MP3 Player For Pocket PCs... With Lyrics!

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.mycnknow.com/lyricsmagic.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.mycnknow.com/lyricsmagic.htm</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Lyrics Magic is the first MP3 player for Pocket PC that also plays song lyrics in time with the music. It also support to play Rmp, Mp2, Mpa, Ogg, Wav, Playlist(M3u, Pls) file. That You only need to do is to put the lyrics file(Lrc) into the same folder of music file and enjoy it."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20050114-LyricsPlayer.jpg" /><br /><br />Now <b>this</b> is what I call an interesting Pocket PC music playing setup. If you decide to try this out, let us know how it works! :)

[Jimmy Dodd]

Sweet summer sweet???

:roll:

[chefz]

Is it me or does that look a lot like GSPlayer? Is it a new version based off the same code, kind of like the different versions of Wisbar? The lyrics feature is an interesting idea though :) But for me I usually turn off the screen when I listen to music on my PPC anyway, so probably wouldn't use it all that much. :wink:

[capo]

some dance to remember, some dance to forgeet ;-)

[chefz]

I do love that song though! :mrgreen:

[drop]

I HATE karaoke. :bad-words:

[Vincent M Ferrari]

This oughta be big in dive bars in Japan, and people can sing Bad Bad Reroy Brown to it :lol:

[wocket]

[quote="chefz"]Is it me or does that look a lot like GSPlayer? quote]

Exactly what I thought!

Defo not a Karaoke fan but some are bound to like it....

[OskiO]

Makes you wonder how long it will be before someone figures a way to embed lyrics in the mp3 (or whatever) file. Suprised Apple hasn't jumped on this and thrown it in their ACC files.

C

[cgavula]

A lot of people seem to think that Apple created the AAC format, but they didn't AAC is a standard set outside of Apple. Anybody can get an AAC license and it isn't Apple that gets the money.

Formally, it is MPEG 4 - AAC set by the MPEG group. All Apple has done is apply their FairPlay DRM to files bought at the iTunes Store.

So Apple doesn't get to add anything to AAC files, it has to be done by the standards committee, of which I'm sure Apple is a big player just like Microsoft is. As a matter of fact the AAC standard is part of what's going into the new DVD specs (for movies - AAC will be the audio component if I remember correctly).

So if you want to add something to the AAC format, bug the standards committee, not Apple!

--Chris

[chefz]

Exactly what I thought!


I wonder if GSPlayer is an open-source program? Because really the more I look at it the more it looks the same. Here's a screenie of GSplayer on my device - the skin structure is almost identical - well, except for the lyrics window. All things being equal, I think I'll go for the free version and save $20 :roll:

http://www.spotted-dog-design.com/GSPlayer.JPG

[Janak Parekh]

Makes you wonder how long it will be before someone figures a way to embed lyrics in the mp3 (or whatever) file.
The MP3 format doesn't allow for that much textual information inside of the song. In fact, I don't think any popular digital music format does.

--janak

[feo]

:| They should have named the application something else and I am sure they would get more sales... :roll:

Pocket Kareoke
Kareoke on the Go
Mobile Kareoke

I hate kareokee too... (so I can't sing... :roll: )

[pepegg]

Exactly what I thought!


I wonder if GSPlayer is an open-source program? Because really the more I look at it the more it looks the same. Here's a screenie of GSplayer on my device - the skin structure is almost identical - well, except for the lyrics window. All things being equal, I think I'll go for the free version and save $20 :roll:


It is a lyrics extended GsPlayer there is no doubt at all. GsPlayer is open source, or at least it used to be. So it looks like some Smarty Joe expects to make money out of other people work, really nice!

I hope GsPlayer is GPLed or protected by some license in order to keep this from happening. And if it isn't and this will just go on, I think that PPCThoughts shouldn't collaborate and act by removing the news item or something.

As much as I like the idea of havin a lyrics enabled MP3 player, which is great, and even better if it builds on a great software such as GSPlayer, charging money for other people's work is totally immoral :(

[pepegg]

Makes you wonder how long it will be before someone figures a way to embed lyrics in the mp3 (or whatever) file.
The MP3 format doesn't allow for that much textual information inside of the song. In fact, I don't think any popular digital music format does.

--janak

I think that you're wrong. ID3 tags version 2.0 and up can include any textual information, lyrics too of course.
But I'm not sure if there is a standard space for lyrics, or if each program has its own format for this. The result would be that lyrics stored with a Winamp plugin wouldn't be readable with Windows Media Player for instance, and inverse.

