Not that happy with my 720...

[teq]

Well, so I got myself a Pocket Loox 720 (mainly because of the positive reviews, e.g. on this page). After 2 weeks I must admit that I'm not that happy with the device.

Why? Well, here are my pesonal issues with the device:
- VGA support not great in PPC software: There is very little software that actually takes advantage of the VGA resolution. (One notable exception is RepliGo which really is much better in highres. PalmReader, on the other hand is terrible - it's better in QVGA.) Landscape mode is really laughable - 30% of the screen are blocked by title/menu bars. I realize, though, that these points are not Loox-specific, but apply to all VGA devices.
- Form factor: I love my 2210's form factor - it fits perfectly into the hand and "feels just right". Although the 720 is not much larger (and really small for a VGA device), it still doesn't feel as comfortable as my old device. The scroll wheel is very nice, but isn't as convenient as I had expected (it tends to get stuck if you try to scroll and click in quick succession).
- Speed: At least in automatic mode (CPU speed), the device feels slow in every day use. It's ok in turbo mode, but I haven't yet found out how hard this is on battery life.
- Charging via sync cable: It doesn't seem to be possible to charge the 720 using a charge/sync USBS cable. FS doesn't provide a carge/sync cable - and third party sync/charge cable don't seem to work (at least not the one I bought): Although the 720's charge indicator starts to flash, it stops after a while and the battery meter doesn't change. I suspect that USB is to weak to charge the 720's battery? Anybody used a sync/charge cable that works?
- Issues with Bluetooth: When turning on the device, I sometimes have the problem that Bluetooth isn't available (can't open the Bluetooth Manager). A softreset helps, but this is a nuisance, especially because the 720 needs a rather long time to "boot" after a soft reset.
- Software/Hardware integration: The 2210 features a better sw/hw integration. E.g. if you plug in the power supply, the 2210's display automatically switches to maximum display brightness - the 720 doesn't react at all. Also, BatteryBar isn't able to control the 720's display brightness using it's slider in the Today settings (this of course may be OmegaOne's fault, but it's interesting - and for me it's a nuisance).
- Software in general seems less stable - probably a WM2003 SE issue.

On the positive side, WLAN is great, my 4GB microdrive boots much faster when turning on the device and 128 MB RAM is something I may get used to.

I simply haven't made up my mind whether I will keep the 720 or sell it and stick to my 2210 while waiting for WM2005...

Cheers,
teq

[juni]

I've been following threads about the new devices with interest. The 720 seems to have a lot of issues so I have pretty much removed it from my new-pda-list.

Sadly the new Axim also seems to have issues :(.

I would really hate to have to get a HP after the trick they pulled with not offering upgrades but it is starting to look like I have to get the x4700 mainly because it has the best screen of them all, and as you can guess, that is very important to me. Plus it seems to have less "issues", apart from the touchpad which many say is totally useless and others swear by it.

[teq]

yep, I also considered the x50v, but the small battery and it's late release date (in Germany) drove me to the 720.

The HP x4700 is no option for me, simply because of it's size. IMHO, VGA and PPC aren't a perfect match yet. VGA requires too many compromises regarding size/ergonomics, battery life and software stability.

Well, good things need time...

Cheers,
teq

[Fishie]

Battery time on my e800 was equel to the pest QVGA PPCs out there bar a few.

[Ripper014]

I've been following threads about the new devices with interest. The 720 seems to have a lot of issues so I have pretty much removed it from my new-pda-list.

Sadly the new Axim also seems to have issues :(.

I would really hate to have to get a HP after the trick they pulled with not offering upgrades but it is starting to look like I have to get the x4700 mainly because it has the best screen of them all, and as you can guess, that is very important to me. Plus it seems to have less "issues", apart from the touchpad which many say is totally useless and others swear by it.

Actually I think they meant to say... people swear at it...

I still think that the Asus a730W... Loox 720 and Toshiba e830 are good choices...

