Phoenix FirstWare Assistant 2004: Turn Your Laptop into a PDA...?

[Pat Logsdon]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?ContentId=3660' target='_blank'>http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.a...?ContentId=3660</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Phoenix Technologies Ltd. announced Phoenix FirstWare Assistant 2004, a software in the "Pre-OS" category. FirstWare Assistant 2004 gives users instant access to their Microsoft Outlook functions without having to wait to "boot" the PC, making it ideal when a user needs quick access to PIM details available on Microsoft Outlook. With this software, users can access e-mail, calendar appointments, task lists and contacts within seconds of hitting the computer start key or a pre-programmed button that launches the application. The software kicks in before the operating system (OS) and other applications boot up. The process takes roughly 10 seconds."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/logsdon_20041115_phoenix.gif" /><br /><br />While the idea is certainly intriguing, I just can't picture myself suavely whipping out my T40 to impress the ladies with my PIM data. It's not exactly fast, either, as it takes a full 10 seconds for the information to pop up. That's enough time to turn on my 4150, check my appointments and start playing The Secret of Monkey Island. Still, there could be something I'm missing here. <a href="http://www.phoenix.com/en/Products/Trusted+Applications/Phoenix+FirstWare/FirstWare+Assistant/default.htm">Is there?</a> Convince me, people. ;)

[tadams]

If you don't have a PDA, then 10 seconds to get your PIM info is pretty good...

[jkendrick]

This is the killer app (if well done) for the OQO, Sony U series, and other ultra-portable computers. I have requested an evaluation of the program so we'll see.

[silver99]

Don't forget the time it takes to unzip your notebook case and unstrap the unit. Laptops will never be as convenient as PDAs. Try standing and working on a laptop/notebook (practically impossible).

Convergence is good on somethings and terrible on others. It's nice to see quicker boot times or the idea of instant on on a PC but it's still a ways off.

[Ryan Joseph]

Pat, where'd you find Monkey Island for PPC? 8O

[Pat Logsdon]

Pat, where'd you find Monkey Island for PPC? 8O
If you own the original software, you can copy the files to your PPC and play them with the SCUMMVM (http://www.scummvm.org/downloads.php)emulator. :mrgreen:

[Ryan Joseph]

If you own the original software, you can copy the files to your PPC and play them with the SCUMMVM (http://www.scummvm.org/downloads.php)emulator. :mrgreen:

Dude, you just made my day. I can't wait to get home and try that! Awesome.

[Perry Reed]

This is the killer app (if well done) for the OQO, Sony U series, and other ultra-portable computers. I have requested an evaluation of the program so we'll see.

I agree! For something like the OQO, this could nicely bridge the gap between PC and PDA.

However, I would imagine that with the OQO, I'd suspend or hibernate it more often than shut it down. When I turn it back on, I wonder if this software would come up, or would it work only before a cold boot?

I hope you'll share with us the results of your evaluation. It sounds like they're positioning the software for PC manufacturers moreso than individual users, so if it ends up working well, I hope they make it available in the retail channel.

[Mark Johnson]

I am all for this! I've become convinced that the PPC will NEVER become what I am hoping for - a true notebook replacement. Microsoft has clearly limited the functionality of the PPC with the obvious intent of making sure it cannot even get close to being a threat to WindowsXP license sales. The PPC will ALWAYS be a "dumb little brother" of a desktop OS, as Microsoft envisons it. Always a "partner device" and never a computer in it's own right.

So I'm one who would love to see XP shrink to OQO, U70, Antelope devices. One API, one set of apps, one set of data file formats. (Death to .pwi to .doc conversion! Death to .pxl to .xls conversion! Give me REAL .xls, .doc, .mdb access! I want PhotoShop on my PDA!

Since this will never happen by the PPC "growing up" (as MS won't allow that) we'll only get there if XP "shrinks down" (as in OQO.)

And of course the laughable instability of XP's supsend/resume means that we need another solution. Way to go Phoenix!

Put this on an OQO and I'm ready to take it for a spin! 10 seconds is long, but this really is a 1.0 release right? That should go down...

[Judgeless]

A PPC takes a lot longer to boot then 10 seconds from a soft reset or hard reset. Because of this long boot time PPC puts the CPU/device in standby. Standby consumes a small about of power but allows an instant on affect for the device. For the last 4-5 years laptops have been doing the same thing. Laptops today can come out of standby in less then 1 second and stay in standby for more then 30 days at a time. I do not understand the market they are going after. Maybe devices that are powered off for months at a time and need to boot fast. A PPC is not good at that either.

[saljamex]

I had this application when I used the TC1000 COMPAQ TabletPC (Well, different name, but same use) It came pre installed

[Perry Reed]

I had this application when I used the TC1000 COMPAQ TabletPC (Well, different name, but same use) It came pre installed

And??? :)

How was it? Was it useful? How quickly did it come up?

