Why is Outlook so crappy?

[HexiumVII]

Its huge, ugly, and overly complicated. Its calendar view is so ugly, why can't it be simple and useful like the palm desktop. Is there a way to make the calendar look like the palm or change its ugly yellow color?

[Janak Parekh]

Outlook is a more sophisticated program than Palm Desktop, no doubt about it. Give it a few days, though, and you'll come to appreciate some of its features (IMHO, of course).

As for the yellow color, go to Tools => Options => Calendar Options. There's an option to change the background color in there.

--janak

[HexiumVII]

Ugh MS needs to hire some designers and not hardcore dorkers. Contract some people from the style or something geez, most of the other colors aren't much better. Is there a way i can add icons and stuff too? Also Sat/Sun deserve their own blocks!

[Janak Parekh]

Ugh MS needs to hire some designers and not hardcore dorkers.
Believe it or not, Outlook has gone through quite a few design revisions. 8O You don't want to remember Outlook 97 - trust me. (BTW, if you're using an older version of Outlook, e.g., if it came with your Pocket PC, upgrade if you ever get the chance -- they clean up the user interface incrementally with each new release.)

I think it basically boils down to the fact that Outlook is both for end-users and corporate environments. I have to admit, though, that after I got over its learning curve I've come to like a lot of its flexibility and find Palm Desktop very limiting.

Contract some people from the style or something geez, most of the other colors aren't much better.
I've personally gotten used to it.

Is there a way i can add icons and stuff too?
To what? You mean, categories and the like? I don't think so, but labels are reasonably effective.

--janak

[webagogue]

Ugh MS needs to hire some designers and not hardcore dorkers. Contract some people from the style or something geez, most of the other colors aren't much better. Is there a way i can add icons and stuff too? Also Sat/Sun deserve their own blocks!

1. Which version of Outlook are you working with? 2003 is about the best-looking and functioning all-inclusive PIM I've seen. It is no work of art, to be sure, but "ugly," it ain't.

2. In 2003, Tools -> Options -> Calendar Options. Color away!

You can customize views (including calendars) in more ways than you can imagine.

[Darius Wey]

Ugh MS needs to hire some designers and not hardcore dorkers. Contract some people from the style or something geez, most of the other colors aren't much better. Is there a way i can add icons and stuff too? Also Sat/Sun deserve their own blocks!

You can do a lot with Outlook 2003. In addition, you can also give Saturday/Sunday their own "blocks".

[HexiumVII]

03 outlook really did change a lot, but they still have some work to do. When will 05/06 come out? Also how do i make sat/sun in the 31 day view expand and make sunday the start?

[IpaqMan2]

Trust me... No one in this world hated Outlook more than me and I was a total Palm Desktop user.

First thing I got rid of the 1960's stale ugly turd color Outlook 2002 and loaded Outlook 2003.. and you know what?? Outlook all of sudden felt so much better to use.

It still sucked major (insert profanity here) in compards to how easy the Palm Desktop software was...

But after a month and a half of having too much pride to read the instructions and half heartedly playing around with the different settings I finally got it to do everything I every wanted it to do and much better than the Palm Desktop software.

What can I say.... It does get better ..Or not. Good luck in your efforts.

[Darius Wey]

03 outlook really did change a lot, but they still have some work to do. When will 05/06 come out?

Office 12 is currently in development. There's no set date on when it will be released, but I suspect it will be sometime next year (probably in Q3 or Q4).

[tanalasta]

Whatever is wrong with Outlook 2003? I love the MS Office 2003 professional suite and would recommend anyone who can afford the upgrade to do so.

It's just so pretty. And user friendly. And surprisingly hasn't bugged up or lost me a document yet.

I like it enough that I probably won't bother upgrading to tthe next version. 8)

[MleB]

Sadly, most PDAs (okay, all that I know of - including those for WinMobile 5) come with Outlook 2002. Its big, its counter-intuitive, its ugly, its a security nightmare and its avoided by most business individuals and companies I know - and I daresay it does nothing to reflect how most PDA users work with their information.

Still including it as a required part of the Pocket OS is simply Microsoft being cheap and lazy - and PDA manufacturers simply not understanding the needs of their users and demanding better from MS or creating their own PIM. Meanwhile, why should a user of a brand new PDA put up with software that is 3 years old or be forced to fork over another $US120 to get an 'improved' version (if only graphically) of awful software?

Oh but I pine for my old Palm Desktop and the VersaMail email conduit...

[Ummagumma]

Sadly, most PDAs (okay, all that I know of - including those for WinMobile 5) come with Outlook 2002. Its big, its counter-intuitive, its ugly, its a security nightmare and its avoided by most business individuals and companies I know - and I daresay it does nothing to reflect how most PDA users work with their information.