[CESkins]

teq have you been to the FirstLoox website (http://firstloox.org/)? Most of the issues you raise in your posts have either been addressed via software or are OS design issues that will require an update.

VGA support not great in PPC software - you can't expect all the software available to be VGA complaint at this time. The various developers 1st have to purchase the hardware (Loox 720, Axim x50v, Asus 730w, etc) and test their software out on each device. That means they had to wait until a shipping model was available unless they were lucky enough to receive a pre-production model. Unless you happen to be a big software company, chances of that are slim to none. Besides, last minute changes in the OS or other components can render software that worked flawlessly with pre-production hardware buggy. Like all of us with VGA devices, we just have to wait for the developers.

Form factor - the 720 and 2210 are very different machines. About all they have in common are 2 slots. The 720 have a slightly larger screen, a built-in camera, more RAM/ROM, a larger battery, USB host, side buttons (including jog dial), etc. The Loox may be bigger but I would take it's longer size any day of the week given all that they were able to fit into the package. Given that the Loox is far smaller than HPs successor to the 2210 (namely the 4700 series), I consider it to be a smart move to upgrade my 2210 to a 720 vs the 4700. More bang for the buck (unless you are stuck on a 4" VGA screen and painted magnesium alloy body). I love my 2210 and 4150 but the Loox is not meant to compete with them.

Speed - I found the same issues you have with a Dell x50v (which has a faster processor than the Loox especially in Autospeed mode. At turbo mode the sluggishness was less noticeable. However, don't forget that the speed of the PDA has to do with several factors: the CPU speed, optimized OS code, and the software installed and running. Running software from FLASH-ROM will be way slower than main RAM or off a CF/SD card. Also the new VGA PDAs are pushing around 4x more pixels on the screen. Worse if they have to work with older software that requires the CPU to spend time doubling pixels for compatibility. Many older apps that were slow in VGA mode natively worked just fine once forced to run in VGA-mode (by Tweaks2K2 assuming that the dialogs and other parts of the program weren't hard coded to specific dimensions). What I find slows the system down severely is pixel doubled clear-type text. Scrolling takes forever. I expect to see these devices come int otheir own over the next few weeks as the software matures and bugs in the OS are resolved by updates.

Charging via sync cable - I seem to recall that the 2210 charge/sync cable did not work with the 4150 even though they had the same sync ports. The 4150 simply required more juice to charge than the 2210 sync cable was able to carry. Once the cable was redesigned, it worked flawlessly with the 4150 and any other HP PDA for that matter that had the same port. We should wait for the cable manufacturers to design a cable for the 720 (which means they need to have a 720 in hand to test the cable with). In the interim, I will use the cables the device came with. Personally I am looking forward to a sync cable with USB host features added as well.

Issues with Bluetooth - I have the same problems with the Dell x50v, HP users are reporting similar issues...this is a MS issue.

Software/Hardware integration - the backlight issues you bring up have been discussed on the FirstLoox website. Here is a link to software (http://firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2054&highlight=backlight+power) that will allow you to set up differnt backlight settings for the Loox on AC or battery power. As for not being able to control the backlight brightness via the sliders in BatteryBar...that's a software issue that has to be addressed by the makers of BatteryBar (same thing happens every year when new hardware is released...software that ties into specific parts of the OS or hardware need to be revised). Again patience or just stick with what you have now until these issues are resolved with time. There is nothing that I can see that is a major fault in the hardware...just some teething issues with the latest generation of hardware and software. :D

Software stability - await optimized code for the new PDAs.

[jasondearyou]

teq have you been to the FirstLoox website? Most of the issues you raise in your posts have either been addressed via software or are OS design issues that will require an update.





i'm soo happy you addressed these issues, i was feeling alone and cold out there sticking my neck out for the loox.

