. That may be part of the reason why there is no 802.11g - the older versions of Linux just did not play well with g. I have no idea if/when OS upgrades would be available, or if you could even install a regular Linux distro. Would they even support a touch screen? Older tech is also shown in the non-2.0 USB.

As for hacker resistance, a Mozilla-based (note that it is their own version, not a standard Mozilla offering) browser is a help, as is the Linux OS, and some of their enhancements to the kernel (see the MontaVista site) to make it even more secure. Not hacker-proof as noted, but still more resistant out of the box than a patched XP box with Internet Explorer (unless a real firewall and virus protection is added).

Although I like the form factor for toddling about the house, for that price you can get better tech.

[Stephen Beesley]

I have a Tablet and one of those Sony U70 things...

Now with one of these I would be in mobile computing heaven!

[dbman]

I've been intrigued with this device since I heard about it.

One of the major problems with any computer is its inability to play well with children. Having a device like this with a real touch screen eliminates most of the barriers and opens the door to interactive learning experiences with the very young.

Imaging visiting SesemeStreet.com with a device like this and a grandchild in your lap! No more mice, no keyboards and no touchpads. The touch screen can open a whole new world to them. Personally, I would like to see every laptop and TablePC include a real finger operated touch screen.

If you doubt the value of such an innovation, imagine where the PocketPC or a Palm PDA would be now had they lacked the touchscreen! Even if you think this device is not for you, perhaps it might be right for your kids.

[Trunkmonkey]

You make some very good points -particularly the idea of using it as a mobile web browser for around the house.
That is the Pepper wireless pad's primary function—mobile Web browser and media player. There's also a built-in IR transceiver to turn it into a multi-function remote control.

I only wonder why it has 802.11b and not 802.11g...
Limited 802.11g support for Linux/ARM. Ditto for USB 1.1 instead of USB 2.0. Once Linux/ARM extends reliable support it will be rolled in.

Does this thing have a full Linux OS, or it it some embbed/closed system? I couldn't tell from the site. If it was the full deal, I could see pairing it with a folding BT keyboard and using it that way.

...

Also, no USB2?
Lightly censored because uname wasn't run on a recent build: :twisted: And see above comment about USB 2.0.

[email protected]:~# echo $SHELL
/bin/bash
[email protected]:~# uname -a
Linux armbuild.lex.pepper.com XXXXX #XXXXX Fri Feb 25 17:39:25 EST 2005 armv5tel XXXXX
[email protected]:~# netstat -tl
Active Internet connections (only servers)
Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address State
tcp 0 0 *:x11 *:* LISTEN
tcp 0 0 *:ssh *:* LISTEN


Not hacker-proof as noted, but still more resistant out of the box than a patched XP box with Internet Explorer (unless a real firewall and virus protection is added).
You hit the nail on the head.

And, although not supported, we got Windows CE to boot our prototype board about a year and a half ago. The hard drive is user-accessible and easily removable specifically for hackers who want to load their own OS.

[surur]

Do you work there? Have they made many units? Has it been reviewed by anyone on the internet?

I find this device very appealing, especially as I a have a young child. These computers can not be tough enough. Do you think it will make it to the UK?

The main problem you will have to face is whether anyone is willing to pay $900 for just the internet on the couch.

Surur

[Trunkmonkey]

Do you work there? Have they made many units? Has it been reviewed by anyone on the internet?
Since I'm only a systems administrator and engineer at Pepper Computer I can't let out any specifics on production yet. I can say that we do have a press page (http://www.pepper.com/press/coverage.html) with links to third party reviews and overviews, and information about availablility is also on the Web site.

I find this device very appealing, especially as I a have a young child. These computers can not be tough enough. Do you think it will make it to the UK?
I can't confirm when/if it will be available in the UK. There are aspects about testing, compliance, etc. that I'm out of the loop on. But the systems are quite rugged. A hobby of mine is rally racing and ice racing (http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/) and I plan on mounting a Pepper wireless pad for OBD-II diagnostics and telemetry on the dashboard next to the rally computer. That statement in and of itself proves how hackable the Pepper wireless pad is. :devilboy:

Edit: Also, many of the employees have brought Pepper wireless pad prototypes home for their kids to use. No problems yet except for lots of greasy fingerprints on the screen! :)

The main problem you will have to face is whether anyone is willing to pay $900 for just the internet on the couch.
Again, since I'm not management, I'm not authorized to comment on specifics about the price. But I can make a generalization that the market has shown that the first generation of any new form factor device is usually the most expensive. :)

Edit: Also, these things are much more than just Internet on the couch. They're full portable media players in addition to having Web and e-mail capability. Fullscreen movie playback. Fullscreen slideshow for photo galleries (portable photo frame). Full consumer high-power IR to turn it into a trainable universal remote control. USB and SD for control of external devices (GPS, digital camera, etc.).

Our initial offering is cool, but the open source hacking on these units will explode once they're floating around in the wild.

[adambravo]

Frankly, the Viewsonic Airpanel I've got works better--there's no built in storage, but it provides direct wireless access to my desktop PC upstairs. Anything I've got running there will run on the Airpanel, and it's got a nice 800x600 display. Only thing you need is XP Pro on your base machine.

