Geekzone Reviews the Toshiba e830

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?ContentId=3945' target='_blank'>http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.a...?ContentId=3945</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Toshiba have released the e830 Pocket PC device, the successor to the popular e800 Pocket PC. The e800 was the first VGA Pocket PC on the market and supported VGA even before Windows Mobile supported it. The e800 created a small cult following because of this and Toshiba are looking to expand on with the e830."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20050119-e830.jpg" /><br /><br />Geekzone have just reviewed the Toshiba e830, which I must say, appears to be a mighty fine device! Anybody thinking of making this their next purchase (if it's available in your region)? ;-)

[Vincent M Ferrari]

:soapbox:

I know it was a long time ago, but after I got my E330 and dealt with the horrible support and the all-but-lie about SDIO capabilities, I pretty much decided that at that point, I would not be dealing with Toshiba ever again. That unit cost me under $300. I can't even imagine sinking that kind of dough into a new PPC from them. I just don't trust them as a company anymore.

[shawnc]

You will also notice its size –like other VGA devices currently in the market it is quite large. In fact the Toshiba e830 is marginally taller than the HP iPAQ hx4700 as well as a few millimetres thicker.

They lost me right there. But I thought it was an excellent review.

[Gerard]

I played with a couple of e830s at our last user group meeting, and must say that it was difficult not to drool. Audio was killer. Screen awesome. Buttons... not so much. But the slimness factor, the comfort in my hand, was the clear point where I pretty much decided that next time I have the cash (a mere $550 Canadian) this is the unit to get. Unless of course something even better comes along first. With the mixed reviews I've seen on the hx4700, though largely not too shabby, I'd go for the Toshiba.

As for the customer support question; I've seen crap support from Casio, and good support from Casio. I've seen negligable support from Compaq, pretty sad support from Dell, and crap from Acer (my notebook). Why should Toshiba be any different? There is little honour among these manufacturers. They're under-paying the assembly workers, over-inflating retail cost, and pocketing as much money as possible. Support would cut into that severely. HP does seem to have a better record than most with their replacement policies at times or for a fee, and Casio did eventually try to do right by me with 4 replacement e800 units... though the fifth is a mess of hardware defects... But really, what I look for in a new PPC is features and apparent, hands-on sense of quality, not backing from the OEM.

[toml]

Didn't Toshiba announce a while ago that they were getting out of the PPC business? What's the deal, were they just trying to weasel out of supporting their old ones?

I and my wife have both been burned by Toshiba on PPCs, so no more of them for us. Best of luck to those who do try this new one.

[psohl]

I've recently bought one of these e830's and am having a hard time finding compatible hardware (gps, BT keyboard &amp; mouse, etc...) Is this device too new to be supported yet? Can somebody point me in the right direction?[/img]

[Vincent M Ferrari]

I've seen crap support from Casio, and good support from Casio. I've seen negligable support from Compaq, pretty sad support from Dell, and crap from Acer (my notebook). Why should Toshiba be any different?

...

But really, what I look for in a new PPC is features and apparent, hands-on sense of quality, not backing from the OEM.

Two points:

1. Toshiba's tech support is notoriously bad. I had a PPC and one of my sales reps had a Satellite. Trying to get any kind of help from them is a chore, and on the Satellite, we even purchased a soup-to-nuts service contract. Tough noogies. They just don't care.

2. I do like features. Features are nice. Features like SDIO support that actually is SDIO support (you know, so you buy a feature and get a feature?) is one I like. If you consider that "backing from the OEM" and it isn't important to you, then good on you. I for one would rather make sure the manufacturer isn't an overpromising under-delivering jerk before I plunk down $600 on a handheld from them for a second time, and I won't be stranded when something goes wrong with it.

[Menneisyys]

I adored the e800. It was really cool to have a VGA device back in Oct, 2003.

The e830? Definitely weaker screen than that of the hx4700 / Pocket Loox 720. And, a non-Widcomm/Broadcomm BT stack. They both are showstoppers for me.

