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View Full Version : Motorola MPx: Launch Schedule & Memory Configuration


Jason Dunn
12-02-2004, 11:00 PM
I'm in Seattle at Microsoft's Mobius conference, and we just had a presentation from a Motorola representative where he confirmed that the Motorola MPx will be released before the end of the year...in SE Asia. :? He did, however, indicate that the phone would be available in other markets "shortly". I'm not sure what that means, but I'll venture a guess we'll see it released in North America in Q1 2005...let's hope that's not too far off. That's the good news - what follows is the bad.<!><br /><br />He confirmed that the MPx would come with 32 MB of RAM, which I find shocking. I openly asked him if they expected the product to be a success with that much RAM, and he believed it would be. He said that the reason why they didn't go with more RAM was that it was a trade-off between the hardware and the battery life and size. I believe this was the wrong decision and that users would have sacrificed a bit of battery life to get 64 MB of RAM.<br /><br />How does the RAM break down? On the demo unit I saw, 23.79 MB of of the 32 MB is useable after a soft reset with 1.19 MB in use for storage, and 10.17 MB in use by programs. I'll do the math for you: that's only 4.37 MB free for storage and 8.06 MB free for programs. I was shocked by the 10.17 MB of RAM in use after a soft reset with no other software running. It comes with a 64 MB Flash ROM chip, of which 59.45 MB is available for user storage. Interestingly enough, the Flash ROM shows up as "ResidentFlash" in the File Explorer. There's a normal memory slider, which puts to end the rumour that the MPx was going to have 32 MB of RAM purely for application execution, and that 100% of the storage was going to be in Flash ROM. If that was really the case, this device <i>might</i> have been decent with 32 MB of RAM.<br /><br />I'll wait for a shipping unit before making a final judgment on the device, but based on the current memory configuration, I have a hard time seeing this device being successful in the market. I'm fully aware that Motorola wasn't aiming at the power user market, and are instead focusing on communications, but given the amount of RAM space Pocket Inbox, Pocket Internet Explorer, and all the other communication apps need just for "slack" (temporary files, etc.) 32 MB is absolutely insufficient. It's a shame, because the hardware is the most innovative thing we've seen so far on the Windows Mobile platform - but with the current memory configuration, this device will be a colossal flop.

carphead
12-02-2004, 11:15 PM
Moto

:iamwithstupid:

:pukeface2:

I was waiting for the MPX but decided not to both and brought a C500 instead. Much better solution.

freitasm
12-02-2004, 11:16 PM
I played with one here and used it for a demo during a User Group meeting. Vodafone New Zealand will have it in feb 2005, alongside the MPx 220.

MobileAGBell
12-02-2004, 11:27 PM
What is going on with Motorola? Several months ago I returned a V600 because of 1) poor Bluetooth implementation, and, 2) crappy software integration (the phone book is a joke). I looked at the Razor and found the same crappy software. I have held off buying the MPx220 because of the reported problems with it. My local Best Buy doesn't have any '220s. They claim they returned their stock and are waiting on units that work.

IMHO Motorola has the best hardware and the worst software. Microsoft should buy them before Nokia does. I'd love to see the MPx or the MPx220 with Symbian Series 60 software.

surur
12-02-2004, 11:31 PM
I cant believe they are releasing this with 32Mb RAM. *Mb free! What a joke. Good thing I stopped waiting for this 3 months ago, after all the poor rapports from Howard forum.

Surur

powder2000
12-02-2004, 11:35 PM
Ever since the htc ppc phones with keyboards came out I haven't even thought about this thing. Wonder if they will still charge an arm and leg for this. :roll:

bdegroodt
12-02-2004, 11:42 PM
Yikes! I was just explaining to some friends of mine how Moto used to be king of the mobile phone, only to be clobbered by Nokia, and felt that Moto was on the right track to reclaim their throne...Maybe I'm thinking of a different throne for them if this keeps up. That's a big miss.

Chris Spera
12-02-2004, 11:46 PM
You're reporting what was told to me as far as a release schedule is concerned. I've been talking with (well, I've been doing most of the typing...MotoPro hasn't been saying much, which speaks volumes...) Motorola over the past few months. When I shot them a HUGE number of questions regarding hardware specs and memory configuration, they clamed up.

I agree with what Jason is saying. The hardware DESIGN is the most innovative I've seen in years. Some of the technical specs are pitifully weak. The device may not be targeted at power users, but its going to draw them in droves. Unfortunately, they are going to take one look at it and drop it like a hot rock.

The processor as speced is woefully underpowered. Its TI OMAP processor is the same or similar to that of the HP 6315. People have been complaining about it for months.

32MB of RAM that would have been dedicated to Program RAM would have been much better than this. With the configuration you've described, the device WILL flop without a doubt. There won't be enough RAM to run WiFi and then BT (or vice versa) without soft resetting. Its going to run out of RAM and resources before you blink.

There may be something to the rumor of a 64MB device based on what your're reporting here, Jason. You need to ask them about that and see what they say; but even at 64MB, its not going to be powerful enough for those users who need the communications tools that this device could and SHOULD provide.

I had dreams of push e-mail, web surfing, and phone calls all at the same time. Now, I'll be lucky to do things one at a time due to the memory constraints.

I'm glad that I too, gave up on it and went with an i-Mate PDA2K instead. The device should arrive by tomorrow morning, btw...

The MPx is too late to market, technically outdated, and pitifully, pathetically underpowered. Its too bad. The first time I saw one, I knew that I wanted one. Now, we'll have to wait and see...

Maybe we'll get lucky and the MotoPro group will prove us both wrong...

Birdman
12-02-2004, 11:49 PM
I was just about ready to pull the trigger on a PDA2K when I saw some posts on howardforums about the possible imminent release of the MPX. I have been following the MPX saga for some time, and it is truly my dream form factor, so talk about release made me second guess my PDA2K decision.

Well after reading some of these posts, I think tomorrow morning I will submit my order for the PDA2K and hopefully get it next week. I would have waited for the MPX...

commander66
12-02-2004, 11:58 PM
What is Moto doing ?

They are killing the best technology with lousy specs before they even release the device.

I hope it will flop so that they are urged to release a 64MB device asap.

Or....maybe we see similar devices by Dell or i-mate throughout the next year.

bkerrins
12-03-2004, 12:03 AM
I'm almost happy that Motorola took so long to release. It kept me waiting for what I thought was the perfect solution...Now there are multiple options avialable (or at least available sooner than the MPx). Probably cheaper and certainly with better specs. Way to go Moto!! Now I can get something better and sooner!!

Janak Parekh
12-03-2004, 12:05 AM
I was just about ready to pull the trigger on a PDA2K when I saw some posts on howardforums about the possible imminent release of the MPX. I have been following the MPX saga for some time, and it is truly my dream form factor, so talk about release made me second guess my PDA2K decision.
Indeed, I think the HTC Blue Angel and Harrier devices are going to kill the MPx now. They waited too long, as well. I'm sad about it - I liked the form factor personally - but I wouldn't get a device that is that constrained. :( Even my i600 Smartphone has 32MB flash storage and 32MB for executing programs!

--janak

Gerard
12-03-2004, 12:09 AM
After so long a delay (or series of delays) in releasing this thing, it's dead in the water. Sales will be moderate, then fade quickly, imo.

They need o seriously think about re-engineering this thing in terms of memory and battery life/expansion, and even consider a slightly larger screen with VGA. Toss in 128MB RAM/128MB ROM, a 3000mAh battery as an option, and about a ½" bigger screen and it'd be one heck of a killer device, something even to draw hardcore PPC users into a 'converged' device. As it is, it'll be a nice toy for folks used to Palmish phone limitations, but hardly exciting enough to merit even $400 USD for the burgeoning geek market. With the clamshell/swivel design and generous thumbboard I can almost see myself crossing over... almost. But software problems and memory limitations are discouraging, and I'm so used to 10 hous of Wi-Fi use with my Mugen-powered X5 that weak power would just be the deal breaker.

R K
12-03-2004, 12:21 AM
Or....maybe we see similar devices by Dell or i-mate throughout the next year.

Hopefully...

Remember the HP iPAQ Top Secret Flash video that circulated the net a couple years ago? Now that WM2003SE is out, they can finally release it. I still have the video lying around on my hard drive too.

Personally, I was staying away from this from the begining because of the small screen, but now this just adds insult to injury.

Man... ...32MB of RAM... ...reminds me of the old iPAQ H3600 days, but of course in those days only 3.68MB was used up by the OS from a fresh soft reset.
I just did a soft-reset on my I-mate PDA2K and 12.46MB was used by the OS, granted it is a PPCPE (unlike the H3600) but so is the MPx.

Phoenix
12-03-2004, 12:46 AM
Oh my gosh, you have GOT to be kidding me!!!!

What on earth is the matter with Motorola?!?!?

Are these people living on Pluto? Who comes up with these ideas?

Motorola, at some point you are going to have to WAKE UP and smell the coffee. Good grief! What's the matter with you?