[OneAngryDwarf]

I love this idea for both PPC and desktop but I must act the practical question... where does one find these lyric files... is there some large database available w/ them... I used to look up lyrics on a great site a long time ago and Sony sued and shut them down so I'm guessing these files probably aren't very easy to find but if they are... then Lucy, you've got some downloanin to do

[Janak Parekh]

I think that you're wrong. ID3 tags version 2.0 and up can include any textual information, lyrics too of course.
But I'm not sure if there is a standard space for lyrics, or if each program has its own format for this. The result would be that lyrics stored with a Winamp plugin wouldn't be readable with Windows Media Player for instance, and inverse.
Ah, right. I forgot ID3v2 allows for lots more info. It would make sense to stuff lyrics in there in a standard format, wouldn't it? I'm sure someone somewhere has proposed a standard, but it probably got dropped.

--janak

[HGLR]

There are several ways to embed lyrics in an MP3, dating back quite a few years. An old Winamp plugin popularized a LYRICSBEGIN/LYRICSEND chunk that appeared right before the ID3v1 tag at the end of the music. It has since been expanded as part of ID3v2 into the Lyrics3v2 tag.

Check out http://www.id3.org/lyrics3.html for more info.

[NLS]

Sweet summer sweet???

:roll:

my thoughts exactly :)

[Dermot81]

Ya looks just like GSPlayer

[s_kates81]

Exactly what I thought!


I wonder if GSPlayer is an open-source program? Because really the more I look at it the more it looks the same. Here's a screenie of GSplayer on my device - the skin structure is almost identical - well, except for the lyrics window. All things being equal, I think I'll go for the free version and save $20 :roll:


It is a lyrics extended GsPlayer there is no doubt at all. GsPlayer is open source, or at least it used to be. So it looks like some Smarty Joe expects to make money out of other people work, really nice!

I hope GsPlayer is GPLed or protected by some license in order to keep this from happening. And if it isn't and this will just go on, I think that PPCThoughts shouldn't collaborate and act by removing the news item or something.

As much as I like the idea of havin a lyrics enabled MP3 player, which is great, and even better if it builds on a great software such as GSPlayer, charging money for other people's work is totally immoral :(


I m absolutely agreed.This is GS Player 1000%,just adding the lyric functionality.It's really worse to seeing someone hacked the great GSPlayer and trying to make money of someone's else work.The original author didn't charge a penny for it,then who's this charlie who comes out and claims money for it. :devilboy:

[jkendrick]

While I don't condone using GPL code in commercial products it is a common misconception that GPL code means any and all future work based on GPL code must remain free. The GPL sets the ground rules for distribution and credit for the original author but it does not state that future work must be without cost. The GPL even allows anyone to provide the original GPL version and charge for the media on which it is distributed or even charge you for the download. The GPL allows anyone to take the original program and charge for supporting it, for example.

Again, I do NOT condone this but I hear comments all the time that GPL code is by rights free and even if a programmer takes that code and adds functionality to it they must provide it to everyone for free. It just doesn't work that way.

[Janak Parekh]

Again, I do NOT condone this but I hear comments all the time that GPL code is by rights free and even if a programmer takes that code and adds functionality to it they must provide it to everyone for free. It just doesn't work that way.
Right - it's widely misunderstood. RedHat sells commercial versions of Linux (RedHat Enterprise Linux), and only the purchaseable version of the software is installable. Yet, if you want the source, you can download it free from their site -- good luck compiling it though (i.e., they profit from the assembly of the source, not the source itself). GPL is not a barrier to selling things, so long as the source is provided.

That said, I just downloaded the latest source for GSPlayer, and there is no LICENSE file embedded in it. In theory I believe this means the original author retains all distribution rights, but I'm not quite sure since he's distributing it for free. :? If a lawyer wants to interpose, be my guest. Hopefully the author of this lyrics variation contacted the original developer of GSPlayer and asked -- if it's either public domain or BSDlike, then it's 100% legal to embed it in a closed-source, commercial application with no obligation to redistribute the source. If it's GPL, the lyrics version can be sold, but the source must be obtainable upon request.

The author of this version submitted as news -- I'll shoot him/her an email and see what they say.

--janak

[jkendrick]

I'll be interested to hear his/her response as well. If the original author has no license that he supplies in the distributables I am pretty sure he retains all rights. He's free to give it to anyone he wants but that doesn't mean the people he chooses to give it to can then turn around and redistribute it.

Even if the developers of this new similar version asked permission it is still bad form to not publicly give the GSPlayer developer credit.

The GPL misconception is one that I caught a lot of grief over when PPC Tools agreed to host the MyVGA program. People even ranted that since it was GPL code we were "violating their rights" by asking them to register to download the code for free! That was a real mess.

