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View Full Version : new to ppcs... a few questions


ckufta
11-27-2004, 08:16 AM
I am new to PPCs. I currently have a laptop, but its a bohemoth and thus not practical for mobility. Works great for games though, and a great space saver. I am considering getting a PPC for taking notes in class since I hear that their battery life is much stronger. I had a few questions though:
- what are the main differences between pocket pc/palm/tablets etc.
- what are the main differences between wi-fi/802.1/bluetooth and infrared. do these terms overlap?
- what is the difference between RAM and ROM. I have seen some descriptions that say that a particular model has 128 megs: 64 ram and 64 ROM. I don't understand?
- what is the battery life typically like? are we talking in the order of 2 hours, or something like 5 or 6?
- what are the main characteritics that one should be concerned with when shopping. I don't intend to play games with it, but it would be very nice to be able to connect to my wireless internet.
-oh ya, can this be practically used as an mp3 player? does that drain the battery like crazy. I'm think a la Ipod, with less storage.
I understand that this is an ambitious post and I really appreciate any help that anyone can give me.
Cheers

ADBrown
11-27-2004, 10:44 AM
- what are the main differences between wi-fi/802.1/bluetooth and infrared. do these terms overlap?

Only a little. WiFi and 802.11 are the same thing. WiFi is a medium-range wireless networking protocol, capable of local networking and high-speed internet access at 100-1500 feet. Bluetooth is a short-range wireless communication protocol for talking between devices like PPCs and cell phones, other PPCs, peripherals, etc.. You can use this to beam files, connect to a GPS, play games, lots of things. Infrared is an old and dying standard used mostly for transmitting contact information from one person's PDA to another. It's not used much anymore.

- what is the battery life typically like? are we talking in the order of 2 hours, or something like 5 or 6?

Anywhere from 2 to 14 hours, depending on model and how you use it. Average would probably be around 5-6 hours with reasonable use.

- what are the main characteritics that one should be concerned with when shopping. I don't intend to play games with it, but it would be very nice to be able to connect to my wireless internet.

That being the case, WiFi would be important.

-oh ya, can this be practically used as an mp3 player? does that drain the battery like crazy. I'm think a la Ipod, with less storage.

Very practical, many of us do it all the time. If you turn off the screen while the music is playing, the battery will last longer than normal usage, plus you can get gigabyte memory cards for cheap.

I desperately need sleep... if no one else has answered the remaining questions tomorrow, I'll finish them off.

Kowalski
11-27-2004, 06:58 PM
have a nice sleep ADBrown, i'll finish your work :D

what are the main differences between pocket pc/palm/tablets etc
tablet pc is a specialized version of notebook running specialized version of windows XP, and nothing to do with ppc or palm.
ppc s are running microsoft windows mobile operating system while palm devices are running palm OS. the difference between the two is huge both in terms of software and hardware. Since windows mobile OS is more complicated (multitasking, heavier graphical interface) the devices have more processing power than palm devices.(there are some palms with 400 mHz cpus but i bealive WM uses this power more efficently) to cut the story short, in most areas ppcs are far better than palms

what is the difference between RAM and ROM. I have seen some descriptions that say that a particular model has 128 megs: 64 ram and 64 ROM.

rom is permanent storage area where your OS files are stored, much like your hard drive. and the ram is again just like desktop PC, but the are two differences. First you can and most of the time do install your programs to ram( they work faster this way) and second when you hard reset your ppc, the contents of the ram will be flushed. so bigger values will be better for most of the cases but 64 megs will be enough for a moderate user

what are the main characteritics that one should be concerned with when shopping
dont stick with the specs, build quality and durability is much more important than speed.

ckufta
11-27-2004, 07:50 PM
Thanks so much for your time! I really appreciate it! I still have a few questions though:
- you said that when you reset, your ram is flushed, but what happens to your rom? if you put something on there, does that mean that it is going to be there forever?
- also, I'm curious about the different expansion slots. I noticed that most come with two, and the new dell, I think, comes with three. The thing is that they all have different names, all to technical for me to reproduce here, my question is what is the difference between the different expansion slots?
thanks again for your time. I don't know too many sites where the reply time is so good!
Cheers,

kosmos
11-27-2004, 08:33 PM
Re: Expansion slots, Compact Flash is the most popular, and that's were most of the market is. Type I is slim, Type II is fatter. Most memory carts are Type I CF, but some of the hard disk technology carts are the type II. If you going to avoid iPOD mania and use it for portable music but the biggest capacity you can afford 1GB or 2GB even 4GB now is affordable.

