iMate JAM vs. Samsung i730

[Chucky]

Well I think I am finally getting to the point where Pocket PC Phones are small enough and performance wise on par with most dedicated Pocket PC's. So now, which one to choose?

For me my options are limited, I want a small device so currently the only ones that fit my requirements are the iMate JAM and the yet to be released Samsung i730.

As far as the JAM goes, well there is a lot going for it. Nice form factor, decent specs (well considering I am currently using a iPaq 3870!) and quite a few very positive reviews. I'll have the money soon so its something I could have in my hands in the near future.

Then theres the i730, there is a lot going for this device - just look at the specs, 520mhz processor, wifi and a qwerty keyboard. However HTC (the makers of the JAM) are proven Pocket PC makers, simple - they make good Pocket PCs. I don't know much about the Samsung Pocket PC's.


So of course if anyone knew anything more about the i730 it would be all over the Pocket PC news...but I am more looking at those with past experience with Samsung. For starters, the phone is scheduled for first quarter 2005, most likely in Korea, is it likely that they will hit this date and if so how long would it be likely before I personally see the device in Australia. The second more important thing is the price, it is really quite a high end phone - by the time it comes out the JAM will be around $850AUD, I don't mind spending more for the i730 - but I don't want to spend much more.

The third thing is more aimed at the Aussies around here, the phone will (as far as I know) only be usable on Telstras CDMA-EVDO network...which is expensive, do any of the other major carriers have any plans to roll out (or use Telstras) CDMA network?


So cheers to anyone who can help me out, its a tough call, a good phone (JAM) that I can use with any of the major carriers or an awesome phone that will probably be limited to the most expensive carrier in Australia.

Oh, one more thing...my current phone has real bad GPRS...feels like the days of using 9600 modems, is this just simply my phone or in realistic circumstances is this what you get from GPRS?

[JD Silver]

I've been using the Samsung SPHi700, the i730 predecessor for the last while and have been quite happy with it. I also had poor quality service and data transmission rate using GSM, while my CDMA coverage here has been excellent. I get up to 120 Kbit data speeds, depending on signal strength and network traffic. So far, the i700 has performed very well, and Samsung did an excellent job combining a PDA with a phone.

Choosing between the iJam and the i730 should involve considering a few factors

1. Most important, which carrier is best for you. Here in Canada, GSM offered more interesting phones, but in the Great White North, I found the coverage to be poor. It doesn't matter how good the PDA/Phone is if you can't get a reliable connection.

2. Wifi and Bluetooth. The big question is: will the i730 actually show up on your carrier with Wifi? For Bluetooth, will it be only a stripped down version of the stack? For myself, I want my next PDA/Phone to have built in Wifi to allow me to use hotspots, and I want the Bluetooth stack to be fully implemented. You should investigate what capabilities the device will have as it will be used with your selected carrier. Don't assume the reviewed capabilities for the device will be present on that carrier. Case in point, Verizon supplies the i700 with WM2003 Phone Edition, while my carrier, Telus, only supports WM2002 Phone Edition. In this case, I figured out from PDAPhonehome.com how to upgrade to 2003.

No matter what, I have really enjoyed having a converged device. Bascially, it truly is a mobile office in the palm of your hand!

[Chris Spera]

In the States, the only carrier that might pick up the i730 would be VzW, and they are going to mess the device up. The BT stack will be stripped, and its unlikely that it will have WiFi at all. Any new device that they release will be EV-DO compliant, leaving WiFi out in the cold. VzW doesn't want you to have WiFi either because if you do, its unlikely that you will want EV-DO.

My experience with data speeds using 1xRTT hasn't been good at all. I got speeds equivalent to 14.4k and no better. It was a waste of time and money... GPRS has been MUCH faster for me, and very consistent, too.

I didn't like my i700 very much. It didn't have WiFi or BT, has a rotten processor, and is chock full of proprietary components. I suspect the i730 will be as well; but I haven't seen it yet. As VzW doesn't want users to transfer pictures or files via BT or WiFi, you likely won't be able to use a BT GPS receiver either, as it uses the same BT serial connection that file transfer does.

My advice, if you have decent Cingular or T-Mobile coverage in your area, go with the Jam. I think you'll be a happier person in the long run...

