Handango forces developers to remove trial version - or customize it!

[The PocketTV Team]

Handango sent us several emails, threatening us to de-activate our products because we distribute a trial sofware that requires a free trial activation key provided only by us (the developer).

In order to comply, we will have to remove our Trial versions from Handango.

Handango is now enforcing some new rules that we feel will hurt their business, because they reduce the freedom of developers and in some cases, force them to lower the security and anti-piracy measures built-in their products, or to remove their trial versions from Handango.

We have always required an activation key (free, of course) in our freeware and in the trial versions of our commercial applications. This trial activation key is free and it allows us to disable some version of our trial software when we know that they can cause serious problems on some new devices. This was used in the past at several occasions. The free activation key is generated using a challenge-response algorithm and it can only be provided by us (the developer), not by Handango.

This is what Handango does not want. Handango does not allow a trial software to contain a link to the developer's website for trial activation, and they want the trial version to only provide a link to handango.com for purchase of the full product.

We can understand that when a trial version is downloaded from Handango, Handango would like the full product to be purchased from their website. And we always encourage people to purchase the full product from the site where they downloaded the trial version. And since the price of software are the same on all vendor sites, there is no incentive for the customer to purchase it somewhere else if they downloaded the trial from handango.

But I cannot believe that Handango is asking developers to remove their trial version because it has a link to the developer's website (e.g. for free activation of the trial version, which we do for a good security reason)!

I think most people at Handango have very little understanding of technical issues. I gave up trying to explain the technical issues to our contact at Handango. She just is not a technical person, and does not understand the notion of challenge-response code. This is oh so frustrating!

Basically, developers who want to have a trial version on Handango must now make a customized version of their software that contains only references to Handango.

If your trial version is the same as the full version, i.e. it just requires a key for full activation, then you must make a special customized full version for Handango, because it should indicate that the activation key can only be purchased from Handango (even if your product is also sold by other vendors).

This involves doubling the number of product released each time a new version is created.

We completely disagree with these new rules enforced by Handango, and we think that Handango:

1) has no business in telling developers what activation model to use, and in forcing them to use less secure activation models for their software.

2) should allow developers to provide a free trial version, regardless of the activation model they choose to use.

3) should not require developers to make customized "Handango" version of their applications or trial versions.

Because we do not want to reduce the strength of our activation method, we will have to remove our free trial version from Handango. How can this be good for them ? And naturally it is not good for us either!

Developers, what are your thoughts on this ?

[The PocketTV Team]

BTW this is also being discussed here:

http://www.msmobiles.com/f/viewtopic.php?t=8577

[Jeremiah]

PocketTV looks like you have some good friends over at msmobiles. First they post your ridiculous interview here (http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3373.html) where you accuse the advanced player BetaPlayer of theft, and then you post your personal trouble with Handango here which seems to be rewritten word by word on msmobile's frontpage (http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3499.html). Tell me, when you and msmobiles both refer to "We completely disagree with these new rules...", is it your opinion or that of msmobiles?

[The PocketTV Team]

> First they post your ridiculous interview here where you accuse the advanced player BetaPlayer of theft

This is offtopic, but for the record, the Betaplayer developer acknowledged that he used (or "borrowed") some code from other developers without properly acknowledging their copyrights. I believe Betaplayer now gives proper credit to all those opensource developers.

> Tell me, when you and msmobiles both refer to "We completely disagree with these new rules...", is it your opinion or that of msmobiles?

Is is our opinion, but apparently XXXXX from msmobiles agrees with us.

Note that Handango posted an answer on http://www.msmobiles.com/f/viewtopic.php?t=8577 where they basically deny the statements we made.

Since our statements are based on email received from Handango, I find this quite interesting, so we answered, and hopefully Handango will clarify their conflicting policies.

[Mona13]

I bought the Pro version quite some time ago. Will it work on my new Dell x50v?

Thanks.

[The PocketTV Team]

I bought the Pro version quite some time ago. Will it work on my new Dell x50v?
This is off-topic. PocketTV works fine on the Dell x50v, but does not yet take advantage of the hardware decoder.

We are currently working on a new version that will take full advantage of the 2700G hardware accelerator in the Dell x50v. We already have some code working, but nothing good enough for release yet. It should be available in a few weeks. You will be able to get a free upgrade, naturally.

[Jeremiah]

PocketTV has been off-topic ever since Betaplayer became available.

[The PocketTV Team]

PocketTV has been off-topic ever since Betaplayer became available.
ahah, very funny. that's your opinion, and it is off-topic in this thread. this thread was intended for discussion with developers, and regarding a particular subject with handango. if you want to contribute on this topic, please do it. if you want to start your own PocketTV bashing thread, you can do it too.