[pepegg]

That said, I just downloaded the latest source for GSPlayer, and there is no LICENSE file embedded in it. In theory I believe this means the original author retains all distribution rights, but I'm not quite sure since he's distributing it for free. :? If a lawyer wants to interpose, be my guest. Hopefully the author of this lyrics variation contacted the original developer of GSPlayer and asked -- if it's either public domain or BSDlike, then it's 100% legal to embed it in a closed-source, commercial application with no obligation to redistribute the source. If it's GPL, the lyrics version can be sold, but the source must be obtainable upon request.

The author of this version submitted as news -- I'll shoot him/her an email and see what they say.

--janak

Sorry Janak you are wrong again. GSPlayer is GPLed, I just checked it.
If you download it from the author's site (http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA032810) you'll see how it comes with GPL in the distribution zip.[/url]

[pepegg]

The GPL misconception is one that I caught a lot of grief over when PPC Tools agreed to host the MyVGA program. People even ranted that since it was GPL code we were "violating their rights" by asking them to register to download the code for free! That was a real mess.

All right, let's avoid an off-topic discussion about GPL, I have a lot to learn in that area ;) ...
But just one question sorry, doesn't GPL specify that modifications made to sources and published (for free or for a fee) must give credit to the original author? And even more, the original author must bless with his permission under certain circumstances?
I don't see that in Lyrics Magic site. All I see is they're trying to sell all the features of GSPlayer as their own, I mean, like if they had been working hard for the last 12 months to bring them all up. No credit at all....

[jkendrick]

They have to give credit in the distribution package and make the original work available for download.

[Craig Horlacher]

I haven't seen any comments on if this really works. Does it show the correct text at the right time? It seems like this would be hard to do. Is it hard to setup the lyric files? If not I don't see how it would keep the lyrics and the music in sync.

[feifei2002]

It work very well. There is a sample mp3 file and .lrc file in the author's website.

Mp3 file: More than I can say(Mp3 file, 2.79MB) (http://www.mycnknow.com/download/MORETHANICANSAY.mp3)
LRC file: LRC file 1.91k (http://www.mycnknow.com/download/MorethanIcansay.lrc)

You can try it.

These days I am busy finding more .lrc file for my mp3 file.

[Janak Parekh]

Sorry Janak you are wrong again. GSPlayer is GPLed, I just checked it.
If you download it from the author's site (http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA032810) you'll see how it comes with GPL in the distribution zip.
Actually, I had only checked the source distribution -- the irony is that the author of GSPlayer is putting the license file in the wrong place.

They have to give credit in the distribution package and make the original work available for download.
Not just the original work -- any modifications to the original work as well, including those that are linked or compiled to the original work.

Anyway - I'm in contact with the author - I'll let you know when/if there's a clarification I can make.

--janak

[TomB]

Feifei2002, glad to hear it worked for you. I tried it when the story was first posted and the MP3 sample they provide worked OK, but I kept getting an error that the text file had to be in the same folder (it was - but was never recognized. I still have it loaded on my HP1935, can you tell us exactly where you placed the files? I was just going to write it off as non-working...

[feifei2002]

I have put the .lrc file and mp3 in the same folder and the same name. For example: 1.mp3 and 1.lrc .

.Lrc format is not the common lyrics file. It contains the time and lyrics.
It seems like that:

[mm:ss.xx] &lt;mm:ss.xx> word 1 of line 1 &lt;mm:ss.xx> word 2 of line 1 &lt;mm:ss.xx> ... last word of line 1 &lt;mm:ss.xx>
[mm:ss.xx] &lt;mm:ss.xx> word 1 of line 2 &lt;mm:ss.xx> word 2 of line 2 &lt;mm:ss.xx> ... last word of line 2 &lt;mm:ss.xx>
...
...

I always do the .lrc file by myself. I use the LRC Editor to do it.
Fortunately the website of lyrics magic also provided LRC Editor to download it (http://www.mycnknow.com/LRCEditor.zip).

And you can use some PC software to download the .lrc file, such as Minilyrics (http://www.minilyrics.com) or Lyrics II, etc.

[jlp]

It work very well. There is a sample mp3 file and .lrc file in the author's website.

Mp3 file: More than I can say(Mp3 file, 2.79MB) (http://www.mycnknow.com/download/MORETHANICANSAY.mp3)
LRC file: LRC file 1.91k (http://www.mycnknow.com/download/MorethanIcansay.lrc)

You can try it.

These days I am busy finding more .lrc file for my mp3 file.

When you find a nice rest post please inform us about it, ok?!

