Innocent 650 vs 6601 Business Trip Showdown

[HobbesIsReal]

I wanted to share this unique experience that I had with a colleague of mine. Now please remember I loved my 600 and still like many aspects of the 650, ie the form factor, but due to the demands of my job chose the 6601 as I felt it suited my personal needs more.

I have a fellow manager with the 650 who always made a point to laugh at or put down my 6601 until he had to still carry his laptop around on two trips we took together this last month because of the limitations of the 650. I was able to leave my laptop at home each trip for the simple fact my phone has Wifi capabilities. He constantly pointed out how much bigger he felt the phone was over his 650 (though in reality was not a very big difference). But let's see....a couple mm bigger phone or a treo 650 with a laptop, bag, and all necessary accessories....which is more convenient? This point struck home when we were boarding the plane and he thought I left me laptop in the terminal, until I told him I left it in the office as I didn't need it because I had my 6601 with me.

Plus the speaker phone on my 6601 was far superior to the 650 so we had to use my phone for each of our conference calls. (am not not sure if this was the case with his 650 speaker phone or all 650 models.)

Plus , since we were in a Roaming Area, he did not have any internet access options on his 650 (roaming no Vision, no vision no internet, no internet no web or email access) so he constantly had to borrow mine with my Wifi card to check his stats and emails.

Plus since mine was the only one that could sync with the BT GPS that we borrowed from a friend (due to the 650 crippled BT) we had to us my 6601 for all the navigation in the rental car.

Plus I forgot to mention he couldn't even make out going calls while in Roaming, so he had to use mine several times to call Corp or his boss.

Plus due to limited memory I saw him uninstall two programs during the trips to add the another he needed.

It's funny that he has not said a single thing, positive or negative about my phone since those trips.....I think after all the guff he dished out prior to the trips putting down my decision to go with the 6601 over the 650 put him in a bad spot when he become so dependent on the 6601 when his 650 could not pull the job. Just a single example of some of the reasons I personally chose the 6601 over the 650.

I have always recognized that every phone has it's target market that fits perferctly for it's customers. I know a lot people who love the 650, and rightly so, as it fits their needs just perfectly. But I cant decide to laugh at or be concerned for those that are so close minded that they get so hooked on a single phone that they cannot recognize there really are other options out there that could possibly do a better job with what they want to do.

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Hobbes
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[mboliver]

LOL...good story. It's not so easy to take the high road in such matters. You just have to stay focused and have faith that there will come a time when they will have to eat their words.

I'm thinking that your friend will not have too many meals listed on his expense report :wink:

[Janak Parekh]

But I cant decide to laugh at or be concerned for those that are so close minded that they get so hooked on a single phone that they cannot recognize there really are other options out there that could possibly do a better job with what they want to do.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. :) I still don't understand why Palm forsook WiFi on the 650... :|

Mind if I make a frontpage link to this post? I think it highlights that there is no one "right" answer and people who like to make a "vs." argument are generally being short-sighted.

--janak

[HobbesIsReal]

Mind if I make a frontpage link to this post? I think it highlights that there is no one "right" answer and people who like to make a "vs." argument are generally being short-sighted.

--janak

Doesn't bother me at all as I think these forums would become even more valuable without Phone, OS, or Company loyality driven responses. And provide a greater enviroment for those to help make up their own minds what phone is best for them and their personal needs.

[Janak Parekh]

Thanks, I've queued it up. :)

--janak

[Zack Mahdavi]

Thanks for the thoughts. I have been thinking about upgrading my phone to a Treo 650 for a while, but I've been hesitating because of all the weird problems that keep coming up regarding the 650.

If I'm going to combine my phone and PDA into one device, it needs to be able to do both things just as well as the individual devices. I recently decided that the Treo 650 isn't that device, and I'm glad I didn't lay down the $500 for that smartphone.

[Ed Hansberry]

I think you hit the nail on the head here. :) I still don't understand why Palm forsook WiFi on the 650... :|
Isn't it obvious?!?!?!

It isn't "Zen." When the Treo 700 has WiFi, it'll be zen and proper. Until then, all of us with WiFi on our phones are morons until PalmOne shows us the way. :roll:

[HobbesIsReal]

Thanks, I've queued it up. :)

--janak

Just an FYI...I just saw it on the Frontpage, the link is right, but it is quoting another thread.