First of all, Motorola offers a huge expanded battery (1960 mAh) so battery life wouldn't be much of an issue. Companies could debate about memory vs. battery life indefinitely, but at some point they have to make the right decision, and it's not this! Are they going to go with this type of configuration forever? Devices are advancing and at this point, battery life is irrelevant to the degree that no device can offer only 32MB of RAM anymore. No company can live in the past forever - they have to move on by making design decisions that are competitive according to how devices are progressing in the marketplace. It's just as I had said months ago: 32MB of RAM is NOT enough!!!

A device of this caliber should have nothing less than 256MB of total memory. 128MB of RAM, and 128MB of ROM storage.

A device of this caliber needs a very fast processor. The processor they have in it, is just pathetic.

The problem Motorola has with their perspective is that it's completely screwed up. They don't see the MPx as a power-user's device, but mainly as a communication device. Wrong, Moto. Wrong.

A device this feature laden needs to meet the needs and desires of the power-user. That's how everyone views it. Except for Motorola. Talk about being out of touch with consumers. Moto clearly is not in the trenches here, listening to what people are saying and asking for.

If Moto releases the MPx with only this much memory and this lousy processor, IT WILL FAIL.

Talk about an all-time bonehead blunder. To put all that time, money, and effort into developing this beautiful, feature-rich device, and then cripple it and call it good. Just pathetic. Don't they have any power-users on their team?

The MPx with 32MB of RAM. What a MAJOR disappointment.

griph
12-03-2004, 12:54 AM
Ho Ho! I'm not at all surprised! I've been saying that the MPx was a donkey for some time. Now I think I can safely say it's a DEAD donkey!
32MB of RAM! That thing wouldn't go Vooom if you put 10 million volts through it! They wont be able to give these things away for free! :wink:

felixdd
12-03-2004, 01:01 AM
Times like this i wonder how companies go about pre-launch testing....

Ryan Joseph
12-03-2004, 01:03 AM
I agree 100 percent. 32MB is WAY too low for a phone edition device. My brother's XDA I constantly needs reset because of memory errors.

Moto seriously screwed up here. I just know someone I know is going to buy one of these and then ask me for tech support. :roll:

Phoenix
12-03-2004, 01:10 AM
I've been patiently awaiting this device. This was going to be the device I carried, but not now! Now I don't know what to buy. The PDA2k is a great device, but too bulky for me. I wanted a smaller clamshell based convergence device, and the MPx would have been perfect. Back to the drawing board. :roll: There's nothing else out there that I'm truly interested in at this point.

I am so disgusted right now, I can't even say... :evil:

Ryan Joseph
12-03-2004, 01:27 AM
This was going to be the device I carried, but not now!

The BenQ P50 still looks good... :)

surur
12-03-2004, 01:27 AM
Times like this i wonder how companies go about pre-launch testing....

The funny this is that this device had about the longest pre-launch testing period ever, and everyone was complaining about the memory. People were saying there was no way they were releasing it with 32Mb ram, that this was only a testing configuration, that the OS would be modified to only use Ram for ram.

All lies...

Surur

R K
12-03-2004, 01:39 AM
They wont be able to give these things away for free! :wink:
Ehh, actually I'd take one for free. :wink:

The PDA2k is a great device, but too bulky for me. I wanted a smaller clamshell based convergence device, and the MPx would have been perfect.
Not that it matters any more, but the MPx is as bulky, if not bulkier, than the PDA2K.
It actually fits in the pocket very well without a case. Now if someone came out with a great case for it, it would be perfect.

Ed Hansberry
12-03-2004, 01:40 AM
How does the RAM break down? On the demo unit I saw, 23.79 MB of of the 32 MB is useable after a soft reset with 1.19 MB in use for storage, and 10.17 MB in use by programs. I'll do the math for you: that's only 4.37 MB free for storage and 8.06 MB free for programs. I was shocked by the 10.17 MB of RAM in use after a soft reset with no other software running.
That is a total, complete and absolute joke. :evil: Only the most casual Pocket PC user would get by on that and I seriously doubt any casual Pocket PC users will fork out the coin that an MPx will cost. I'll pass.

Oh yeah - you can forget about upgrading to the next version of Windows Mobile too. A 32MB device with WM2003 is not tolerable. I suspect WM2003SE is even less so. WM2005/6/whatever probably won't boot with 32MB of RAM.

R K
12-03-2004, 01:50 AM
<a href=http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=479>PhoneScoop has the specs here.</a>

The memory spec just looks funnier on paper.

Memory 15 MB (built-in, shared flash memory)
15MB? Reminds me of the Windows CE 1.0 days.

I could see their concern for battery life though.

Battery Type LiIon
960 mAh
960mAH on a Phone Edition device?
Everyone with an iPAQ H2210 or iPAQ H4150 just imagine how much shorter your battery life would be if there was a GSM radio in there.

At this rate this phone should cost about $200. :roll:

Anyway, they really should have just put in a bigger battery rather than decrease memory.

Phoenix
12-03-2004, 02:00 AM
The PDA2k is a great device, but too bulky for me. I wanted a smaller clamshell based convergence device, and the MPx would have been perfect.

Not that it matters any more, but the MPx is as bulky, if not bulkier, than the PDA2K.
It actually fits in the pocket very well without a case. Now if someone came out with a great case for it, it would be perfect.

The MPx would certainly be thicker when closed - especially with the extended battery, but it's shorter(when closed) and narrower than the PDA2k, which is what I meant, and what I prefer.

Phoenix
12-03-2004, 02:07 AM
...15MB? Reminds me of the Windows CE 1.0 days.

Yeah, no kidding. I was thinking Moto must be stuck in a time warp somewhere.

I could see their concern for battery life though... 960mAH on a Phone Edition device?

As I mentioned before, they do offer an extended battery for the MPx with 1960mAh, so there's a solution to battery life issues right there.

Anyway, they really should have just put in a bigger battery rather than decrease memory.

Absolutely!

galt
12-03-2004, 02:46 AM
just sad.... Time to change my sig... :oops:

MPX RIP, we hardly knew thee...

menajemh
12-03-2004, 03:47 AM
maybe they sent to that conference a person from motorola that wants to be kicked. we should write all toghether to motorola about this. if this is true whats happening i preffer the mpx 200 that i can get in ebay for $130. this is a real jocke. we want the great machine that they where talking about. we are not stupid. we allready went thought hp h6315 and we don't want to go for same .... if is like that they should put thiat pocket pc in the ........ who will buy it????? cause it has a camera, bluetooth, wify, keyboard and small size that will hava to reset every hour? no thanks .................. all of us that are expecting a nice machine
from this guys and we see the dream is disapearing we should make something for this. this guys already know that we want this to come out but they didn't know we think and examine everything before we buy. i prefer my audiovox 4100 by the moment untill it comes the litle blue angel htc
moto.........lola

huangzhinong
12-03-2004, 03:50 AM
I am really happy about the spec. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I hate this monster from the beginning. Never saw so ugly device. Now, 15Mb RAM, 960mHa battery, $800 pricetag, what a joke.

bnycastro
12-03-2004, 04:17 AM
sayang!!!! (what a waste in tagalog) the form factor looked very promising. Now the i-mate JAM is really looking sweeter... Too i-mate PDA2K owners I heard the device is having BT probs have these been resolved?

whydidnt
12-03-2004, 04:19 AM
Man, what a Buzz Kill. :(

The MPx sounded as if it would be my dream device. I could have lived with 64 MB RAM, no problem. But they go and shoot it before it's even born. It's almost like the old question about Microsoft - Do the guys designing this even use a Pocket PC????

You'd think they would have learned a little from the recent Treo 650 fiasco and decided just to bite the bullet regarding memory.

Too many compromises on this pass - my concern is no one will buy it and Motorala, HP, etc will decide from this that there isn't a market for this type of device. We all know there is a market if it's done right however.

bnycastro
12-03-2004, 04:25 AM
@whydidnt: I heard there are BT problems with the PDA2K have these been resolved by i-mate? Just wondering since the PDA2K uses the WIDCOMM BT STACK and the JAM uses the MS STACK... Was wondering which has better BT implementation and ease of use. My current ppc (iPAQ 2210) has Widcomm and I love how the wizards and stuff work... is it the same with the i-mate PDA2K? I am considering these two devices as an Christmas present to myself :) and well I'm really torn...

whydidnt
12-03-2004, 04:43 AM
@whydidnt: I heard there are BT problems with the PDA2K have these been resolved by i-mate? Just wondering since the PDA2K uses the WIDCOMM BT STACK and the JAM uses the MS STACK... Was wondering which has better BT implementation and ease of use. My current ppc (iPAQ 2210) has Widcomm and I love how the wizards and stuff work... is it the same with the i-mate PDA2K? I am considering these two devices as an Christmas present to myself :) and well I'm really torn...

I'm not sure what stack the Jam is using, but the PDA2K does use the Widcomm stack. If the Jam is using the MS stack, that may present other issues, as that was a big complaint of XDAII users, since the MS stack didn't support many profiles.

