Microsoft Phasing Out Pocket PC And Smartphone... Brands! [Archive]

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Ed Hansberry

01-07-2005, 01:00 AM

<a href="http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/01/06/HNmicrosoftphaseoutpocket_1.html">http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/01/06/HNmicrosoftphaseoutpocket_1.html</a> When I read the headline all I saw was "CES: Microsoft to phase out Pocket PC, Smartphone" and thought "What in the world...?" 8O Turns out it is just the brand names though. "Microsoft is gradually phasing out its Pocket PC and Smartphone brands in favor of an overarching Windows Mobile brand, a company representative said Thursday. In the past 18 months, Microsoft has already been pushing the Windows Mobile brand more than the individual Pocket PC and Smartphone names. Over the next year or two, the product category names will be completely phased out as the technologies merge, said Scott Horn, a senior director in Microsoft's Mobile and Embedded Devices group in an interview at the International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas." I will be glad to see the products merge. Small square screens in a flip phone design. Is it a Pocket PC or a Smartphone? Who cares? It should also go a long way to eliminating confusion about what device can do what, assuming Microsoft merges the functionality as well. And for the first time in 4 years, I think MS is moving towards shorter names, getting rid of "for Pocket PC Phone Edition" and similar trailers. :wink:

JonnoB

01-07-2005, 01:08 AM

Well, Jason has already registered windowsmobilethoughts.com so why not just migrate this site to there? In the end, I see where smartphonethoughts.com and this site are combined....

liquidblaze

01-07-2005, 01:17 AM

dont forget tabletpcthoughts.com ;)

jason is just waiting for Tablet PCs to gain more market share...

MS Mobiles

01-07-2005, 01:53 AM

Well, Jason has already registered windowsmobilethoughts.com so why not just migrate this site to there? In the end, I see where smartphonethoughts.com and this site are combined....

I wanted to ask the very same question :lol: but you were first 8) !

However one remark: "Windows Mobile" is a registered trademark and Microsoft will not allow to use it in Internet domain name - I had some talks about topic of Internet domain names with MS folks arleady. So probably Jason will have to invent some other name. I don't even dare to propose anything... anybody?

anyway the fact is one: Pocket PC very soon will no longer be known as such and many people will not recognize it as platform or brand.

orol

01-07-2005, 02:00 AM

well, the thing is that Microsoft Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition for Smartphones is kinda long name :) bud I don't thing it's going to be shorter :)

Microsoft tends to use long names => Microsoft Windows XP Tablet Edition with Service Pack 2, Microsoft Office XP Professional Edition with Frontpage for Developers, to name a few:)

OSUKid7

01-07-2005, 02:13 AM

marcm

01-07-2005, 03:08 AM

Hmm... I like the name "Pocket PC" I'll miss it... :cry: :wink: :lol:
Well, I think I'll beat you ALL at your endless names... I invented a new one: Windows Mobile for Pocket PCs 2003 Second Edition Revision 2 with Enhanced Pocket Internet Explorer and MSN Messenger Service Pack 2 BEAT THAT!!! :twisted: :lol:
Well, at least it's good that they aren't completely phasing out Pocket PC and Smartphone, as Ed thought earlier... :D

Darius Wey

01-07-2005, 03:12 AM

Well, Jason has already registered windowsmobilethoughts.com so why not just migrate this site to there? In the end, I see where smartphonethoughts.com and this site are combined....

If Pocket PCs and Smartphones ever merge to become the unified mobile device, then maybe... You never know. We'll see how events unfold within the next few years. ;)

Skitals

01-07-2005, 04:21 AM

Foo Fighter

01-07-2005, 05:15 AM

Well, Jason has already registered windowsmobilethoughts.com so why not just migrate this site to there?

He also registered palmosthoughts.com. 8O

No...not really. Just wanted to give Ed a cerebral hemorrhage. 8)

WyattEarp

01-07-2005, 05:43 AM

I think it doesn't really matter what they call it because Microsoft still hasn't thought of a catchier name than "Palm" which has become more synonymous with PDAs than Pocket PC could ever be. Just my 2 cents.

Menneisyys

01-07-2005, 08:05 AM

However one remark: "Windows Mobile" is a registered trademark and Microsoft will not allow to use it in Internet domain name - I had some talks about topic of Internet domain names with MS folks arleady. So probably Jason will have to invent some other name. I don't even dare to propose anything... anybody?

"MobileWindows"? :) See the example of CEWindows.net (versus WindowsCE).

Menneisyys

01-07-2005, 08:06 AM

Jonathon Watkins

01-07-2005, 10:54 AM

OK, I can see the point of this. Should be interesting to see how it works in practice though.