[Sven Johannsen]

I've become convinced that the PPC will NEVER become what I am hoping for - a true notebook replacement. Microsoft has clearly limited the functionality of the PPC with the obvious intent of making sure it cannot even get close to being a threat to WindowsXP license sales....

That doesn't really wash, as a PPC that supported it would only increase XP license sales, and that of Office, etc as well. Right now they aren't making a killing selling the OS to the OEMs. I don't see MS having a vested interest in reigning in the PPC.

The hardware to support an XP based PPC isn't quite there yet at a pricepoint that will sell with a mass market. Remember OQO and FipStart are in the $2000 range, even now. Developing a PDA/PPC business with a $2K device competing with sub $300 Palms wasn't going to go anywhere had it even been possible 4 years ago. It still won't.

[Felix Torres]

I had this application when I used the TC1000 COMPAQ TabletPC (Well, different name, but same use) It came pre installed

And??? :)

How was it? Was it useful? How quickly did it come up?

Dunno 'bout Mr Reed but I uninstalled it from my TC1000.
Gotta remember, it's just a display of outlook data; not full outlook...
How often do you merely look at your today screen?
Speed was good; its the functionality that killed it for me.
Of course, I get alot of email with attachments; usually office docs...

[Jon Westfall]

I had this application when I used the TC1000 COMPAQ TabletPC (Well, different name, but same use) It came pre installed

I had the meaning of life once... but I'm not going to tell you about it.

Just kidding.

I really don't see a point to this software. My Pocket PC primarily functions as a PIM already, and its a heck of a lot more user friendly.

[jkendrick]

According to Phoenix the FirstWare Assistant consists of two parts- Outlook viewer and Outlook editor so you can actually manipulate your data in some fashion.

I will have the s/w this week to have a look at it. It sounds like it is a s/w only solution but I don't how they would do that.

[IpaqMan2]

I am all for this! I've become convinced that the PPC will NEVER become what I am hoping for - a true notebook replacement. Microsoft has clearly limited the functionality of the PPC with the obvious intent of making sure it cannot even get close to being a threat to WindowsXP license sales. The PPC will ALWAYS be a "dumb little brother" of a desktop OS, as Microsoft envisons it. Always a "partner device" and never a computer in it's own right.

I agree with you here... As much as I like PDAs and use them in my life, I'd trade all that techno in to have a true laptop replacement that was extremely portable and would be able to give me instant access to the information I need.

[ipaq_wannabe]

I am all for this! I've become convinced that the PPC will NEVER become what I am hoping for - a true notebook replacement. Microsoft has clearly limited the functionality of the PPC with the obvious intent of making sure it cannot even get close to being a threat to WindowsXP license sales. The PPC will ALWAYS be a "dumb little brother" of a desktop OS, as Microsoft envisons it. Always a "partner device" and never a computer in it's own right.

I agree with you here... As much as I like PDAs and use them in my life, I'd trade all that techno in to have a true laptop replacement that was extremely portable and would be able to give me instant access to the information I need.

we will get there

maybe not in the next year

but we will get there - minituarization is just the wave of the future

-@PIE@Loox

[Gen-M]

I've become convinced that the PPC will NEVER become what I am hoping for - a true notebook replacement. Microsoft has clearly limited the functionality of the PPC with the obvious intent of making sure it cannot even get close to being a threat to WindowsXP license sales....

That doesn't really wash, as a PPC that supported it would only increase XP license sales, and that of Office, etc as well. Right now they aren't making a killing selling the OS to the OEMs. I don't see MS having a vested interest in reigning in the PPC.

The hardware to support an XP based PPC isn't quite there yet at a pricepoint that will sell with a mass market. Remember OQO and FipStart are in the $2000 range, even now. Developing a PDA/PPC business with a $2K device competing with sub $300 Palms wasn't going to go anywhere had it even been possible 4 years ago. It still won't.

The hardware won't support a true XP, but that is no excuse for not upgrading Office apps in the last four years. It's the functionality we need, not the OS.

[Kati Compton]

While the idea is certainly intriguing, I just can't picture myself suavely whipping out my T40 to impress the ladies with my PIM data.
Don't be dissin' my T40...

[Pat Logsdon]

While the idea is certainly intriguing, I just can't picture myself suavely whipping out my T40 to impress the ladies with my PIM data.
Don't be dissin' my T40...
No hatin' intended, but if Vaja doesn't make a case for it, it doesn't get carried around. ;)

Hmmm....a Vaja case for my T40...

[twalk]

I've become convinced that the PPC will NEVER become what I am hoping for - a true notebook replacement. Microsoft has clearly limited the functionality of the PPC with the obvious intent of making sure it cannot even get close to being a threat to WindowsXP license sales....

