T-Mobile to BlackBerry Users: No Internet For You!

[Pat Logsdon]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.tinyscreenfuls.com/2004/12/t-mobile-network-change-cuts-off.html' target='_blank'>http://www.tinyscreenfuls.com/2004/...e-cuts-off.html</a><br /><br /></div><i>"On December 1, 2004, T-Mobile made a network change intended to prevent some users from taking advantage of a wide open hole in their network. PDA and Smartphone users could get full, unlimited GPRS (TCP) access by subscribing to the $4.99 T-Zones plan, rather than the $19.99 GPRS plan. This was possible because up until now, the wap.voicestream.com APN (Access Point Name - the server used to provide network access), used by T-Zones, allowed the same wide-open full GPRS connectivity as the internet2.voicestream.com and internet3.voicestream.com APNs that the full $19.99 GPRS plans use. In response to this, T-Mobile shut down TCP access via wap.voicestream.com by blocking all ports except those used for WAP access. The problem is that paying Blackberry customers are configured to use wap.voicestream.com for TCP access, and they were cut off, too. This has caused any application that needs TCP connectivity to the internet (IM applications, 3rd party web browsers and mail clients, etc.) to stop working."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/logsdon_20041228_blackberry.jpg" /><br /><br />Hey, way to go, T-Mobile! I'm SURE that the amount of money you're losing from port-restricted access is FAR greater than what you get from all of those pesky enterprise clients. I mention this because a few of us have been using that exact loophole for months now. Personally, I always expected it to close, at which point I'd pony up the cash for full access, instead of the port-limited access available for free. In fact, I can honestly say that it was <i>because</i> of the free access that I switched from Cingular to T-Mobile, and I'll bet that a lot of other people did the same. What do you think about this? Boneheaded move, or justified action?

[MikeUnwired]

I'm just hoping that the US carriers keep an affordable all-you-can-eat option at all.

[crimsonsky]

I figured it was just a matter of time before this happened. Of course I didn't find out about it until after I got the full plan, but again, figured T-Mobile would figure it out eventually and shut if off.

I have to wonder though how much it was really used. Except for the Blackberries, how many T-Mobile phone customers actually used a PDA to acccess the Internet this way? I'll bet it was only a small fraction of customers. Let's face it - most PDA/Phone users just aren't that savvy.

What surprises me is that this has been known about for months - and they're only just now shutting it down? I guess no one at T-Mobile reads the enthusiasts sites. :roll:

[foebea]

more than months :)

My plan is 1 month from being done, and it was old news when i got the plan (actually it was the reason i got the plan).

As a result of this i switched to lowest possible plan and will not renew the contract.at the connection speed they supply, they could provide every customer in ohio free net access from a single cable\dsl connection.

If they provided 500kb connection speed (note im not crazy, kb, not KB :)) then i would consider 20 bucks a month, but thats just too expensive for a connection that barely has enough speed to stream scratchy music.

I can live without it.

[dmy]

Well... I spuupose now Cingular will close down their loophole that allows unlimited access on their $19.99 plan.

[tourdewolf]

I decided to live dangerously and switch to sprint. 8O

Amuzing to think back when Tmo first decided to offer all you can eat internet hordes of us were beside ourselves with glee, not caring how fast it was. Now, I for one, think $19.99 mo for 30kps is not such a good deal when compared to Sprint's 100k or Edge from Verizon or Cingular. How times change.

[aristoBrat]

[i]"In response to this, T-Mobile shut down TCP access via wap.voicestream.com by blocking all ports except those used for WAP access. The problem is that paying Blackberry customers are configured to use wap.voicestream.com for TCP access, and they were cut off, too.
Not totally correct.

In addition to WAP access, T-Mobile's t-zones plans also allows unlimited GPRS access to SMTP, POP3, IMAP4, POP3S and IMAP4S.

There's more in play than "wap.voicestream.com" being port blocked because anyone with a $19.99/month unlimited Internet plan can use that APN with no blocked ports. i.e. there's something else controlling access now

And finally, BB users on HowardForums are reporting that their access has been restored, although nobody's sure if that's a temporary glitch or an official fix. :)

[maximum360]

T-Mobile is on its way to going down in a mighty burning heap.