[freitasm]

I've recently bought one of these e830's and am having a hard time finding compatible hardware (gps, BT keyboard &amp; mouse, etc...) Is this device too new to be supported yet? Can somebody point me in the right direction?[/img]

Interesting comment. As I played with the Bluetooth and Wi-Fi part for our review (Darryl did all the rest), I'll add...

First the Bluetooth on the Toshiba e830 doesn't support HID, so it rules out keyboard and mouse. But no other Pocket PC supports these anyway, without a third party driver.

As for GPS, the Toshiba does support serial ports, and you can actually configure as many as you like. You should be able to add serial ports and instruct the software to connect through these ports. If you have any problem I don't think is the Bluetooth, but the software. For the GPS, the Bluetooth serial is not different than a cable connection.

When configuring serial ports you can select one (or more) to be an ActiveSync partner (of course remember the configuration on the desktop side!)

It also supports OBEX FTP (file transfer) and headset profile. I've tried both and worked without a problem.

[Ripper014]

First off... I own a Toshiba e830... and so far I love the device. It has more features built-in for the money than any other vga device available that I am aware of. Definitely the best buy for the money... in Canada it is still the most inexpensive one available... yes at least $50 cheaper than that Dell x50V in most cases more.

The service issues can be a serious one... and I am not going to debate that they may have let some comsumers down with some of their older models... most specifically the e330 and e740 series... I do not have first hand knowledge of that. However... Toshiba has always been the leader in the PocketPC genre for pushing the envelope... dual wireless... vga... they have always led and everyone else followed. It would be a big loss if they left the market.

As of now... they have only left the US and British marketplace... for only reasons they can answer... I would also like to note in Toshiba's defence they are the only manufacturer to supply a wm2003SE update... though it was only for the e400/e800's it was more than any other manufacturer did.

The only serious flaw that I have found with my e830 is the BT Stack... and if there is a solution I would love more information on it... I have talk to Toshiba to the level of their engineers... and they do not have a solution for my BT issues... I was told that there MAY be a new release pending... So "Freitasm" I would love any input or if you can point me to some source material I would be grateful... I can't configure my BT to allow my GPS to work. I have talked to both Toshiba and Pharos the GPS's manufacturer... I have tried GPSgate to spoof it... and though it looks like it may be connected... there is no usable connection.

Like Gerard said... if you look at any thread someone feels that they have been wronged by the manufacturer and in my experience Toshiba has been as good to me as anyone else. 5 Replacement units... omg... I would give you back you money and tell you nicely to try someone else... we can not afford your business...

[Craig Horlacher]

I've recently bought one of these e830's and am having a hard time finding compatible hardware (gps, BT keyboard &amp; mouse, etc...) Is this device too new to be supported yet? Can somebody point me in the right direction?[/img]

Yeah, I've tried the hp and the thinkoutside folding bluetooth keyboards and $300.00 later - no luck. Other than that I love this.

I would never consider the hx4700 for three reasons, only 64MB of RAM, touchpad (Who was the moron that came up with that one?) and no jog dial. I'm still trying to figure out why so many like it. If the screen is really that much brighter than the e830 I'd go blind...my e830 screen is bright by my standards on the lowest setting and it drops jaws everytime I show it to people. One look at a month view with text in pocket informant does that. Highres video in betaplayer is just icing on the cake.

As far as the keyboard issue goes (I haven't looked into gps...still just using my laptop for that) I did get the "presentation pack". The vga out doesn't work - I didn't think it would since it was for the old ati chipset. The usb port works great though! So I use that for usb flash memory and it also works with any usb keyboard so I can just plug one in. I'm probably going to order either a rollup keyboard (thinkgeek.com) or a small usb keyboard I found on newegg for about $16.

btw...for the usb memory to work you do need a driver. It's unsupported - I found it on some brighthand thread. It works great! The package has three drivers in it I think. Only install the one for usb mass storage. Nothing will change on the e830, you may need to boot, I forget. Just plug in usb memory - or you can use an iRiver 40GB mp3 player if you have one (yeah, I can stream video off it!!!) and it shows up like a regular "disk". The 40GB drive does take a long time to come up if you select it under memory in the control panel.