You can use a memory card in the other expansion slot (like the SD Slot in the HP 2210) to store some programs on when you install them so working memory in the base unit is kept open. You will definitely want to install OS add on's (like spd plus) to make the unit usable but its not a replacement for a PC or laptop, it's more like a compliment to it.

They are not for everyone, sometimes take a bit of fiddling but ultimately once you got all your apps and gizmos installed beware it becomes indespensable.

SteveHoward999
11-27-2004, 09:33 PM
- you said that when you reset, your ram is flushed, but what happens to your rom? if you put something on there, does that mean that it is going to be there forever?

You cannot place files on the ROM. Think of it like the brain ... you can neither program it, nor add/remove files, at least not under normal use.



- also, I'm curious about the different expansion slots. I noticed that most come with two, and the new dell, I think, comes with three. The thing is that they all have different names, all to technical for me to reproduce here, my question is what is the difference between the different expansion slots?


CF = Compact Flash
SD = Secure Digital


Both are versions of what seems to have become generically called 'flash ram'. When used simply as memory cards, think of them as removable hard drives.


CF comes in to general flavours ... Microdrive, and solid state. The Microdrive is a miniature hards drive, and you can find them in sizes up to 4 Gb. The solid state cards are memory chips, the same as the USB flash memory 'key' memory widgits we have been using the last few years. Right now I think they too are available up to 4 Gb .... the microdrives are cheaper, but use more battery and are slower.


SD currently is available only as a solid-state memory chip, but Toshiba and others are developing hard drives that fit into this format. Current max size is, I think, 1 Gb.


CF and SD slots can also take various expansion cards like BlueTooth, Wi-Fi, GPS, phone cards, cameras .... CF devices appear to be more common and cheaper.

Recent threads have suggested that some people believe the CF slot is heading towards extinction, but I see a lot of life in having both slots for a while, as this offers the greatest flexibility for memory and device expansion... for instance my wife has a Wi-Fi CF card that is also a 128 Mb memory card ... very nice :-)

frankenbike
11-27-2004, 10:00 PM
Thanks so much for your time! I really appreciate it! I still have a few questions though:
- you said that when you reset, your ram is flushed, but what happens to your rom? if you put something on there, does that mean that it is going to be there forever?
- also, I'm curious about the different expansion slots. I noticed that most come with two, and the new dell, I think, comes with three. The thing is that they all have different names, all to technical for me to reproduce here, my question is what is the difference between the different expansion slots?
thanks again for your time. I don't know too many sites where the reply time is so good!
Cheers,

The ROM is actually a type of "flash" memory. Non-volitile, survives resets. Contrary to the opinions of some, I think this is where you are best off installing most programs.

While there's a mild speed "hit" for installing programs, and keeping program related data, in the flash ROM, it can pay off big in keeping RAM free for program operations, and therefore run faster once the program has been launched.

The ROM is actually a misnomer. It's more like the equivalent of a hard drive with no moving parts. Its content survives complete loss of power and hard resets, but you can add or delete from it just like a hard drive.

Pocket PCs are "always on devices". When you turn the power switch off, it's actually more equivalent to a "standby" mode, then an actual "off" mode. It runs power to preserve the contents of RAM, which is typically the default location for all installed programs unless you deliberately install them in ROM (sometimes referred to as "built-in storage").

As some have said, installing programs in RAM makes them start faster. The problem comes in when you run a program that uses more RAM the way it's used on a PC. For example, large maps in map software, sometimes MP3s, web browsing, streaming audio or video files.

As for expansion slots, there are two types. SD and Compact Flash (CF). Compact Flash is larger, and most devices that appear to have it have both SD and Compact Flash. These devices also tend to be thicker and slightly larger than those that have SD alone.

The way many people use PPCs, they use the CF slot for expansion, such as running GPS, WiFi and Bluetooth for models without those capabilities built in, or USB Host or other expansion capabilities. They use their SD slots for storage.