Bluetooth on the PDA2K is not fixed. The biggest issue is that the connection to headsets is dropped when the phone sleeps. So when a new call comes in, you can't answer with the headset. My work around is to leave the device on while turning off the screen. Not a great solution since it burns through the battery very quickly. Others report they have difficulty with dial up networking, though I haven't tested it with my laptop yet.

It seems the Widcomm stack wasn't really designed to work well as a phone bluetooth stack as there seems to be where all the problems reside. It seems to work okay for non-phone related tasks.

Back on topic - What bluetooth stack is the MPx using?

bnycastro
12-03-2004, 04:47 AM
thanks for your reply. the JAM is using the MS stack (it is in i-mate's FAQ sheet)... As for the MPx I don't have any idea what BT stack it uses.

Paragon
12-03-2004, 04:55 AM
Ha! Great specs! :roll: I think this news confirms why we haven't seen the MPX on the market.....they haven't had any problems building it...they are having problems selling it. What carrier in their right mind would buy it? I think we have all kinda known this fact, but now we know for sure.

MPX...may it rest in piece! Dec. 2 2004

devhen
12-03-2004, 04:56 AM
InfoSyncWorld: "The Motorola MPx boasts up to 1GB of expandable memory through a SD/MMC slot"

I don't think the memory configuration alone will make this device a "flop" as Jason suggests. Any device with an SD slot has adequate storage potential. Newegg.com sells a KingMax High Speed (60 X) 1GB SD Card for $70. And they will only get cheaper.

gibson042
12-03-2004, 05:00 AM
Storage isn't the problem, RAM is. There is no way to upgrade its pathetically inadequate 32 MB. It is possible that PPC Techs will offer an upgrade, but those are expensive and the MPX will likely be overpriced beforehand.

Paragon
12-03-2004, 05:00 AM
The Motorola MPx boasts up to 1GB of expandable memory through a SD/MMC slot

I don't think the memory configuration alone will make this device a "flop". Just recently I saw a sale going on at newegg.com for a high speed 1GB SD card at under $75. And they will only get cheaper. Any device with an SD slot has adequate storage potential.

I think that would be true if it were just a Pocket PC, but for a converged device that amount of memory just doesn't cut it. It takes so much more memory just to turn on a Phone Edition device. Once it is up and running there is hardly any memory to run anything else.

Dave

MobileAGBell
12-03-2004, 05:41 AM
Jason,

What is Microsoft's take on all this? Aren't they at least a little bit pissed? Are they working with another hardware manufacturer, like Treo maybe, to get something to market? It's hard for me to believe that Microsoft would support the release of the MPx in the design/configuration you described.

bnycastro
12-03-2004, 07:25 AM
@Paragon: would you say that the i-mate JAM's 64RAM/64ROM config is adequate? Let's say I would say goodbye to my iPAQ 2210 and my nokia 7610 and get an i-mate JAM would I be doing soft resets alot? Is 64MB RAM enough for a semi-converged device (no WiFi so it ain't fully converged I guess hehe) running WinMobile2003SE? I really like the JAM's form factor and would really like to get one but alot of issues are coming out that make me hesitate... these are the reported BT problems and now RAM debates. So is 64MB RAM going to cut it for a PPCPE device? I know older models have had this config and I haven't heard anyone complaining yet but WinMobile 2003SE for Phone Ed might be more of a RAM hog than older versions of the OS so this is one of my concerns.

BTW isn't anyone going to send MOTO a link to this thread so they could atleast get an idea of how some PPC enthusiasts view their soon to be released product (they might improve it! and add 128mb RAM :D )

maximus
12-03-2004, 07:50 AM
I'm in Seattle at Microsoft's Mobius conference, and we just had a presentation from a Motorola representative where he confirmed that the Motorola MPx will be released before the end of the year...in SE Asia. :?

Sweet. SE Asia before the end of the year.

:way to go: :rock on dude!: :drinking:

32 megs only ? no problem. I have 1gigs SD cards.
I will mostly use it as a mobilephone, sms, GPRS, ICQ, and ogg player.

Jason Dunn
12-03-2004, 07:54 AM
I don't think the memory configuration alone will make this device a "flop" as Jason suggests. Any device with an SD slot has adequate storage potential.

Unfortunately, with the way the Windows Mobile OS puts things in RAM, there's just no way 32 MB will be enough. Here's hoping I'm wrong, but I think the future for this device is looking pretty grim...evey if you install EVERYTHING to Flash ROM/SD card, the amount of junk the OS puts into RAM will make 32 MB painful within a few weeks of serious use.

Jason Dunn
12-03-2004, 08:40 AM
What is Microsoft's take on all this? Aren't they at least a little bit pissed? Are they working with another hardware manufacturer, like Treo maybe, to get something to market? It's hard for me to believe that Microsoft would support the release of the MPx in the design/configuration you described.

Microsoft can give Motorola advice, but ultimately it's up to them to make the call as to what they bring to market. It's their money, their investment. Let's hope they know more than we do. ;-)

Jason Dunn
12-03-2004, 08:42 AM
BTW isn't anyone going to send MOTO a link to this thread so they could atleast get an idea of how some PPC enthusiasts view their soon to be released product (they might improve it! and add 128mb RAM :D )

Oh, they're reading it - I spoke to the Motorola person several times today about this thread, the memory survey we had last week and a few other things. Thankfully, he didn't take my comments personally - maybe there's some hope I'll get to review the final shipping unit. ;-)

Darius Wey
12-03-2004, 10:00 AM
:sleeping:

Wake me up when it's released.

We heard about the MPx eons ago, and while it sounded like the real deal back then, it now has nothing but lacklustre features in comparison to other Pocket PCs in today's market. I honestly don't see this device making a terribly huge impact in the market. Many curious MPx consumers have now diverted their attention to other devices and invested their money in those respective companies.

Jonathan1
12-03-2004, 10:21 AM
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20041202-PDABuyersGuidePPC6601.jpg

OWNED!!!!! :lol:

Why anyone would want to buy one of those Moto's at this point is beyond my comprehension.

Jonathon Watkins
12-03-2004, 11:25 AM
32Mb RAM on that configuration? 8O

:lol: I was waiting for the MPX but decided not to both and brought a C500 instead. Much better solution.
I'm getting a C500 on Saterday for use as a weekend phone. :) (As it has a camera and I can't use it during the week).

I would really like a PPC with embedded phone and a VGA screen. I wonder who will be the first to offer us one......

Paragon
12-03-2004, 03:23 PM
@Paragon: would you say that the i-mate JAM's 64RAM/64ROM config is adequate? Let's say I would say goodbye to my iPAQ 2210 and my nokia 7610 and get an i-mate JAM would I be doing soft resets alot? Is 64MB RAM enough for a semi-converged device (no WiFi so it ain't fully converged I guess hehe) running WinMobile2003SE?

Personally I think 64/64mb of memory is a rather optimal amount of RAM for most people. It balances, cost, battery life, and size quite well for the big majority of average users out there, which is the bulk ofthe market, right? It's not for power users. I don't think the JAM was designed for the power user, that job falls to its big brother the PDA2k. I doubt you will find the need to do soft resets because of lack of memory. You will likely need to do some good planning as to how and where you install things if you are going to use a WiFi card. If you have one with memory as well it's not so bad, but otherwise you are switching cards all the time, so you want to be sure that any apps you intend to use while using WiFi are not on your storage card. I have never found this to be much of a problem though.

I like the JAM myself. I can't wait to get my hands on one to try out. Less the keyboard, it blows the MPX out of the water in every category.

Dave

ppc_kiwi
12-03-2004, 03:39 PM
My experience with the MPx was like crossing a hill. The first time it was mentioned, it made me all exited and wanting to get one. The form factor, clam shell design..etc made me drool. It's like climbing to the top of the hill. And then the waiting begins.... Few more specs came out and rumors made me stay on top of the hill. And then I grew older. And few more dismal specs come out that made it less appealing. And suddenly I feel like I'm on the foot of the hill on the other side. It doesn't excite me anymore.

What a blunder in design and timing (IMHO).

Jonathon Watkins
12-03-2004, 04:54 PM
What a blunder in design and timing (IMHO).

I agree. The worst thing is that this could have been soooooo good. :? It's a total missed opportunity and that's where a lot of the disappointment is coming from. :|

Jerry Raia
12-03-2004, 06:34 PM
This on the heels of the MPx220 fiasco! Motorola, you have lost touch with reality. :idontthinkso:

CPhoenix
12-03-2004, 11:21 PM
I've gotta say, I've been waiting more than 6 months for this phone to be released, thinking all this time is gonna be a huge hit! (secretly I was hoping for a PDA / Smartphone crossover however this is sadly not going to be the case).
32Mb will definately cripple it and hold it back from ever achieving the status of the other top ranked phones.