[whydidnt]

Excellent Post.

I'll admit to being tempted by the Treo 650 form factor and gorgeous screen, especially after playing with one at the Sprint store. If Palm had done it right I may have even jumped on it instead of the PDA2K. In this case size matters, but not at the expense of real usefulness and functionality.

It's very useful to hear real world usage of the type of functionality in these devices.

[Janak Parekh]

Just an FYI...I just saw it on the Frontpage, the link is right, but it is quoting another thread.
No, it's quoting this one. I just removed a newline.

--janak

[Darius Wey]

Great post HobbesIsReal - it's always nice hearing stories from our readers. :)

[mcsouth]

Nice post....it's always great to get real life instances of one device's advantages vs. another. It helps all of us keep these things in perspective the next time we go shopping for a new device.

For what it's worth....I have an iPaq 1945, which I love. My boss recently bought me a Dell X50v for work. I love the Wi-Fi, but beyond that, I hardly use it - it's just too big and bulky to easily carry around. My 1945, even in the Rhinoskin hard case, is so slim, it just slips into my pocket unnoticed, so I carry it everywhere.

I don't have the heart to tell my boss that I don't want to use the Dell........sounds like I maybe should have talked him into the 6601 instead!

[jeasher]

If I'm going to combine my phone and PDA into one device, it needs to be able to do both things just as well as the individual devices. I recently decided that the Treo 650 isn't that device, and I'm glad I didn't lay down the $500 for that smartphone.
You sound like me. I almost pulled the trigger on a SX66 from Cingular but I got greedy at the last minute. I want a camera as well as everything else. So that leaves me with the MDA III or O2 IIs, but those are expensive. I was toying with the idea of dropping the coin when I saw a review of the O2 II mini. That thing is portable! But I still want a keyboard. So I fell in love when I saw the Benq P50. It combines every single feature I care about in a nice, tidy package. Now I just need it to be released. :roll:

[Matt Kitchen]

In all fairness I think it should be pointed out that there is currently a WiFi hack for the Treo 650 to make it usable with WiFi - and for those that want an official driver and impatient palmOne is "supposed" to be releasing one in 2005 like they did for the T|5 and T|3 - but feel free not hold your breath.

I am rather unbiased when it comes to the two devices, but i am not quite understanding all your points...

1) I'll give you the speaker phone for i have not used one and can't combat that
2) WiFi hack now available or wait until the GSM model comes out for Cingular for extended data coverage
3) To my knowledge most Bluetooth GPS' should work with the 650 - depending on which one, there might be some problem of dropped calls reference (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=65606&highlight=treo+650+gps)
4) Is this not more of a carrier issue?
5) Yes, the Treo 650's greatest drawback.

Like i said, i think both of them are great devices, but I guess i feel like i need to stick up for the little guy in the Pocket PC world here.

[jeasher]

Like i said, i think both of them are great devices, but I guess i feel like i need to stick up for the little guy in the Pocket PC world here.
Little guy isn't a Pocket PC. :lol:

[Zack Mahdavi]

In all fairness I think it should be pointed out that there is currently a WiFi hack for the Treo 650 to make it usable with WiFi -

I was following the development of this hack on TreoCentral. The guy who figured it out is an absolute genius, and I commend him for putting the effort into figuring out how to make it work. However, it must also be said that the hack requires a hard reset to switch between WiFi and the CDMA module, so I wouldn't really consider it a day-in/day-out solution.

Hopefully, Palm will actually make the WiFi module compatible in 2005, or, *gasp*, integrate WiFi into the next Treo! I highly doubt the latter.. ;)

[HobbesIsReal]

3) To my knowledge most Bluetooth GPS' should work with the 650 - depending on which one, there might be some problem of dropped calls reference (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=65606&highlight=treo+650+gps)
4) Is this not more of a carrier issue?
.

Am not for sure, but to the best of my knowledge a lot of people over at TreoCentral have reported this problem of not being able to call out while roaming....they can get calls in, but not out.... and I don't think it was carrier specific.

P1 told Sprint that it would not support GPS devices, but I do know that some guys over at TreoCentral got the TomTom unit to work...even over at GPSpassion and TreoCentral this is the only device I have heard about, but hopefully some others will be able to test out more units and get them to work.