Also, in a broad generality, if you use the CF slot for memory, you get a lot more of it per dollar than SD. Currently, you can get 2 gigabytes of CF storage for a little over $100. While there are 2 gig SD cards coming out, they'll be much more expensive, and there's some controversy over whether the PPCs will work with them. 4GB CF cards are appearing on the market, and nothing like that is on the near horizon for SD, assuming it's not true that SD addressability on some models is limited to 1GB.

Do you need that much storage? That's a personal question. I use 1GB with about 800 megabytes of it taken up with MP3s digitized at 96kb rates. That's a bit over 30 hours worth, and is adequate for me. Some people want to tote around their whole music collection with them as it is done on iPods. Others want to carry around their favorite movies.

At this time, it's cheaper in most cases to buy memory, both in CF and SD form, in the form of 1GB cards. If it isn't necessary to have everything on one drive at the same time, either format is sufficient. Because of the size difference, you can fit 3 to 4 SD cards in the physical space it takes to store a single CF card (outside of the Pocket PC, of course).

I have an SD only Dell Axim. This is adequate for my purposes. It came with built in WiFi and Bluetooth, so I don't need expansion for that purpose. Bluetooth is also a form of expansion, though it's wireless. You can use Bluetooth for keyboards, GPS, communicating with a Bluetooth phone to access the Internet through your cell phone, and other expansion purposes, though all of these are more expensive than a GPS that fits in the CF slot or an infrared keyboard, and in many cases with the phones, an adaptor cable that physically wires your phone to the Pocket PC.

All PPCs come with built in infrared.

If the Dell Axim X-50 was available when I bought my SD only X-30, I probably would have bought the X-50. But it isn't a significant enough advancement for me to sell my X-30 to buy one, and I think the X-30 is smaller, which is more important to me for my purposes. As far as I'm concerned, the X-50v is the best overall value you can get in Pocket PCs today. Especially if you comb a site like Aximsite.com for coupons which can get you a discount on one.

ckufta
11-27-2004, 11:10 PM
thanks again, that really answers my questions! Have a great weekend, guys!

ADBrown
11-28-2004, 06:35 AM
You cannot place files on the ROM. Think of it like the brain ... you can neither program it, nor add/remove files, at least not under normal use.

Actually this isn't accurate. Most modern PocketPCs have more ROM than is used by the operating system, and the leftover is available to the user as storage area. On iPaqs it's called iPaq File Store, on Axims it's Built-in Storage.

SteveHoward999
11-28-2004, 05:01 PM
You cannot place files on the ROM. Think of it like the brain ... you can neither program it, nor add/remove files, at least not under normal use.

Actually this isn't accurate. Most modern PocketPCs have more ROM than is used by the operating system, and the leftover is available to the user as storage area. On iPaqs it's called iPaq File Store, on Axims it's Built-in Storage.


So ROM (Read Only Memory) is a made-up name? And the Flash ROM that you (thoretically) upgrade is not really ROM? So where is the core OS etc held then ... the bit that survives battery failure, hard reset etc ... ? Did I miss something?

Darius Wey
11-29-2004, 09:25 AM
So ROM (Read Only Memory) is a made-up name? And the Flash ROM that you (thoretically) upgrade is not really ROM? So where is the core OS etc held then ... the bit that survives battery failure, hard reset etc ... ? Did I miss something?

There have been a lot of common misconceptions when it comes to this sort of naming. Generally, the ROM is in the device holding the OS, etc. It is non-volatile. The other memories that were referred to earlier (e.g. iPAQ File Store) are also commonly called ROM. It too is non-volatile.

SteveHoward999
11-29-2004, 01:38 PM
OK so you are telling me that the extra non-volatile RAM has somehow become misnamed by some people? Guess I missed that oops along the way.

Darius Wey
11-30-2004, 01:55 PM
OK so you are telling me that the extra non-volatile RAM has somehow become misnamed by some people? Guess I missed that oops along the way.

No - not really. There's no real "set" definition for the Pocket PC ROM and RAM. People still call the non-volatile memory as ROM, and the volatile memory as RAM. I wouldn't be quick to say that it was "misnamed", as I've still yet to see what people consider to be the "proper name". However, for the sake of simplicity, people consider the non-volatile memory (e.g. iPAQ File Store, and all the stuff that holds the OS on each hard reset) as ROM, and the rest as the RAM. Even though the actual "PC" definitions would argue otherwise...