Adam

[surur]

The main problem you will have to face is whether anyone is willing to pay $900 for just the internet on the couch.

Edit: Also, these things are much more than just Internet on the couch. They're full portable media players in addition to having Web and e-mail capability. Fullscreen movie playback. Fullscreen slideshow for photo galleries (portable photo frame). Full consumer high-power IR to turn it into a trainable universal remote control. USB and SD for control of external devices (GPS, digital camera, etc.).

In theory yes, in practice its too big to use on the street, and not business looking enough to use in the office. I think its ideally suited for home use (even more specifically couch use). It can be used in other contexts, but in those places there are better solutions e.g. cheap laptops or PDA's.

Surur

[surur]

Frankly, the Viewsonic Airpanel I've got works better--there's no built in storage, but it provides direct wireless access to my desktop PC upstairs. Anything I've got running there will run on the Airpanel, and it's got a nice 800x600 display. Only thing you need is XP Pro on your base machine.

Adam

But your desktop has to be on all the time. Also isn't it the case that when you are using the Air panel no one else can use your desktop at the same time? It ends up just being a portable screen, not a separate usable computer.

Surur

Edit: One statement in the reviews really turned me off this device. It runs linux, and the software is Java. Apparently there wont be any method of accessing the OS and apps at a low level (accept maybe removing the HD). This closed systems like this is why I dont use palm :(

Surur

[Trunkmonkey]

Apparently there wont be any method of accessing the OS and apps at a low level (accept maybe removing the HD). This closed systems like this is why I dont use palm :(
No worries. I can neither confirm nor deny a hotkey that spawns an xterm for direct access to a Linux shell (but, right now, it's Ctrl-1 from the main GUI screen). :wink: We won't be directly supporting or advertising access to the Linux shell (don't want consumers breaking stuff), but it'll definitely be there. Also, I'll be personally building VNC as a third party package, so you'll have full access to your Windows, Mac OS X, or X11 desktop over Wi-Fi. :)

[gibson042]

The main problem you will have to face is whether anyone is willing to pay $900 for just the internet on the couch.

Edit: Also, these things are much more than just Internet on the couch. They're full portable media players in addition to having Web and e-mail capability. Fullscreen movie playback. Fullscreen slideshow for photo galleries (portable photo frame). Full consumer high-power IR to turn it into a trainable universal remote control. USB and SD for control of external devices (GPS, digital camera, etc.).

In theory yes, in practice its too big to use on the street, and not business looking enough to use in the office. I think its ideally suited for home use (even more specifically couch use). It can be used in other contexts, but in those places there are better solutions e.g. cheap laptops or PDA's.
Bingo. Viewed in this context, it's a little overdesigned and overexpensive. All that's really needed is a big touchscreen with speakers, a headphone jack, some memory slots, CIR, and WiFi (but at least 802.11g, for video streaming). Almost all (95+%) data will reside elsewhere, so internal storage should be dictated by size and weight. This probably means a 5 GB microdrive, which is enough for a handful of movies, a week's worth of music, a few years' worth of pictures, or a very large collection of simple games (for those situations when you do want to take it on a trip). To finish it off, Windows CE (possibly Windows Mobile) or a customized 2.6+ Linux (:way to go:), VNC software, and a price comparable with the cheapest laptops available.

The next version Pepper will probably come even closer than this one, but obviously hard drive capacity will not go down so it'll probably be either a little bigger or a little more expensive than my description.

[Damion Chaplin]

I would buy this device if it could do two things for me:

1) Replace my ATI remote for my HTPC (mouse and program controls), using the standard windows controls (like play/pause, stop, volume).
2) If it would pop up a virtual keyboard so I could use it as a keyboard for my HTPC.

If I could integrate it that closely with my HTPC, it would be the perfect accessory. It could take the place of my HTPC remote and keyboard, plus it could take the place of the laptop that sits on my coffee table for web browsing.

I know this would already be possible by utilizing the wi-fi connection, but I would prefer a simple windows-based program (like the ATI remote wonder software) to perform control functions. I don't want to have to spend 2 weeks configuring it properly so my girlfriend can use it...

[Trunkmonkey]

1) Replace my ATI remote for my HTPC (mouse and program controls), using the standard windows controls (like play/pause, stop, volume).
There will be downloadable device profiles to automatically program the remote control software for your various home theater devices. We're taking advantage of various open source repositories and will have converters to import profiles in various formats.

If a device profile isn't available, you'll be able to train the Pepper wireless pad using your current remote, save the profile, and add it to the repository for others to use.

2) If it would pop up a virtual keyboard so I could use it as a keyboard for my HTPC.
Is there any specific reason why you want a popup virtual keyboard? It already has a built-in split QWERTY keyboard.

http://www.pepper.com/content/press_room/images/20040902-144921-Pepper_Pad_2-Left_Angle-D-01-DWC768.jpg

[adambravo]

But your desktop has to be on all the time. Also isn't it the case that when you are using the Air panel no one else can use your desktop at the same time? It ends up just being a portable screen, not a separate usable computer.

Surur



Yes, it's on all the time (whose desktop isn't on all the time?), and I'm the only one in the house using my computer. It would be impractical in a household with kids where everyone needs to use one machine, of course. But life is full of compromises...