I've lost my faith in Motorola now.. and I as damn sure aint going back to Nokia. My contract ran out ages ago for my current phone whilst waiting for the MPX and I'm left without a decent &amp; stylish phone to goto.

yslee
12-03-2004, 11:50 PM
I saw December in SE Asia and I got real happy..

then I saw 32mb, which actually isn't too bad if it's all available for use as program memory..

But it's not. What a screw up. -_-

Now it's back to waiting for the Benq P50.. zzzzzz

bnycastro
12-04-2004, 02:36 AM
@Paragon: Thanks for your reply. Would it be possible to have 2 SD cards for example (and hopefully) a 256MB+WiFi and a 1GB card with the same apps installed in them? Should I just copy the contents of one card to the other or should I install the apps again on the PPC with the second card? This won't mess up the registry or anything right? I was thinking this would be the best solution for a single slot device without WiFi, is this possible? TIA :D

jlp
12-04-2004, 03:54 AM
It's been TEN friggin months this device was officially presented: GSM World in February in Canne, South of France. I think some people were talking about it before so it's just about a year now.

It's really a shame that a device with great engineering and innovations is put to premature death with UNUSABLE specs.

AND PLEASE don't tell me this is NOT a power user device!! Non power users will get a simple phone or a simple smartphone or even a WM Smartphone.

This has (almost) it all: Wi-Fi, BT, GSM, PocketPC and power user apps: multimedia WM player, MS Reader, P.Word, P.XL, P.Outlook, MSN Messenger, VNC (?), etc. Unique and very innovative 2 hinged screen and an integrated thumbkeyboard, a 1.2 MPix digicam with flash, etc. Unfortunately it's killed with the low hardware specs: low spec CPU, tiny memory size and standard battery (tho an enhanced one is available).

Anybody who thinks or worst says the MPx is NOT a power user device doesn't understand the market!!! and incidently doesn't understand the differences between a power user device and an entry level one :bangin: :splat:.

AND i'm very afraid these M guys DON'T understand neitheir the market nor the devices that makes it 8O :? Boooooooo

Paragon
12-04-2004, 04:55 AM
@Paragon: Thanks for your reply. Would it be possible to have 2 SD cards for example (and hopefully) a 256MB+WiFi and a 1GB card with the same apps installed in them? Should I just copy the contents of one card to the other or should I install the apps again on the PPC with the second card? This won't mess up the registry or anything right? I was thinking this would be the best solution for a single slot device without WiFi, is this possible? TIA :D

Hmmm... this can get a bit tricky sometimes. Most times you should be able to just copy the files over. As long as your device doesn't recognize each card differently (storage card 1, storage card 2 and so on). What used to work good for that is to have a set of short cuts for each card....but to be honest you should be ok without them.

Dave

bnycastro
12-04-2004, 05:50 AM
Thanks a bunch Dave :D sorry I've been calling you paragon was only looking at the user name not the signature. Silly me!

Phoenix
12-04-2004, 10:31 AM
...AND PLEASE don't tell me this is NOT a power user device!! Non power users will get a simple phone or a simple smartphone or even a WM Smartphone...

I agree.

...i'm very afraid these M guys DON'T understand... the market nor the devices...

I would agree with this, in part, as well. With this MPx blunder, Motorola has shown that any number of the following possibilities are true:

1) They have no power users on their design team.
2) They DO have power users on their design team but are not listening to them.
3) They do not understand which audience is most attracted to the MPx, and as a result, who their marketing efforts will reach whether they like it or not.
4) Few or none of the decison makers actually use devices like the MPx.
5) Therefore, they do not seem to have a fullness of understanding about the the device they're making.
6) They aren't/haven't been listening enough to consumers regarding the MPx and what we want and demand from a device of this nature/caliber.
7) They don't care about what consumers want regarding the MPx.
8.) And less likely (and not that I believe this), but still possible - someone very high up at Motorola is choosing to sabotage the project (for Lord knows what reason - I've seen it happen) by placing limits on certain specs, which will essentially drive nails into its coffin before it even hits the shelves.

And yes, I realize that #8 is a stretch - I don't buy into that one, myself - I'm only speculating possibilities, but all the others I either believe or at least believe are possible.


I want nothing more than for this device to succeed. More than anything - and I know there are many who share the same sentiments - I want to buy the MPx, and I want it to be everything that I'm hoping for. It can be, but not with its current processor and not with its current memory capacity. And without the improvements and additions I list below, buying the MPx is sadly out of the question.

64MB of RAM will not be enough. They're going to need at least 128MB of RAM and at the very least, 64MB of ROM (but preferrably 128MB of ROM).

Motorola needs to put a much faster processor into the MPx as well. Whether TI has something much faster (or whether Moto has any ability to go with XScale (like a PXA27x at nothing less than 500+MHz) which, of course, may not be possible at this point), or Moto has other options, however they do it, they need a much faster processor. They MUST understand that a device like this becomes completely useless/irrelevant in spite of its features (no matter how many) if it is underpowered and sluggish, inefficient and ineffective due to weak processor power and insufficient memory. Who cares about the feature set if the thing won't function properly and efficiently day in and day out? - it'd be nothing more than an expensive paper weight.


Here's to hoping that Moto makes the smart decisions - the right decisons, and makes the following improvements/additions:

(UPDATED)

1) Equip the MPx with a MUCH faster processor.
2) Equip the MPx with 128MB of RAM/64MB of ROM (preferrably 128MB of ROM).
3) Add video capture capability to the camera.
4) Dramatically improve the quality of the camera.
5) Make the MPx quad-band capable (why give the MPx 220 this feature, but not give the more expensive, flagship MPx device the same feature? Makes no sense not to).
6) Make sure the Bluetooth is the new 1.2 spec for superior performance.
7) Include the extended battery at no extra cost (because we'll need it and the device will already be expensive enough as it is).
8.) Include a desktop charger that can charge both the device and a second battery simultaneously (VERY important!!!).

Ultimately, all eight of these additions will be either VITAL or at least very helpful to the success of the MPx.


Moto would score many extra points in the marketplace if they would also give the MPx the capability to handle EDGE.

Beyond that, what would I like to see for the future of the MPx? VGA screen, PTT (push-to-talk), full GPS, FM radio, a D-pad (in addition to the three buttons already there) and a bigger screen on the front for better digital voice recording and digital music navigation and control (and maybe even remote control operation), biometric access, integrated HDD, and photo-caller-ID on the front screen. Of course, a few of the things in this paragraph I believe Moto already had plans to add in the future (at least according to their migration path), and the rest of it, well... I can hope for the future, can't I? :wink:

yslee
12-04-2004, 03:12 PM
Phoneix, I think 128mb RAM is a bit much. Given how I've seen most people use PPCs, 64mb is good, especially if there's going to be a good amount of ROM available. 32mb is little given it's PPCPE, but I think 64mb would be ok.

As for the CPU, well, the Benq P50 has a Bulvedre CPU, but the word from that Chinese review was that it had poor battery life, which will probably translate to so-so battery life in final production models. The HTC Blue Angel has that same problem, with some users not being able to get a whole day's use out of it. I think 500mhz is a bit over the top in this case.I'd personally be happy with the 312 mhz version, after all, it's definitely faster than the slow TI OMAP processor!

I think Motorola's biggest mistake is in defining the target market of this phone. They're going after the users of Symbian phones runnig Nokia's Series 60 interface, like the Nokia 7610, Nokia 6600 and Siemens SX-1, and given the general profile of the users, I'm sure the specs will suit them just fine (until running the multiple radios while browsing in PIE, that is). These users tend to prefer glitz, and most don't install much 3rd party applications in their phones. See the newly launched Motorola E680 as another example of a phone targeting the Nokia Series 60 phones.

MobileAGBell
12-04-2004, 04:09 PM
I don't think Motorola knows how to market this device. And I'm not yet convinced it will be marketed, at least in the configuration described in this thread.

I am a Nokia Series 60 user with a 6620 handset. I hate the ergonomics of this thing but I love the OS. And I have purchased and installed several third-party apps. Some of the apps are PocketPC-like but this is definitely not a PPC-like device. It is a phone. I believe the Motorola MPx220 is targeted to the Series 60 user and the MPx is targeted to, well, I'm not sure where it's targeted. Apparently Motorola doesn't either.

As a heavy Outlook user in a corporate environment, I also carry an hx4705 with my Nokia 6620. I use both every business day. It would be nice to carry only one device but it will not happen with the MPx. The nearest ideal solution I found was with my hp 5555 PPC with the PC-card sleeve, equipped with a Sierra Wireless AirCard 750. Unfortunately, this rig is unacceptably large to carry everywhere.

Motorola should spin off the handset division to someone that can bring compelling technology to market. Not just flashy hardware but complete products. I'm high on the list waiting for one of those products.

DaleReeck
12-04-2004, 06:58 PM
I'm sure some marketing dorks over at Motorola got a focus group together and saw that their #1 concern about phones was battery life. So they designed the entire phone (32MB, small QVGA screen, low processor) around that idea.

