Where do most users locate My Documents?

[terrypin]

The inflexible way that WM2003 apps like PocketWord etc handle File>Open operations (with this 'All Folders' stuff, and difficult navigation), has caused me repeated confusion over the last couple of years. It still seems non-intuitive. But to minimise the problem and simultaneously recover some RAM storage, do most users move the My Documents folder from the device root to a CF or SD card? Are there any downsides of doing that please?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK
Using iPAQ 2210 with WM2003.

[Sven Johannsen]

Well, you can't move My Documents, but you can have more than one of them. I have a My Documents folder in RAM, one in my Built-In-Storage and one on my SD card. In each of the latter two cases it is important to ensure there is no ignore-my-docs file in that storage root, or the OS will expect to use and search the entire media for files rather than just the My Documents folder.

The files in each My Documents folder are treated in the file open dialogs as one location. If you have a Pictures folder under My Documents on the SD card and a Work folder in Main Ram, a file open dialog/page at My Documents will show both folders under it.

The difference, and I don't consider it a problem, is that the sync'd file folder on the desktop only get the files in the main Ram My Documents. So you just need to decide if a file changes significantly enough and you need to automatically copy the most recent version between devices or not.

[Kati Compton]

The "upside" (though it's still annoying) of the non-RAM My Documents not getting synced is that it's not RAM. So even if you hard-reset, you haven't lost the document like you would if it were RAM (so the sync for backup reason is a little less important).

To save RAM I install as many programs as necessary to ROM, move big files like mp3s, jpgs, and PDFs to CF, and use RAM for stuff that I really need synced, and put the rest to ROM or CF.

As said earlier, you can make a My Documents directory in the root of ROM or a storage card and the device's built-in apps will see it as all being one My Documents directory internally. Just make sure you delete the "ignore_my_docs" file if present.

So, for example, themes need to be in a My Documents directory AFAI remember, so I put them in a My Documents directory in ROM to move them out of RAM.

[terrypin]

Thanks both. I've set up a My Documents folder now in 4 places: the original (under the root), CF Card, SD Card, and iPAQ File Store. (The latter purely for 'symmetry'; at present it's empty.)

Kati: Could you amplify on what you mean by 'ROM' in this context please? Do you mean what I've called File Store? Surely that can't be ROM, or you wouldn't be able to create, delete and edit files in it?

As a follow-up question, am I right that there are broadly 3 categories of program in terms of how they open files:

1. Look at all folders on the device, in the familiar way, just like the PC, so My Documents is just one folder like any other. (I wish that was the only type!)

2. Look only at My Documents, and its sub-folders. (This was the type that prompted my original query, i.e. like Word, Excel, etc.)

3. Look only at My Documents plus only one level below. (For example, I have a dictionary app called MDict which can only see its dictionary, wordnet20.mdx, if I place that in \SD\My Documents\SD Library, rather than in the subfolder I'd prefer \SD\My Documents\SD Library\Reference


--
Terry, West Sussex, UK
Using iPAQ 2210 with WM2003.

[koppee1]

I really hate how you CANNOT make the default My Documents folder to one in your storage card. Is there a way that I don't know about? Or how you can't make the pictures taken by the camera default into a My Pictures folder in the storage card.... :cry:

[Sven Johannsen]

Kati did mean Built-In-Storage (Dell) and iPAQ-File-Store when she referred to ROM. These areas are actually left over Flash ROM that is available after the OS and internal apps use up what they need. Most folks just leave of the flash part, because we are to busy. That's why we have acronyms in the first place. To busy to say or type Read Only Memory. ;)

Many programs do have options to change the defaut storage location for new documents. Word, Excel and Notes do. Does the camera app not allow that?

[threedaysdwn]

The ROM in most new PPC devices is actually EEEPROM (embedded electronically eraseable programmable read only memory). It works like any switched ROM except that it can be erased and reprogrammed on-the-fly... making it not really as Read Only as the name might imply. It is not RAM, however, as that implies volatile memory.

[terrypin]

Thanks for the explanatory follow-ups. Now understood. It was that 'read only' implication that confused me.

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK
Using iPAQ 2210 with WM2003.