[SteveHoward999]

You will also notice its size –like other VGA devices currently in the market it is quite large. In fact the Toshiba e830 is marginally taller than the HP iPAQ hx4700 as well as a few millimetres thicker.

They lost me right there. But I thought it was an excellent review.


Absolutely. It is positively ENORMOUS. And I am sure the extra couple of grammes would cause terrible wrist strain. What were they thinking of making this giant thing that could almost never fit in nearly anyone's hand.

[Gerard]

Ripper; I was dealing with the US VP for Casio's Mobile Devices division in that lengthy warranty festival. It took a few months to escalate to his level, so combined with my earlier experiences of Casio 'support' while I had an E-115 I had quite an adequate dose of weak enthusiasm from that company. But once Scott Nelson got me on the telephone things turned right around. He shipped me his personal EG-800 the day after we spoke, one he'd used for a month or so and felt sure would work. But it didn't, not really. Apparently he didn't really use it much, as it had fatal hardware flaws. Then he sent me a few more, all new, and all soon enough defective. Each time he sent me new ones before I sent the broken ones, which took only a little arm-twisting from my end.

So I guess that episode showed me that support can be turned around, with some persistence and a polite attitude. I did threaten them a little at one point, but doubt that was even picked up. And the replacements rather than a refund were Casio's call. I asked Mobile Planet for a refund, but they refused, forwarding me to Casio for help.

I realise tht many have been very frustrated with Toshiba's hardware and lack of proper support. I followed silently in many of the Brighthand and other forum threads, interested in seeing how Toshiba might resolve the various issues. Their devices are often quite interesting, though before the e800 the shells were so ugly that I just couldn't see actually buying one. Silly reason, but I find most PPC design to be incredibly ugly, and this is a factor in something one will be looking at for a couple of hours per day.

Sorry if I've offended anyone with my talk of support being poor all around. It's just what I've seen over the past 5 years, 4½ in the various forums, with pretty much all brands at one time or another. It would really surprise me to hear of a single device model which had not generated a lot of heat for the makers in forums. Some stand out more, like the HP 1910 with the non-I/O SD slot arguments stretching well over a year... or the new HP rx17xx models which seem to be such incredible dogs that users new to PPC are found in the forums within a week, screaming bloody murder about how this thing falls short of the advertising - and reviews mostly back this up. I'm just saying, Toshiba is far from alone in having a mixed track record with PPCs. People keep coming back to HP as being some sort of saintly company, but does no one remember all the many models with both serious hardware problems (backlights not working intermittently, spontaneous hard resets/white screens of death, etc.) and borderline criminal negligence in terms of support? Okay, that's pushing it a little, but the variou petitions have seemed to be good fodder for a BBB complaint.

[Ripper014]

Gerard I was just giving you a hard time... sounds to me that Casio gave you outstanding support.

As for the rest I agree... your mileage will vary with each manufacturer in regards to service. And Hp is not innocent in any of this... however... we must remember that Dell and Hp are North American companies that pump a lot of money into marketing... and unfortunately the masses do buy in. What we see is not always what we get... impression is not reality... and image is NOT everything...

As consumers we need to educate ourselves and take responsibility for our purchases... and be more informed about what we buy. Brand loyality is not a good way to select a product... and maybe it is time some of us realized that...

[Menneisyys]

If the screen [of the hx4700] is really that much brighter than the e830 I'd go blind...

Not necessarily brighter - just far more contrasty and saturated. Just better to look at (it's just like the 'loudness' circuitry or the tone settings for most people on Hi-Fi equipment - it may not be natural, still, most people prefer turning up the bass/tremble on their audio equipment).

The hx4700/Pocket Loox 720's minimal brightness level is around that of the iPAQ 2210 and is FAR below the Palm Zire 71. (The latter is almost useless in complete darkness without third-party brightness setter tools.)

[Menneisyys]

Yeah, I've tried the hp and the thinkoutside folding bluetooth keyboards and $300.00 later - no luck. Other than that I love this.

The e830 users over at Brighthand said (e.g. http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=110096 ) BT keyboards work flawlessly with BT CF cards with the e800/e830.