[teq]

@CESkins:
First of all, thanks for your tips. Yes, I do know the FirstLoox website, but I hadn't checked all the links, especially the Backlight software and the highres Bluetooth icon (in today screen) are very helpful. Very nice!

In general, my remarks were only my 5 cents. Simply put, I'm disappointed with the additional value a brandnew VGA device offers compared to my "old" QVGA 2210. No killer apps that make really great use of VGA - noticeable exception RepliGo and (maybe) PocketInformant.

So, for me, a comparison between the 2210 and the 720 concerning every day use, handability and overall impression DOES make sense. And currently I'm not impressed...

Cheers,
teq

[CESkins]

In general, my remarks were only my 5 cents. Simply put, I'm disappointed with the additional value a brandnew VGA device offers compared to my "old" QVGA 2210. No killer apps that make really great use of VGA - noticeable exception RepliGo and (maybe) PocketInformant.
teq I agree with you. With the exception of a few notable apps such as AF, PI, and Repligo very few apps make maximal use of the new VGA screens. Part of that has to do with how MS implemented VGA support in the 2003SE OS (it's not true VGA support). Until apps are redesigned to support the current OS, I am afraid we are stuck with pixel doubled software. I just picked up a Loox 720 and to tell you the truth, I am very impressed with the hardware...the software and OS just need to catch up. :)

[Bugblatter]

For me the main reason for getting a VGA PDA was the playback of DivX etc, the quality completely blows away QVGA screens. For me that's the "killer app". When my 5GB Seagate Microdrive turns up I'll have a pocket movie player, on top of everything else it can do.

I really like my Loox 720. The lack of SVGA support in aps is very annoying, plus the fact that many don't work properly in landscape mode, but that should improve fairly quickly.

[Menneisyys]

A softreset helps, but this is a nuisance, especially because the 720 needs a rather long time to "boot" after a soft reset.

It's almost the same (around 20 secs) as the boot time of the 2210 and is definitely much better than some other VGA machines (e.g., the e800).

The 2210 features a better sw/hw integration. E.g. if you plug in the power supply, the 2210's display automatically switches to maximum display brightness - the 720 doesn't react at all.

That's right (with the little correction that the battery- and the charger-based brightness levels are completely unrelated and you don't have to keep the charger brightness at max), and the 2210 also has much finer-grained brightness settings. If only its screen were half as good as that of the 720...

Although the 720's charge indicator starts to flash, it stops after a while and the battery meter doesn't change. I suspect that USB is to weak to charge the 720's battery?

Seems to be so. Most recent PDA's consume well above 1A when put on an external charger. The 720 is no difference - it's as fast at charging the battery as, say, the 2210. And a USB host can only supply 500 mA at max - no wonder it's just not enough at both powering the unit AND charging the battery. It's a common problem with almost all PDA models.

Speed: At least in automatic mode (CPU speed), the device feels slow in every day use.

ALL VGA machines seem to be slow at navigating OS screens / menus when compared to a decent 400 MHz PXA255+. WM2003 QVGA machine. It's because of the amount of information that must be passed to the screen.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I would really hate to have to get a HP after the trick they pulled with not offering upgrades but it is starting to look like I have to get the x4700 mainly because it has the best screen of them all, and as you can guess, that is very important to me. Plus it seems to have less "issues", apart from the touchpad which many say is totally useless and others swear by it.
Actually I think they meant to say... people swear at it...
Count me as one who loves the touchpad. It's flakey if you try to quick-tap on it the way you would a regular D-Pad. Once you get into the habit of "brief touches" as opposed to "quick taps" to navigate, it's actually becomes quite reliable.

As for the issues with VGA devices, I do agree to an extent that MS didn't do enough to take advantage of VGA resolutions. PIE is still not that useful (although it becomes an absolute killer-app when used with SE_VGA in landscape mode) and it would have been nice to have the option to scale down the size of the everything (something in between standard and what's presented by SE_VGA).

