Samsung i730 To Include Both Wi-Fi and Bluetooth

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=1044' target='_blank'>http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=1044</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Documents made public today on the FCC web site show that Samsung's upcoming SCH-i730 PDA phone will include both Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, in addition to CDMA EV-DO high-speed data. The i730, first revealed six weeks ago, is a CDMA Windows-Mobile Pocket PC device with a sliding QWERTY keyboard design. Samsung has publicly shown a version with a 1.3 megapixel camera, while FCC documents also show a camera-less version. Other specs include Windows Mobile 2003 2nd Edition, a 65,000-color QVGA display, stereo speakers, and an SD I/O card slot. Carriers, release date, and pricing have not yet been announced."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2004/20041111-samsungi730.jpg" /><br /><br />Phone Scoop has an awesome find, and put simply, it makes me :drool:. We've posted on the <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34300">i730 earlier</a> as well, and as more details leak out, I want this unit even more.

[David C]

I wounder what processor it has? If it is fast enough, I can use this phone with Skype on EV-DO, and skip out on voice minutes completly. The Wifi and BT is definatly a must. And camera!

[Darius Wey]

I wounder what processor it has? If it is fast enough, I can use this phone with Skype on EV-DO, and skip out on voice minutes completly.

It's not just speed that's an issue with Skype. The type of processor is also a factor. Skype is currently suffering incompatibilities with Pocket PCs running the Samsung processors (the error has been reproduced in the h1900 and rx3000 series). The developers are looking to get this fixed in the future, although there's no guarantees - yet.

[Godsongz]

funny, until a few years ago Samsung wasn't really on my radar, now it seems they're moving up fast in the gotta-get-me-one-of-these category. I ~LOVE~ my new Samsung 193P 19" LCD.

[surur]

Unfortunately I find this device quite ugly. It looks like a shiny brick, and the keyboard makes the unit very unbalanced. Nice features, but poorly implemented.

Surur

[Philip Colmer]

Doesn't anyone make a VGA Pocket PC Phone Edition?

The VGA concept really doesn't seem to be taking off that much, does it :-(

I quite like the look of this device, though.

--Philip

[shawnc]

The VGA concept really doesn't seem to be taking off that much, does it :-(


From what I gather there doesn't seem to be much software to take advantage of the concept. If that's the only issue, then the software will eventually catch up. Personally, I don't think the extra size is worth it. Maybe it's just the insistence on dual slots, but all the VGA devices seem to be much larger/thicker than pre-VGA. A pocket PC should be pocketable, and these devices don't seem to be. I just don't think most consumers are going to want BIGGER PDA's.

Having said that, I understand the enthusiasm of those who own one of these devices. I just upgraded one of my cable boxes to HDTV. After a couple of weeks of watching the meager offerings broadcast in HD, it is really hard to go back to "regular" broadcast TV. My guess is that owners of VGA devices feel the same way about QVGA.

[twinpeaks]

Jeez, is that a Toshiba? A Sony? Or is it a Commodore? I'm just not quite sure from the picture, can someone help me with that? I see the title of this thread and people are talking about it as if it is a Samsung, but, are we sure? I can't tell from the picture :twisted:

[Darius Wey]

Doesn't anyone make a VGA Pocket PC Phone Edition?

Don't forget that once you ascend to the next level and start thinking about a VGA Pocket PC Phone Edition, it would ultimately take a hit on the battery life. Personally, I like the concept too, but can you imagine a phone whose battery dies in less than an hour? Unless batteries become optimised to deliver greater performance (which is coming, mind you), I won't be expecting anything major in VGA Pocket PC Phone Edition development in coming months.

[rjcc]

?

[Darius Wey]

?

Hi rjcc, generally it's a good idea to put your question in the main body of the post, rather than in the subject line.

But to answer your question, QVGA was and still is existent in Pocket PC devices. It displays a resolution of 240x320. However, only recently have VGA devices descended into the market. These take the resolution a notch up to 480x640. It's definitely pleasing to the eye, because your effective viewing area is four times that of a QVGA screen. Clarity of text is also improved upon since you have more pixels available. ;)

[DaleReeck]

Actually, I wouldn't fret too much about the size of the Samsung logo :) Most pre-release engineering samples don't win beauty contests. They usually clean them up for the final product.

[Janak Parekh]

Actually, I wouldn't fret too much about the size of the Samsung logo :)
I believe Rich Brome of Phone Scoop clarified this when we last covered it -- that's a temporary sticker to cover the (first) carrier who's going to have this phone. :)

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

Doesn't anyone make a VGA Pocket PC Phone Edition?
From what I've heard, battery life is the main concern of adopting VGA for the Phone Edition devices.

My guess is we'll start seeing such devices in the next generation after this next batch of units...