Usually, the trap with smartphones is that us "power" users think that we are representative of the entire population when we are only a small minority. In most cases, the average "joe user" would find a phone with lower than expected power user specs to be more than sufficient. A perfect example is the Treo 650. A lot of the power users are whining about that device's own memory issue (files take up more space than on the 600 due to larger sector size). But for most everyone, including many power users, the phone will be fine once they work out a few software bugs.

But in this case, Motorola is about to find out that in not going to happen. Even if a person used it for nothing more than web browsing and email, 32MB would still be insifficient due to the OS requirements, temp files, junk, etc. I forsee a lot of initial purchases followed by a lot of returns because the device just won't perform right. I believe there will be a lot of purchases because, 32MB memory or not, it's still an intriguing device. But when even regualr non-power users see that IE keeps crashing or is horrendously slow, or a lot of emails start locking up their device, they are goig to return it plain and simple.

Throw in the usual smartphone issues (mainly bugs - don't foget, not only is this a new design concept, but it's also Motorola's first PPC device) and it could be a disaster - especially considering how much time (and presumably money) they spent developing this thing.

Perhaps, as someone already mentioned, if carriers raise concerns about the memory or other performaces, maybe Motorola will update the design with more memory. But of course, we are talking another delay of many months and Motorla at that point may just say "enough" and dump the project - another in a long line of legendary phone concepts that never see the light of day.

Jerry Raia
12-04-2004, 07:25 PM
We already know how Motorola can let something out the door half baked. Just look at the MPx220.

Phoenix
12-04-2004, 10:26 PM
Phoneix, I think 128mb RAM is a bit much. Given how I've seen most people use PPCs, 64mb is good, especially if there's going to be a good amount of ROM available. 32mb is little given it's PPCPE, but I think 64mb would be ok.

Considering that the OS would be utilizing some of this in addition to the programs, 64MB would be the absolute minimum, but I fear even this would ultimately make things too tight. I will say that I would gladly take 64MB over its present capacity, but with who this product attracts and all we do with our Pocket PC's, 128MB is absolutely not too much. I'd rather have a little more over and above what I might use initially than just barely having enough and end up pushing my device to its brink. There has to be room for growth. I might have a device like this for two years or more - who's to say what I'll be doing with it throughout that time? Palm has offered 256MB of total memory on at least one of its handhelds. Why not the MPx?

EDIT:
IMate is offering their JAM PPC Phone device, but a "JAM 2" (might have a different name) will be out sometime (I believe in the first half of) next year with 128MB of RAM, and with added Quad-band, WiFi, and EDGE capability, in addition to its present feature set. The MPx is just going to have to step up its game here and offer 128MB (as well as other changes/additions) just to stay competitive and worth the money.

As for the CPU, well, the Benq P50 has a Bulvedre CPU, but the word from that Chinese review was that it had poor battery life, which will probably translate to so-so battery life in final production models. The HTC Blue Angel has that same problem, with some users not being able to get a whole day's use out of it. I think 500mhz is a bit over the top in this case.I'd personally be happy with the 312 mhz version, after all, it's definitely faster than the slow TI OMAP processor!

...I'm thinking in terms of power users and what many of us look for. I'm also thinking in terms of the fact that Moto offers their extended battery, which I believe would alleviate a lot of the battery concerns...

EDIT:
I have to say, after thinking it through more, that in terms of the processor, I wouldn't want to see anything less than the equivalent of an XScale @ 416MHz. IMate's new JAM PPC Phone has this processor (PXA270), and it's perfect. The MPx would benefit from this type of power and would function perfectly with this type of processor at this speed along with the increase in memory to 128MB of RAM.

griph
12-05-2004, 02:35 PM
Ehh, actually I'd take one for free. :wink:
Yeah! I suppose you could always use it as a door stop, or something to wedge that wobbly leg on the patio table. ;-)

griph
12-05-2004, 02:41 PM
As I mentioned before, they do offer an extended battery for the MPx of around 2300mAh, so there's a solution to battery life issues right there.
That just adds to the bulk of the device! You would have difficulty sticking it in a pocket - unless you are wearing Cargo pants! The thing's big enough already! The more I heear about the MPx the worse it gets! What year was it designed again? &lt;fx: shakes head> I can't understand why we are still talking about it! Its a total white elephant!

griph
12-05-2004, 02:50 PM
:Wake me up when it's released.
Dont bother waking me up then - wait till something worthwhile comes along!

:I honestly don't see this device making a terribly huge impact in the market.
You are quite wrong ;-). The MPx wont make ANY impact at all! It will fade away into the twilight, and they wont be able to give it away, except to those "people" out there who have a predeliction for white elephants! The typical MPx owner will be driving around in a DeLorean - or possibly an Austin Maestro. :lol:

Darius Wey
12-05-2004, 04:42 PM
You are quite wrong ;-). The MPx wont make ANY impact at all! It will fade away into the twilight, and they wont be able to give it away, except to those "people" out there who have a predeliction for white elephants! The typical MPx owner will be driving around in a DeLorean - or possibly an Austin Maestro. :lol:

You've been daydreaming, haven't you? :mrgreen:

Phoenix
12-06-2004, 09:20 AM
As I mentioned before, they do offer an extended battery for the MPx of around 2300mAh, so there's a solution to battery life issues right there.
That just adds to the bulk of the device! You would have difficulty sticking it in a pocket - unless you are wearing Cargo pants! The thing's big enough already! The more I heear about the MPx the worse it gets! What year was it designed again? &lt;fx: shakes head> I can't understand why we are still talking about it! Its a total white elephant!

All these complaints about a little size or weight - Wimps! :lol: j/k But seriously, I don't find it bulky, myself. And definitely not when it's opened. Now granted, the extended battery will certainly increase the thickness, but I say who cares? Sure, I'd love to have an MPx with the dual hinge design no thicker than a Moto Razr, but right now that's not possible and if someone wants all the technology the MPx offers in one package - they're either going to have to go with something tall, wide, and thin, or they're going to have to go with something shorter, narrower, and thicker. There's just no other way around that right now. The main thing for me, is that I have all the technologies I desire in one compact unit like the MPx. To have all that in the palm of my hand, I'll live with a bit of extra size.

yslee
12-06-2004, 05:29 PM
c'mon, the HTC Blue Angel and Harrier aren't exactly small devices too!

Jonathon Watkins
12-06-2004, 07:20 PM
c'mon, the HTC Blue Angel and Harrier aren't exactly small devices too!

Umm, the Harrier certainly is small. I've held one in my hands and will be getting one next weekend. There is such a thing as *too* small. ;-)

Oudkerk
12-06-2004, 10:17 PM
For the size and battery live of small mobile formfactor you can't expect it to have a 128mb/256mb memory and 500mhz processor. That's like wanting a fast sports car with superior road stability in the size of a Mercedes Smart http://www.smart.com/is-bin/intershop.static/WFS/mpc-nl-content-Site/-/nl_NL/images/modelfinder/MCC_37_large.jpg

But 64mb sould be a good trade-off between battery life and usability. I guess that the Motorola marketing folks are focussing on a target-audience for this phone that doesn't exists; want-gimics in a phone and don't use it like a power-user, want very long battery life, doesn't want to use it for more then one app at a time and are willing to put $750 down for it.

If you have read about Motorola being kicked-off the 2nd place by Samsung in Q3 mobile sales and followed the MPx220 Launch-soap, it appears that it is a mess at the Marketing department from Motorola.
At MPX200.org an Motorola employee already seems to have said that the first MPx300 product wouldn't be much, but its successor would be a real hit, having it all. The current model being released Q12005 would only be a market trail. In it's succor Motorola wants to implement all of the shortcommings of the MPx300.
I doubt if mailing to Motorola about adding memory to the current MPx300 model would help. If the Marketing people keep focused on their targeted-audience for this phone, they will just ignore the enthusiast markt/power users for this device.

Jonathon Watkins
12-06-2004, 11:27 PM
Welcome Oudkerk. :) Bent u Nederlands?

If the Marketing people keep focused on their targeted-audience for this phone, they will just ignore the enthusiast markt/power users for this device.

So the target market is for folks who want a phone who's features won't work half the time without a soft reset? Folks who want a system that keeps getting 'out of memory' errors every time you try to open more than one app at time? :idontthinkso:

I wonder if Motorla see that the argument here is not that 64Mb is necessary for power users. It is that 64Mb is a minimum for this PPC to be usable to just about anyone. In it's current form, it is crippled and that's the sad thing. It did not have to be like this. :|

Good analogy about the smart car, but even that can do a decent speed on the motorway and won't get mown down by the other cars. :wink:

Phoenix
12-07-2004, 12:21 AM
I'm sure some marketing dorks over at Motorola got a focus group together and saw that their #1 concern about phones was battery life. So they designed the entire phone (32MB, small QVGA screen, low processor) around that idea.

Very possible - I wouldn't be surprised. Along with an increase in processor power and memory, quite frankly, I would've also liked to have seen Moto put in a VGA screen as well.