As others point out, I'm not worried about vendor software. That will eventually catch up. I went through the same pains when I first bought my 2215 and there were still a lot of packages that didn't play well with WM2003.

[riuster]

Well, so I got myself a Pocket Loox 720 (mainly because of the positive reviews, e.g. on this page). After 2 weeks I must admit that I'm not that happy with the device.

Why? Well, here are my pesonal issues with the device:
- VGA support not great in PPC software: There is very little software that actually takes advantage of the VGA resolution. (One notable exception is RepliGo which really is much better in highres. PalmReader, on the other hand is terrible - it's better in QVGA.) Landscape mode is really laughable - 30% of the screen are blocked by title/menu bars. I realize, though, that these points are not Loox-specific, but apply to all VGA devices.
- Form factor: I love my 2210's form factor - it fits perfectly into the hand and "feels just right". Although the 720 is not much larger (and really small for a VGA device), it still doesn't feel as comfortable as my old device. The scroll wheel is very nice, but isn't as convenient as I had expected (it tends to get stuck if you try to scroll and click in quick succession).
- Speed: At least in automatic mode (CPU speed), the device feels slow in every day use. It's ok in turbo mode, but I haven't yet found out how hard this is on battery life.
- Charging via sync cable: It doesn't seem to be possible to charge the 720 using a charge/sync USBS cable. FS doesn't provide a carge/sync cable - and third party sync/charge cable don't seem to work (at least not the one I bought): Although the 720's charge indicator starts to flash, it stops after a while and the battery meter doesn't change. I suspect that USB is to weak to charge the 720's battery? Anybody used a sync/charge cable that works?
- Issues with Bluetooth: When turning on the device, I sometimes have the problem that Bluetooth isn't available (can't open the Bluetooth Manager). A softreset helps, but this is a nuisance, especially because the 720 needs a rather long time to "boot" after a soft reset.
- Software/Hardware integration: The 2210 features a better sw/hw integration. E.g. if you plug in the power supply, the 2210's display automatically switches to maximum display brightness - the 720 doesn't react at all. Also, BatteryBar isn't able to control the 720's display brightness using it's slider in the Today settings (this of course may be OmegaOne's fault, but it's interesting - and for me it's a nuisance).
- Software in general seems less stable - probably a WM2003 SE issue.

On the positive side, WLAN is great, my 4GB microdrive boots much faster when turning on the device and 128 MB RAM is something I may get used to.

I simply haven't made up my mind whether I will keep the 720 or sell it and stick to my 2210 while waiting for WM2005...

Cheers,
teq

VGA support not great in PPC software: There is very little software that actually takes advantage of the VGA resolution. (One notable exception is RepliGo which really is much better in highres. PalmReader, on the other hand is terrible - it's better in QVGA.) Landscape mode is really laughable - 30% of the screen are blocked by title/menu bars. I realize, though, that these points are not Loox-specific, but apply to all VGA devices.

you kidding?

- Form factor: I love my 2210's form factor - it fits perfectly into the hand and "feels just right". Although the 720 is not much larger (and really small for a VGA device), it still doesn't feel as comfortable as my old device. The scroll wheel is very nice, but isn't as convenient as I had expected (it tends to get stuck if you try to scroll and click in quick succession).

again, you are kidding, then how about you sell me yours for 400 USD

- Speed: At least in automatic mode (CPU speed), the device feels slow in every day use. It's ok in turbo mode, but I haven't yet found out how hard this is on battery life.

Plesase let us know, repost

- Charging via sync cable: It doesn't seem to be possible to charge the 720 using a charge/sync USBS cable. FS doesn't provide a carge/sync cable - and third party sync/charge cable don't seem to work (at least not the one I bought): Although the 720's charge indicator starts to flash, it stops after a while and the battery meter doesn't change. I suspect that USB is to weak to charge the 720's battery? Anybody used a sync/charge cable that works?

You are saying there is NO sync cradle?