[Chucky]

Cheers guys. I actually had a chance today to play with a JAM, I must say I am very impressed, that coupled with the fact that over here in Australia we only have one CDMA-EVDO carrier I think I'll go the Jam.

[q-live]

In the States, the only carrier that might pick up the i730 would be VzW, and they are going to mess the device up. The BT stack will be stripped, and its unlikely that it will have WiFi at all. Any new device that they release will be EV-DO compliant, leaving WiFi out in the cold. VzW doesn't want you to have WiFi either because if you do, its unlikely that you will want EV-DO.

My experience with data speeds using 1xRTT hasn't been good at all. I got speeds equivalent to 14.4k and no better. It was a waste of time and money... GPRS has been MUCH faster for me, and very consistent, too.

I didn't like my i700 very much. It didn't have WiFi or BT, has a rotten processor, and is chock full of proprietary components. I suspect the i730 will be as well; but I haven't seen it yet. As VzW doesn't want users to transfer pictures or files via BT or WiFi, you likely won't be able to use a BT GPS receiver either, as it uses the same BT serial connection that file transfer does.

My advice, if you have decent Cingular or T-Mobile coverage in your area, go with the Jam. I think you'll be a happier person in the long run...




please dont say that because i am looking to leave tmobile and want to go to verizon and have been looking at the i730 since they ffff up the xv6600 by not putting wi fi........ i hope they dont make the same stupid mistake twice...... hell they all ready over charge they neeed to stop being greedy and put in a phone what people want. Now what i was told is that they wasnt gonna strip the wi fi out of it...... I HOPE THEY DONT

[Chris Spera]

If you go with Verizon, you're going to see a DRAMATIC jump in your bill. VzW is much more expensive than T-Mo.

[q-live]

yea i no but they have better service unlike tmo and their phones are more stabler

[Janak Parekh]

My experience with data speeds using 1xRTT hasn't been good at all. I got speeds equivalent to 14.4k and no better. It was a waste of time and money... GPRS has been MUCH faster for me, and very consistent, too.
Something is very wrong with your setup, then. I've had several 1xRTT devices, including both the i700 and i600, and have routinely gotten 90-100kbps performance, which is around twice the maximum GPRS can achieve. People have reported getting 300kbps or more with EVDO service.

I didn't like my i700 very much. It didn't have WiFi or BT, has a rotten processor, and is chock full of proprietary components. I suspect the i730 will be as well; but I haven't seen it yet.
Depends on what you define as "proprietary". Samsung totally loused up the camera and the sync connector, but when it comes to form factor and similar things, every Pocket PC Phone is "proprietary".

My advice, if you have decent Cingular or T-Mobile coverage in your area
That's the key requirement. I had a Pocket PC Phone on T-Mobile for quite some time, but ditched it due to poor coverage. While I get some limitations with my Verizon devices, I get fantastic coverage and bandwidth.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

Oh, one more thing...my current phone has real bad GPRS...feels like the days of using 9600 modems, is this just simply my phone or in realistic circumstances is this what you get from GPRS?
GPRS maxes out at about 40-45kbps. 9600 sounds slower than what you should get. It could either be a device problem, poor coverage, oversaturated cells or simple misconfiguration.

--janak

[MitchellO]

I have the Xda II Mini and it is fantastic. It is fast, tiny and does everything. I bought a Sandisk Wifi card for it and internet is great. GPRS on Optus is fast too. I often swap my Telstra SIM (for voice) with optus (for gprs).

I am sending this from my XDA Mini over GPRS from my boring yr11 maths class!

I paid $945 :D for my xda mini, which had a 256mb sd card as well, from an ebay retailer. The Sandisk SD wifi cost $130 from Harris Technology. All in AU$.

[aheald]

OK, from an Aussie point of view, I can offer both sides. I use an o2 XDA2Mini (same as JAM) and absolutely love it - and have sold a few i-mate PDA2k EVDO devices. The Samsung - sounds great, but has to get past Telstra approval...not an easy thing. The last Samsung PPC phone didn't get that far. Telstra are pretty thorough, so I wouldn't count on it appearing any time soon if at all.