[TFGBD]

If the PocketPC File dialogs bother you, stop suffering and try using FileDialogChanger to override them.

http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Cupertino/2039/filedlgchg.zip
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Cupertino/2039/filedlgchg.zip

Screenshot:
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Cupertino/2039/filedlgchg.jpg
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Cupertino/2039/filedlgchg.jpg
If I had a PocketPC, this program would be a god send. :)

Enjoy!

[Eowyn]

After six months of having a IPAQ 2210, I still have not seen a simple but comprehensive explanation of the directory structure. I recently purchased the SPB Pocket PC Tips and Tricks, partly because I expected it to include the explanations I need, but it doesn't. For something so important, and so non-intuitive, I need to understand it so I don't get frustrated when odd things happen. :?


Terrypin's 3 categories of programs has made a dim light bulb come on for me. Can someone please confirm this as terrypin requested.

As a follow-up question, am I right that there are broadly 3 categories of program in terms of how they open files:

1. Look at all folders on the device, in the familiar way, just like the PC, so My Documents is just one folder like any other. (I wish that was the only type!)

2. Look only at My Documents, and its sub-folders. (This was the type that prompted my original query, i.e. like Word, Excel, etc.)

3. Look only at My Documents plus only one level below. (For example, I have a dictionary app called MDict which can only see its dictionary, wordnet20.mdx, if I place that in \SD\My Documents\SD Library, rather than in the subfolder I'd prefer \SD\My Documents\SD Library\Reference




The files in each My Documents folder are treated in the file open dialogs as one location. If you have a Pictures folder under My Documents on the SD card and a Work folder in Main Ram, a file open dialog/page at My Documents will show both folders under it.

Sven, Do you mean a Work folder under My Documents in the main ram?


Why do I end up with a "my documents' folder under "my documents" on the CF card? (when I rename/move a file to the CF Card )

Is there any way for word/excel/etc to see files that are two or three levels deep in the directory structure?

If everyone recommends deleteing "ignore_my_docs" what was the point of it in the first place?


If you do rename or delete "ingore my docs" do you need to reset before the it takes effect?



It's taken me over an hour to compose this message, because I have been experimenting as I go. :mecry:

[Sven Johannsen]

After six months of having a IPAQ 2210, I still have not seen a simple but comprehensive explanation of the directory structure. I recently purchased the SPB Pocket PC Tips and Tricks, partly because I expected it to include the explanations I need, but it doesn't. For something so important, and so non-intuitive, I need to understand it so I don't get frustrated when odd things happen. :?


Terrypin's 3 categories of programs has made a dim light bulb come on for me. Can someone please confirm this as terrypin requested.

As a follow-up question, am I right that there are broadly 3 categories of program in terms of how they open files:

1. Look at all folders on the device, in the familiar way, just like the PC, so My Documents is just one folder like any other. (I wish that was the only type!)

2. Look only at My Documents, and its sub-folders. (This was the type that prompted my original query, i.e. like Word, Excel, etc.)

3. Look only at My Documents plus only one level below. (For example, I have a dictionary app called MDict which can only see its dictionary, wordnet20.mdx, if I place that in \SD\My Documents\SD Library, rather than in the subfolder I'd prefer \SD\My Documents\SD Library\Reference


That's pretty much it. The problem comes with third party programmers not adhering to the MS concept. Not a bad thing IMHO, but it does make some of the third party file access different than the MS file access. Even MS is not consistant, as MP will work with more nested folders than the other MS apps.


The files in each My Documents folder are treated in the file open dialogs as one location. If you have a Pictures folder under My Documents on the SD card and a Work folder in Main Ram, a file open dialog/page at My Documents will show both folders under it.
Sven, Do you mean a Work folder under My Documents in the main ram?
Yes I did mean \MyDocuments \Pictures in RAM and \My Documents\Work on the CF card.
Why do I end up with a "my documents' folder under "my documents" on the CF card? (when I rename/move a file to the CF Card ):
My guess would be the existance of a hidden ignore-my-docs, making the OS read the CF card starting at the root, rather than at My Documents on the CF card.
Is there any way for word/excel/etc to see files that are two or three levels deep in the directory structure?:
No. That's just the way MS built the file open in their apps. I think some of the thought process may have been that with the limited memory available, too many nested folders would just take too much room and you wouldn't have that much data to need that many levels of organization. Remember the OS basics were conceived before PPCs even had 16-32M of RAM, and Flash cards you could afford were 64M at most.
If everyone recommends deleteing "ignore_my_docs" what was the point of it in the first place?:
When you only had 64M of Flash, it was not uncommon to just throw files on there. Since the OS wanted to look in My Documents for user files, to seperate them from system files, there had to be some way to tell it, not to look for files only in a My Documents directory. Now that you have 1G flash cards and everyone is installing apps to them, having a My Documents folder and getting rid of the ignore file, keeps your picture app from showing you all the bitmaps that are sitting in program folders on the flash card. Or it should.