- Issues with Bluetooth: When turning on the device, I sometimes have the problem that Bluetooth isn't available (can't open the Bluetooth Manager). A softreset helps, but this is a nuisance, especially because the 720 needs a rather long time to "boot" after a soft reset.

what is your benchmark and comparing to what device

[teq]

Hi Menneisyys,
interesting comments, thanks.
It's almost the same (around 20 secs) as the boot time of the 2210 and is definitely much better than some other VGA machines (e.g., the e800).
Hm, at least I'm glad I haven't got an e800... 20 secs seem like a long time, especially if you don't have a "progress bar" (no idea what's the correct term in English) like on the 2210 (though the dolphins are nice :wink:).
That's right (with the little correction that the battery- and the charger-based brightness levels are completely unrelated and you don't have to keep the charger brightness at max), and the 2210 also has much finer-grained brightness settings. If only its screen were half as good as that of the 720...
Thanks to FirstLOOX I've now installed a hack that automatically changes the brightness once the device is charging. Very cool, that take care of that issue. Now, if ownly BatteyBar's brightness slider would support the 720. (BTW: SPB Pocket Plus 2 also features a brightness slider - and it works on the 720. Hm, I really wonder why they can do it and OmegaOne doesn't seem to manage.)

Seems to be so. Most recent PDA's consume well above 1A when put on an external charger. The 720 is no difference - it's as fast at charging the battery as, say, the 2210. And a USB host can only supply 500 mA at max - no wonder it's just not enough at both powering the unit AND charging the battery. It's a common problem with almost all PDA models.
Well - for me this really is a nuisance. I travel a lot for a living, and am already carrying a notebook charger and a mobile phone charger - I really could do without a PDA charger! At FirstLOOX some guy claims to have found a cable that charges the 720 via USB - seeing is believing...
ALL VGA machines seem to be slow at navigating OS screens / menus when compared to a decent 400 MHz PXA255+. WM2003 QVGA machine. It's because of the amount of information that must be passed to the screen.
Yeah, of course I know - four times the amount of data. But that's exactly my point: The 2210 simply feels snappier in every day use...

Oh, well. Haven't made up my mind yet whether I will keep the 720.

Cheers,
teq

BTW: I've got a Stowaway Bluetooth Keyboard last weekend, and it connected like a charm with the 720. Haven't yet spend much time using it, but TextMaker seemed to work fine.

[NLS]

keep the thing

you WILL regret switching to something else... (erm... that's not a threat hehehe, it's something you will soon find out)

[NLS]

Count me as one who loves the touchpad. It's flakey if you try to quick-tap on it the way you would a regular D-Pad. Once you get into the habit of "brief touches" as opposed to "quick taps" to navigate, it's actually becomes quite reliable.

where is the puke emoticon?
sorry man, count me as one who hates it

I tried to like it, but no
it just sucks (of course gaming is OUT of the question)
fast movement and direction changes are out of the question
feedback is (duh!) zero
mistakes VERY common

sorry, I am not going to fund HP "Live Experiments" Dept. again

[Menneisyys]

At FirstLOOX some guy claims to have found a cable that charges the 720 via USB - seeing is believing...

It does, but only if the battery's charge is not lower than 75-80%. Under that charge, the charging current is so high that the desktop PC can't supply it any more. So, you can only use the charging UB cable if you don't really waer down the battery before trying to charge.

[Menneisyys]

BTW: I've got a Stowaway Bluetooth Keyboard last weekend, and it connected like a charm with the 720. Haven't yet spend much time using it, but TextMaker seemed to work fine.

Yeah, I like it too. I've even sent a lot of posts here on PPCT using it from home :)

[CESkins]

It does, but only if the battery's charge is not lower than 75-80%. Under that charge, the charging current is so high that the desktop PC can't supply it any more. So, you can only use the charging UB cable if you don't really waer down the battery before trying to charge.
There is a thread at FirstLoox where the Asus 730 AC power supply + cable were able to charge the Loox 720. I just bought the Boxwave sync-n-charge cable for the 730 as both the Asus and Loox use identical sync/charge ports. Will see if the miniSync Asus cable works to sync and charge the Loox.