[gorkon280]

Hmm....was the Treo 650 in this case on Sprint as well? It sounds like the romaing features of the phone needed updated. I find it strange that the Treo had issues while roaming while the PPC 6601 did not. In any case, the 6601 is nearly my device of choice, but I will wait either until my contract us up or until I can afford the upgrade costs (whichever comes first) to upgrade while in contract.

[ikesler]

Don't forget though......... on Sprint....... the 6601/00 don't have WIFI either! :?

[HobbesIsReal]

HTC did not make any of the 660x style phones with wifi for any CDMA carriers.

The difference between teh 660x and treo650 is that the 660x supports wifi cards, and the Socket Wifi Card works flawlessly and is dead easy to install and set up.

[amnon]

bought me a Dell X50v for work. I love the Wi-Fi, but beyond that, I hardly use it - it's just too big and bulky to easily carry around.

Hey, can I have it? Just tell your boss you've been mugged and use an orange in a bag to give you a black eye... :devilboy:

[Matt Kitchen]

Am not for sure, but to the best of my knowledge a lot of people over at TreoCentral have reported this problem of not being able to call out while roaming....they can get calls in, but not out.... and I don't think it was carrier specific.

P1 told Sprint that it would not support GPS devices, but I do know that some guys over at TreoCentral got the TomTom unit to work...even over at GPSpassion and TreoCentral this is the only device I have heard about, but hopefully some others will be able to test out more units and get them to work.

Counter points duly noted.

Once again I am not a fan of CDMA networks and am rather loyal to Cingular ATM, so if i was to invest in one it could only be the SX66 (Cingular's version of the PPC-6601) that does include WiFi. But i dunno, there is just something about holding a Treo that makes all other devices - regardless of OS - feel inferior.

I also think the 650 should get bonus points for having the far superior keyboard in my opinion.

I keep trying to cut the cake to suit everyone, but i guess it is still going to change from person to person. You would hope that with fast data transfer speeds and unlimited amounts there of, you would not need to use WiFi, but then again, I am still not ready to leave behind my powerbook on extended getaways... ahk, the torment of it all.....

[Matt Kitchen]

I was following the development of this hack on TreoCentral. The guy who figured it out is an absolute genius, and I commend him for putting the effort into figuring out how to make it work. However, it must also be said that the hack requires a hard reset to switch between WiFi and the CDMA module, so I wouldn't really consider it a day-in/day-out solution.

Hopefully, Palm will actually make the WiFi module compatible in 2005, or, *gasp*, integrate WiFi into the next Treo! I highly doubt the latter.. ;)

Agreed and agreed - but better than no WiFi for those that MUST have it and wish to stay with the 650.

[HobbesIsReal]

You would hope that with fast data transfer speeds and unlimited amounts there of, you would not need to use WiFi, but then again, I am still not ready to leave behind my powerbook on extended getaways... ahk, the torment of it all.....

You are right, until you roam....here is an answer I posted a while back during the P1 Wifi or No Wifi debate when the 650 first released:

The value of Wifi really comes into play when you go roaming. In the US Data is not an option if you roam. If you are out of coverage and in Roam....you loose ALL DATA TRANSFER options through your cell phone carrier!

Even though Sprint has a pretty good coverage area, there are still HUGE chunks of the US that are roaming. I am often times in roaming mode in backwaters, OR, ID, CA, and WY. When you roam...No Vision...No Vision then No Data....No Data then No Internet....No Internet then No Email or Web Access. No Internet or Email Access then I am tough out of luck while sitting in a McDonalds with Wifi waves flying all around me begging to be used for free.

Take a look at the light green on the Sprint map for OR, WA, ID, and WY and you will see what I am talking about, as all of that area has NO data access with the carrier.

Here is a link to see how much of the US is still in Digital Roaming: http://www.sprintpcs.com/common/pop...talRoaming.html

Not to mention those outside of the USA. The world is not the US and not here have to pay major money per kb to use their carrier for data when Wifi would be free.

These two points alone justify a need for at least an option for a Wifi card.......and why I think P1 dropped the ball on this one.

[Matt Kitchen]

You are right, until you roam....here is an answer I posted a while back during the P1 Wifi or No Wifi debate when the 650 first released:

Once again agreed - but i think it would be an interesting statistic to see who roams on a regular basis. I know i very rarely do, but I have never quite been the norm nor any common percentile ;)

Alas though, maybe the extent of this conversation has to do with the fact that you are attempting to "replace" your laptop, where I am attempting to add to it. The fact will still remain that if i was ever to leave the city on an extended venture, i would never leave my PowerBook behind. . .