Ed Hansberry

01-07-2005, 01:30 PM

surur

01-07-2005, 02:57 PM

The name pocketpc will never die. MS may want to kill it, but its short, descriptive and to the point.

Btw, I actually think this is MS's way of killing smartphones without admitting it. Most of the latest must have devices were pocketpc phone edition, and the new OS will be adopting the one-handed usage lessons leaned from there.

And this cant happen soon enough. The pocketpc universe is small enough already to further split developers and users into incompatible groups.

Surur

cdub

01-07-2005, 03:15 PM

There is no way this will happen in the next 2-3 years. (this being Smartphone and Pocket PC merging, who cares what they are called). It seems to be the way things are headed, but it would never work. This is why MS released the Smartphone to begin with. There is some logic behind my madness, if you are interested you can read what I have to say here (http://www.connectedmobiles.com/index.php?articleid=47).

i read the logic behind your "madness" and i have to agree 100%. the pocket pc and smartphone shells are very different from one another and i think microsoft would be hard pressed to come up with one shell that would make it easy for developers to target all of the various form factors of pocket pc's and smartphones.

btw, i'm new to the site. i've been getting the pocketpcthoughts newsletter for a while but finally decided to jump in on the forums. hello everyone!

chris

Ken Mattern

01-07-2005, 03:18 PM

cdub

01-07-2005, 03:34 PM

Merging the devices sounds great for those who need both devices. But what about the individual who does not want or need a mobile phone? There is still much more area in the United States alone that does not have mobile phone coverage. I hate to pay for technology that I will not use just to get something that I will use. I want a Pocket PC without a telephone.

What ever happened to the days when all you used a telephone for was to talk to someone else?

have you seen the motorola A780? flip phone/pda that runs linux with a touch screen and a stylus. the important thing is that it's a phone first and a pda second. i think this is where things are going in general with phones/pdas and microsoft may just phase out smartphone and have something like pocket pc phone edition as their single preset windows mobile platform. the linux phones will start being released in the US this year and will definitely shake things up a bit. nevertheless, i think we'll see a continuation of the merging of the phone/pda form factors with an emphasis on being a phone first and foremost (the smaller hardware of a phone is just more appealing to most people and having one device sounds nice to me).

possmann

01-07-2005, 05:28 PM

actually I'm glad they are moving to one name - hopefully one platform too....

surur

01-07-2005, 05:32 PM

By selling phone edition devices the OEM's, who currently have a large part of a small PDA pie, get to have a small part of a very,very big cellphone pie. There is no reason why they should NOT attempt to get there, without directly competing with Nokia and making a low margin cell phone. If you think about it, the HP 6315 is HP's first phone (besides the dead 928). Since when did HP make mobile phones? But they are now, and Im sure they are very glad to get a decent profit from a booming market.

In the end, this is all part of the cell phone consuming all devices. Wait for the Ipod and the camera to disappear in its maw in the next 2-3 years.

So yes, soon you will only have pocketpc phone edition devices, because thats were the money is . Look at PalmOne, who is abandoning the handheld line to concentrate on their darling, the Treo. Its only one device, but its making 50% of their revenue. Within two years, if Palm is still around, I bet you will only be able to buy it in a phone.

So the market is moving, and its moving towards cellphones. The margins are higher with pocketpcphone editions, as they have more functionality one can charge for. Look out for the Dell ppcphone coming soon (Im sure).

Surur

Deslock

01-07-2005, 05:34 PM

What is this, the 5th name change? Actually, as we all know, the Windows Mobile name isn't new, but this is interesting:
I will be glad to see the products merge. Small square screens in a flip phone design. Is it a Pocket PC or a Smartphone? Who cares? It should also go a long way to eliminating confusion about what device can do what, assuming Microsoft merges the functionality as well.
Merging the functionality aint gonna happen. Just dealing with all the issues moving to VGA on PPC has been a headache... the majority of my 3rd party apps have display problems and many apps don't utilize VGA at all. Imagine how much fun merging PPC and smartphone would be: the interfaces are different, resolution is different, smartphones don't have a touchscreen, the software isn't compatible, never mind throwing multiple screen-aspect-ratios into the mix.