[Ripper014]

I got myself a Toshiba e830... and I was not that impressed either... until I loaded in oz_vga... Until then I was not sure I was going to keep the device... now I can say... I love it... and it will be around a long time... Now if they would fix their BT Stack... I would be a happy camper...

[CESkins]

I got myself a Toshiba e830... and I was not that impressed either... until I loaded in oz_vga... Until then I was not sure I was going to keep the device... now I can say... I love it... and it will be around a long time... Now if they would fix their BT Stack... I would be a happy camper...
Ripper did you realize this was a Loox 720 forum? :D Just kidding. Welcome to the VGA club. You may want to check out the FirstLoox site and see if some of their BT/WiFi utilities would work on the Toshi. BTW, Rip, how does the Toshi compare to any other VGA device you have seen/used?

[Ripper014]

What can I say... wanna be a Loox user... settled for a Toshiba...

[teq]

BTW: I've got a Stowaway Bluetooth Keyboard last weekend, and it connected like a charm with the 720. Haven't yet spend much time using it, but TextMaker seemed to work fine.

Yeah, I like it too. I've even sent a lot of posts here on PPCT using it from home :)

...and the design of the Stowaway just perfectly matches the 720's design - now these two really seem to have been made for each other.

teq

[CESkins]

...and the design of the Stowaway just perfectly matches the 720's design - now these two really seem to have been made for each other.

teq
I felt the same way about the Stowaway BT KB and the Loox...the gray color of the keys perfectly matches the Loox grey color...one would think they were made by the same company. :D

[leeraud1]

Worry about the SUPPORT!!!!!!!
Here is my experience with a screen which broke 7 days after I bought it.
Still working on it and have contacted all the sites and finally have a resonse from http://www.fujitsu-siemens.de/contact.html Just sent the email.back to him


Dear Mr. Harle,
Here is a list of my contacts. No one ever sent me an email at all
and did not call back so I had to keep calling them in America.

Table of events

July 16th 2005
Received Fujitsu-Seimens Loox 720 in Post from England

July 19th 2005
Accidentally broke screen after putting the unit in my pocket with sunglasses

July 20th 2005
Called the service number at Fujitsu-Seimens USA at number
1-800-838-5487 They got all the information and told me that someone would be
calling me back. No one did and I had no messages in my EMail.

July 21st 2005

Called service number again and all information was collected again and they
then told me that I was to be given a Service number which was not given before
#40555447042. I asked for the service department number and they gave
it to me.
I called the servicenumber 1-888-241-4060 and was told that they were
waiting on
Customer Service to respond and let them know what the cost would be.
I was told that I would be called
in an hour by a "Tony". I was not.

July 22nd 2005
Called Service department and asked for Tony. I was told that the
replacement cost for the screen of the unit would be
about $600 US Dollars plus shipping and handling totalling about
$650.00 . I told them that I had just Paid that for the device.
They said that that was all they could do as this was Fujitsu-Seimens policy.

July 25th
Called Fujitsu-Seimens site in the UK at 011441344475125 I was told
that the policy there
is the same as in the US. They said that the cost would be about 300
Pounds plus shipping and handling
That came out to about $670.00 Americican. I then asked for the
service number and called 011441870-5359752
and the service department told me the same price. I asked to buy the
screen myself and They told me they
were not allowed to sell the screen. At that point I then mailed an
email to you. You are the first to have responded
with a return email.

Think of it this way'

I go buy a car for 45,000 USD. I drive it for a week and somehow do
somethig to cause the engine to burn up.
I take it back to the dealer and admit that it is my fault. The
dealer then tells me that it will cost 45,00 USD
to replace just the engine!!!! That is in effect what Fujitsu-Seimens
is doing!!

