Windows? Palm? Linux? Mark Menarik Has An Idea of His Own!

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.technewsworld.com/story/40471.html' target='_blank'>http://www.technewsworld.com/story/40471.html</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Mark Menarik, CEO of Chicago-based TanCher, believes that a new PDA designed for students can foster a revolution in teaching with technology. His innovation could herald a breakthrough in mobile computing platforms if his plan succeeds. According to Menarik, the shapes of the BlackBerry and Treo are not user friendly. So TanCher is introducing a new design for a student appliance for school systems around the country. Students will use this new device for such things as to respond to questions in the classroom instead of raising their hands. The PDA will also allow students to take tests and to receive homework and notes from the classroom lesson they received half an hour ago."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050213-TanCher.gif" /><br /><br />This is definitely an aspiration unlike any other. Read the quote and you can already see where this is going. In this day and age, a new PDA must bring many new and exciting innovations if it is to be successful, so what does Mark Menarik think the TanCher Internet and Mobile Platform (TIM) will deliver that no other current PDA does? (1) peer-to-peer networking capabilities that will not rely on the internet to maintain a connection, (2) full internet browsing capabilities, (3) a high quality screen (supposedly comparable to that of a desktop computer), (4) a QWERTY keyboard, and (5) a unique operating system environment - the TanCher OS. A working prototype of the TIM will supposedly appear in six months time (if funding permits), and if successful, TanCher is hoping to license it out to other developers. While the TIM is largely aimed at the educational market, the concept of a new mobile platform is interesting nonetheless. I found the article to be a good read, and I think you will too. So have a read of it and let us know your thoughts - think it shows promise, or is this going to be a flop?

[surur]

An optimised platform is really ideal for a vertical market such as schools, but as soon as you optimise you lose the economies of scale benefits from using a more general platform. Things like cheaper hardware, pre-written software, more heads to give advice and provide support, and smaller mindshare.

So in short its a good idea, but will never get of the ground, because it will be too expensive and always 2 generations behind.

Nice idea though. A better solution may be a nice slate tablet pc with software such as Spb kiosk (or similar) to reduce support costs and allow all the UI and usability customisation they require without having to write an OS from scratch.

Surur

[straysheepie]

Having recently escaped the high school system (in university now :D ) and a gadget freak, I'm surprised at myself this concept doesn't move me. Like Surur said, there are so many other things you can adapt to a school environment - why can't they focus on writing a high-quality educational killer ap for Pocket PC and/or Tablet PC platforms? Then they can push schools to build wifi networks and teachers and students can look things up on the internet when they need it. I remember reading an article earlier about kids being given PDAs (forget which platform) and keyboards and that increased productivity and learning without as much expense.

Oh, and how are public school systems going to afford this? In Vancouver we already have increasing class sizes due to budget cuts and there isn't heavy investment in technology from what I've seen. A teacher I still chat with sometimes mentioned requesting an internet connection be installed in his room to incorporate some multimedia content for math/science classes and was initially approved, then told there isn't enough funding - I believe it was only around $150 8O

Just realized I typed a lot - just riles me up that people are aiming for things like this when schools still have a long way to go. Or perhaps I'm mistaken and schools in US or other districts have a bigger technology budget?

[Gremmie]

Having recently escaped the high school system (in university now :D ) and a gadget freak, I'm surprised at myself this concept doesn't move me. Like Surur said, there are so many other things you can adapt to a school environment - why can't they focus on writing a high-quality educational killer ap for Pocket PC and/or Tablet PC platforms?

Because some of the proposed modifications are hardware, not software.

[Typhoon]

Sounds odd. I don't think using handwriting recoginition and any kind of keyboard is fast enough to answer the teacher's questions. The only thing I have ever imagined a computer powered device like a PDA can do is eliminate all that heaviness of books. Just imagine that, just use a 1/4 pound PDA to carry all your books compared to 15 pound backpack. This would definitely work for high school and college (won't have to run back to your car to get a new book). But besides this, I think paper, pen, myself, and books works creat.

[Gerard]

I'm surprised at myself this concept doesn't move me...

... and how are public school systems going to afford this? In Vancouver we already have increasing class sizes due to budget cuts and there isn't heavy investment in technology from what I've seen.

... Or perhaps I'm mistaken and schools in US or other districts have a bigger technology budget?

Our kid is in grade 6 here in Vancouver. She's in a somewhat different sort of public school, one where an alternative structure (mixed-grade classes, no grades, no serious tests, engaging kids as both learners and teachers, lots of other good stuff) has been in place for more than 25 years and working very well. They are bombarded every year from high schools where these kids go on to study, mostly asking "how did you make these kids so brilliant?" It's done by enthusiastic teachers and parents, folks who want the next generation to be better people, not necessarily better test takers.

They have the odd Mac scattered around. Her class has two. It's a shared class, two teachers and two rooms with about 45 kids and a bunch of over-stuffed ratty old couches and chairs in one and work tables for crafts projects in the other. Kids get access to the computers to research the odd thing as it comes up in class. Otherwise they consult eachother, the adults, or parents and computers at home later. Parental involvement in projects is always a high priority.

Literacy is better than average. Math and social sciences skills are also above average here. These are children up to grade 7, so PDA use will not likely enter the picture for a long while yet, and only if it becomes mainstream enough so as to seem relevant. The odd one has a cellphone, but it is not common. Most have a computer at home. The library is well stocked with books, and a librarian is always available to help research online at one of several terminals there.

We are hoping to find a high school as good, but chances seem slim. As much as I'm big on PPC use, I'd not consider such as even making the list of priorities for her high school. She has a Pocket PC, but doesn't use it all that much - my old Casio EG-800 serves for some graphics and gaming, the odd other activity, but she favours a notebook PC for anything serious and has become rather adept at Google searches. By the time she gets to grade 9 or 10 she'll probably have a slimmer model PPC and use it more... but a wireless card and a wireless AP in the school should be good enough. A folding keyboard will complete the bill, giving her all the portable computing she'll likely need without having a custom (and very expensive) new device with yet another OS to learn.

The two most likely schools she'll go to next both have Wi-Fi networks with unencrypted always-on access. In-class research is available at both via computers at the sides of most classes, and a person with their own wireless handheld won't ever have to wait. I'm perhaps being a bit muddy here... guess what I'm saying is; why spend a ton of extra money on what is already available for not so much?

Vancouver's school board is not rolling in money. Cutbacks by the provincial government (bunch of pro-corporate, anti-poor-folks @$$}{0L#$ calling themselves 'Liberals' - what a crock, and we'll be voting them out this summer) present and past (go figure) have left them scrambling year after year to both educate the masses and upgade schools to meet current earthquake specs. With dollars spread so thinly, Charles Dickens Elementary routinely runs out of office supplies around March and requests donations of paper and stuff from parents and faculty. The VSB is rather unlikely to be able to supply devices at $1000 per kid or more, especially unproven devices. Field trips, costing less than $25, have already been eliminated. The school buses are just too expensive to run.

Some US and Canadian districts do indeed have more money to play with. I've read of tablet PC adoption being mandated in some Eastern US schools, but I think those were privately run, and the parents had to fork over the cash.

[frankenbike]

Never gonna sail in the US. If you limit the prospects to private schools rolling in money, the devices would be too expensive even for there.

If you think you're gonna sell such things to public schools, you're just plain out of your mind. They don't have money for essential and long lived items like books. Educators are not stupid, and they know that nothing is older than 4 year old technology, except maybe 15 year old technology. And quite a few school systems have Macs that date back that far.

As for students buying such things for themselves...most public schools won't allow it, because it would give an unfair advantage to the rich kids.

And teachers won't support such expenditures for school districts either. Relative to their education, they're grossly underpaid and if there is money for toys, there's money for salaries.

How can the educational system trust a guy like Menarik, when he hasn't done his homework. His potential market is nothing of the kind. Subtract every school district that is suffering from funding strangulation, and there isn't much left over for technology that will be outdated, broken, lost or stolen within a couple of years.

[Gremmie]

Here's the question I pose, what is the point? What can PDA's do in schools that cannot be achieved through traditional means? I don't find it likely that a student who doesn't keep track of her assignments will reform when using a PDA.

Arguably, it can reduce costs. Despite an initial cost, it could reduce the costs of books. However, electronic books aren't cheaper, the intellectual property seems to be costly enough. Also, the depreciation of electronics is significantly higher for electronics than books.

Internet access is very important, which a PDA can provide. However, is PDAs a better alternative than desktops? Desktops are widely available and often donated by companies because of their availability. Also, it is easier to fix a computer than a PDA.

I can see internet being a major point for PDAs, but desktops seem to be a better alternative. Beyond internet access, I struggle to find the reason why you want to implement PDAs for students.

I agree that we should avoid the idea that technology inherently improves the classroom, where, in actuality, placing schools in loco parentis is a better idea.

[surur]

This proposal is by the people who made the Cybiko
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/icruz/html/images/cybiko.jpg which they sold for only $99. Its sounds like they want to sell an upgraded version for maybe $300, with a bigger screen and teaching orientated software. One of the most innovative features was the peer to peer wireless which allowed it to form a kind of mesh network for email etc.

I can see many good uses for such a device. Make it rugged and with a good battery life. Then add a graphing calculator, e-mail from teacher to child and parents, email from child to child, push assignments and to do lists which the parents can review, push reading lists and record grades so the parents can review them. Use them for quizzes in class (where the child can respond via key presses (like who want to be a millionaire)) so that their results can automatically be recorded on the computer etc.

If they make it Cheap and Useful for the Teacher, Child and Parent (each, else it will never work), then I can see this having a chance of working. I initially thought they were going for a big screen device, but now I think they were just exaggerating about the quality of the screen, and it will still be a small, maybe qvga device. If they use it to improve the administration involved in student life, instead of as a learning aid (where computers have not really proven themselves) I think they may just succeed. I can imagine little Johnny coming home and mum saying "Let me see your Cybiko, and see what work you did today, and what homework you need to do".

I wish them the best of luck.

Surur

[Darius Wey]

Here's the question I pose, what is the point? What can PDA's do in schools that cannot be achieved through traditional means? I don't find it likely that a student who doesn't keep track of her assignments will reform when using a PDA. Arguably, it can reduce costs. Despite an initial cost, it could reduce the costs of books. However, electronic books aren't cheaper, the intellectual property seems to be costly enough. Also, the depreciation of electronics is significantly higher for electronics than books.

Personally, I see it from a convenience perspective, rather than cost. If the ED is willing to cover costs for that, then no one is stopping them. I, myself, feel that it's more convenient being able to access references/journals on my PDA, but at times, I still like to put pen to paper for note taking (especially at meetings), so I can see the use of PDAs in the education market as a plus and a minus. You win some - you lose some.

[Zantia]

Hi, I'm Zan. Long time reader first time poster...


Being sixteen and still in highschool this article hits home on many reasons. In my school system we do have 4 or 5 carts of wireless laptops, and every teacher does have their own laptop (in highschool anyway), also every room that wants one has a video projector mounted on the ceiling, maybe four classes don't, also my english teacher gets to test out the new electronic toys, such as wireless mouse/pointers. Maybe I have a rich school system, but it is a public school.

Our school is a little restrictive regarding technology, I'm sure I'd just be luaghed at if I asked for the wireless access code to the networks, children cannot control themselves on the internet.