[HobbesIsReal]

Alas though, maybe the extent of this conversation has to do with the fact that you are attempting to "replace" your laptop, where I am attempting to add to it. The fact will still remain that if i was ever to leave the city on an extended venture, i would never leave my PowerBook behind. . .

Yup, I am much the same way depending on the situation....and that is the key, to be able to do whatever I want in any given situation :rock on dude!: ......if I am going on a single night trip, I like to be able to travel as light as possible, especially if I have to go through 3-4 plus security checks in a 24 hour period.

If I am gone for more than 2 days, my laptop is by my side.

I also have to do a a lot of driving in the state of OR, SW WA, S ID, and W Wyoming....so I do hit a lot of roaming areas. It doesn't take very far off the beaten path of a major highway to hit roaming a lot of times. Plus in the car the laptop just doesn't seem to very useful or convenient.

The cool thing is that if you go with the GSM version you have wifi available to you no matter what! 8)

[Ed Hansberry]

If I am gone for more than 2 days, my laptop is by my side.
I spent nearly 2 weeks in Brazil with nothing but my 2215 and GPRS connected Nokia 3650. I have to be on a work trip where I know I'll need big spreadsheets to take my laptop. Otherwise, I can generally do with my Pocket PC as long as there is some connectivity available.

[Matt Kitchen]

I think about instances as you guys mention and I cannot help but think that something like THIS (http://webshop.fujitsupc.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=P1) makes more sense. I would snatch one up quickly if it wasn't for that pesky Windows XP that I have sworn off for some time now. Ah well, luckily my 12" Powerbook still barely tips the scales at a little over 5 pounds. I am still looking for that perfect convergent device to rid me of my phone and pocket PC duo. I am getting the i-mate JAM in tomorrow to review for my site, we'll see if that gets me closer.

[HobbesIsReal]

I actually have something similar, though not as new as that... it is the NEC Mobile Pro 900. I need it to submit reports back to corp while in the field. They are cool, but not pratical to replace a PC or carry around all the time. You really have to have a specialized need to really appreciate it without it getting on your nerves that it not small enough and/or not big enough.

[HobbesIsReal]

Just a follow up on the original post of this thread.....

I was down at corp last week and could not escape the attention that the 6601 drew from the top corp ranks, to the IT guys, to my other fellow District Managers. Most of them have either a Blackberry / 600 / 650 / or a regular cell phone.

The first time I pulled out my 6601 to check and reply to an email, I didn't see my phone for nearly 70 minutes as it was passed from one person to the next.

Then when I pulled out my BT Keyboard and BT mouse for it, they were very impressed.

As a result three of them have now bought a 6601 and love it and many others took note of the phone for themselves or to share with their friends.

All of this with even a cracked screen! (my replacement 6600 should be shipped out on Jan 25th).

It was pretty pretty cool! :way to go:

[Matt Kitchen]

I have sinced reviewed and gotten an i-mate JAM and fell in love with it as well. I've never been a huge fan of thumbpads so i don't require one, and the size is unbelievable. The nice thing about GSM is that I roam all the time and still use data regularly. (Although it is a slightly different situation since i am just operating under a different band)

[dh]

It's a shame that Pa1mOne messed up the features on the 650, because it was potentially soooo good.

I would have one now if it had WiFi, a decent amount of memory and a quality phone. Although I have no real desire to go back to POS, if everthting else was right I would have done it.

As it is, there is no WiFi, the stupid memory issue, crappy BT and a phone that barely works. Basically just an expensive toy, that needs hacks just to make it usable.

No thanks!

[dh]

In all fairness I think it should be pointed out that there is currently a WiFi hack for the Treo 650 to make it usable with WiFi - and for those that want an official driver and impatient palmOne is "supposed" to be releasing one in 2005 like they did for the T|5 and T|3 - but feel free not hold your breath.
But when you have to have all your apps on the SD card (due to the memory issue) the WiFi hack is a waste of time since you have to remove the card to insert the WiFi one.

A single slot device without built-in WiFi is a waste of space.

[Matt Kitchen]

Right, i pretty much already agreed to this point. I just wanted to point that fact out to reach total fairness in comparison.