Usually, the trap with smartphones is that us "power" users think that we are representative of the entire population when we are only a small minority.

We aren't representative of the entire population, but I don't believe we're as small of a group as people think. I see more and more people are discovering new ways to use their devices and are wanting to do more and more with the technology - our group is growing and I think we've become much larger. Also, it's very important that we also take into consideration who will buy said product. In this case, "Average Joe" will not be the primary audience here, and won't be purchasing an MPx.

What's significant about power-users, is that in the case of a feature-laden device like the MPx, we know what's best for the device. What I mean by that is, if a product like this can meet the requirements of the most demanding user, it will meet everyone elses. Although companies must determine what features a product should or shouldn't have, power-users obviously should not be ignored, especially with a device like the MPx, who it's clearly catered to.

I also think it's important to understand exactly what a power-user is. A power-user is not just some "over-clocking-performance-junkie" who goes out of his way to push his device to the absolute brink. And he's not just some "experimental-mad-inventive-scientist" type who goes out of his way to find new-fangled ways of using his device so that he can do everything under the sun with it. A power-user is also just simply someone who searches for a feature-rich device, understands the technologies, and will actually make use of them. Anyone who doesn't fit this profile wouldn't be searching for, and certainly wouldn't buy, a device of this caliber in the first place. If you are or do, you're a power-user. Someone who only wants to make some calls, store some photos and to-do lists, and play some games, won't be buying this type of device as it would be overkill for his needs. The MPx is for someone who, for example, wants to take advantage of the wireless and multitasking capabilities that a device like this could offer - such as taking a GSM call through his BT earpiece while browsing the net via WiFi, all at the same time. It's for someone who wants to make use of it as a multimedia device - watching movies, shooting videos, listening to music, or utilizing it as a GPS unit, among other things. No device offers this kind of feature set without begging to be fully utilized, otherwise, what's the point of owning it? A power-user is someone who will search for these features, buy a device like this, and make full use of what it has to offer.

In most cases, the average "joe user" would find a phone with lower than expected power user specs to be more than sufficient...

I think this is too broad of a statement, because finding truth in those words largely depends on what kind of device we're talking about. In terms of the MPx, there are very few products out there that match it in terms of what they offer, and any device like the MPx will always need high-end specs to support its feature set and to function properly. Otherwise, it crumbles under the weight of its own features, in spite of itself - but of course, we know this. I say it anyway, because it doesn't seem that Moto understood this.

...But in this case, Motorola is about to find out that is not going to happen. Even if a person used it for nothing more than web browsing and email, 32MB would still be insifficient due to the OS requirements, temp files, junk, etc. I forsee a lot of initial purchases followed by a lot of returns because the device just won't perform right. I believe there will be a lot of purchases because, 32MB memory or not, it's still an intriguing device. But when even regualr non-power users see that IE keeps crashing or is horrendously slow, or a lot of emails start locking up their device, they are goig to return it plain and simple.

Agreed. Except that once again, the primary audience for this device will not be the average user.

******************

I'll tell you what I'd like to see, ultimately, with a device like the MPx: customization. I'd like to build a convergence device according to my specs (from a list of offered choices) like you would a PC.

I'd like to choose the processor, the storage capacity, the color, the wireless options, maybe even the screen resolution. People could configure it according to their specific desires.

I'd like to start seeing the ability to build small devices in this way. And this way, everyone could get what they want.

Phoenix
12-07-2004, 12:52 AM
For the size and battery live of small mobile formfactor you can't expect it to have a 128mb/256mb memory and 500mhz processor. That's like wanting a fast sports car with superior road stability in the size of a Mercedes Smart.

Clever analogy, but not applicable here. A car is not a convergence device, and vice versa.

Take a look at the iMate JAM. This is a very small GSM-based PPC Phone with an XScale 416Mhz processor (which is what I believe the MPx should have and isn't too far away from the 500MHz I had initially suggested), a 2.8" screen, BT, and 64MB RAM/64MB ROM, and excellent battery life (even with an SD WiFi card added). They're adding WiFi internally as well and bumping the RAM up to 128MB, next year. The only thing the JAM 2 won't have, is an integrated keyboard. But it's also much thinner than the MPx (albeit a bit longer, but virtually the same width). These are the specs I'd like to see in the MPx.

I wouldn't expect 128MB of RAM, and 256MB of ROM (or whatever you were suggesting above), but 128MB of RAM, and 64MB of ROM is not unreasonable. (I just think for the price the MPx is slated to sell at, the ROM should be 128MB as well, but 64MB of ROM would be acceptable). And once again, the extended battery will mostly alleviate battery concerns, as it's 1960mAh.

Moto needs to step up its game if it wants this thing to succeed.

..I guess that the Motorola marketing folks are focussing on a target-audience for this phone that doesn't exists; want-gimics in a phone and don't use it like a power-user, want very long battery life, doesn't want to use it for more then one app at a time and are willing to put $750 down for it.

Apparently, that does sadly seem to be the case. I hope they show us it isn't.

If you have read about Motorola being kicked-off the 2nd place by Samsung in Q3 mobile sales and followed the MPx220 Launch-soap, it appears that it is a mess at the Marketing department from Motorola.
At MPX200.org an Motorola employee already seems to have said that the first MPx300 product wouldn't be much, but its successor would be a real hit, having it all. The current model being released Q12005 would only be a market trail. In it's succor Motorola wants to implement all of the shortcommings of the MPx300.
I doubt if mailing to Motorola about adding memory to the current MPx300 model would help. If the Marketing people keep focused on their targeted-audience for this phone, they will just ignore the enthusiast markt/power users for this device.

If all of that is true, it's bittersweet - bad that it won't have what it needs, but at least there would be some light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully, it wouldn't be long. And if v2.0 is to have the MPx's weaknesses dealt with, then it sounds like the suggestions I made are in fact, entirely possible. For Moto's sake as well as ours, if there really is to be another attempt at the MPx, they better make certain they do things right the second time around!

Oudkerk
12-07-2004, 10:34 PM
Welcome Oudkerk. :) Bent u Nederlands?

Yes I am Dutch. :mrgreen:

So the target market is for folks who want a phone who's features won't work half the time without a soft reset? Folks who want a system that keeps getting 'out of memory' errors every time you try to open more than one app at time? :idontthinkso:

If you would use the MPx for very light applications (the one standard installed with the OS) and use them one at a time, have a lot of patience, 32mb might be just enough. Here (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=5c7c32c52bd4efc54df71503c245783b&amp;threadid=463648&amp;perpage=15&amp;pagenumber=1) there is a thread about users who have bought the ES models from eBay. Maybe I register to ask how their 32mb's ES MPx'es went.

Good analogy about the smart car, but even that can do a decent speed on the motorway and won't get mown down by the other cars. :wink: Well don't get in the left lane of the highway with this kind of women car when I am it with my Alfa 156 http://www.alfaromeo.nl/restyle/alfa_156/images/foto1_center2.jpg
:twisted:

@Phoenix; well stated I thing that the Power users will be the No 1 customers for this kind of nich-market devices. Average joe's who want a glossy device don't put up $750 for a device and business users will go for the 'save' business brands like Nokia or SonyEricson. It's like the Athlon (Opteron), the power user community will be the first to embrass it; for it's technical spec's instead of it's brand-image. But for marketing people we power users are probably not the most fanciest target-audience/focusgroup to think of for a product. They probably preffer business user, for which there is a clear marketing profile in their marketing research. We just don't fit into their picture!

And once again, the extended battery will mostly alleviate battery concerns, as it's around 2300mAh.

You' re sure? 2300mAh? Thats about half mine Laptop battery and that one is about 30 to 40 times the size of a phone battery. The current MPx battery has 950mAh. Could they just tripple this cappacity in the same size or am I missing something?
[/url]

griph
12-07-2004, 11:40 PM
c'mon, the HTC Blue Angel and Harrier aren't exactly small devices too!

Blue Angel = 125 x 71.6 x 18.7 mm
MPx = 99.7 x 61.2 x 24 mm

The Blue Angel at 18.7mm puts it in the high end of most PPC's at the moment. The MPx at 24mm is 30% thicker, and with a bolt on battery is going to be a canoe in your pocket! The MPx might be smaller in width and length, but I always find the biggest issue to be the thickness!

griph
12-07-2004, 11:52 PM
You' re sure? 2300mAh? Thats about half mine Laptop battery and that one is about 30 to 40 times the size of a phone battery. The current MPx battery has 950mAh. Could they just tripple this cappacity in the same size or am I missing something?
[/url]

No you are not missing anything. No one has mentioned physical size yet. I'd bet that a 2300mAh battery is going to be substantially bigger than the standard 950mAh and make the already overweight MPx obese!

Phoenix
12-08-2004, 02:36 AM
...You' re sure? 2300mAh? Thats about half mine Laptop battery and that one is about 30 to 40 times the size of a phone battery. The current MPx battery has 950mAh. Could they just tripple this cappacity in the same size or am I missing something?
[/url]

I misquoted (I'll edit my other posts). It's 1960mAh. But that's still good capacity. And yes, it does thicken the MPx, but for me, I don't care. What matters to me most, is that I can have a powerful, feature rich device that will run all day.