They just lit another match... :twisted:

[Ed Hansberry]

In addition to WAP access, T-Mobile's t-zones plans also allows unlimited GPRS access to SMTP, POP3, IMAP4, POP3S and IMAP4S.

There's more in play than "wap.voicestream.com" being port blocked because anyone with a $19.99/month unlimited Internet plan can use that APN with no blocked ports. i.e. there's something else controlling access now
That explains it. I pay $20 for unlimited access and use WAP.voice* vs internet3.* because I couldn't figure out how to get MMS over internetX.*. wap.* seem to bethe most powerful and versital APN. Even allows VPN. :-)

[aristoBrat]

Now, I for one, think $19.99 mo for 30kps is not such a good deal when compared to Sprint's 100k or Edge from Verizon or Cingular. How times change.
I guess "good deal" depends on how you're using it.

T-Mobile's $19.99/mo unlimited Internet plan is for phones and tethering PDAs and laptops. But as you said, it's slow -- 30-40kbps.

Tethering a laptop on Cingular, Verizon or Sprint is faster, but costs 4x more ($79.99/month).

Tethering a PDA on Cingular is ambigious. Some say you can do it on the $19.99/mo MEdia Works plan, others say no, you need a $25/mo plan that nobody's heard of. Sprint charges $30/mo for Vision to tether Windows Mobile devices, and Verizon charges $45/mo for unlimited PDA data.

[aristoBrat]

That explains it. I pay $20 for unlimited access and use WAP.voice* vs internet3.* because I couldn't figure out how to get MMS over internetX.*. wap.* seem to bethe most powerful and versital APN. Even allows VPN. :-)
That's something relatively new -- started when they released the HP 6315 phones. Really confused a lot of people because they came preconfigured with one APN ... wap.voicestream.com 8O

When I got my i-mate JAM, i-mate suggested that I setup the main GPRS connection to "internet2.voicestream.com", and then a work connection to "wap.voicestream.com", and then (finally) set the MMS program to dial a "work connection". Blech :devilboy:

[aristoBrat]

T-Mobile is on its way to going down in a mighty burning heap.

They just lit another match... :twisted:
FWIW, they're making money and second only to Verizon in net adds (new customers minus quitting customers) for the last few quarters.

But what they did was crappy, and I hope they learned something from all of the negative blog/forum press that they got. :)

[DaleReeck]

So, everyone's pssed because TM closed a lophole that shouldn't have been there to begin with? Was the wap port access advertised as having unlimited internet? If not, then isn't that technically stealing - paying for wap service and knowingly getting full internet even when its not supposed to be?

I'm not saying that taking advantage of it was stealing per se. God knows the cell phone companies jam us enough with their extra fees. But getting pissed about them closing the hole seems a little severe. You should be thankful you had the access as long as you did. Just my opinion...

[tourdewolf]

The wap port was advertised as having pop email and html access.
The page on Tmo's site has been removed now but for months the $4.99 Tzones plan clearly stated pop email and html, and the $9.99 tzones pro as having exchange email, pop email, and html.

Found this in the support docs - halfway down the page under "How do I access tzones using my treo 600?"

http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm21837.htm



How do I access t-zones using my Treo 600?

Treo 600 users cannot access standard t-zones content areas, such as Download Fun™ or t-zones weather or sports scores. However, you can use your Treo 600 and t-zones service plan to access e-mail and HTML web sites.

I completly agreed with the shutdown of the "free" internet that was never advertised but this latest developement seems like just another corporate sqeeze. It also seems like a marketing goof that this happened on the heels of Tmo's announcement that it won't be rolling out Edge (or equivalent) until ~2007.

.02

[foebea]

I get really annoyed when people call this 'taking advatage of a loophole" as it is nothing of the sort. T-Mobile is not a stupid company; they have not been blind to this for years now. Free access is just unadvertised. If you asked them before they didnt know about it, and if you ask them now they will say they were not aware of that, but this uninformed approach is not unique to tmobile. They know, they just dont talk about it. Whatever.