I would also like to point out that the cybiko is a piece of trash, for the uninformed and the ignorant. My father knows of my love of technology, and at the wonderful age of 13 I recieved "its like a palm, for kids". To start off it doesn't even have a touch screen, the stylus is an aid to hitting the tiny buttons. I always felt lonely because I was never able to find any other people on the built in wireless network, and I do not live near any of the "hotspots" this of course is in quotes because it is not actually wifi. It ran slowly, and it has a terrible screen. It never actually lived up to its battery life claim (2 weeks?). The best part was the site is really colorful and it had a game or two I enjoyed playing. Some people say PDA's are toys... well this is the REAL toy. I would also like to note that my parents shelled out $30 for a whole 1 meg a expansion for this cybiko.

My worst fear is that my school will adopt technologies similar to this and I am glad I am graduating in a year and a half.

I convinced my father to buy me a Handspring Visor Neo 2 years later, and was surprised out how much faster it was, and it had a touch screen to boot! That summer I got a job and could afford my beloved iPaq 2215.

Hopefully that wasn't too.. angry :?

Zan~

[surur]

Welcome Zan.

Im sure the worst part of the experience was being isolated, with network abilities but no-one to network with. Now imagine 500 of these being dropped into your school. Suddenly the network will be abuzz, especially if students were required to use them in classes for some reason or another. I imagine there will be a coolness deficit problem in the higher grades though :)

Its actually quite a capable device. This is from a website where some-one programmed for it:
What are cybiko wireless pda ? Click here for picture of the Cybiko classic. Check out www.cybiko.com, for under $10.00 you can find lot's in e-bay. Cybiko's are kid's pda with lcd screen 160x100 pixel, full QWERTY keyboard with function keys, Ni-MH 700 mAp rechargeable battery, RS232 connection port, built-in RF antenna, stylus, speaker, Charger, PC connection cable, memory expansion, CPU and the best of all... wireless communication. CPU is 32 bit, 11 MHz Hitachi H8s/2246, co-processor is Atmel AT90S2313 4 Mhz, RAM 512 KB, Flash disk 512 KB expandable to 1 MB, expansion cartridge 68-pin, Frequency 902-928 Mhz, 30 digital channels, 19200 bps wireless communication. Wireless communication is 300 feet outdoor, 150 feet indoor. Software Development Kit is available free at www.cybiko.com for Windows and Linux. These cybiko's make excellent, terminals (for siteplayer or TINI or Stamps). Classic style comes with RS-232 and the Extreme comes with USB. I had one cybiko as a master hooked-up to the P.C. running Java software polling 3 cybiko's acting as slaves. Code for the Java server is here. Two codes for the cybiko are available in 'C' language. Master cybiko code is here. Slave cybiko code is here. I had one master constantly polling three cybiko's for over a week without problem. Again, the possibilities are endless, it could be used as a terminal, or how about an e-mail terminal, anywhere inside or outside your house, you can find out if you have new e-mail and read it. These cybiko's are a lot cheaper than buying wireless palm or pocketpc. Search google for source codes, and other cybiko's user's group. Programming is not bad either, nice SDK, a few tutorials, and some complete programs free at www.cybiko.com. For under $10 dollars, it's pretty hard to beat the features of the cybiko, especially if you will use the wireless communication feature.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/icruz/html/java.html#wireless

If they improve the platform and get a network effect going, I can see it being quite popular with the under 13's. With the older ones Im not so sure, but if its a tool more than a game it may still be popular, especially if some-one finds a way to cheat using it :)

Surur

[dazz]

I don't really see a huge need for these kinds of devices in education either, at least not in public school. It makes sense in high school and above as there is a need to reference a lot more info. Still, I don't think that by adding tech we automatically turn out better, smarter students.

As for Tancher's vision, a waste of resource! There is no reason Tancher could not be just a software company and just use gear that is available today. PocketPC and Windows CE.NET devices are VERY powerful and I am sure could handle exactly what Tancher has planned.

It sounds like Tancher is going to go with a clamshell device, simply because of the keyboard and larger screen. Might as well use Window CE.NET units like Data Evolution's Cathena or the Psion Netbook Pro. They are SVGA touch screens and are available now. The Netbook Pro is too expensive but if they were being purchased in quantity I am sure the price could drop significantly.