Still including it as a required part of the Pocket OS is simply Microsoft being cheap and lazy - and PDA manufacturers simply not understanding the needs of their users and demanding better from MS or creating their own PIM. Meanwhile, why should a user of a brand new PDA put up with software that is 3 years old or be forced to fork over another $US120 to get an 'improved' version (if only graphically) of awful software?

Oh but I pine for my old Palm Desktop and the VersaMail email conduit...

I find that most people complaining about Outlook either have no idea about it's awesome functionality, or have no use for it. Yes, even OL2002 is very functional & adaptable.

Palm Desktop was very easy to use simply because it had no features worth mentioning.

[salem]

Sadly, most PDAs (okay, all that I know of - including those for WinMobile 5) come with Outlook 2002. Its big, its counter-intuitive, its ugly, its a security nightmare and its avoided by most business individuals and companies I know - and I daresay it does nothing to reflect how most PDA users work with their information.

Still including it as a required part of the Pocket OS is simply Microsoft being cheap and lazy - and PDA manufacturers simply not understanding the needs of their users and demanding better from MS or creating their own PIM. Meanwhile, why should a user of a brand new PDA put up with software that is 3 years old or be forced to fork over another $US120 to get an 'improved' version (if only graphically) of awful software?

Oh but I pine for my old Palm Desktop and the VersaMail email conduit...

I find that most people complaining about Outlook either have no idea about it's awesome functionality, or have no use for it. Yes, even OL2002 is very functional & adaptable.

Palm Desktop was very easy to use simply because it had no features worth mentioning.

It's a typicial blind point of developers, but users not. Users are buying what they needs, but not awesome functions for display.

I completely agree with MleB that Outlook is counter-intuitive and ugly. And this problem actually is spread thoughout pocket pc design.

When I abandoned my Palm and changed to Pocket Pc a year ago, I've really doubted if Microsoft development team is testing users' patience. I've never spent so many time to learn how to use any small devices, not in Newton or Palm, but Pocket PC.

I needed to learn how to specify a location for a program installed, how to infrared a program to my friends (and failed), how to lock up the screen, how to remove items in Today, how to close running programs. I think no treo users really needed to learn this. Okay, now i've learnt that with my pocket pc, but it doesn't give more convenience to me. It just wasted my time.

I think the only reason to stay in Pocket PC is that Palm's smartphone models are too rare---actually, only one reasonable choice, but I'm seriously considering if i should go back to Palm. So for anyone who hasn't invested any in pocket pc, my advice: Think twice.

[Janak Parekh]

When I abandoned my Palm and changed to Pocket Pc a year ago
Question: how long did you own a Palm device before that? I've now owned Pocket PCs for about 6 years, and find them completely intuitive, much more so than Palms nowadays. On the Palm, I have to worry about the internal file system, limited categorization, etc.

(Outlook complexity is another -- and very interesting -- point of discussion that we hashed over a year ago in this very thread. ;))

--janak

[juni]

The whole office suite is a bit complicated for the regular user who would just like to get things done without having to learn strangely named commands and meanings of icons. If you are a so called "power user" you can do a lot with the suite but that requires reading manuals and help documentation.

I'd say 70% of all support requests we get at work are related to Outlook.

[salem]

When I abandoned my Palm and changed to Pocket Pc a year ago
Question: how long did you own a Palm device before that? I've now owned Pocket PCs for about 6 years, and find them completely intuitive, much more so than Palms nowadays. On the Palm, I have to worry about the internal file system, limited categorization, etc.
--janak

What do you mean by limited categorization and internal file system?

i used palm for two years, then i switched to pocket pc about a year ago (because i need a smartphone like dopod 828, and palm doesn't make this choice for me)

Adaptability isn't really a problem to me, as pocket pc interface is just based on windows platform. The problem is that pocket pc spends too huge resource to emulate windows experience, but obviously it's still worse and more counter-intuitive.

I didn't imagine i had to learn how to remove icon in "Program" in the start menu. Why we can't change the items in Today before users figure out that they have to do this in Setting --> Today --> Tab. Why we can't infrared a program to others. I'm also learning how to locate the data files for my SMS and address book (ush... and still figuring out how to do it). The most terrible thing is to compare its speed to do the same thing in Palm.

Frankly, I thought that all these disvantages were acceptable because pocket pc was richer in multi-media and office files management. I also like programs like Resco Radio, TCPMP. But recently i've realized that all these functions are also offered in Palm. And more, i want to record my call, but so far I can only get one program in Pocket PC (and the program may not work for all models), but it's easier to get a workable one in Treo.