If you do rename or delete "ingore my docs" do you need to reset before the it takes effect?:

Probably a good idea, and can't hurt. I can tell you that if you do delete ignore_my_docs and don't have a My Documents folder, the OS will put it back in short order.

It's taken me over an hour to compose this message, because I have been experimenting as I go. :mecry:
Took me a bit to get the quotes on this response straightened out too. :)

[Eowyn]

thank you sven.

I have now deleted the ignore my docs files.

I have just solved another puzzle. In word and excel, selecting some folders would give me just the files in that folder, whereas selecting a different folder would show me ALL the files regardless of location. This 2nd case occurred when the folder name existed on the card but not in main ram. So I now need to duplicate some of my directory structure in main ram My Documents.

(hehehe .... Dont you love PDAs? I haven't yet got out of bed and I'm posting via wifi (and fitaly keyboard) :D

[Kati Compton]

The ROM in most new PPC devices is actually EEEPROM (embedded electronically eraseable programmable read only memory). It works like any switched ROM except that it can be erased and reprogrammed on-the-fly... making it not really as Read Only as the name might imply. It is not RAM, however, as that implies volatile memory.

Actually, although in practice RAM means volatile, the acronym is "random access memory", meaning addressable rather than volatile. So in truth, there's a lot of misnomers out there, which is unfortunate.

But yes, I meant the file store. Sorry I didn't clarify - I'm out of town at the moment. ;) But I'm glad someone filled in for me. :P

[martin_ayton]

Sven wrote:

Now that you have 1G flash cards and everyone is installing apps to them

How? Most of the software I have come across (admittedly not much, yet) is on CAB files which install where they like - usually to RAM :( . How can I force this stuff to install to my SD card?

[Darius Wey]

How? Most of the software I have come across (admittedly not much, yet) is on CAB files which install where they like - usually to RAM :( . How can I force this stuff to install to my SD card?

There's a program called CabInstl which allows you to actually install them to a folder of your choosing. You can also choose to delete or not delete the CAB file upon installation. It's a must-have utility. ;)

[Sven Johannsen]

Sven wrote:

Now that you have 1G flash cards and everyone is installing apps to them

How? Most of the software I have come across (admittedly not much, yet) is on CAB files which install where they like - usually to RAM :( . How can I force this stuff to install to my SD card?

You certainly must be gravitating to the less mainstream stuff. The vast majority of software comes packaged as a desktop executable, that launches AS's add/remove programs feature, copies the cab to the PPC and runs it. The AS part of that provides the option of intalling to any memory location, if you choose not to install the default. It is unfortunate that you only get to choose SD card, not SD Card\Program Files or something logical like that.

Cabinstl provides that final organizational capability, but does require that you be able to extract or find the cab. Recently some of the larger software producers have been offerring cabs, recognizing that there is a significant base of independently connected devices that can take advantage of them.

[Darius Wey]

You certainly must be gravitating to the less mainstream stuff. The vast majority of software comes packaged as a desktop executable, that launches AS's add/remove programs feature, copies the cab to the PPC and runs it. The AS part of that provides the option of intalling to any memory location, if you choose not to install the default. It is unfortunate that you only get to choose SD card, not SD Card\Program Files or something logical like that.

The way I've worked around this is letting the Windows installation files do their stuff. Most often than not, the unloading of the EXE files will see CAB files being stored in either the Microsoft ActiveSync folder or the company's own folder in \Program Files. When the ActiveSync Add/Remove programs applet pops up, I hit "Cancel" and copy and paste the CAB files from the PC to Pocket PC instead, and let CabInstl do it's stuff. Tedious, yet wonderfully useful. :mrgreen:

[martin_ayton]

Thank you, thank you... I'm off to get CabInstl, and then play Darius' trick on the installation.