[Menneisyys]

I bought the Pro version quite some time ago. Will it work on my new Dell x50v?


If you need a highly x50v-optimized player, why don't you get BetaPlayer for the time the 2700g support is being developed for PocketTV? Supporting the 2700g natively, you can run your PDA at 208 MHz, which makes it possible watching even 5 hours of VGA movies with one charge. Check out http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=59008 on this subject.

[The PocketTV Team]

Menneisyys, thanks for the advice, but this is not the topic of this thread.

[Jeremiah]

Menneisyys I totally agree with you! Thanks for the link.

[Ripper014]

And I don't really see how this is applicable to the general public... clearly this is an issue between the developer and handango. If you do not like their policies... use another distributor. If enough of you become dedicated to a single re-seller... maybe you could get yourselves better service.

Not that I like Handango... but they are business people doing what they feel is best for them. If you do not like their policies... move your business. If people want your product... they will find it.

[The PocketTV Team]

> clearly this is an issue between the developer and handango.

This issue concerns all developers. Handango's policy applies to all developers.

> If you do not like their policies... use another distributor.
> If you do not like their policies... move your business.


Handango being in a monopolistic situation with no real competitor that share the marquet on equal footing with them, developers don't have this option.

You can read some interesting postings on this issue here:

http://www.msmobiles.com/f/viewtopic.php?t=8577#10755

> If people want your product... they will find it.

Most people discover products by browsing through vendors catalogs. Of course, if they already know a product, then they can find the developer's website. But most sales are made through vendors which market their catalog.

[Ripper014]

You as a developer helps to give them this power... they only have this monopoly because you give the power to do so. If developers decided to no longer support them and move their business to say... Pocket Gear..

They would no longer have a monopoly... as long as developers fear lost of sales... or buy into the proproganda.. you will continue to be at the mercy of these companies...

Every journey begins with the first step... if you are not happy change the direction of where you are going... sell your product soley through one re-seller... It is not like we do not know who PocketTV is.. I have been aware of you since my days with a Casio E-100... I do not see Handango doing much to promote software other than the top sellers anyway.

And as I said... does this really belong in a general chat forum... shouldn't you be discussing this in a developers forum somewhere...???

Oh... and I think that in the PPC world most software is found through word of mouth... including... boards like this... I believe that most people look for the best available software... and the best place to find what is the best... is to ask those that have used the software... How do you think a application such as Betaplayer has flourished... I am pretty sure they are not on Handango...

[Phillip Dyson]

I have to agree.
I'm not a developer. But what seems logical to me is for the developers to create some flavor of "union" to distribute their own stuff.
The only over head for the union would be operating costs.
I'm sure somewhere in the pool, there is the talent to build a retail infrastructure.

I as a consumer would be inspired to support it.

If the prices are reasonable, of course. :)

[The PocketTV Team]

> You as a developer helps to give them this power... they only have this monopoly because you give the power to do so. If developers decided to no longer support them and move their business to say... Pocket Gear..

> They would no longer have a monopoly... as long as developers fear lost of sales... or buy into the proproganda.. you will continue to be at the mercy of these companies...

> Every journey begins with the first step... if you are not happy change the direction of where you are going... sell your product soley through one re-seller...

I doubt you are a developer. If you were one, you would know that it is not as simple as you suggest. Yes, hypothetically speaking, if every developer were to pull their title from Handango (which will never happen), Handango would go bankrupt. But at the same time, the revenue of all those developers would be cut by half or reduced even more, because Handango is an enormous marketting machine and they create more than 50% of the developer's sales and revenues in most cases.

> And as I said... does this really belong in a general chat forum... shouldn't you be discussing this in a developers forum somewhere...???

Maybe, but very few developers look at the developer's forum, while most look frequently at this chat forum. This issue is also discussed in other forums and in the newsgroups.

> Oh... and I think that in the PPC world most software is found through word of mouth... including... boards like this...

This is true when you talk about the minority of "power users", i.e. Pocket PC fans (like you, since you read this forum) who know all those forums and use word of mouth. This group of people is important because they have loud voices and are very active. But in the global picture of mobile software business, unfortunately this is only a small percentage, a minority. Most people purchase software after seeing them in vendor catalogs.

> I believe that most people look for the best available software... and the best place to find what is the best... is to ask those that have used the software... How do you think a application such as Betaplayer has flourished... I am pretty sure they are not on Handango...

This is a freeware, and we are talking about commercial applications here, it's different. We don't have any problem distributing our freeware on Handango or directly, and like any good freeware, the distribution numbers are enormous.

Handango and other vendors distributes some freeware, but there are many other sites that distribute freeware, and the channels for "marketting" freeware are very different from the channels for marketting and selling commercial software.

