The HX4700 debate/issue

[Albinoni]

First off I will admit that the HX4700 would have to be one the most nicest and smartest PPC's that I've ever seen, no matter what. Its screen deserves a 10/10 score for its clarity and size. Yep these Taiwanese have always had their heads screwed on right when it comes to technology and gadgets, as I presume the HP HX4700 is manufactured by HTC Taiwan, and they're actually made them. The previous HP 5400/5500 series was actually made in Korea by LG Electronics.

Now what I dont like about the 4700 is that is comes built in with Pocket Informant. Pls dont get me wrong here, I'm not here to say that PI is a bad program, I use it my self, love it, swear by it and personnaly reckon its prob the best PIM for PPC out there. I have also tried AF as well, did like it, very nice, but for my liking I preferd PI over AF, and it all boild down to personal taste.

But I think for HP to bundle PI with the 4700 was not the right thing to do, simple reasons are:

1. People/users should have a right on what PIM they want to use, be it PI
AF or whatever.

2. Remember the browser war between MS and Netscape, well this might
now cause a PIM war, against AF and PI.

3. What version of PI does the 4700 come with, I know as a fact that PI
are quite ever so often updating their PI products and if so can this be
upgraded.

4. What does the user do if he/she buys the 4700, takes it home, then
realises it comes bundled with PI. This user might be a pro AF user and
prefers AF over PI, can he/she take back the unit and ask for a refund.

Like I said abobe, I beleive that all PPC's should be freely open and let the user decide what software (apart from the usual word, excel etc) he/she wants to install.

[Ultima]

The Mac Mini I bought recently came with Internet Explorer on it. It doesn't mean I have to actually USE Internet Explorer on it, as the Mac version happens to be out of date and rather crusty compared to Firefox or Safari on the same machine.

So, HP wants to increase the value of their PDA by including a version of pocket informant on it, which, from my understanding, is optimized for the VGA screen as opposed to the standard programs which are not. Cool, good deal for the purchaser.

I don't use either PI or AF, because the standard tools are good and comfortable for me. However, I would not expect there to be any conflict inbetween PI and AF, so there should be no problem loading AF on the 4700 if that's what you like. Simply delete the PI icon out of Windows\Start Menu\Programs and you can pretend it was never there.

I also checked on Pocket Informant's website, they say this about upgrading:
"The HP hx470x Series iPaqs ship with Pocket Informant 5.04 in ROM. These units are licensed only to the version provided in ROM and any future ROM upgrades as HP sees fit to provide. All support for the in-ROM version is through HP. Any upgrades to the most current retail version of Pocket Informant will be at at the cost of $14.98 and will entitle the user to support from our technicians as well as all the standard entitlements provided by the retail release."

It seems the standard version is $30, so that doesn't seem like that bad of an offer. I would suppose that the current version would load right over the top of the ROM included version, essentially taking it's place, but it will use up a bit of RAM.

To sum it up:

1. People do have a right to use what they want to use, HP doesn't appear to be stopping them, just choosing for the people who would not choose either before.
2. Who cares? May the best PIM win. ^^
3. Pocket Informant says 5.04. Current version is 5.61. Pocket Informant says "You want it? Pay me $15." If the person is pro-AF, use AF instead. No harm done.

[Wiggster]

To respond to a few of your points:

1. People/users should have a right on what PIM they want to use, be it PI
AF or whatever.
As was said, including software in a device in no way means that you have to use it. There's nothing on the 4700 to prevent you from installing AF or any other software.

2. Remember the browser war between MS and Netscape, well this might
now cause a PIM war, against AF and PI.
For that matter, you could argue that PI is competing against the built-in organizer applications that are already a part of Windows Mobile. But that's not how it works; if Tasks, Notes, Inbox, and To-Do were squelching PI, no one would buy it, and that's far from the case. Moreover, I highly doubt that ONE PDA model will start a war between PIMs which are already competing in the market place.

3. What version of PI does the 4700 come with, I know as a fact that PI
are quite ever so often updating their PI products and if so can this be
upgraded.
You're not getting the full version of Pocket Informant, HP isn't making you pay for that. You get a specialized version, so if you want to upgrade, just pay a small upgrade price.

4. What does the user do if he/she buys the 4700, takes it home, then
realises it comes bundled with PI. This user might be a pro AF user and
prefers AF over PI, can he/she take back the unit and ask for a refund.
That's a bit like returning a car because you don't like the shape of the floormats. You can easily install whatever software you want, and if you already have that software paid for, you have a license and you can switch over to the new PDA without hassle.