[PatrickD]

I have an e830 and I really like it so far. For me the touch pad and high price ruled out the 4700. Toshiba beat the x50v with a 4" screen, 128Mb ram, jog dial, and price. The USB host isn't bad either. The screen on the e830 is really nice. Although I haven't held them side-by-side, I have seen the 4700 in person, and I can't say I noticed a significant difference. Both have really nice screens. I think that if Toshiba hadn't pulled out of the US market, the e830 would have done well against the 4700 and x50v.

I have no experience with Toshiba customer support. I can tell you that I have an HP laptop I am not thrilled with. When I bought my Dell x5 a few years back I had a problem syncing. Dell's solution was to hard reset every time :( . Anyway neither one of these problems were severe enough for me not to consider HP and Dell again, but it does factor into the overall decision. It would be nice if companies started to realize that customer support plays a big role in customer satisfaction and brand loyalty. I hope Toshiba doesn't let me down.

[alizhan]

Absolutely. It is positively ENORMOUS.
I rather like the size. In fact, using the e800 really drove home just how small and uncomfortable more "mainstream" PDAs are. They could have made it smaller if they had wanted to (to wit, the Genio E). They chose not to, because they felt that this size matched their target market ("business user") better. It isn't as sleek or stylish as the competition, but I find it to be more practical.

And I am sure the extra couple of grammes would cause terrible wrist strain. What were they thinking of making this giant thing that could almost never fit in nearly anyone's hand.
It fits in my hand just fine, and my hands are not overly big (I usually wear size "medium" men's gloves). The only PDA I've held that felt better in my hand was the HP 2200, but the screen on that PDA is too small for my tastes.

Like anything else, I think that it's a matter of preference. Potential buyers should always try one before deciding.

[SteveHoward999]

I rather like the size.

I guess you missed my sarcasm. You had to see the message I responded to...

[alizhan]

Audio was killer. Screen awesome. Buttons... not so much.
Yep, the buttons sucked on the e80x, and it looks like they didn't improve at all on the e83x. Don't get me wrong: they work well enough, even if they could use a bit more travel. But whoever thought that the buttons should emit a piercing snap when pressed deserves to be repeatedly smacked.

This is the one glaring ergonomic flaw I've found with this PDA. The ergonomics otherwise are excellent.

As for the customer support question; I've seen crap support from Casio, and good support from Casio. I've seen negligable support from Compaq, pretty sad support from Dell, and crap from Acer (my notebook). Why should Toshiba be any different?
Exactly. I've gotten good support from Toshiba, and bad support from Toshiba. Same story with HP, Compaq, and Dell. The modern marketplace pretty much ensures that quality control and support will be less than ideal. It is more cost effective to let some defective devices make it to the consumer than to properly test them all beforehand. It is more cost effective to simply replace devices than try to fix them. And it is more cost effective to piss off and lose the occasional customer than to spend lots of money trying to solve uncommon problems.

Welcome to the disposable mass market--the ultimate expression of our own unyielding quest for the absolute lowest price.

Not trying to be a troll or anything, but I just don't understand people who blindly assert that they will never again buy from company X because of one bad experience. Have I been burned? Sure. And I'll get burned again. But I've bought enough equipment from enough companies to know that it's all pretty much a crap shoot. I don't think that any of the name-brand companies intentially produce a defective or unreliable device, or intentially offer crappy support. They're doing the best that they know how with the ever-shrinking profit margins they can wrest from the market. If we want better, we need to be willing to pay for it.

They're under-paying the assembly workers, over-inflating retail cost, and pocketing as much money as possible.
I disagree. HP was charging a premium, but that pretty much ended when Dell entered the market. The companies are all working on thin profit margins these days, cutting costs as much as possible to stay competetive. Providing support isn't free, and we as a group are unwilling to pay extra for our devices in exchange for it. Companies also have to somehow fund R&amp;D (to develop new devices), advertising (so you know about their new devices), and operational costs (salaries, facilities, machinery, etc.). The cost of a PDA consists of far more than just the costs of the physical bits it is made from.

