Size Matters: Part Two!

[Jon Westfall]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23432' target='_blank'>http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/...?TOPIC_ID=23432</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/6500g.jpg" /> <br /><br />In my last piece, I discussed the rather fancy mathwork done to figure the approximate size of the hw6500. Well, it looks like it may have been pretty close. Over at GPSPassion, they appear to have the first actual user pictures of this device, and it appears to fit snugly into a hand (With not much room to spare...). <br />They also bring up a good point: the GPS antenna in this thing is internal, and with all that RF traffic buzzing around the BT and GSM radios, how well will it perform?

[Edgar_]

I saw a 6500 NDA slide at an HP briefing yesterday.

I'll play with the device next month in Cupertino (HP)

A> Q2 release (announcement March 17)
B> 4.5" x 2.8" x .63 " (treo 650 is 4.4 x 2.3 x 0.9 not including the antenna stub, so add .5"). My wife has a Treo, and yea it fits in a pocket, just too thick. If you want something smaller you are getting into the smartphone range. Blackberry 7210 (this is being touted internally by HP as the "blackberry killer") is 4.5 x 2.9 x 0.8 inches. so its smaller than a BB
C> GSM/GPRS/GPS/BT - no wifi
D> SD with SDIO (will support a wifi SD card)
E> mini SD
F> 3" transreflective screen at 64k - Im asking for the resolution
G>Releasing with Goodlink software - HP is waiting for RIM to settle their court case before going with Blackberry Connect


6320 being released in 8 weeks (6315 for Cingular - awaiting fcc final ok)

6700 being released Q3 - this is the 6500 with WiFi and only a mini SD for extra memory

Unfortunately I didnt capture the other stats such weight. I've sent a message back asking for resolution.

[badbob001]

Is it me or does the screen not look like it has a square resolution? Is the picture incorrectly stretched vertically?

[Sven Johannsen]

Is it me or does the screen not look like it has a square resolution? Is the picture incorrectly stretched vertically?

It is indeed square. One of the things that WM2003SE added was support for assorted screen aspects and sizes. As is mentioned this allows the keyboard to be added without getting the tall effect of something like the 4300.

[MobilePaddy]

I see t-mobile in the right top corner there, Can we presume we will see this from T-mobile US?

[Jon Westfall]

I see t-mobile in the right top corner there, Can we presume we will see this from T-mobile US?

Not necessarily. Since this is an internal unit, its probably not SIM locked, so they probably just popped in any SIM card they had handy. Given their work with T-Mobile in bring the 6315 to the market, they probably had one of their SIMs for testing purposes.

Then again, it may be a hint of a future T-Mo release...

[R K]

I like the design. It reminds me of the iPAQ H1900/H2200/H4100/H4300 series.

Also, at 0.63" thick, it's probably the thinnest Pocket PC Phone to date. At that size, it should fit very well in your Pocket. Even with a case it should just barely make it in.

iPAQ H6315 = 0.73"
I-mate JAM = 0.70"
I-mate PDA2K = 0.75"

[SteveHoward999]

240x240 screen? No thanks.

I might have been excited by 480x480 ...

[Pdaholic]

Okay, I may consider the version with WiFi. Maybe.

Anyone know if the covers for the hx2700 series will fit? That would make it a much smaller device if you didn't have to buy a bulky case (as you with the Treo).

Honestly, the size of this thing ain't that big. It's wide, but Ipaqs tend to be wide.

[clevewaterman]

As a new Treo 650 user, I can tell you that narrow width of the Treo allows for easy one hand operation. I didn't realize how useful one hand operation would be until I started doing it.

[ignar]

As a new Treo 650 user, I can tell you that narrow width of the Treo allows for easy one hand operation. I didn't realize how useful one hand operation would be until I started doing it.

Yes, one hand operation is really handy and addictive. I used to have a Treo 600, and one hand operation was the best feature I like about the Treo. It greatly improves the usability of the device.