The end is that Germany referred me back to the English site again
The First Look forum is starting to fill with broken screen reports. They are very fragile. :(

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

A broken screen is pretty extreme, but WOW... that's a ton. Actually, why do they even bother with a screen replacement at that price? They might as well just offer to sell you a new one!

[Ripper014]

Maybe that is the point... they do not want to do repairs. It is much easier for them to just have you buy another unit. Consider the time it takes to catalogue the request for repair... the cost of shipping... (assuming they cover it coming and going)... the time spent by technicians to evaluate/confirm the problem... the ordering and cost of parts... and finally the handling and reshipping of the product.

The whole process can be a bit of a bear, so I can see why they would drag their feet.

Bottom-line is the manufacturer has no obligations to repair damage caused by the user... nor are they responsible for OS upgrades... (just putting in there because I am tired of seeing all the complaints). Pocket PC's are as-is devices... as long as they work as initially advertised... we are getting what we paid for, anything else I would consider extra.

[Take1]

It was interesting reading this post. The original problems listed, apart from the non-charging sync cable are fixable and/or simply MS's fault. No real shockers there....

What surprised me was the cost of the screen repair and the pathetic customer service FS -provides. Always good to know about a company's support behavior when considering one of their devices!

[Duncan]

This is a difficult one.

I would certainly dispute that the Loox screen is very fragile, or that the FirstLoox forums are filling up with broken screens. Neither reflects the facts (indeed - I've seen the official stats and, while I can't quote them to you, repair rates - even warranty repairs - are very low).

That said it is a great shame that the cost of replacing a screen is so high for anyone. My understanding is that is really is that expensive for the company to do (and screens are not covered under standard warrantys). it has to do precisely with the econimies of scale in specially ordering screens as replacements as opposed to ordering in bulk when units are produced en masse - plus labour costs etc.

Generally such breakages are covered under home insurance so it simply isn't an issue (I've broken two screens out of c. 13 Pocket PCs over the years and both times paid no more than the £50 insurance excess - one was a Loox 600 that fell, with me, down the stairs).

The norm then is that FSC don't lose out, and the buyer has a relatively small cost and a little inconvenience.

Where this particular situation is problematic is that the buyer is in the US - so I'm guessing that home insurance won't cover it. Fujitsu USA (who do have an agreement to honour FSC warrantees but are a separate company) seem to be a less than stellar organisation when it comes to responding to people. I know that FSC are not happy with them on this either - but they're kind of stuck with each other.

That leaves the full cost of repair to be borne and the need to return to the UK.

Not a happy situation I'll grant you - but not really one where FSC are actually the bad guys (yeah - I know that Dell offer a full repair service - but there are reasons they are able to bear that loss) - even though I can see how they look like it when you are the one facing the huge expense.

[Menneisyys]

The First Look forum is starting to fill with broken screen reports. They are very fragile. :(

I would certainly debate this. A guy over at www.ppc-welt.info has dropped his loox 720 4 times on concrete (see the 30.07.2005, 22:20:45 post here (http://www.ppc-welt.info/community/showthread.php?t=72369) - German), another guy over at PDAMania.hu has dropped it 4 times, last time without even a case, the screen facing down, on concrete - no damage (see post number 70 here (http://www.pdamania.hu/forum/forum1.php3?topic=11119&y=10&x=10) - Hungarian).

Furthermore, Neo 720 and Oxy42 over at FirstLoox (see here (http://www.firstloox.org//forums/showthread.php?t=4288) - English at last) have also dropped his PL720 while in case - no problems at all.

So, it just can't be said the screen of the PL720 is more fragile than those of other PDA's. The more frequency of threads like 'how to get a new screen' over at FL is because people outside Europe have a hard time getting a replacement screen and also post on forums to inquire where to get the screens from. Users of other, domestic models (HP, Dell for people from the US) don't need to publicly ask for screen sources - they only need to call their reps.