I got the phone because my local store advertised free unlimited net access. For most of my contract i received that and I'm sad to see it go (and I can't wait to get above ground so I can see if it hasn't :)), but that is up to tmobile.

See, I can deal with this. Just don't say I have been taking advantage of a loophole. Please. That phrasing makes it sound as though people who used the free access are bad people, and it simply isn't so.

--
"On a mountain of skulls in the castle of pain I sat on a throne of
blood. What was will be! What is will be no more! Now is the season of
evil..." - Vigo, the Scourge of Carpathia, the Sorrow of Moldavia

[foebea]

How do I access t-zones using my Treo 600?

Treo 600 users cannot access standard t-zones content areas, such as Download Fun™ or t-zones weather or sports scores. However, you can use your Treo 600 and t-zones service plan to access e-mail and HTML web sites.

but this latest developement seems like just another corporate sqeeze. It also seems like a marketing goof that this happened on the heels of Tmo's announcement that it won't be rolling out Edge (or equivalent) until ~2007.

.02


I think this may be simply because the treo 600 does not have a wap browser. Maybe someone who has one can test this out, but if it doesn't then it is not greed, but simply the device does not support wap cards.

[ricksfiona]

If people have been using a hole in T-Mobile's network to get free Internet access, consider yourselves lucky that you knew about it and got it for free. I've been paying for the full-blown service for months, so I'm certainly not feeling sorry for you. T-Mobile has been providing me with exceptional service and consider them the only real game in town.

But no one has mentioned T-Mobile Hotspots. You also get this for the full data plan as well. There are almost as many Starbucks and Borders in the San Francisco Bay Area as there are fast food places. I can get great Internet access fairly easily.

GPRS &amp; WiFi for $20/month? As a business user, I consider it a no-brainer. I'm happy to pay it.

[tourdewolf]

GPRS &amp; WiFi for $20/month?

Count yourself lucky. That too is a loophole.
Tmo advertised GPRS/unlimited internet and hotspot wifi combined for $19/mo. However many, including myself, after signing up found themselves being charged $19 for each. Several conversations resulted in simlar answers: "a glitch in our system may have... but the price is $19 each.
Although you may have a special arrangment, tmo doesn't offically offer GPRS &amp; Wifi combined for $20mo.

[Pat Logsdon]

GPRS &amp; WiFi for $20/month?Although you may have a special arrangment, tmo doesn't offically offer GPRS &amp; Wifi combined for $20mo.
I've experienced the same thing. I've had both the HotSpot plan for $19.99 and the T-Mobile Unlimited (GPRS) plan for $19.99, neither at the same time, and neither service worked at the same time as the other. Right now, I've got GPRS, but no HotSpot joy. When I had the HotSpot service, I didn't have GPRS except through the "loophole".

[davea]

Contrary to many of the posts above, "Free" html internet browsing is still available with the $4.99 T-Zones plan IF you configure your Smart Phone's browser to use the following PROXY 216.155.165.50 with Port 8080. I use this on my Nokia 3650 with the DORIS Browser setting these Proxy and Port settings. Browsing all html pages is no problem. This now works after my html access was "shut off" earlier this month.

I have also used the above PROXY and PORT settings on my Dell Axim X5
via Bluetooth to the 3650 to successfully work in a tethered mode to browse html pages on IE in the Dell. Again I inserted the PROXY and PORT information above.

THis is discussed in detail in Howard Forums, at this link:

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=522596

Enjoy :)

[foebea]

last time i will ask, then i wont ask anymore because i am sure it would get just as annoying.

Please don't refer to this as a loophole.

Unless T-Mobile holds a press conference announcing they recently discovered that due to a system glitch 7 million americans have been getting internet access for free and they have fixed the bug, then this is not a loophole.

Merriam Webster Dictionary says:
1 a : a small opening through which small arms may be fired b : a similar opening to admit light and air or to permit observation
2 : a means of escape; especially : an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded

There is no misworded clause in my contract which enabled me to get net access for free, so that does not apply. The first definition definately does not apply. This word simply does not apply. Don't use it.


While this is not 'Taking advantage' (negative) of a loophole, it is 'Taking advantage' (positive) of a special which tmobile ran a couple years ago; something along the lines of 'Free Unlimited Internet Access for Limited Time'. This is in no way a fault of the character of any who used it without paying. If anything, it is a fault of T-Mobile for not advertising this broadly or cancelling the plan sooner.

I feel it was double-dirty of T-Mob to charge 20 bucks a month from users who did not know about this, while permitting others to access for free. If I ran the company it would be one or the other. Not both. If there is a limited time special it applies to all users; but that is not how companies are run. They need to make money and bring in new customers. Don't get upset at them, and don't get upset at the other subscribers.

I understand how you feel. If I was getting 15 gallons of gasoline every week for about 1.80 per gallon (I am) for the past 2 years, and then I discovered one day that until just now the pump at the far end of the station had been giving it away for free with full knowledge of the station. I would not feel very happy at all. Just think of all the money I had spent needlessly. Those people have the same car as me and they are using the same gas, however I would not go to the car owners and call them thieves. It does not hold up, and it is not a very sociable thing to do.

These discussions were easier when they came up in the past, as the service was still active; the people who had been paying had the opportunity to cancel thier internet plan and use the free one. (its the same plan, only difference is cost). But not it seems maybe the service is gone. Someone said it may be back, but i have not tested that yet.

Have a cookie, some hot chocolate, and enjoy a movie or something. It's the holidays. :) :D :)

[pacemkr]

As far as I know, you did not even need the 4.99 plan. WAP access was completely free. In fact I was browsing on my 2210 through a t-mobile phone, for free, I didnt have any kind of data plan. It was VERY slow, but it was VERY free. :lol:

The "glitch" was the fact that only port 80 (browsing port) was open. So I couldnt check email or anything like that. From what I remember all that 4.99 plan gave you was the T-Zones, which is just a customizable startpage.

[pacemkr]

...I feel it was double-dirty of T-Mob to charge 20 bucks a month from users who did not know about this, while permitting others to access for free. If I ran the company it would be one or the other. Not both. If there is a limited time special it applies to all users; but that is not how companies are run. They need to make money and bring in new customers. Don't get upset at them, and don't get upset at the other subscribers....

They were charging for opening the ports. Also, I think that plan was considerably faster than the free access. And I deffinitely agree that it was no loophole. They ADVERTISED this 'free giveaway' not long ago! And its not like it was a secret or they did not admit that WAP is free. I think they simply realized that its not working for them and now its done.

[ADBrown]

Tethering a PDA on Cingular is ambigious.

Nothing ambiguous about it. Many people routinely tether their handheld and/or laptop on the $20 plan. Cingular doesn't offer support for it, but they don't stop anyone either.

Was the wap port access advertised as having unlimited internet?

Actually, yes. Sales reps and customer service frequently used it as a selling point, and flat out told customers that they would get free internet.

I get really annoyed when people call this 'taking advatage of a loophole" as it is nothing of the sort.

Thank you! Some people here seem to be under the impression that anything not explicitly given to them by their corporate owners is stealing--that the corporations have rights but we don't. If you wander into the local hardware store, and the clerk tells you that left-handed blivets are buy-one-get-one-free, are you going to believe that accepting a second blivet is stealing because the weekly flyer didn't mention two-for-one blivets?

--
"On a mountain of skulls in the castle of pain I sat on a throne of
blood. What was will be! What is will be no more! Now is the season of
evil..." - Vigo, the Scourge of Carpathia, the Sorrow of Moldavia

Bring me a child, that I might live again!

[gorkon280]

I get really annoyed when people call this 'taking advatage of a loophole" as it is nothing of the sort. T-Mobile is not a stupid company; they have not been blind to this for years now. Free access is just unadvertised. If you asked them before they didnt know about it, and if you ask them now they will say they were not aware of that, but this uninformed approach is not unique to tmobile. They know, they just dont talk about it. Whatever.

I got the phone because my local store advertised free unlimited net access. For most of my contract i received that and I'm sad to see it go (and I can't wait to get above ground so I can see if it hasn't :)), but that is up to tmobile.

See, I can deal with this. Just don't say I have been taking advantage of a loophole. Please. That phrasing makes it sound as though people who used the free access are bad people, and it simply isn't so.