[Janak Parekh]

What do you mean by limited categorization and internal file system?
Palm contacts, calendar, tasks do not support multiple categorization and is limited to only 15 categories. As for the internal file system: the internal file system does not resemble a desktop per se; until recently, it was not practical to create folders and manipulate files in the internal memory like a storage card. (In fact, modern file explorers play clever tricks to enable this on the Palm.) I find both highly unintuitive.

obviously it's still worse and more counter-intuitive.
Not worse in my opinion. ;)

I didn't imagine i had to learn how to remove icon in "Program" in the start menu.
I don't understand. How often are you manipulating individual shortcuts? Removing a program on the Pocket PC usually removes the corresponding icon.

Why we can't change the items in Today before users figure out that they have to do this in Setting --> Today --> Tab.
This is the first time I've heard someone finding this difficult. <shrug> What would you prefer, drag-and-drop? Wouldn't stray drags possibly cause problems?

Why we can't infrared a program to others.
Because Windows CE never supported it, I think. ;) That was a Palm addition. Your expectation that Pocket PC behaves exactly like Palm is not going to be the case, especially considering that CE evolved alongside Palm, but not always in the same way.

I'm also learning how to locate the data files for my SMS and address book (ush... and still figuring out how to do it).
Why?

The most terrible thing is to compare its speed to do the same thing in Palm.
Sure, some things in the Pocket PC are slower. However, my Pocket PC is acceptably fast. Your opinion may vary.

But recently i've realized that all these functions are also offered in Palm.
I gave you two example of functions that Palm does not offer or makes highly unintuitive. Additionally, Palms do not multitask, which makes it difficult for me. What you need to do is to compile a list of what you do and don't need, and use that to make the right decision for yourself.

And more, i want to record my call, but so far I can only get one program in Pocket PC (and the program may not work for all models), but it's easier to get a workable one in Treo.
Interesting, I didn't know this was readily accessible via a third-party PalmOS application. Usually, on most smartphones, the voice call circumvents the PDA portion, thereby saving battery life as the PDA portion can be turned off, so tricks need to be used to redirect the audio for recording purposes.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

The whole office suite is a bit complicated for the regular user who would just like to get things done without having to learn strangely named commands and meanings of icons. If you are a so called "power user" you can do a lot with the suite but that requires reading manuals and help documentation.
For sure, it's sophisticated, and certainly a bit too complicated for ordinary users. I don't think that necessarily makes it "crappy", though. Do I wish MS had an easier PIM tool for the average Joe, and supported ActiveSync with it? You bet. In fact, I now use iCal and Address Book on my Mac, which are dead-simple to use (a little too simple for me) and use Missing Sync to sync to my Pocket PC... so I've actually (unintentionally) ditched Outlook. :P

Maybe there's hope with Vista and the Windows Mobile Device Center, although I'm not holding my breath.

--janak

[salem]

Palm contacts, calendar, tasks do not support multiple categorization and is limited to only 15 categories.


I don't know it, because i never use so many categorization. If Outlook gives me that, i'll doubt if i'm paying for one more thing that i don't need. As mentioned before, what makes Outlook or Pocket PC crappy is that it gives too many unused functions and wastes users' time to learn what they need and what they don't need, just for achieving the same tasks.

How often are you manipulating individual shortcuts? Removing a program on the Pocket PC usually removes the corresponding icon.

When there's one dead icon, there's a need to remove it in a simple way. And there's more 'green programs' today, that means the installation will not do anything with registry and put any icons in the start menu.


Why we can't change the items in Today before users figure out that they have to do this in Setting --> Today --> Tab.
This is the first time I've heard someone finding this difficult. <shrug> What would you prefer, drag-and-drop? Wouldn't stray drags possibly cause problems?

But that's actually what i'm often asked by my friends. At my first glance, I'd expect that I could do it by holding my stylus on Today, then it would show up a small menu to do it. But not. And that's one of example about counter -initiutive in pocket pc, because you can't edit in the running program itself, but you have to leave the Today, go to Setting, go to Today, go to Tab. Weird.


I'm also learning how to locate the data files for my SMS and address book (ush... and still figuring out how to do it).
Why?

Would you download a program to backup Netscape Mail or Palm Desktop data files? No one does it, they just simply go to the data folder, and copy and paste. That's what i expect my Pocket PC can do. Another reason to locate my SMS file is here: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=50336
Please give a help.


The most terrible thing is to compare its speed to do the same thing in Palm.
Sure, some things in the Pocket PC are slower. However, my Pocket PC is acceptably fast. Your opinion may vary.

To say pocket pc acceptably fast is an opinion, and to say Palm is overwhelmingly faster than Pocket PC is the fact. :lol: I think if we're comparing both platform, we'd better not to talk about speed. The performance between both systems are too obvious to anyone.

Palms do not multitask, which makes it difficult for me. What you need to do is to compile a list of what you do and don't need, and use that to make the right decision for yourself.

Ah, you've mentioned another typical blind point of Microsoft developers: Multi-tasking. PDA is limited in system resources, and multi-tasking only makes a pda deadly resource hungry. Then I ask why do we need multitasking for all programs?