--janak

[Darius Wey]

My guess is we'll start seeing such devices in the next generation after this next batch of units...

Perhaps some square-resolution phone devices too.

[surur]

Doesn't anyone make a VGA Pocket PC Phone Edition?
From what I've heard, battery life is the main concern of adopting VGA for the Phone Edition devices.

My guess is we'll start seeing such devices in the next generation after this next batch of units...

--janak

I dont really believe that. The main power drain on the screen is the backlight, not the lcd. Because the screen area remains the same, the power consumption from the backlight should remain the same.

My Loox has excellent battery life, and the Dell has a smaller battery than my XDA 2, despite having wifi AND VGA.

My guess as to relative power consumption would be:

processor - 20%
LCD - 5%
backlight - 50%
WIFI- 40-60%
Bluetooth - 10%

WIFI and Backlight on (e.g. watching a streaming movie) would reduce your battery life to a quarter (say 2 hours) while playing only music with no wifi and backlight would give you 4 times as much (8 hours).

So if they increased the LCD power consumption by double, it would still only decrease the device battery life by another 5% (say 30 minutes). If anyone want to refine these numbers with actual battery tests or experience, feel free.

Im sure the real reason is cost, and current lack of demand. Im sure in two years time VGA phone screens will be common, just like 1.3 Megapixel cameras are getting now.

Surur

[Darius Wey]

I dont really believe that. The main power drain on the screen is the backlight, not the lcd. Because the screen area remains the same, the power consumption from the backlight should remain the same.

More pixels = more pixel rendering for the device = more demands placed on the processor (and graphics chip, if applicable) = more work = thus, the battery needs to supply more juice for that.

That's not to say Pocket PC Phones will be non-existent. It takes time for these innovations to be met by improving battery technologies.

[surur]

I dont really believe that. The main power drain on the screen is the backlight, not the lcd. Because the screen area remains the same, the power consumption from the backlight should remain the same.

More pixels = more pixel rendering for the device = more demands placed on the processor (and graphics chip, if applicable) = more work = thus, the battery needs to supply more juice for that.


True, but my point is I think the impact on overall battery life is far from huge, and may even be near negligible.

Surur

[Darius Wey]

True, but my point is I think the impact on overall battery life is far from huge, and may even be near negligible.

Actually, you'll be surprised. Most VGA devices have considerably lower battery lives than a lot of QVGA devices. Now, before you jump the gun and form a rebuttal (:P), I'll also grant them the fact that most have dual integrated wireless capabilities, cameras, high speed processors and what not - all taking a toll on battery life, but the point is, I don't think the transition from QVGA to VGA would be a negligible hit on battery life. There's certainly a toll on it, maybe not *considerably* huge but definitely not negligible. I had a look at this once with laptops and some mobile devices, but this was a long time ago and I don't have the statistical data on me at the moment. I'll see if I can dig it up for you. :)

[surur]

Being a great pedant (as some others may have noticed in the past :) ) I googled extensively for some real numbers. I uncovered this:

http://www.electronicproducts.com/ShowPage.asp?SECTION=3700&amp;PRIMID=&amp;FileName=febOL1.feb2003

Another significant SLCD feature is the ability to dynamically control image resolution and color depth, providing output in multiple-resolution modes while lowering overall power consumption. A 3.7-in. SLCD created with CG-Silicon had a power consumption of 14 mW for color VGA, 8 mW for color QVGA, and 2 mW for monochrome QVGA.

I assume this is without backlight, as an integrated package in qvga seems to run at about 350-400 mWatt. Im sure this is mostly backlight.
http://sharp-world.com/products/device/catalog/pdf/sg/pda_sg2004_e.pdf
pg3

Compare this to a new xscale 272 processor running at 624 Mhz. Running at full speed it can consume 925 mWatt, although this can reduce to 260Mwatt when idle.

ftp://download.intel.com/design/pca/applicationsprocessors/datashts/28000204.pdf
page 59

Also compare this with SD wifi, that uses around 300 mWatt.
http://www.davespda.com/reviews/other/sdsdiowifi.htm

In summary, my research shows the difference between vga and qvga at the tft level is only about 6 mWatt, and that there are other much more significant power suckers in a system, especially the backlight and the processor (which I was surprised to discover can use nearly a watt, and sometimes more than the backlight)

As a counter point, in real life the Dell v50 mid has similar specs to the Dell v50 high, accept for a qvga vs vga screen and a 624 vs 520 mhz processor. The vga device has significantly less battery life than the qvga one (e.g. 2h40min vs 3h37m on the standard use test) but then the 624Mhz processor uses 175mWatt more than the 520Mhz one, which is more than half as much as running wifi also.

http://www.aximsite.com/articles/link.php?id=200
http://www.aximsite.com/articles/link.php?id=199

Surur

[whydidnt]

I'm not sure I find this extremely attractive, but the feature set is great. This is the first CDMA phone to include WiFi, Bluetooth and EVDO. Plus it appears to be a pretty compact form factor. The built in keyboard is almost becoming a must have for me, so I gotta give this one a big :beer: .