As for 6500, I like it overall. I didn't like the thickness of Treo, and it appears this one is thin and flat. I find 240x320 screen of PocketPC often delivers more information than 320x320 screen of PalmOS does. So, I'm generally fine with 240x240 screen, but I'm concerned about how useful navigation on that resolution would be.
Also I wonder how much HP will want for this unit. I wish under $500, but I doubt it.

[R K]

On the other hand, the thumb board keys here look bigger than the Treo's, which will probably also help in one-handed operation.

[whydidnt]

I'd like it better if it was a little narrower. I'd be willing to put up with a little more thickness as a trade off. Previous posters are correct, that narrower devices are easier to use for one handed operation.

I still think 240 x 240 is going to be an issue. For those of you who disagree, try running EVERYTHING with the SIP open all the time, even items that don't require text entry. I tell you one of the biggest annoyances I have with the PDA2K is how often the soft keyboard pops-up taking valuable real estate, when I'm using the slide out keyboard. It's down right irritating.

[R K]

I tell you one of the biggest annoyances I have with the PDA2K is how often the soft keyboard pops-up taking valuable real estate, when I'm using the slide out keyboard. It's down right irritating.

If the soft keyboard keeps coming up, you may want to reset your device. I don't know whether it's a bug or a feature, but once you manually open the soft keyboard, it will automatically open up the next time you tap on any text entry field until a reset is done.

[Typhoon]

240x240 screen? No thanks.

I might have been excited by 480x480 ...

I was going to say the same thing! I think I will wait for a device like this w/480 x 480 resolution and the new Magneto OS.

[yslee]

I saw a 6500 NDA slide at an HP briefing yesterday.


Eh, now now, won't it be un-nice to reveal NDA slides? =P

[MitchellO]

I think that putting a 240x240 screen in a handheld these days is like going backwards. it is like the mistake palm made with the treo 600 and its 160x160 screen. When they quadrupled it to 320x320, it was sooo much better, and up with the times. HP should use a 480x480 screen, or at least a 320x320 screen to keep up with the treo 650.

I have the 4350 and would not want it to have only 240x240 to make it shorter. i'd rather ditch the keyboard, even though it is very handy.

Also, they really should include WiFi. then, with the better screen, it would be a killer handheld. They'd also be the only ones to have a handheld with 5 wireless technologies (bluetooth, wifi, GSM/GPRS, GPS, and dont forget IrDA!).

[Jonathon Watkins]

240x240 screen? No thanks.

I might have been excited by 480x480 ...

Agreed. Once you've tasted the higher resolutions, there's no going back.

[Jonathon Watkins]

As a new Treo 650 user, I can tell you that narrow width of the Treo allows for easy one hand operation. I didn't realize how useful one hand operation would be until I started doing it.

A fair point. Welcome Clevewaterman, good to have you around. :D

[jlp]

I tell you one of the biggest annoyances I have with the PDA2K is how often the soft keyboard pops-up taking valuable real estate, when I'm using the slide out keyboard. It's down right irritating.

Then try PHM PowerToys' (http://www.phm.lu/Products/PocketPC/PowerToys/) "The PHM Ext. Keyboard is an empty input panel you can use when you have an external keyboard connected (such as thumb, collapsible, foldable, wireless, ... keyboard) and do not want an input panel to take valuable screen estate."

It's located at the end of the page, just above "Versions history"

[Phoenix]

I think that putting a 240x240 screen in a handheld these days is like going backwards. it is like the mistake palm made with the treo 600 and its 160x160 screen. When they quadrupled it to 320x320, it was sooo much better, and up with the times. HP should use a 480x480 screen, or at least a 320x320 screen to keep up with the treo 650.

I have the 4350 and would not want it to have only 240x240 to make it shorter. i'd rather ditch the keyboard, even though it is very handy.