PDAs should be open to install whatever software you want? Okay, sounds good. You can do that on your 4700. You can install AF all you want. You have to pay for it, just like you would any other software. HP decided to include the PI software, so the license for the limited version that is included in the cost of the machine. You don't have to use it; I for one never use PI, as I don't use a PDA to keep track of that stuff (funny, huh? :wink:). You can't really complain about what HP chooses to ship its products with by saying it doesn't give you a choice; that's the way PDAs are. With a 4700, you HAVE to use Windows Mobile out of the box. You can't free up the ROM space by deleting it, it's just an essential part of the machine.

But having software installed on a PDA increases the out-of-box usability and intrinsic value of having such a device. Imagine if you had a PDA that you paid for and it doesn't come with ANY software at all. Sure, you can download all that stuff, but imagine downloading a web browser, a PIM suite, an email package, and a solitaire game. That costs more money, and it's a lot more difficult than pressing the "On" button the first time. We don't have to use the software our PDA comes with, it's usually in ROM and not wasting any value RAM space. You can easily pretend it's not there. You're not losing space; if the manufacturer decided to NOT include t hat software, they wouldn't have put in that much ROM in the first place :wink:

Congrats on your purchase! :mrgreen:

[KuroNeko]

my 4700 is en route. I don't need & want PI, so can I uninstall it?

Neko

[Albinoni]

my 4700 is en route. I don't need & want PI, so can I uninstall it?

Neko

I thought you cannot un-install PI from the 4700, as it's built into the ROM and impossible to remove.

Also I beleive that this is not the full version of PI, so what is it missing?

[Ultima]

You can remove the shortcut to PI from the Windows\Start Menu\Programs folder, and then it's "as if" it was uninstalled. :)

[KuroNeko]

won't it still eat memory at startup?

Neko

[Menneisyys]

won't it still eat memory at startup?

Neko

It still will. You can't remove it from (flash) ROM.

[KuroNeko]

Rats. That's the reason I want it out - it's not used so why would I allow it to use up valuable ram?

Anyway it can be deleted safely? I.e. just throwing out all files, will this not stop it from running and claiming ram space at boot?

Neko

[Menneisyys]

Rats. That's the reason I want it out - it's not used so why would I allow it to use up valuable ram?

Anyway it can be deleted safely? I.e. just throwing out all files, will this not stop it from running and claiming ram space at boot?

Neko

I don't think it takes any RAM - only running/started ROM-based apps reserve RAM memory for their stack/heap. So, unless you run it, don't be worried about it taking up any RAM.

[Tye]

Some of this has already been mentioned, but just to summarize:
You cannot remove it from ROM.
If you don't run it, it will not take away from usable RAM.
It *is* the full version of PI, just not the newest full version because HP can't upgrade the ROM everytime PI launches a new version (which is quite often)
You can easily upgrade to the newest version--as stated. You will need to pay for that and currently, any new versions must be installed in RAM. So, at that point, it will take a little more of your storage memory. I think Alex is planning for a way to install new releases to the FileStore but I won't swear to that.
PI is not so integrated into the OS that you can't avoid using it (as IE started/is starting to be to Windows).
Hope that helps.

You'll love the 4705. As long as you're not a big action gamer, it's a great machine. Enjoy!

[riuster]

The 4700 keeps on freezing up, especially when the unit is off and prompts an appointment in memory, as I turn it on, with the appointment alert...then it freezes..this happens all the time....

ANNOYING!

[Sokudo-San]

The PI that comes on the Rom is basically a demo version that cant be uninstalled...I think this is a kick in the teeth for AF users. I think you have no choice but to upgrade to the full version of PI. Its not all bad news though...PI 2005 is rather good!

[Hrun]

I think Alex is planning for a way to install new releases to the FileStore but I won't swear to that.

Enjoy!

I am running PI from the filestore on a rx3715 with no apparent problems

HTH
Giles

[mesposito2]

The PI that comes on the Rom is basically a demo version that cant be uninstalled...I think this is a kick in the teeth for AF users. I think you have no choice but to upgrade to the full version of PI. Its not all bad news though...PI 2005 is rather good!

It's not a demo version. It was the current version at the time the ROM's were burned. There is no significance to the comment that it can't be uninstalled, so I'm not sure what you meant by that. It would be like saying that a PC's BIOS couldn't be uninstalled.

AF users lose nothing. Just install AF. I think HP should be congratulated for putting a piece of great 3rd party software in their ROM, making the machine more usable out of the box. They are also to be congratulated in supporting 3rd party developers in this way.

Mark