Just look at the beating HP's support ratings have taken since they dropped their prices to see this principle in action. HP used to have the best support in the business, but their PDAs were more expensive. Now that they've had to cut costs to stay competetive with Dell and the like, support is suffering. This is the hidden cost of cheaper PDAs: we end up buying more of them because they break more often, and either can't or won't be repaired.

[alizhan]

I rather like the size.

I guess you missed my sarcasm. You had to see the message I responded to...
I couldn't tell for certain, no. Sorry.

[Vincent M Ferrari]

Not trying to be a troll or anything, but I just don't understand people who blindly assert that they will never again buy from company X because of one bad experience. Have I been burned? Sure. And I'll get burned again. But I've bought enough equipment from enough companies to know that it's all pretty much a crap shoot. I don't think that any of the name-brand companies intentially produce a defective or unreliable device, or intentially offer crappy support. They're doing the best that they know how with the ever-shrinking profit margins they can wrest from the market. If we want better, we need to be willing to pay for it.

That is absolute hooey, at least in the case of Toshiba and my dealings with them.

1. They marketed the E330 as an SDIO device. Not quite. It's SDIO as long as the SDIO device is Toshiba's Bluetooth Card. At the very least, they were deceptive. Frankly, I think they lied.

2. Their answer when I called them about the BT card (the Toshiba Bluetooth Card, mind you, not some other manufacturer) not working was to "hard reset the device." I did. It still didn't work. Their solution? No solution. No offer for more support. No transfer to a higher level tech. When I asked about it, he hung up. Lovely.

3. They never produced an update for that machine, and instead came out with a new E3 series.

I'm sorry, but that's enough bad experiences for one device to never buy from them again. That was a $300 handheld. I'd be damned if I'm gonna plunk down $600+ for another one from them.

Oh, and as you can see I've had plenty of Pocket PC's and Palms. Know how many bad experiences I've had? The ones you've read above, and that's all of them. In other words, the simplification that "all tech support sucks" or "all tech support is a gamble" is just outright wrong. Maybe if dealing with Dell, Audiovox, HP, Palm, etc. was like dealing with Toshiba, I'd think differently, but from experience they most certainly are not.

[jlp]

...

Just look at the beating HP's support ratings have taken since they dropped their prices to see this principle in action. HP used to have the best support in the business, but their PDAs were more expensive. Now that they've had to cut costs to stay competetive with Dell and the like, support is suffering. This is the hidden cost of cheaper PDAs: we end up buying more of them because they break more often, and either can't or won't be repaired.

The first iPaq was $499, now the hx4700 is a lot more at $650, that's about a 30% increase in price. Of course you get more features for this, but a) component prices get down when 1) part of the initial R&amp;D is paid off, 2) manufacturing quantities go way up, b) ongoing development allows for denser components (it's cheaper to make 1 chip that includes the capabilities of 3-4 than making those 4; and assembling just one component instead of 4 is faster, therefore cheaper)

The main difference between April 2000 and now is that you only had one ipaq then; now you have a whole range including entry level devices as well; it's those latter that yield thinner margins, not the 2700, 4100, 4300, 4700 and 5500 still sold today.

[Len M.]

I can think of only one unique feature that Toshiba PDAs bring to the table: they can function as a USB host. You could hook a 100 GB hard drive to an e740 or e750 and it works wonderfully. Now that HP dropped the PCMCIA expansion packs from the iPAQ line, no other PDA offers this kind of storage.

You'd think a review of the e830 would mention this, no?


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com
Home of PDAudio

[jlp]

USB Host can be very useful.

However the e830 is not the only PPC with USB Host:

The Asus MyPal a730 and a730w (same as Fujitsu Pocket Loox v70), as well as the Fujitsu-Siemens Pocket Loox 718 and 720 (different devices from the Asus/Fujitsu afore mentionned), also offer this feature.

In fact in 2002 the Casio Cassiopeia E-200 was the first PPC to offer this. And later the Toshiba e740, e750, e755 and e800 also had this feature.

And yes a review should point out this feature as well.

[Len M.]

Thanks for the correction.

I don't think that Fujitsu-Siemens Loox PDAs are distributed here in the US (though I could be wrong). And Asus, though it's distributed here, doesn't have much of a following yet.



Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com
Home of PDAudio