SteveHoward999
11-30-2004, 04:26 PM
OK so you are telling me that the extra non-volatile RAM has somehow become misnamed by some people? Guess I missed that oops along the way.

No - not really. There's no real "set" definition for the Pocket PC ROM and RAM. People still call the non-volatile memory as ROM, and the volatile memory as RAM. I wouldn't be quick to say that it was "misnamed", as I've still yet to see what people consider to be the "proper name"....


There are clear set definitions fo the memory types, and ROM and RAM have been defined clearly for years:-

ROM = Read Only Memory ... the user and sytem cannot write to it.
RAM = Random Access Memory - the user and system can write to it.


Anything that can be accessed and written-to cannot, therefore, be called ROM. So anyone or anything that has called the extra on-board file-storage space ROM is in error.


There are, by the way, some more advanced memory names and definitions which people with better memories than mine will no doubt be able to list and explain. In truth the ROM in a PPC is not actually ROM, because it can be re-programmed. When I was a lad this would be called EEPROM ... something or other Programmable Read Only Memory. These days it seems we are using Flash ROM in PPCs, but there are several variations on the theme.

Darius Wey
12-01-2004, 09:55 AM
There are clear set definitions fo the memory types, and ROM and RAM have been defined clearly for years:-

ROM = Read Only Memory ... the user and sytem cannot write to it.
RAM = Random Access Memory - the user and system can write to it.


Yes - I know that. But note in my earlier post that I said "Pocket PC ROM and RAM". The typical notion of RAM and ROM have changed a little in reference to these mobile devices. Why? Due to the variations as you have discussed in your recent post. It gets a bit messy when you want to discuss the different types of ROMs and RAMs, but if you want me to comment on all of them, feel free to ask... ;) But I did say it would be messy. :lol:

SteveHoward999
12-01-2004, 01:50 PM
Yes - I know that. But note in my earlier post that I said "Pocket PC ROM and RAM". The typical notion of RAM and ROM have changed a little in reference to these mobile devices.


So I say again - you mean some people have been **wrongly** calling PDA usable RAM as ROM? If so they should be soundly spanked. RAM is not ROM and you and I both know it.

Darius Wey
12-01-2004, 01:54 PM
So I say again - you mean some people have been **wrongly** calling PDA usable RAM as ROM? If so they should be soundly spanked. RAM is not ROM and you and I both know it.

Haha - I know. Pity there's no "spank" emoticon. No wait - this will do: :twak: ;)

SteveHoward999
12-01-2004, 03:14 PM
:rotfl:

ADBrown
12-01-2004, 08:45 PM
So I say again - you mean some people have been **wrongly** calling PDA usable RAM as ROM? If so they should be soundly spanked. RAM is not ROM and you and I both know it.

Well by that strict definition, you're wrongly referring to flash memory as RAM. The internal non-volatile storage on a PocketPC is NAND flash memory rather than any flavor of ROM or RAM. But do we really need such an obsessive level of technical accuracy?

SteveHoward999
12-01-2004, 11:43 PM
Well by that strict definition, you're wrongly referring to flash memory as RAM. The internal non-volatile storage on a PocketPC is NAND flash memory rather than any flavor of ROM or RAM. But do we really need such an obsessive level of technical accuracy?

When people start saying RAM is ROM then they need corrected. You and I both know that NAND Flash memory can be reprogrammed - but fore the purposes of daily use it is ROM. Equaly we both know that the file storage space that shows up as an extra 'drive' on a PPC is RAM, not ROM.

Sheesh - you are making me sound like a rampand pedant when all Iwas trying to do was understand why the RAM was wrongly being called ROM in the first place :oops:

Darius Wey
12-02-2004, 04:04 AM
Sheesh - you are making me sound like a rampand pedant when all Iwas trying to do was understand why the RAM was wrongly being called ROM in the first place :oops:

Haha - that's cool. I mean if we wanted to, we could really plunge right into the deepest levels of this topic, but to keep it simple (for the benefit of the non-geek society), it's either RAM or ROM. :mrgreen: