The Economist Asks: Are Mobile Phones The Devices that Ate Everything?

[Jonathon Watkins]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=3713943' target='_blank'>http://www.economist.com/displaysto...tory_id=3713943</a><br /><br /></div><i>"The increasing sophistication of mobile phones—many of which now include music playback among their growing list of functions—raises questions about the long-term prospects for dedicated music players, digital cameras and other devices. Surely most people would prefer a single “converged” device to a pocket full of separate ones? . . . As mobile phones become more sophisticated, will they gobble up other portable devices? Will the mobile phone become the device that ate everything? Not necessarily. As the examples of the mobile phone's collision with the PDA and the digital camera illustrate, the notion of “convergence” is misleading. When digital devices meet, they do not so much converge as procreate, producing some surprising-looking offspring."</i><br /><br />Ah, the age-old question of where it's best to have one general-purpose device, or several specialised ones. The Economist article is very readable and offers a perceptive and thoughtful perspective on the argument, as you would expect. They reckon that phones are not so much omnivorous as promiscuous and that the best way to describe what's happening at the moment is not convergence, but divergence. In the end, all-in-one super-phones will appeal to some folks, but the increasing diversity of the digital ecosystem means that the right device (or devices) will be out there for you. I've flip-flopped a few times about the one/several devices argument as my needs have changed. How about you guys? Pocket PCs will soon offer multiple gigabytes of storage, have embedded phones and can offer GPS, media playback and all the other goodies you can think of. Do you reckon you will need to carry any other device?

[surur]

Are mobile phones the device that ate everything?

Yes.

Next question.... :twisted:

Surur

[phanprod]

Do you reckon you will need to carry any other device?

I sure do. Different device types require different... interfaces. I'd like to see a few things combined, and ergonomics improved, but I don't think there will ever be a truly successful all-in-one phone. To make it work, you'd have to have seperate accessories for every feature... and at that point, why not just carry around the individual devices themselves?

[Muntasser]

NO, not at all.

You will never get a camera in a mobile phone IMO that will take away the need for a proper digital camera. NO matter how many MP, the fact is u need to condense the optics to the point where optical zoom is impossible. Anyway, just my thoughts.

However, Phone/PDA convergence seems like a good idea. Waiting to see a good flip phone/PDA with imate Jam good looks on the market!

[pr0vider]

I know it'll never happen but I'd like to see a WM PDA (sans wifi, bluetooth, hard keyboards and whatever media player is in fashion at the moment..)
merged with a basic phone (the sort that just lets me call out and receive calls). No frills, and at a very basic price, too.

Although I have an interest in gadgets, I want one that's configured with MY modest needs in mind; not one that tries to be all things to all people. :|

[surur]

You will never get a camera in a mobile phone IMO that will take away the need for a proper digital camera. NO matter how many MP, the fact is u need to condense the optics to the point where optical zoom is impossible. Anyway, just my thoughts.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0503/samsung_schv770inuse-001.jpg
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0503/05030901samsung_schv770.asp

You were saying? Thats 7 megapixel btw.

Surur

[phanprod]

You were saying? Thats 7 megapixel btw.
Problem is, the smaller you make the lens, the lower the quality. Lots of arguments to support this. For good pics, you need a good high quality lens, or else you've got 7 megapixels of garbage.

[Shaun Stuart]

I have swiched between one and two devices over the last 3 years - my current choice is the PDA2k and while this is a great device and works for most of the time if i am honest it is both too big (for a phone) and too small (for a laptop replacement).

my ideal set up will be two devices that do everything (wi-fi,3g,bluetooth,gps,camera, mp3, storage etc) but at varying qualities based on two sizes i could live with.

For example I would like a small phone like the imate jam, and a large but still pocketable media device like the new mda iv. But what i would really like is for there to be a permanent link between them so whatever changes made on one are changed on the other automatically. Both devices should also have the option to use the same phone number. This
would allow me to choose which one I want to take out depending on the occasion - working in the office when my pc is available or going out at the weekend i would use the smaller device. Working at home or out on the road I would take the larger model.

[surur]

You were saying? Thats 7 megapixel btw.
Problem is, the smaller you make the lens, the lower the quality. Lots of arguments to support this. For good pics, you need a good high quality lens, or else you've got 7 megapixels of garbage.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/media/users/4259/samsung_sch_v770_01.jpg

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/5879.html

You were saying x 2?

Surur

[gibson042]

You were saying x 2?
Hahahaha, you just made my day! :lol:

But can it run Linux? :wink:

[Cotytto]

This my first post...

I would love PDA and Cell Phone convergence. However, Microsoft and everybody else seems to be working against it. e.g. Microsoft has not made Microsoft Reader available for Smartphone and many companies needlessly hinder bluetooth.

I agree that a good camera will need to be a separate device, but the crappy small lenses in some cameras are getting better and it would not be a bad extra for a converged device.

[surur]

You were saying x 2?
Hahahaha, you just made my day! :lol:

But can it run Linux? :wink:

Samsung to Build Linux Smart Phones (http://www.icetalk.com/samsung-to-build-linux-smart-phones-N1326.html)

Monday, October 06th 10:05:04
Global number-three handset manufacturer Samsung Electronics Co Ltd will announce its intention to build smart phones based on Linux in the near future.

The South Korean consumer electronics giant has never publicly stated a intention to develop handsets based on the software. However, a press release issued Thursday by Superscape Group Plc indicated that Samsung has licensed the company's ARM Swerve i3D Graphics Client technology, which it jointly developed with mobile chip designer ARM Holdings Ltd, for "a new series of Linux-based Samsung SmartPhones" to be launched before the end of the year

Maybe it does already?

Surur

[onepieceman]

You were saying? Thats 7 megapixel btw.
Problem is, the smaller you make the lens, the lower the quality. Lots of arguments to support this. For good pics, you need a good high quality lens, or else you've got 7 megapixels of garbage.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/media/users/4259/samsung_sch_v770_01.jpg

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/5879.html

You were saying x 2?

Surur

Er... How do you put that in your pocket?

[rmasinag]

No matter what phone cameras will be crap. I agree with the lens size arguments. But most ppl are point and shoot kind so it doesnt matter having a crap camera phone.

For me a digital SLR is still the way to go. Very inconvienient( i.e. bulky), but the but "the juice is worth the squeeze."

If they built a SLR with a bt phone, now they might be talking.
Common sense say this might not be a hit though. :)

[onepieceman]

On the subject of optics, there is a new technology being developed which dynamically changes the shape of a liquid lens, leading to a much more compact zoom assembly. Take a look here (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/varioptic-liquid-lens-027939.php)
Also, one of the advantages of digital cameras that has not yet been exploited is the ability to digitally process the image while the photo is being taken. Even if the optics are inferior, it doesn't follow you will necessarily have to put up with an inferior picture.

[lorienferris]

The main hinderance to convergence for me is screen size. I want a larger screen for my pocketpc and a smaller one for my phone. I don't want a phone with a large screen because it is inconvienient to hold up to my face. Converseley, I don't want a small screen on my pocketpc because I want to be able to watch video on it. Am I the only one who cares about this, because I havn't seen anyone talk about this subject. :?

[surur]

Er... How do you put that in your pocket?

Is that a cameraphone in your pocket or are you just happy to see me :twisted:

The lens is detachable and interchangeable. Actually to move the conversation on, what other gadgets can be integrated in mobile phones? I suggest credit cards, then I wont have to carry my wallet, and of course your watch. Also memory thumb stick.

Surur

[Jonathon Watkins]

Problem is, the smaller you make the lens, the lower the quality. Lots of arguments to support this. For good pics, you need a good high quality lens, or else you've got 7 megapixels of garbage.

You were saying x 2?

Surur

What's your point here Surur? So you get zoomed in garbage? Megapixels do Not equal quality. No thanks. :wink:

[surur]

What's your point here Surur? So you get zoomed in garbage? Megapixels do Not equal quality. No thanks. :wink:

There is no reason why the pictures cant be good. The lens system and sensor is designed by pentax. It has a variety of manual controls. This is just a camera with phone attached, with very little compromises. In the end the quality of the pictures are down to the skill of the photographer :roll:

Surur

[LarDude]

Problem is, the smaller you make the lens, the lower the quality. Lots of arguments to support this. For good pics, you need a good high quality lens, or else you've got 7 megapixels of garbage.

You were saying x 2?

Surur

What's your point here Surur? So you get zoomed in garbage? Megapixels do Not equal quality. No thanks. :wink:

Was the Hubble space telescope not initially fabricated with some errors in the optics which sorely limited the potential results? Eventually clever software solutions and brute-force CPU power overcame some of these limitations and some fairly stunning pictures came out.

Point is: Is it really zoomed-in garbage? Much of the data is still there. Granted 7MP with a "good" lens will always be better, but what about 7MP with a "crappy" lens *PLUS* excellent filtering software *PLUS* a good reference calibration? Could it beat 5 or 6 MP?

[Rob Alexander]

What's your point here Surur? So you get zoomed in garbage? Megapixels do Not equal quality. No thanks. :wink:

There is no reason why the pictures cant be good. The lens system and sensor is designed by pentax. It has a variety of manual controls. This is just a camera with phone attached, with very little compromises. In the end the quality of the pictures are down to the skill of the photographer :roll:

Surur

Of course there's compromise, you're just looking in the wrong place for it. Read the press release you linked us to and tell me *anything* about the phone. As you say above, this isn't a phone with a camera; it's a camera with a phone. It's probably a decent compact P&amp;S camera, but you can bet it's a total piece of junk as a phone.

[surur]

A phone is very easy. Its about 4th on the list of functions for this device.

1) Impress the ladies. Mine IS bigger than yours :twisted:
2) Impress your business partners and competitors. Who has the most expensive, feature rich phone with non-crappy camera? I do of course!
3) Camera
4) Phone
5) mp3 player
6) camcorder
7) business card reader (helps with 2)

Its really just a game of oneupmanship, but hopefully it will trickle down in a year or two into phones with ccd, not cmos sensors and glass, not plastic lenses. But back on topic. Yes, the camera people have cause to fear the cellphone people (which is why they rather team up with them) and the PDA people have already decided if they cant beat them, to join them.

Surur

[Gremmie]

Side note: I would suggest individuals look towards the Economist more in regards to hotly contested arguments. They regularly bring up technology issues, and at least once a quarter, review technology. In the past 4 weeks, there have been numerous articles that would interest PPCT readers; at the very least, The Economist admits when they're wrong and aren't ashamed, they certainly promote a higher form of journalism that is absent from other tech writers.

[phanprod]

First of all, ccd and cmos are two different things.. one being a sensor, and the other being a design classification. There was reference to liquid lens technology, which is fair. I think that has great potential. There was also a point about screen size. This will hinder device convergence significantly until digital ink comes of age... or someone develops something better.

As time goes by, the phone cameras will increase in quality - but no amount of filtering and processing will compare to a high-end digital slr. As the point and shoots get better, so will the slr's. The reference to the Hubble was a good one, but the distortions on Hubble's lens were variations in the surface. It was still a huge lens that let in huge amounts of light, but the flaws were mathematically correctable.

All in all, there will be all sorts of convergance devices, but each one has a strength and many weaknesses. To distort an old saying, "You can excel in some features all of the time, but not all features some of the time." I think my grandmother used to tell me a version of that one... but it had nothing to do with technology. Oh well. Sure, you can play the 'my device is better than yours' game, but I just want something I can use efficiently - and if it takes a few devices to do it well, then so be it.

[ChristopherTD]

Well my Pocket PC just ate my cellphone!

I replaced my iPaq 5550 and Motorola V500 with a 128MB iMate Jam and I am very pleased. Reading books (eReader and MS Reader) work nicely on the small screen, especially in landscape. All the PDA functions work as expected, and in the 10 days I have had it, the 2 phone calls I have made have worked as well!

However, I can't see any further convergence for the other 2 gadgets (iPod, Nintendo DS) I carry, there are physical and power limitations that make it unlikely that a small PPC phone will also sport a 40GB disk any time soon. As for gaming there simply aren't any PPC titles that rise above the "momentarily diverting" stage for me, setting aside the physical problems of a device with buttons and controls not designed for gaming.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Well my Pocket PC just ate my cellphone!

That's what I'm planning as well. :wink:

However, I can't see any further convergence for the other 2 gadgets (iPod, Nintendo DS) I carry, there are physical and power limitations that make it unlikely that a small PPC phone will also sport a 40GB disk any time soon. As for gaming there simply aren't any PPC titles that rise above the "momentarily diverting" stage for me, setting aside the physical problems of a device with buttons and controls not designed for gaming.

True, you won't get 40Gb soon, but you may well get 4 or 6Gb in the not too distant future. I take your point about gaming. The increase in form factors makes it harder for game designers to get the best out of a non-standard hardware layout. There are still many very good PPC games out there though.

[Jonathon Watkins]

I would suggest individuals look towards the Economist more in regards to hotly contested arguments. They regularly bring up technology issues, and at least once a quarter, review technology. In the past 4 weeks, there have been numerous articles that would interest PPCT readers; at the very least

I totally agree, which is why I like linking to them. The problem is that many of the more interesting articles are for subscribers only. I am a subscriber, so it;s not a problem for me, but the point is for everyone to read the articles we link to (where possible). Fortunately the subscribers only designation appearers to be a temporary thing, i.e. after a week or two, anyone can access the stories. That's why there is often a bit of a delay in getting the stories. However, I can say there are a few in the pipeline.

The Economist admits when they're wrong and aren't ashamed, they certainly promote a higher form of journalism that is absent from other tech writers.

:way to go:

[jgalindo]

I'm all for all in one!

So far my pocket pc has eaten up my paper agenda, my cell phone, my MP3 player, my Car CDs, My Gameboy, My Watch.....50% of my laptop use at home


Can't wait until it eats up my GPS, my Camera, 100% of my PC usage(see OQO), maybe my wallet by providing cashfree paying, maybe my keys by providing keyless entry, my DVD players by linking to the TV wirelessly

Endless possibilities. 8)

[Jonathon Watkins]

Good to see you Lorienferris.

The main hinderance to convergence for me is screen size. I want a larger screen for my pocketpc and a smaller one for my phone. I don't want a phone with a large screen because it is inconvienient to hold up to my face. Converseley, I don't want a small screen on my pocketpc because I want to be able to watch video on it. Am I the only one who cares about this, because I havn't seen anyone talk about this subject. :?

I think there's a fair few of us that care about the subject of screen size. The point the Economist was making was that there will soon be a spectrum of devices, covering all sizes, shapes etc. The debate about the 'idea' size of PPC reflects this. I want a 4 inch screen for my main Pocket PC (with embedded phone) and I accept that it won't be pocketable. However, with a bluetooth headset, it does not need to be. It would also be good to have a small secondary PPC, which can be used almost purely as a phone.

I don't regard the current crop of PPC with phones as phones with added PPC functionality. Rather, they are Pocket PCs with embedded phones. As others have said, my Pocket PC ate my phone. :wink:

[surur]

I don't regard the current crop of PPC with phones as phones with added PPC functionality. Rather, they are Pocket PCs with embedded phones. As others have said, my Pocket PC ate my phone. :wink:

Thats because the phone app is very poorly executed. There should be an option to set the dialler as your default screen (as apposed to the today screen). The dialler should have displayed obvious things such as battery life and signal strength. Voice dialing should have been included as standard, and should have worked over bluetooth. The interface should have been designed for fingers, not stylus, and it should have been easy to dial contacts, and changing ring tones should have been trivial (with fingers). Individual ring tones for different categories should have been obvious.

Lets face it, none of these things are rocket science. Pocketpc phones should have been BETTER phones than dumb phones, accept for size and battery life. Instead they are WORSE than most free phones, and for no discernible reason other than MS programmer laziness.

Surur

[Steve Jordan]

The Economist actually has the right idea, but the wrong direction. A cell phone with PDA, camera, music, etc, features is actually pretty silly. A PDA with camera, music, and phone capabilities makes a lot more sense. Especially with the PDA's superior input/output methods, ie, large touchscreens, full keyboards, expandability, and easily-attached peripherals.

Examples: People don't exchange e-mails with a phone, but they use a Blackberry (more like a PDA than a phone), or PDAs with wireless capabilities. How many people take down appointments on their cellphones? How many people type notes and lists on a 12-key keyboard? How many people have the dexterity to take down contact info on that 12-key keyboard, while they're talking?

PDAs are infinitely more flexible, and better set to accept the added feature of phone usage, than cellphones are to take over all of the functions of a PDA. A PDA with a corded (or better yet, cordless) mike/earpiece for phone use would be far easier to use for all-around tasks.

[Phillip Dyson]

I'm not sure which way I'm going.
I've gone from a PDA and non-smartphone to a PDA and smartphone.

However for calendar, contacts, email, etc the smartphone is 99% read-only. Thats how I use it anyways. Unfortunately, because I use Intellisync at work, my phone often because outdated as the day progress.

I don't think that I would go totally convergence. Most because of the fact that I want my relationship with an OEM and a Wireless provide to remain seperate. Depending on the mood of either, I may get screwed, or I may get pampered.