I think this is just a marketing name change... however, since some see a merge coming, what happened to PPC being data centric and smartphones being voice centric? From previous threads:

So now PalmSource heads down the path Microsoft blazed back in 1999 when they realized that the MS SmartPhone OS, then called Stinger, couldn't be a Pocket PC stripped down. It had to start fresh, building a UI that was familiar to Windows and Pocket PC users, but 100% dedicated to a voice centric device. PalmSource's phone OS will build off of the core from OS 6 (which will be renamed) much like Microsoft's software starts with Windows CE, but the end result will be quite different. Different enough, I suspect, that a new software market will have to be developed just as Microsoft has had to nurture for the SmartPhone platform, one that has no touch screen, one that will need a comparatively tiny screen, a smaller RAM footprint, a less beefy processor, etc. Welcome to 1999 PalmSource!
The Smartphone 2002 is a phone. The Pocket PC is a PDA. Different things, different goals.But that is my point Andy. If you don't already have a PDA it is because you don't need one. A Smart Phone will serve all of your PDA needs and then some. That is the MS consumer PDA. Voice first - data second. Quite the opposite from the Pocket PC phone. Data first, voice second.
Certainly there have been shifts in the market and hardware has improved, however, having a small, touchless-screen is still a critical limitation for power users and squeezing a usable VGA screen into a small phone formfactor is not possible.

So which is it? Are smartphones the better solution for voice/light-PDA-use while PPC is the solution for data/heavy-PDA-use? Or is an all-in-one platform the better approach, as Ed now seems to be advocating?

Ed Hansberry

01-07-2005, 05:56 PM

So which is it? Are smartphones the better solution for voice/light-PDA-use while PPC is the solution for data/heavy-PDA-use? Or is an all-in-one platform the better approach, as Ed now seems to be advocating?
MS isn't there yet on the interface, but they are getting closer. I think you can have a limited function Pocket PC sans touchscreen using the Pocket PC operating system with a phone keypad and joypad mechanism. You'd never be able to run a powerful app like Pocket Informant on that kind of device, but apps like eWallet, ListPro and others should work fine without a touchscreen.

I wouldn't want a non-touchscreen Pocket PC today - there are still things in the PPC PE that don't work totally right with a keypad, but MS is getting closer. In 18-24 months though, yeah, I could definitely see it.

surur

01-07-2005, 07:03 PM

Pocketpc's are in general a superset of the smartphone OS. More and pocketpc's are coming out with keyboards, especially the phone edition devices. Just because you have a touch screen does not mean you have to use it.

Because the less capable platform is falling away, and pocketpc os is developing to be more keyboard and button friendly, I expect the next major release of any actively developed software to be keyboard friendly also, especially a very well supported package like pocketinformant. And because there will always be a touchscreen (as the touchscreen-less OS is being abandoned) all your old poorly adapted software will be usable too.

This is a very good development, and something I have been wishing for for a long time.

Surur

gibson042

01-07-2005, 07:37 PM

And because there will always be a touchscreen (as the touchscreen-less OS is being abandoned) all your old poorly adapted software will be usable too.
I'm not so sure that's the direction in which they are headed. Way too many people love their touchscreen-free (smart)phones for Microsoft to simply abandon them. More likely than not, touchscreens will just become optional on the merged Windows Mobile platform, with smartphone descendents lacking them.

On a related note, I wonder about the soft buttons we've been seeing in Magneto. Does this mean that all WM devices will be required to have extra physical buttons? They won't be strictly necessary when a touchscreen is present, but I wonder just how much variation will be allowed under the merged WM platform.

Ken Mattern

01-08-2005, 04:34 AM

Merging the devices sounds great for those who need both devices. But what about the individual who does not want or need a mobile phone? There is still much more area in the United States alone that does not have mobile phone coverage. I hate to pay for technology that I will not use just to get something that I will use. I want a Pocket PC without a telephone.

What ever happened to the days when all you used a telephone for was to talk to someone else?

have you seen the motorola A780? flip phone/pda that runs linux with a touch screen and a stylus. the important thing is that it's a phone first and a pda second.

But what if I DON'T want a phone. I, of all people, don't want to sound like a Ludite, but there is technology that I DO NOT WANT (forgive the shouting). If I want a smartphone I'll buy one, but I do not want to pay for technology that I do not want or need! It's like being forced to purchase a high definition digital TV so that I can watch movies on my VHS player. It makes no sense.

I want a telephone to talk to other people and a PPC for doing real work. I do not want to merge the two together. It will do me no good.

I know I'm asking for a flame, but let's look at it an another angle. My mother could use a Pocket PC to help her do her job. Unfortunately whenever I visit my mom I have NO cell phone connectivity because she lives in a rural area. Why should my mom be saddled with technology that she can not use and have to pay the price for the hardware and who knows; the service as well?

WyattEarp

01-08-2005, 06:38 AM

But what if I DON'T want a phone. I, of all people, don't want to sound like a Ludite, but there is technology that I DO NOT WANT (forgive the shouting). If I want a smartphone I'll buy one, but I do not want to pay for technology that I do not want or need! It's like being forced to purchase a high definition digital TV so that I can watch movies on my VHS player. It makes no sense.