--
"On a mountain of skulls in the castle of pain I sat on a throne of
blood. What was will be! What is will be no more! Now is the season of
evil..." - Vigo, the Scourge of Carpathia, the Sorrow of Moldavia

This HAD to be a independent dealer selling T=Mobile service. I have NEVER seen a T-Mobile store selling this kind of access. It was a loophole. I have asked both phone and in-store T-Mobile employees and most had never heard of this hole or if they knew about it, they did not learn about it from T-Mobile.

[gorkon280]

Please don't refer to this as a loophole.


Sorry foebea it was a loophole. T-Mobile never offered such a plan and I have this direct from several long time T-Mobile employees. If they had actually done so, I think they would still be doing it because even though it's a bit slow, it's still the cheapest game in town at 19.99 a month for GPRS. T-Mobile would RAKE IN contracts if they advertised free GPRS (or free internet on phones and PDA's).

[Vincent M Ferrari]

Thank you! Some people here seem to be under the impression that anything not explicitly given to them by their corporate owners is stealing--that the corporations have rights but we don't.

Wow... Where did that come from?

To Everyone Else:

Look people got over. It wasn't costing T-Mobile much, so they let it go. Now they want you to pay your way. How horrible of them. How dare they make you pay for a service you're using.

This whole "corporate owner" dogma is just really badly misplaced. If you were paying the $4.99 a month and using the full service knowing you were using more than you were paying for, congratulations. You scored one on the big evil faceless corporation.

But seeing as you were knowingly chuckling as you did it (unless of course, you were completely oblivious), you have no real right to complain now.

[sub_tex]

I think this may be simply because the treo 600 does not have a wap browser.

The built in browser "Blazer" on the 600 does WAP just fine.

[foebea]

Please don't refer to this as a loophole.

Sorry foebea it was a loophole.

Merriam Webster does a great job of updating the dictionary for common uses of words even if the usage was not the original intention of the word. I urge to to contact them and let them know of this new usage. Until they add it, it is not a loophole.

T-Mobile never offered such a plan and I have this direct from several long time T-Mobile employees.

Regardless of what employees tell you, they advertised it at one time. It wasn't a plan either, it was a special offer. One day T-Zones wasn't working, I called 611 and they informed me that they had never heard of t-zones. I had to escalate to a supervisor to get access to the tzones site turned back on. hmm. Not all employees are aware of every aspect of the offerings of the company.

Also, I think that plan was considerably faster than the free access.
Years ago, tmobile offered internet accelleration, all that meant is they zip compressed the data before sending it. Netscape is offering the same thing now. tmobile has not offered this in years. There is no difference in speed between any of the plans. I did a bunch of playing around with all the different data plans and they all came out identical.

one last reply :)

If you were paying the $4.99 a month and using the full service
Actually, the tzones 4.99 plan is only for access to the tzones wap site. so even this was not required. It was completely free, for a limited time. For now, it seems that time has come. No big deal. We didnt pull one over on them and they didnt pull one over on us. It just stinks that a really useful limited time free internet service offering is over.


--
"So be it. On this the day of darkness, she will be ours, wife to you and mother to me." - Vigo, the Scourge of Carpathia, the Sorrow of Moldavia

[foebea]

Okay, you've read this far. So you may have already won a prize!

I have 3 gmail invites, one for each of the first three people who post thier favorite Vigo quote!

Woo!

[aristoBrat]

I get really annoyed when people call this 'taking advatage of a loophole" as it is nothing of the sort. T-Mobile is not a stupid company; they have not been blind to this for years now. Free access is just unadvertised. If you asked them before they didnt know about it, and if you ask them now they will say they were not aware of that, but this uninformed approach is not unique to tmobile. They know, they just dont talk about it. Whatever.

I got the phone because my local store advertised free unlimited net access.
Early this year (2004, not "years ago"), T-Mobile added the "Included WAP Access" service to any account that didn't already have a t-zones/Internet service.

The purpose of the "Included WAP Access" service was to provision these accounts for GPRS access, allowing them access to download $1 ringtones/wallpapers without having to subscribe to a monthly GPRS service, like t-zones or unlimited Internet.