[feifei2002]

I find a good site can get every .lrc file. But it is in Chinese. You can try it.
http://www.51lrc.com

[feifei2002]

hey, the website of lyrics magic provide the .lrc file search function!
Please see the url: http://www.mycnknow.com/lyricsmagic.htm

[feifei2002]

Against All Odds (http://211.147.232.187/songs/1.rar)
A Time for Us (http://211.147.232.187/songs/2.rar)
Beauty and The Beast (http://211.147.232.187/songs/3.rar)
Casablanca (http://211.147.232.187/songs/4.rar)
Don't Cry for me,Agentina (http://211.147.232.187/songs/5.rar)Scarborough Fair (http://211.147.232.187/songs/6.rar)
Auld lang syne (http://211.147.232.187/songs/7.rar)
Do-Re-Me (http://211.147.232.187/songs/8.rar)
Everything I do do it for you (http://211.147.232.187/songs/9.rar)
I just called to say I love you (http://211.147.232.187/songs/10.rar)

[fullmoon11]

Sorry Janak you are wrong again. GSPlayer is GPLed, I just checked it.
If you download it from the author's site (http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA032810) you'll see how it comes with GPL in the distribution zip.
Actually, I had only checked the source distribution -- the irony is that the author of GSPlayer is putting the license file in the wrong place.

They have to give credit in the distribution package and make the original work available for download.
Not just the original work -- any modifications to the original work as well, including those that are linked or compiled to the original work.

Anyway - I'm in contact with the author - I'll let you know when/if there's a clarification I can make.

--janak

Ok, coming into a conversation long after it is dead, but I am curious if you got anywhere with the GSplayer author. As I understand GPL, any derivative software can be made and sold, however the GPL must accompany it and hte source must be made available, allowing anyone else to recompile the software with changes. The author can sell or give his original product to another developer himself, since he owns the license. Did he authorize this otherwise it is considered stolen and he can either force Lyrics Magic to release the source or stop distribution and collect damages.

Also the gpl should be with the source, since that is what is copied.

That being said, I think Lyrics Magic is useless because it requires the lrc files, which I don't have time to generate. Instead I've used Zortam to download lyrics into the id3 v2 tags of my mp3 files, this displays on WMP and other programs. Lyrics Magic does not display this data. I am trying to get Mortplayer and GS player to display this data, as well as others. Anyone aware of a ppc app that can display embedded lyrics from an id3 tag?

[sto-helit.de]

Regarding the license: It's not only code from GSPlayer, but also the MP3 decoding from Underbit (MAD). If he really sells a player based on GSPlayer, he has to pay fees to Underbit (MAD has multiple licenses, GPL only for free software) and maybe even Fraunhofer (MP3 format).

As I understand GPL, any derivative software can be made and sold, however the GPL must accompany it and hte source must be made available, allowing anyone else to recompile the software with changes.
Right.

The author can sell or give his original product to another developer himself, since he owns the license.
He doesn't own the license (that's property of FSF), but the copyright of his source. In this case, this isn't the full product. But as the MAD example shows, it is possible to sell GPLed code for commercial products with a different license.

Did he authorize this otherwise it is considered stolen and he can either force Lyrics Magic to release the source or stop distribution and collect damages.
At least in theory. I think it'd be quite complicated and expensive to enforce the rights from a person that probably even lives in another continent...

I am trying to get Mortplayer and GS player to display this data, as well as others.
I've got it on my "to do" list for MortPlayer, but don't expect it before fall. First I want to release the next update (which also requires a lot of related work - new documentation, homepage update, updating sites like pocketgear or handango, new source archive which is compilable for other people, ...). Then I have to do some work to make the playlist a "multi purpose area" that also can display CUE (another "to do") and/or lyrics information - otherwise all old skins would stop to work or handling would become cumbersome and ugly (e.g. dialogs similar to the error list). And last not least the many different lyrics formats will cause quite some work, too. Though .lrc currently isn't on my list, in spite to ID3V2 (which is 4 different formats in itself, because it splits in synchronized and not synchronized and there was a major break in ID3V2 format at V2.3) and LyricsV3.

[fullmoon11]

Glad to hear it is on your to do list. I've been trying to get a workable solution for lyrics on the pda, that also works on my other computers. The id3 file seems to make the most sense, and for practicality, whatever format is readable by windows media player, musicmatch, etc is the one people should focus on.

I don't like the lrc files in Lyrics Magic, and based on what I've seen so far they will not be around for long (they don't seem to have a lot of sales and I don't think they have the rights to their base code) If anything they might end up giving the software away for free.

Realistically, they could offer a service that syncronizes lyrics for their software, but then they run into copyright issues.

Right now I have both Mortplayer and GSplayer on my pda, but I admit I use Mort the bulk of the time. (interface wins out). I've had to play with the buffering to get it to work smoothly with my 4gb cf microdrive, apart from that it is awesome. Hope to see some progress this fall.

On the pc front, I'm hoping the media portal (open source htpc/windows based app) group gets their lyrics plugin smoothed out (for storing and potentially syncronizing). it woudl be great if their format and what you get mesh together.