[Fishie]

Surur, excellent research, also explains why a lot of companies put the 520Mhz processor in instead of the 624Mhz one.

[Janak Parekh]

In summary, my research shows the difference between vga and qvga at the tft level
Ah, but the TFT doesn't include the graphics processor and the bus needed to pump the larger number of pixels. The numbers are probably more complex than that. Anyway... I'm just telling you what I've heard from others involved in the development of these devices, and seeing how others have already released 640/800 pixel devices (Nokia, Sigmarion, etc.) I wouldn't be too surprised if it's a confluence of several factors, not just battery life.

VGA is still quite new, with 5 devices or so having it. It'll take some time to hit the Phone Edition pipeline, but I'm sure it'll eventually happen. Another interesting thought: Phone Edition screens are generally getting smaller, not larger. While there are screens as small as 2.2" that have VGA capabilities, I'm not sure they're readily available (or cheap) yet. All of the VGA units now have at least a 3.6" or larger screen.

--janak

[surur]

All true, but with tech it seems it usually a case of "where there is a will, there is a way" and our devices advance despite the barriers that need to be overcome.

Phone screen resolutions have been increasing steadily, despite screens being quite small, and there are several feature phones (high end, but not smart phones, especially 3G phones) with qvga resolution. I would not be surprised to see a vga resolution screen on a phone in the near future, especially if use in digital cameras as view finders make them cheap.

I hope pocketpcphones lead the way in this feature, but they may in this case be surpassed by the more expensive high-end "dumb" phones from e.g. samsung in korea.

Surur

[Janak Parekh]

I hope pocketpcphones lead the way in this feature, but they may in this case be surpassed by the more expensive high-end "dumb" phones from e.g. samsung in korea.
At first, yes, but considering Samsung is a very active Windows Mobile OEM I'd imagine companies like them to lead the way in integrating hi-res cameras and displays into Windows Mobile phones. :) As it stands, I really like the work they're doing on the i730 and i640.

--janak

[beq]

Does anyone have the dimensions for this Samsung PPCPE? Might it just look a bit thick because it's WxH dimensions are actually quite small, or is it actually rather large overall?

I'm finding myself contemplating switching to Verizon or Sprint for the first time, as this would be an acceptable PPC :D Probably will still get my global-traveling family member GSM, either the Blue Angel (MDAIII) or the smaller Magician.

Thing is, when are any of these PPCPE's coming to the US?? I admit I sometimes forget to follow PPCThoughts regularly, but each time I visit CompUSA or Best Buy they still never have any of these next-gen PPCPEs! I was hoping to buy for Christmas, but obviously it's not happening...

[Jonathon Watkins]

Being a great pedant (as some others may have noticed in the past :) ) I googled extensively for some real numbers.

Interesting numbers Surur, cheers. The lack of VGA screens on PPCs with embedded phones means I'll stick with a two device solution for the time being. I won't go back to a QVGA device now I've been enjoying VGA. It may be subtle, but it really makes a difference. I've had several folks saying they can now see the point of a PPC.

I would be happy to have a large screen VGA screen on a PPC with an embeded phone. With Bluetooth headsets it's a great solution. :wink:

[Darius Wey]

Does anyone have the dimensions for this Samsung PPCPE? Might it just look a bit thick because it's WxH dimensions are actually quite small, or is it actually rather large overall?

I'm not entirely sure what the dimensions are. I'm still digging up that information, so when I do, I'll post a follow-up here with the figures.

In the meantime, I don't think we've ever posted a picture of the i730 from the back. So here it is:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/i730-back.jpg

[Janak Parekh]

I'll stick with a two device solution for the time being.
But nothing says that you can't pair a Pocket PC Phone alongside a VGA Pocket PC, except for cost. :P And maybe pocket space.

Darius: nice catch. That backside looks awesome. And they've fixed the stylus so it's on the top. :D

--janak

[Darius Wey]

And they've fixed the stylus so it's on the top.

It took many hours of hard labour to work out that that was probably the better option.. :lol:

[surur]

Darius: nice catch. That backside looks awesome. And they've fixed the stylus so it's on the top. :D

--janak

I agree the backside looks a lot better than the front. Maybe I just dont like shiny black boxy look, but am still a sucker for the curvy silver look? It looks a lot smaller from the back than the front. The screen is apparently 2.8 inch.

Surur