The issues discussed in this thread are only about commercial software, which is the source of revenues for professional developers and for vendor companies.

[Ripper014]

Though this may be true today that Handango holds 50% of the market in handheld sales.. You have bought into the proproganda... though I am not a develpoer I have spent alot of years in sales and marketing... and I can tell you that as a client you hear what we want you to know.

The bottom-line is nothing will change unless you change it... and nothing speaks louder than action. It is fear that has developers underfoot not the business practices of a company. Rather than prostitute yourselves for sales... don't you think it would be better to give your product to a re-seller that will promote your product. Handango only got where they are because they got the support of the developer community.

The novice handheld owner has no idea who Handango is... he/she is still wondering why they can't buy software at the same location where they got their handheld unit.

Doing a search would bring up a number of re-seller sites... and they it is a matter of which they decide to choose.

I don't agree that most people buy from a catalog... for the cost of software... people will find those that they know with the most knowledge and seek their opinions... whether that be a friend... a family member... or a forum. I think Handango likes clients like yourself... that feel that without Handango they would have no sales...

By the way how are your sales trending over the last 5 years...???


As for Betaplayer... my point was that even without Handango's influence they have made a serious impact in your genre... regardless if it is freeware or not... in fact so much so that you felt the need to take a pot shot at them... My point is... if you have a good product... it will find its way to the customer. Customers are more informed now than ever before... If you have a good product people will know... and if you don't that gets out there pretty quick too...

[Sven Johannsen]

As I understand it, your process of requireing an individual to register to unlock a trial has little to do with security. It is so that you can collect and sell that information. That is not a supposition, that is stated in your privacy policy, if you dig around enough on your site to find it. I have no problem with Handango taking steps that will hamper your ability to sell personal information. I registered my free trial over three years ago and am still getting spam with "your friends at PocketTV thought you might like this..."

[The PocketTV Team]

> The novice handheld owner has no idea who Handango is... he/she is still wondering why they can't buy software at the same location where they got their handheld unit.

Maybe, but still the majority of the handheld owner who purchase software do purchase it from handango.

Note that only a small percentage of all handheld owners purchase software, since most are satisfied using built-in software and freeware applications.

> Doing a search would bring up a number of re-seller sites... and they it is a matter of which they decide to choose.

But the brochure in the box when you purchase the device will likely point to handango :)

> I don't agree that most people buy from a catalog...

Whether you agree or not, it's a fact (for mobile software).

> think Handango likes clients like yourself... that feel that without Handango they would have no sales...

I think most vendors are like us. We have discussed with many vendors, and most share this feeling (i.e. that Handango does bring a lot of sales).

> By the way how are your sales trending over the last 5 years...???

They have been increasing, in line with mobile market growth.

[The PocketTV Team]

> As I understand it, your process of requireing an individual to register to unlock a trial has little to do with security.

It allows us to disable particular versions that cause problems on some devices, or in which serious bugs are discovered. We have used this feature many times in the past.

> It is so that you can collect and sell that information. That is not a supposition, that is stated in your privacy policy, if you dig around enough on your site to find it. I have no problem with Handango taking steps that will hamper your ability to sell personal information.

You are refering to the personal information (i.e. email, type of device and software version) that we gather mostly when people register our freeware (and when they register the free trial version of our commercial applications).

Most of this information (99.5% of it) is gathered when people register the freeware, so we have no problem removing this registration process from the trial version. It will just remove that security that we have. But this is not what Handango is asking. Even if we do that, we don't comply with handango's policy because of our activation model.

> I registered my free trial over three years ago and am still getting spam with "your friends at PocketTV thought you might like this...".

We have not sold this list to anyone, but we do provide the right to use the list to some of our partners (e.g. PocketGear, Smartphone.Net) in full compliance with our published privacy policy.

We strictly respect the unsubscribe requests, so if you still receive mailing, it means that you have never unsubscribed. If you have unsubscribed and still receive it, let us know. We trace all the unsubscribe requests.

[Zidane]

Speaking from a developer's standpoint, I don't see what's so good about Handango. My software is available from them, but I only see upwards of three sales a day from them. On the other hand, I see the majority of sales from my own store and somewhere around five a day from PocketGear. The only reason I have Handango is because some countries aren't supported by my online store. So, to say that it is not feasible to do business without Handango is not necessarily a good argument to me as I am currently doing it.

In my experience, the best way to get your name around is to do some advertising. Working for a shareware company for the past few years has helped me out in learning ways to market my own PocketPC software, and I would say that I'm quite successful at it. Just treat your customers right and promote your software at sites like this and people will come. Handango doesn't need to have a monopoly on your sales.