Keep in mind, when it's open, it won't feel so thick. I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. Sure, I'd like it thinner, but until we get next gen battery technology, this is the only way to do it. You can see photos of the MPx with the bigger battery here: MPx with Extended Battery (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=1a0442d72e28fd0a9bf3c0e602810ce6&amp;threadid=460757)

Go ahead and fire away, Griph! :lol:

bnycastro
12-08-2004, 02:55 AM
phoenix: I'm surprised you're still waiting for the MPx (with that kind of mem config it might as most people are saying be un-useable as a PPC PE device) anyway to each his own. For me performance matters the most. Then running time. Then size. But to each his own I guess :D

Phoenix
12-08-2004, 03:08 AM
phoenix: I'm surprised you're still waiting for the MPx (with that kind of mem config it might as most people are saying be un-useable as a PPC PE device) anyway to each his own. For me performance matters the most. Then running time. Then size. But to each his own I guess :D

I guess I don't understand what you're saying in your first sentence. Why would it be unuseable with 128MB RAM/64MB ROM? That's not unreasonable to ask for. 32MB is what will make the device unuseable. Some devices already have 128MB RAM/64MB ROM (which really isn't much to begin with), and others are slated to upgrade to this amount earlier next year. The MPx should, too.

Performance to me is also the first thing I care about. (Are you getting me mixed up with someone else, maybe?). In addition to the memory increase, I want to see an XScale processor in here - maybe a Bulverde running at somewhere between 400 and 500 MHz. So performance is #1 on my list.

Your list and mine are the same: Performance first, battery life second, size third. That's what I've been saying all along in my posts.

:D

bnycastro
12-08-2004, 03:23 AM
Yeah what I meant is isn't the MPx coming out with 32MB ram only or has Moto bumped this up to something more than 32MB already?

Phoenix
12-08-2004, 03:25 AM
For the size and battery live of small mobile formfactor you can't expect it to have a 128mb/256mb memory and 500mhz processor...

Here's an example of a PPC Phone that does (just thought I'd point it out): HP Smartphone (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=52a568e2e02aea66ff8295f86b3e008e&amp;threadid=515070)

Phoenix
12-08-2004, 03:33 AM
Yeah what I meant is isn't the MPx coming out with 32MB ram only or has Moto bumped this up to something more than 32MB already?

Well, that's what we've been discussing. According to this thread, Moto has plans to release the phone with only 32MB RAM and no more. Unless someone has new word of that not being the case and just isn't saying anything, 32MB is the way it's apparently going to be, which would be a real shame.

If it is indeed released with only 32MB, I won't be buying it. I'll go with another manufacturer altogether - maybe an iMate.

Oudkerk
12-08-2004, 09:54 PM
phoenix: For me performance matters the most. Then running time. Then size. But to each his own I guess :D

Well that's what I tried to explain by the car example, the MPx is a comprimise between in the first place size, features, battery life (and probably last (the fact that M sacrifises performance for battery life) performance. If performance is your no 1 priority the MPx shouldn't be the device your are looking for, no mather how much you like the keyboard. Bigger sized devices, PDA size, should be your target. You can't expect Motorola at this moment to put full PDA performance in a device that is smaller and additionaly has phone and camera functionality.

Here's an example of a PPC Phone that does (just thought I'd point it out): HP Smartphone (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=52a568e2e02aea66ff8295f86b3e008e&amp;threadid=515070)

Well to me that look a lot bigger then the MPx, almost the size of a PDA and it doesn't have a keyboard.

Talking about nicely shaped devices how do you US based folks like the Alfa Romeo :mrgreen:? These cars aren' t available yet in the US but in 2005/2006 Alfa wants to launch new models in the US as well.

Phoenix
12-08-2004, 11:27 PM
...Well that's what I tried to explain by the car example, the MPx is a comprimise between...size, features, battery life...

The MPx doesn't have to compromise to the degree that it currently is.


...If performance is your no 1 priority the MPx shouldn't be the device your are looking for...

With it's current configuration, it obviously isn't. But it should be. This device won't run properly with its current processor and memory capacity. It's very nature is to be a power performer, otherwise, as I mentioned before, it will crumble under the weight of its own features. The question is, does Moto realize this yet, and are they working to fix it?

Many of us desire it, because it has all the other features that we want and that make up a powerful device - we all just want the memory and processor to be appropriate and to allow it to function properly.


...You can't expect Motorola at this moment to put full PDA performance in a device that is smaller and additionaly has phone and camera functionality.

Says who? Of course, we can expect that (read one of my other posts to see what iMate is doing with their tiny little JAM device). Moto never said they couldn't stuff more memory and a faster processor in there - it's not a space issue (as far as I know, anyway), they just said they chose less memory and a slower processor because they wanted to keep battery life at a certain point with the stock battery (which is too small to begin with). But the extended battery would solve any battery life concerns from having a faster processor and more memory. So of course, they can. You need to understand that they will HAVE to, or this product will not function properly and remain competitive in the marketplace.


Here's an example of a PPC Phone that does (just thought I'd point it out): HP Smartphone (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=52a568e2e02aea66ff8295f86b3e008e&amp;threadid=515070)

Well to me that look a lot bigger then the MPx, almost the size of a PDA...

Not quite. This HP Smartphone (which apparently is being dubbed the iPAQ SwingPhone) has a 2.8" screen (which by the way, is VGA, unlike the MPx). No larger than the MPx's screen. And the chassis clearly isn't any larger.

Take a look at this photo of the HP iPAQ SwingPhone (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/parts/image_for_link/76605-20488-4-2.html).

Now take a look at this photo of the Motorola MPx (http://www.mobileburn.com/gallery.jsp?Page=4&amp;Id=666).

Doesn't look much bigger than the MPx to me.

...and it doesn't have a keyboard.

But it does have a keypad - which is why it slides up like it does. You could see that in the photos I linked to, above. Not to mention, it's not a clamshell-based design like the MPx, which would have provided HP with more room to fit a keyboard in the first place. But when you take a close look at the the photo of the HP slid open, it's keypad and buttons put together, collectively, are almost the same width and height of the keyboard found in the MPx. However, ultimately this has nothing to do with Moto's ability to upgrade the memory and processor.

The bottom line is, there's simply no excuse for the MPx having the memory or processor it currently has. Moto built the thing from scratch and could do whatever they want.

bnycastro
12-09-2004, 02:34 AM
The bottom line is, there's simply no excuse for the MPx having the memory or processor it currently has. Moto built the thing from scratch and could do whatever they want.

you're absolutely correct! moto has excuse for this... well unless they say they are intentionally trying their very very best not to make it in the smartphone or converged device market.

BTW the hp korea ppc pe device is made by LG (and I think it is made for korean market only... lucky lucky koreans... first jeon ji hyun now this hehehe :mrgreen: )

galt
12-09-2004, 02:44 AM
Wow, I thought I was an obsessed MPx fan, but I appear to have met my match in Phoenix. 8O :lol:

Evidence of my now fading MPx lust (these mosaics were created from tons of MPx pics I kept on file):
http://home.comcast.net/~omalfar/stuff/MPX_Mosaic_1.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~omalfar/stuff/MPX_Mosaic_2.JPG

bnycastro
12-09-2004, 03:15 AM
@Galt: how did you do this? 8O
1) did you use a special mosaic program - may i ask what it is?
2) photoshop - can compete with phoenix's obsession.
3) just ms paint - then you're the UBER MPx guy for me! :)

galt
12-09-2004, 03:23 AM
@Galt: how did you do this? 8O
1) did you use a special mosaic program - may i ask what it is?
2) photoshop - can compete with phoenix's obsession.
3) just ms paint - then you're the UBER MPx guy for me! :)

I have zero art skills, I used a (free) program called Andrea Mosaic (I think Engadget.com had a bit on it a few months ago:
http://andreaplanet.com/andreamosaic/

I've always loved mosaics, this software makes it very easy to make them!

bnycastro
12-09-2004, 03:25 AM
thanks galt :P maybe I will do this with some of my pics (non-MPX) as well!

Darius Wey
12-09-2004, 03:35 AM
2) photoshop - can compete with phoenix's obsession.