1x & EVDO walks all over GPRS - I just wish the mini or JAM came in a CDMA version. Data rates on GPRS are at best 40kbps, whereas 1x is available anywhere you can get CDMA coverage and gets 90-130kbps on average. If you're in an EVDO area, you get 300-400kbps average, peak at 2.4Mbps. This even knocks the socks off WCDMA (3G). The EVDO footprint though is very small at the moment (I'm in Perth and it only gets about 5km out from the CBD). But a fall back speed of around 100kbps is nothing to complain about, and no doubt coverage will expand through 2005.

I sent a picture taken on the mini (1.3MP) today via e-mail and it took about a minute or 2 over GPRS to send - remember the 40kbps is only downlink, uplink is about 10kbps (configured for 4D1U, can also do 3D2U). 1x send is apparently not far off the downlink (I think I've heard figures of about 60-70kbps). The other thing is the issue of price - I know Telstra GPRS rates are relatively high for their GSM service (and so they should - it works better than the rest), but 1x/EVDO pricing (referred to as Telstra Mobile Broadband) leaves the rest looking like sharks. They've got a heap of capacity on the network and are finally trying to sell it properly. The only thing to stop someone not going CDMA is device choice (i.e. no mini sized PPC or Symbian devices) and international roaming - but if you're happy with the size of the PDA2k, I'd say get it.

I'm a bit annoyed the PDA2k EVDO version doesn't have wi-fi, whereas the GSM/GPRS version does - not sure if the carriers are conspiring on this...would have made data roaming a possibility with a CDMA phone by being able to use hotspots in the US, Europe & Asia (Telstra have wi-fi roaming agreements with T-Mobile) - unless you're willing to get the Sandisk WiFi SD card, you can't do it.

[aheald]

Oh, BTW, that XDA2Mini I have - it's for sale...AUS$900. Disks unopened, less than 2 months old! I'm actually swapping to a JAM, as Telstra haven't approved the mini so I can't put it on the right plan! I would be hard pushed to go to a bigger device, I used an HP1940 with SonyEricsson T610 previously and preferred this as I could slip the T610 in my pocket on weekends. But the mini/JAM makes this redundant! I've given the 1940 to my wife (a nurse - she thinks it's the best for work and of course playing solitaire). I've got to admit it's like looking at a plasma screen after seeing the mini screen all day.

I've set the mini up with Smartner Enterprise server, this leaves Blackberry for dead too as a push e-mail solution. And what other device can I sync with Windows Media player on the desktop to have all my WMA/MP3 files automatically loaded up? I love these phones!!!

The issue of Optus GPRS being better than Telstra GPRS, and the 1x only getting about 14.4kbps - definitely configuration issues. Getting 14.4 indicates packet data not setup, falling back to a circuit switched connection. I'd say same thing with Optus vs Telstra GPRS - he'd have the device setup for the Optus APN but not Telstra's, so not establishing a GPRS session when the Telstra SIM plugged in. Just need to add Telstra GPRS or run the auto-configuration tool for the network being used. It's one of the reasons that makes these devices so good, setup is so much simpler than a Symbian or a 'dumb' device.

[Chris Spera]

My experience with data speeds using 1xRTT hasn't been good at all. I got speeds equivalent to 14.4k and no better. It was a waste of time and money... GPRS has been MUCH faster for me, and very consistent, too.
Something is very wrong with your setup, then. I've had several 1xRTT devices, including both the i700 and i600, and have routinely gotten 90-100kbps performance, which is around twice the maximum GPRS can achieve. People have reported getting 300kbps or more with EVDO service.

I didn't like my i700 very much. It didn't have WiFi or BT, has a rotten processor, and is chock full of proprietary components. I suspect the i730 will be as well; but I haven't seen it yet.
Depends on what you define as "proprietary". Samsung totally loused up the camera and the sync connector, but when it comes to form factor and similar things, every Pocket PC Phone is "proprietary".

My advice, if you have decent Cingular or T-Mobile coverage in your area
That's the key requirement. I had a Pocket PC Phone on T-Mobile for quite some time, but ditched it due to poor coverage. While I get some limitations with my Verizon devices, I get fantastic coverage and bandwidth.

--janak

I agree that there's something rotten in the State of Denmark. I don't know why my 1xRTT speeds stink. There's no reason why they should, but they do. They have never been very good here in Nashville. I think its an issue with the Market, because I'm not alone... Its not just my device.

As far as everything else... perhaps it IS just a matter of market or YMMV. Thanks for the input Janak. I appreciate the help!