Also, they really should include WiFi. then, with the better screen, it would be a killer handheld. They'd also be the only ones to have a handheld with 5 wireless technologies (bluetooth, wifi, GSM/GPRS, GPS, and dont forget IrDA!).

Quadband GSM/GPRS, BT, GPS, IrDA. And don't forget EDGE! WiFi would indeed round it out!

And I agree with you. HP is so close with this one, in terms of getting everything right. Has anyone else heard that they're planning on coming out with a version with WiFi later on in autumn - Q3 sometime? The hw6700 is it? If that's true, that would be great news!

And yes, they should have at the very least increased the res on the screen (VGA preferably). I understand why they went with the square format, but although I think maybe I would have preferred to see the typical rectangular shape even if it meant lengthening the device a bit, we'll just have to wait to see how the new shape affects everything.


Add WiFi, a higher res screen, and change the MiniSD slot to a standard SD, and I think that device would be the most complete handheld in history!

Let's just hope the memory capacity is where it should be, and that the keyboard is backlit.


****************

On another note, does anyone know yet what kind of GPS chipset is in the 6500?

In GPS transceivers, (at least beginning in 2002) there was SiRFStar IIe, then IIe/LP, then XTrac, then XTrac 2, and now SiRFStar III (which now offers the best performance).

[powder2000]

OK, were moving forward in time not back. 240 x 240 is just plain unacceptable especially in a highend device like this. Take out the gps (thats what bluetooth is for), include wifi and include a 480 x 480 screen and you have a winner.

[Matt Kitchen]

I currently have a JAM which I am pretty much in love with right now. I probably could not be convinced to switch to another device until WM 2005 is on it. WM 2005 (Magneto) will be huge for one handed navigation and no Windows Mobile PPC will do one handed navigation really well until 2005 comes out.

All that aside, the device looks too wide for me ;)

[R K]

WM 2005 (Magneto) will be huge for one handed navigation and no Windows Mobile PPC will do one handed navigation really well until 2005 comes out.

I don't think that's true at all. Can you give me one good example of how WM2003SE can't be used for one-handed operation? The only thing missing from WM2003SE devices right now is a decent thumb board/keypad. The one on the PDA2K is retractable and so it prevents one-handed operation because you need two hands to slide the keyboard out.

[iPAQ_ace]

And yes, they should have at the very least increased the res on the screen (VGA preferably).

Add WiFi, a higher res screen, and change the MiniSD slot to a standard SD, and I think that device would be the most complete handheld in history!

Let's just hope the memory capacity is where it should be, and that the keyboard is backlit.


The screen that is being used in this iPAQ could have something to do with the fact that Sony is getting stingy and keeping their great displays for themselves. Bottom line being that HP is going to have to look for another or several display manufacturers. But yes I agree, the higher display would be nicer.

[homer999]

I must be in the minority but I think this thing is DOA. It is too wide, too big compared to the Treo, Jam and other new models coming out this year. A Blackberry killer? HP, have the boys in the lab completely erased your memory banks over the debacle called the h6315? If the unit is flawless and bug free it might be a competitor to the BB, but a dragon slayer? Doubt it.

And of course the other outstanding issues - wifi, 240x240 screen. The OS will probably be 2003SE, not Magneto. And I am sure HP will say that it will not qualify for an OS upgrade much like the 6315. So while other wireless devices come out later this year with Magneto, poor old 6700 will become obsolete in just a few months time. This thing sounds like the 6315 all over again. But with a faster processor. Yeah, like that will solve everything. :roll:

[Matt Kitchen]

WM 2005 (Magneto) will be huge for one handed navigation and no Windows Mobile PPC will do one handed navigation really well until 2005 comes out.

I don't think that's true at all. Can you give me one good example of how WM2003SE can't be used for one-handed operation? The only thing missing from WM2003SE devices right now is a decent thumb board/keypad. The one on the PDA2K is retractable and so it prevents one-handed operation because you need two hands to slide the keyboard out.