It's definitely Photoshop-able as well. But free programs that do the job are always the best replacements. ;)

Jason Dunn
12-09-2004, 06:06 AM
This is officially the wackiest thread I've read in a long time. :lol:

bnycastro
12-09-2004, 06:13 AM
why thank you jason, we aim to please :rotfl:

Phoenix
12-09-2004, 08:22 AM
Wow, I thought I was an obsessed MPx fan, but I appear to have met my match in Phoenix. 8O :lol:

:lol: Well, hey, what can I say? I love technology. And I love seeing a company work on what I think could be a homerun. The MPx is about the closest thing I've seen to it - at least to me, anyway, so yes, I'm pretty enthusiastic about it! :clap:

I like the mosaics :way to go:

This is officially the wackiest thread I've read in a long time. :lol:

Wackiest? :? I don't get it. Man, you must read some really boring threads then. :lol:

Darius Wey
12-09-2004, 11:45 AM
Wackiest? :? I don't get it. Man, you must read some really boring threads then. :lol:

Wacky? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, it's definitely a popular thread. 10 pages so far. :mrgreen:

Jonathon Watkins
12-09-2004, 11:53 AM
Either way, it's definitely a popular thread. 10 pages so far. :mrgreen:

True - a popular thread about an unpopular decision; the unnecessary crippling of what promised to be a very exiting contender in the PPC world. :?

Darius Wey
12-09-2004, 12:10 PM
True - a popular thread about an unpopular decision; the unnecessary crippling of what promised to be a very exiting contender in the PPC world. :?

You know what they say: "You can't whip a dead horse..." ;)

Phoenix
12-09-2004, 01:59 PM
...You know what they say: "You can't whip a dead horse..." ;)

Wanna bet? :lol: :lol:

Phoenix
12-09-2004, 02:19 PM
This is what the final MPx will look like, and this is how old we'll all be when it's finally released: :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.pbase.com/az1/image/37306467/original.jpg

Jonathon Watkins
12-09-2004, 02:26 PM
This is what the final MPx will look like, and this is how old we'll all be when it's finally released:


Harsh, but.... very funny. :lol:

Darius Wey
12-09-2004, 04:54 PM
This is what the final MPx will look like, and this is how old we'll all be when it's finally released:

I agree with Jonathon. As an FYI, I still have one of those phones lying around the house somewhere. And no, I don't use it. 8)

Phoenix
12-09-2004, 09:50 PM
Harsh, but.... very funny. :lol:

:lol: I wasn't being harsh, I just thought it was funny! We all take this stuff so seriously, we have to balance it with a good sense of humor, too! :silly:

Oudkerk
12-09-2004, 10:17 PM
Take a look at this photo of the HP iPAQ SwingPhone (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/parts/image_for_link/76605-20488-4-2.html).

Doesn't look much bigger than the MPx to me.

The bottom line is, there's simply no excuse for the MPx having the memory or processor it currently has. Moto built the thing from scratch and could do whatever they want.

Phoenix, agreed the HP is the almost the same size, nice device. Regarding the extra memory I agree, adding a missery extra 32mb could hardly hurdle the battery life much more. Regarding the processor; a faster processor might have a decent battery life with the extended battery model. But the link to thread on Howards forum about this battery a user indicates that is very heavy and many users could preffer the normal light 950mAh version. Giving not much headroom for faster processor. Motorola clearly wants to possition this device as a very portable phone, not as a semi (heavy) PDA (like it or not). An other reason might be that Motorola enginering department has not the experiance or right contacts with Intel xScale technology, so they stick with the OMAP processors.

To be honest we could continue to discuss with eachother here about the MPx, but maybe we should make a last joint effort at getting our thoughs over to Motorola.

Oudkerk
12-10-2004, 02:02 AM
Well too late for any modification to the MPx now. The final version already seems to be determined (http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/5617.html).
Motorola is probably already producing it to get it on the selves januari 2005. Amazing how you can ignore all the testers and other peoples critisism of not increasing the 32mb ram if they only had added 16mb would make quite a difference to the avalable mem after windows is loaded an added 32mb would make it a device that you could take seriously. Now we just all have to wait :( for the first revision, adding more internal memory or wait for the successor (with a faster processor as well) of this nich-market trail product.
Testing a new phone for more then a full year and still f**k it up :? .

Phoenix
12-10-2004, 02:19 AM
Phoenix, agreed the HP is the almost the same size, nice device. Regarding the extra memory I agree, adding a missery extra 32mb could hardly hurdle the battery life much more. Regarding the processor; a faster processor might have a decent battery life with the extended battery model. But the link to thread on Howards forum about this battery a user indicates that is very heavy and many users could preffer the normal light 950mAh version. Giving not much headroom for faster processor. Motorola clearly wants to possition this device as a very portable phone, not as a semi (heavy) PDA (like it or not). An other reason might be that Motorola enginering department has not the experiance or right contacts with Intel xScale technology, so they stick with the OMAP processors.

To be honest we could continue to discuss with eachother here about the MPx, but maybe we should make a last joint effort at getting our thoughs over to Motorola.

The battery is bigger and yes, it would be heavier, but naturally, there's no (or would be no) way around that right now if we want the MPx to last for a good while before having to recharge. Here's to hoping we see new battery technology soon.

And I hear exactly what you're saying, but if Moto doesn't want to position this as a device with the extended battery, then we have to ask, why did they make the battery in the first place? The thing is, they're going to have to place more memory and a faster processor in there one way or another if they want the device to run properly and succeed, which means the battery is going to have to be bigger like it or not in order to run everything. Beyond that, many other concerns are moot. To be honest, I don't think Moto will have any trouble at all marketing this beautiful device once they remedy its shortcomings - even with a bigger battery. What the MPx would offer would be greater than anything else out there and people would snap them up.

I think a huge company like Motorola has the experience to do whatever they want, and certainly has the contacts to obtain whatever they need. This is a massive corporation we're referring to.

This forum may be as good as any at this point for expressing our thoughts, only because Jason touched on the fact that they (or someone from Moto) were/was reading this thread. But I agree with you - it certainly couldn't hurt emailing Moto.

Phoenix
12-10-2004, 02:22 AM
Well too late for any modification to the MPx now. The final version already seems to be determined (http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/5617.html).
Motorola is probably already producing it to get it on the selves januari 2005. Amazing how you can ignore all the testers and other peoples critisism of not increasing the 32mb ram if they only had added 16mb would make quite a difference to the avalable mem after windows is loaded an added 32mb would make it a device that you could take seriously. Now we just all have to wait :( for the first revision, adding more internal memory or wait for the successor (with a faster processor as well) of this nich-market trail product.
Testing a new phone for more then a full year and still f**k it up :? .

Yes, I read this earlier as well. Looks like we very well may be waiting for the MPx 2. :roll:

Oudkerk
12-10-2004, 11:08 PM
Looks like we very well may be waiting for the MPx 2. :roll:

Yep, I just don't hope Motorola takes the developement time of the current MPx for it, 2 year. May be they can come out with a revision of the current model, were the excange the 32mb ram chip for a 64mb one. It would only fix one of the MPx shirtcommings but would have the largest effect with the least minimum design changes (changing the proc to a xScale would require q redesign of bios, and a motherboard redesign of the phone.

bwiley1
12-24-2004, 02:19 AM
I'm not claiming to know how accurrate the information is, but CNET's Bonnie Cha wrote a review on the MPx on 12/14/04 that says the MPx has 64Mb Memory, not 32. Am I looking at the wrong thing here, or is there hope?

Phoenix
12-29-2004, 08:14 AM
I'm not claiming to know how accurrate the information is, but CNET's Bonnie Cha wrote a review on the MPx on 12/14/04 that says the MPx has 64Mb Memory, not 32. Am I looking at the wrong thing here, or is there hope?

I don't know the particulars of her review, but it's possible that she could have been referring to the 64MB of ROM that it has. Or perhaps she knows something we don't.

Time will tell for sure. However, until it's actually released, we won't know, although there has been word that versions of the MPx with 128MB RAM have been released in very limited numbers to certain Moto employees. But who can say for certain?

I will say, though, that an increase in memory alone is going to do little. Moto will absolutely need to upgrade the processor as well (my understanding is that it's currently the equivelant of a 200MHz XScale, which is weak), greatly improve the camera (and add video capture capability as well), and improve the RF. They should also add in a VGA screen as well while they're at it - the MPx would benefit greatly with one. They'll also need quad-band GSM, EDGE capability, and a BT upgrade to 1.2.

I wouldn't buy an MPx myself, simply because it had a memory upgrade. Moto simply screwed up big time on this, and they have a LOT to fix. Back to the drawing board. I'll be waiting for an MPx II.

yslee
12-29-2004, 10:07 AM
I think you're still harping too much on the CPU. Mind, if it can crunch my excel spreadsheets I'm a happy man!

It's December 29 here, and still no sight of the MPx.. so much for a December rollout. :roll:

Phoenix
12-29-2004, 11:25 PM
I think you're still harping too much on the CPU. Mind, if it can crunch my excel spreadsheets I'm a happy man!

The truth is, I'm not harping on it enough. Some people want to work with Excel, but I'm among the many who want enough power to perform media related tasks as well, not to mention the power to properly multitask, and that little wimpy OMAP just ain't gonna cut it.

Peoples' needs are growing, programs are getting more and more sophisticated and are demanding more and more power to run, so a stronger processor is going to be necessary.

yslee
12-31-2004, 01:30 AM
Hey, you haven't seen my spreadsheets yet. :mrgreen:

Who's the Motorola spokesman who said it'd be out by december? I'm ready to skewer him! =P