I hate to be the pessimist but I think Tancher will fail. It would not be a shock if Tancher is just looking to raise a bunch of money and ride it out till it's gone, but that's a little too mercenary-think of me, isn't it? 8)

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, since they did have some success with the Cybiko, this would still have some HUGE challenges to fly. They need to find the investors, the right mix of hardware/software and a decent distribution channel.

If they are successful and this really took off they would then have to fend off competitors. It would be fairly easy for MS to jump back into promoting the HPC form to accomplish the same task.

I guess time will tell on this one, but I am not holding my breath. 8)

[felixdd]

I don't really see a huge need for these kinds of devices in education either, at least not in public school. It makes sense in high school and above as there is a need to reference a lot more info. Still, I don't think that by adding tech we automatically turn out better, smarter students.

As for Tancher's vision, a waste of resource! There is no reason Tancher could not be just a software company and just use gear that is available today. PocketPC and Windows CE.NET devices are VERY powerful and I am sure could handle exactly what Tancher has planned.

It sounds like Tancher is going to go with a clamshell device, simply because of the keyboard and larger screen. Might as well use Window CE.NET units like Data Evolution's Cathena or the Psion Netbook Pro. They are SVGA touch screens and are available now. The Netbook Pro is too expensive but if they were being purchased in quantity I am sure the price could drop significantly.

I hate to be the pessimist but I think Tancher will fail. It would not be a shock if Tancher is just looking to raise a bunch of money and ride it out till it's gone, but that's a little too mercenary-think of me, isn't it? 8)

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, since they did have some success with the Cybiko, this would still have some HUGE challenges to fly. They need to find the investors, the right mix of hardware/software and a decent distribution channel.

If they are successful and this really took off they would then have to fend off competitors. It would be fairly easy for MS to jump back into promoting the HPC form to accomplish the same task.

I guess time will tell on this one, but I am not holding my breath. 8)

I'm with Dazz on this one. Mark Menarik has not convinced me that this device is not a PDA. Quotes like this are especially misleading,

"It's a touch up from a cell phone or smart phone. It's a step down from a tablet PC. It's a new category of device," Menarik said.

A step up from a phone and down from a tablet PC -- it sounds like the PDA/HPC niche to me, Mr. Menarik!

The article sounds like a plea for funding on TanCher's part. Granted, I do think the HPC form factor has an unmined-niche in the education sector, but the main thing keeping the sector from fully adopting was the price. And if Mr. Menarik can pull off a powerful machine at a tenth of the cost, then all the more power to him.

But he's not seeing the big picture. He's running the propreitary path, and people don't like to be locked in like that. And something like the educational sector needs to be especially flexible, and a proprietary system can never achieve this level of flexibility. I think they'll have more luck if they used XP embedded instead -- you can install almost anything you want, yet still have the power of an embedded device.

And finally -- I think his aim at the market is slightly off too. What's wrong with the current system of handing stuff to kids, or raising their hands? Teachers will be reluctant to change (for good reason) if there's nothing wrong with the current system. And answering questions with a keyboard does not help a child's social and communication skills at all. Do we really want to foster the new generation to be one that feels more comfortable sitting in front of a monitor, than interacting with other people?

[frankenbike]

If you're talking about 20 million school aged kids, that's $6 billion at $300 a pop. $6 billion can hire about 150,000 teachers. Tell me that an additional 150,000 teachers wouldn't be of more benefit than such a device.

This doesn't even take into account the additional administrative costs just to maintain a system of that nature (a network with hundreds or thousands of users per school isnt trivial, and requires at least one really good IT person on hand).

The monetary issue is more than trivial, and the cost would have to come down in the same way that say "transister radios", walkman cassette players, computers and the cost of RAM has. In 10-15 years, the cost of the equivalent of a pocket PC in that time frame will be under $50. And they'll all come with some form of full time net access far cheaper than what's available today. Probably running whatever OS is commonplace on desktops at the time.

The principle and concept is probably good. But like many ideas, this one is ahead of its time.