Absolutely. Please do not mistake my remarks here. I can go through contacts and dial a number very easily one handed. Also - maybe i should clarify that touching the screen for me doesn't classify as quality one handed operation - agreed this still can be done one handed but i don't want to keep touching the screen w/ my thumb in various places as then the hold on my device waivers. So if you like to touch your screen w/ your thumb and feel that it doesn't detract from the one-handed use of the device then i guess we can agree to disagree - but i know others feel the same way - hence the incarnation of dedicated hard buttons in 2005 to resemble WM Smartphone OS. Things like Send/Receive and change accounts in Messaging, creating New whatevers, not having to change my other hard buttons to have a button that accesses the start menu from the main screen, accessing a menu for any application, etc...

I guess i never thought how great 2005 would be until i actually used a SmartPhone and found out how wonderful the two dedicated hard buttons are...

Once again, not everyone will agree, but 2005 is enough to make me wait.

[R K]

:) I already knew that you thought that touching the touchscreen didn't count.

OK, an example of dialing a contact without touching the touchscreen and using one hand--this is only available on WM2003SE mind you, so WM2003 Phone Editions won't work this way.

1. Front the Today Screen, press the Contacts button.
2. Use the D-pad to scroll down to the person you want to call.
3. Use the D-pad to scroll down the the location (home, office, mobile).
4. Press the Action button.

An example of one handed dialing with a thumb board integrated Pocket PC Phone:

1. From the Today screen, start dialing the numbers on the thumb board. Pressing the Fn key is not needed here.
2. Press the SEND button.

I keep trying to tell people that WM2003SE has done a lot for one-handed usage on the Pocket PC Phone. Unfortunately, people just look at it and see that the interface is similar to WM2003 and just pass it off as a VGA/Landscape refresh of the OS.

If you want to throw another example at me of how WM2003SE fails for one-handed operation, I bet I can take care of it.

[Matt Kitchen]

heh, no, no i said dialing contacts one handed is fine

Read the last sentence of my first paragraph. Don't worry - after all of this, we will still be friends ;) (i do apologize though, as after re-reading i do find that paragraph to be rather jumbled, last time i write a post while eating a burrito)

[R K]

Well, you definately have a point that WM2005 will make it easier, but I still say that WM2003SE can do it.

I admit I was a little overzealous in my last statement, and there are limitations in WM2003SE, but I still say that all the essential functions are covered. I mean, if someone was to sit down and try to open the New menu, they'd probably have a second hand available for entering that new contact, or writing that new message, or making that new document.

[Matt Kitchen]

Agreed. Well at least we found some common ground there. Like i said before, after using a WM Smartphone I really began to look forward to 2005, because the dedicated buttons were so nice to have (well essential w/o a touch screen).

Well here's to the future and the present which we can still pleasantly enjoy.

[whydidnt]

Well, you definately have a point that WM2005 will make it easier, but I still say that WM2003SE can do it.

I admit I was a little overzealous in my last statement, and there are limitations in WM2003SE, but I still say that all the essential functions are covered. I mean, if someone was to sit down and try to open the New menu, they'd probably have a second hand available for entering that new contact, or writing that new message, or making that new document.

I think that is the issue. Try creating a "new" anything on the PDA2K without touching the screen, you can't do it because there is no new button. The soft buttons on the phone edition make a huge difference in ease of use. You also can't skip past a drop down list, the unit requires you to select something from the list before you can tab again to the next field.

Looking up information one handed is easy to do, it's entering information that causes issues. Since we have the keyboard, it would be great if we could actually use it without interacting directly with the screen.

[R K]

:D :) :D :) :D

[Matt Kitchen]

Looking up information one handed is easy to do, it's entering information that causes issues. Since we have the keyboard, it would be great if we could actually use it without interacting directly with the screen.

It is thoughts like this that give fodder for debates I have w/ some of my Mobile Tech peers as to whether or not touch-screens are a necessity and if there is a chance they will dissipate entirely from the convergent world...