Palm tries another way. When you go from one program to another, then go back to the previous program, it will look the same as you left it. As it's very fast to open any programs in Treo (just two or three buttons), it's better than keeping many programs running, and switching it with small apps like HandyMenu.

Up to this moment, at least to me, the only use for multi-tasking is to listen to music. I enjoyed reading Isilo while playing music in Windows Media Player, but Treo can do it too. It can also look up a dictionary when i'm reading ebooks (with DA Laucher, very old program actually)


And more, i want to record my call, but so far I can only get one program in Pocket PC (and the program may not work for all models), but it's easier to get a workable one in Treo.
Interesting, I didn't know this was readily accessible via a third-party PalmOS application. Usually, on most smartphones, the voice call circumvents the PDA portion, thereby saving battery life as the PDA portion can be turned off, so tricks need to be used to redirect the audio for recording purposes.
[/quote]

Even worse, it was created not a long time after Treo was released. I'm actually trying to pick up some programs which can do an exclusiv functions to Pocket PC, but so far it's hard to do it. It's easier to do in reverse. :evil:

If i have to name one good function for Pocket PC, perhaps it's Registry Editor. It's so cool to make so many tweaks in pocket pc with it, instead of installing apparently endless 'hacks' for Palm Platform.

[Janak Parekh]

I don't know it, because i never use so many categorization. If Outlook gives me that, i'll doubt if i'm paying for one more thing that i don't need.
I find multiple categorization incredibly useful.

When there's one dead icon, there's a need to remove it in a simple way.
Okay. I do this so incredibly rarely that it hasn't struck me as a major problem.

(re Today screen)
But that's actually what i'm often asked by my friends.
I agree tap-and-hold would be nice, but there are other things I'd much rather see fixed on the Pocket PC first. There are third-party solutions, too; Palm, for instance, puts a Today preference item on the Today screen softmenu. Having read the forums for years, I haven't seen many people complain about this, but again, you have to prioritize what's important for you.

Would you download a program to backup Netscape Mail or Palm Desktop data files? No one does it, they just simply go to the data folder, and copy and paste.
Well, two points:

1. For syncable data, it's not too difficult to backup from the desktop;
2. The convention on Pocket PCs is to use a third-party backup program.

Ah, you've mentioned another typical blind point of Microsoft developers: Multi-tasking. PDA is limited in system resources, and multi-tasking only makes a pda deadly resource hungry. Then I ask why do we need multitasking for all programs?
I'm not going to get into this debate, it's been hashed a million times over. ;) Suffice it to say that the "state-saving" model in Palm OS is nowhere near sufficient for what I do (for example, reading email and surfing the web simultaneously). Symbian also multitasks, for better or for worse.

Anyway, it sounds like your heart is set on the Palm OS way of doing things. My only point is, just because you like that, it does not necessarily mean the Pocket PC is "crappy". I, for one, would never switch back to Garnet.

--janak

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Ah, you've mentioned another typical blind point of Microsoft developers: Multi-tasking. PDA is limited in system resources, and multi-tasking only makes a pda deadly resource hungry. Then I ask why do we need multitasking for all programs?


I've found this incredibly useful - in the mornings before leaving for work, I usually sync my device through Activesync and Mobsync, update my weather program, update my RSS feeds, update my stock portfolio, upload the latest Audible Wall Street Journal, and backup my device simultaneously - all via wifi. It saves a heck of a lot of time.

[salem]

I agree tap-and-hold would be nice, but there are other things I'd much rather see fixed on the Pocket PC first. There are third-party solutions, too; Palm, for instance, puts a Today preference item on the Today screen softmenu. Having read the forums for years, I haven't seen many people complain about this, but again, you have to prioritize what's important for you.

no one complains it because this is just one of many unfriendly designs, and there're many more to complain about ( like Outlook ), but the fact is that you have to waste a lot of time in total to figure out how to do all these small things.


Would you download a program to backup Netscape Mail or Palm Desktop data files? No one does it, they just simply go to the data folder, and copy and paste.
Well, two points:

1. For syncable data, it's not too difficult to backup from the desktop;
2. The convention on Pocket PCs is to use a third-party backup program.

Recently, i've wasted a lot of time to do SMS backup as mentioned previously. I've asked the same questions in many forums but no one knows how to do it yet, including you.

Third-party program doesn't work all the time. I've tried Jeyo Mobile Extender, but it can only be installed on outlook 2002 + SP3. I tried another small program called "SMSbackup" , and my pocket pc was dead. Yeah, fortunately, i appreciate that i can have a third party backup program called spb backup. It can restore all information that was lost in another backup.

As a normal PDA user, i just wonder why i can't simply copy and paste the data files. (and you can save money on buying third-party software to do this tiny job too)