I want a telephone to talk to other people and a PPC for doing real work. I do not want to merge the two together. It will do me no good.

I know I'm asking for a flame, but let's look at it an another angle. My mother could use a Pocket PC to help her do her job. Unfortunately whenever I visit my mom I have NO cell phone connectivity because she lives in a rural area. Why should my mom be saddled with technology that she can not use and have to pay the price for the hardware and who knows; the service as well?

That's why we have choices. Microsoft is not the only maker of Smart Phone OSes they just took the name and ran with it. There are more than enough phones out their to make everyone happy. They just got started and are doing what others have already done just with a different OS.

k1darkknight

01-08-2005, 01:32 PM

Well, Jason has already registered windowsmobilethoughts.com so why not just migrate this site to there? In the end, I see where smartphonethoughts.com and this site are combined....
... "Windows Mobile" is a registered trademark and Microsoft will not allow to use it in Internet domain name... So probably Jason will have to invent some other name. I don't even dare to propose anything... anybody?
Actually, the simplest way to solve this problem (and make the name easier to type) is to simply call it winmobilethoughts.com, or even just mobilethoughts.com (though that would imply any mobile devices, Palm and traditional cell phones included...)

Anyway, back on topic...my impression of this whole subject goes back to these comments:
I actually think this is MS's way of killing smartphones without admitting it.
...microsoft may just phase out smartphone and have something like pocket pc phone edition as their single preset windows mobile platform.
I think that Microsoft is either planning on dropping the whole smartphone line, or at least reducing their emphasis on it so dramatically that they may not even use their name on future smartphones. (Someone pointed out that MS did not start smartphones, but rather picked up the name at some point) Instead, they would just license out their software for use by existing phone manufacturers, charging a smaller licensing fee, but updating it much more infrequently.

On the Pocket PC side, I think MS intends to simply develop a single OS, rather than separate flavors for Pocket PC vs. Pocket PC Phone Edition. The way they could implement this would be to simply have two separate feature sets. Obviously PPCs that don't have any phone hardware don't need the software support for it, so they just wouldn't install that part (application?) on those devices. Then PPCs with phone hardware, obviously WOULD have phone support installed. MUCH simpler than having two variations of the whole OS.

Finally (and I know I'm running on a bit), I think Microsoft is trying what they've tried unsuccessfully to do in the past, in getting people to name products what MS wants them to. I, for one, will never call a Pocket PC a "Windows Mobile Device" any more than I call my PC a "Windows XP Computer". Just my opinion, but Pocket PC is just easier to say! Funny thing is, I know of people who still refer to any 'vertically-oriented' PDA as a "Palm Pilot" even though that was only the name of Palm's what...first device, back in the 90's? YEESH!

Okay, done ranting...just wanted to put in my 35 cents' worth (and it's cheaper than a stamp...lol)

k1darkknight, aka 'electronic organizer' user :P
----------------
HP iPAQ 2215, 512MB PNY, 1GB Lexar SD cards, aluminum Rhinoskin case
(eventually upgrading to Dell Axim X50v :D )

surur

01-08-2005, 01:45 PM

But what if I DON'T want a phone. I, of all people, don't want to sound like a Ludite, but there is technology that I DO NOT WANT (forgive the shouting). If I want a smartphone I'll buy one, but I do not want to pay for technology that I do not want or need! It's like being forced to purchase a high definition digital TV so that I can watch movies on my VHS player. It makes no sense.

I want a telephone to talk to other people and a PPC for doing real work. I do not want to merge the two together. It will do me no good.

I know I'm asking for a flame, but let's look at it an another angle. My mother could use a Pocket PC to help her do her job. Unfortunately whenever I visit my mom I have NO cell phone connectivity because she lives in a rural area. Why should my mom be saddled with technology that she can not use and have to pay the price for the hardware and who knows; the service as well?

If you want a VGA pocketpc you are getting bluetooth, if you want to or not. GSM is just another wireless protocol, and it will eventually become so cheap you wont notice the difference, or care if you dont use it.

Bundling has always been a problem, but its not going to go away anytime soon.

Surur

Ken Mattern

01-08-2005, 03:51 PM

If you want a VGA pocketpc you are getting bluetooth, if you want to or not. GSM is just another wireless protocol, and it will eventually become so cheap you wont notice the difference, or care if you dont use it.

Bundling has always been a problem, but its not going to go away anytime soon.

My current PPC of choice is an iPAQ 5455 and I use both the bluetooth and WiFi. I want bluetooth and WiFi. I don't mind GSM either as long as it comes without a SIM and I do not have to pay extra for a service that I will not use.