This has been a huge discussion point on HowardForums, and of the THOUSANDS of people that post there, nobody has ever been able to show where T-Mobile advertised "FREE UNLIMITED NET ACCESS".

And how exactly would they have advertised it, anyways? There were seven ports that worked for free -- hardly enough to be considered "internet access". You couldn't surf to a secured website like online banking. You couldn't use most Instant Messenger programs -- MSN Messenger on a Windows Mobile device was useless! You couldn't stream audio. You couldn't play most online games.

So you're saying that you signed up for T-Mobile because your local store advertised "FREE UNLIMITED NET ACCESS". Did you not happen to notice that it wasn't listed a service anywhere on the contract that you signed?

I'm still going to call it a loophole. T-Mobile had nothing to gain by secretly offering this service and then yanking it away. If anything, some of their customers will not renew their contracts because of this, causing them CHURN, something that they're desperately trying to avoid.

I think that they were sloppy in setting up their network and very naiive in thinking that the word wouldn't get out on places like HowardForums.

[aristoBrat]

And besides, this thread is about BlackBerry users who are paying $19.99/month not having full, unrestricted Internet access. :)

More and more of them are posting that their access has come back:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=521790&amp;perpage=30&amp;pagenumber=5

[foebea]

And besides, this thread is about BlackBerry users who are paying $19.99/month not having full, unrestricted Internet access. :)

Good point. Let's end this pointless bickering and share our favorite Vigo quotes :):mrgreen::)

[toncek]

Ok I'll start. I always wanted a Gmail account.

"Death is but a doorway, Time is but a window, I'll be back."
-- Vigo the Carpathian

[CoreyJF]

Foebea, your reaction the use of the word loophole is a bit excessive. As a former English Lit teacher I myself do get frustrated from time to time with the increasing disregard for the English Language. But you really need to look at the connotation of a word as well as the definition. The vernacular of the word, as most people would agree is to “get away” with something because something else was not done properly. In this case people got away with services not offered under your contract through a network hole. That actually brings me back to both of the Webster definitions you said are not applicable. I would argue that both could be applicable if you think metaphorically.

Definition: “A small hole or slit in a wall, especially one through which small arms may be fired.” Network security is commonly referred to as a wall e.g. firewall. The second part says “especially” it does not say only. If one were to continue to think metaphorically, one could also say that through those open ports or “holes” in the network, a network attack or computer virus could be launched.

Definition: “A way of escaping a difficulty, especially an omission or ambiguity in the wording of a contract or law that provides a means of evading compliance.” While there may have been nothing in your contract, the key word you need to remember is “omission.” In this case people were able to escape the difficulty of paying for additional services by TMOBILE omitting language in the contract and security protocols to prevent the accesses of unauthorized services.

[foebea]

Foebea, your reaction the use of the word loophole is a bit excessive.
I conceed to your obvious familiarity with this subject.

Thanks for explaining it, I will try to mentally replace possibly questionable words with substitutes which I know have the intended meaning through context.

And you can have a gmail account too if you want :)

I'll PM you toncek.

[pacemkr]

I have like 8 invites. If you want one, pm me. =)

[OneAngryDwarf]

Definitely boneaded and I'm defintely not happy bout this but at the same time I'm not pissed because full TCP access wasn't ever advertised.

[Darius Wey]

I have like 8 invites. If you want one, pm me. =)

There's a Gmail thread here. (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33717) It's probably best to offer invites there otherwise this may turn into a secondary Gmail thread. :P

[collegea]

I've been using the T-Mobile unlimited GPRS plan for $19.99 a amonth for the past 7 months on my IPaq 4155 and Zire 72 via my SE T610 Bluetooth phone. I consider it to be much better than the vastly over-rated Sprint CDMA network, which I used for well over a year on my Treo 300. Those who got the loophole from T-Mobile, power to you. If I knew about it before I signed up, I would've done the same thing. But I had more important things to do with my time once I signed up. In other words, I wasn't going to chase a bargain that I knew would eventually end. So, I don't feel sorry for anyone who lost this free service. As for the other users who supposedly got the shaft for a little while, I'm sure that will get rectified soon enough. After all, these wireless services don't always inspire nirvanna.