That doesn't really wash, as a PPC that supported it would only increase XP license sales, and that of Office, etc as well. Right now they aren't making a killing selling the OS to the OEMs. I don't see MS having a vested interest in reigning in the PPC.

The hardware to support an XP based PPC isn't quite there yet at a pricepoint that will sell with a mass market. Remember OQO and FipStart are in the $2000 range, even now. Developing a PDA/PPC business with a $2K device competing with sub $300 Palms wasn't going to go anywhere had it even been possible 4 years ago. It still won't.


There's every indication that most PPCs are still sold to businesses. I can assure you, that if a XP running handheld were to come out for &lt;$1000, most of these companies would stop buying $300 PPCs. A full PC is just that much more powerful, it's one less platform to worry about, and internal development doesn't have to worry about making PPC versions of PC programs anymore. (ie, it can save money in other ways.)

The hardware is cheap enough right now that if some company wanted to make a $1000 (sale price) XP handheld, they could do it. However until MS makes a stripped and optimized version of XP for that size device, it won't perform well (ie, niche market for the device, so they'll need to charge more...). MS would have great incentive to do this, since they could charge $150 or so for stripped and optimized versions of XP, Word, and Excel. (Compared to their $10 or so they get for the Pocket versions.)

In the very, very near future, we'll see low cost/low power 640x480 &amp; 800x600 PDA sized OLEDs, flash will continue to get cheaper (AMD quad flash), and both Intel &amp; AMD are currently working on super low cost/low power/small space x86 chips for consumer devices (ie, they want ARM's market...).

If MS would push it, we could easily see these things by next Xmas.

[Mark Johnson]

I've become convinced that the PPC will NEVER become what I am hoping for - a true notebook replacement. Microsoft has clearly limited the functionality of the PPC with the obvious intent of making sure it cannot even get close to being a threat to WindowsXP license sales....

That doesn't really wash, as a PPC that supported it would only increase XP license sales, and that of Office, etc as well. Right now they aren't making a killing selling the OS to the OEMs. I don't see MS having a vested interest in reigning in the PPC.

The hardware to support an XP based PPC isn't quite there yet at a pricepoint that will sell with a mass market. Remember OQO and FipStart are in the $2000 range, even now. Developing a PDA/PPC business with a $2K device competing with sub $300 Palms wasn't going to go anywhere had it even been possible 4 years ago. It still won't.

The hardware won't support a true XP, but that is no excuse for not upgrading Office apps in the last four years. It's the functionality we need, not the OS.

Gen-M is right on track with what I'm trying to say here. Microsoft has had PLENTY of opportunities to go to make minor technical changes to the PPC platform that would have made major improvements in it's utility.

With real .doc, .xls, and .mdb support, there would be a fair number of credible scenarios where current notebook users could ditch them and carry only a PPC. I'm personally convinced this is one of the reasons why a Microsoft PPC with bluetooth still can't be used with the Microsoft Bluetooth Keyboard! MS has completely slacked on implementing BT HID support and I believe that its not an oversight, its not a significant development challenge, its an intentional strategic choice to keep us from gettng to a future where your $300 PPC (with a $10 WinCE license) can actually do the things you now need a $2000 notebook (with a $50 WinXP license) to do.

I'll admit I'm on my soapbox now, but we don't need faster hardware or larger storage to get .doc, .xls, .mdb, etc. support. My crummy Windows95 Pentium 120mhz desktop had less CPU, RAM and drive space than my PPC, but I could open/edit/save .mdb files on it and after many long years I still can't on my PPC. It had USB host support but my PPC still doesn't!

Microsoft is keeping the PPC down man! You dig what I'm saying brother? We gotta rise up and free our minds! Power to the people!
:soapbox:

[Sven Johannsen]

The hardware won't support a true XP, but that is no excuse for not upgrading Office apps in the last four years. .

Sure there is. Unless you think the software writes itself, where is the return on the investment. Applying significant resources to a project that would likely have little effect on the sales isn't good business. It's not like there has been no progress. Since we started we got built in networking, WiFi, BT, Landscape support among other things. TRanscriber has been improved, there is a new SIP, media player has gotten better, there is a new image viewer... Maybe these didn't mean much to you, but I'm sure they didn't spin a wheel of fortune at MS to decide what to concentrate on. MS didn't get where they are by totally ignoring the market.

Remember that WM2003SE is primarily a platform. The MS included apps aren't that much different than the included apps when you buy XP, relatively speaking. You don't get Office with XP, you have to buy it. Why do you expect it for free on a PPC. Please don't counter with "I cant buy it". Not from MS no, but TextMaker, PlanMaker, SprintDB, PocketSlides...altogether they are less than a copy of Office, and they aren't the only options.

It's the functionality we need, not the OS.
Nothing is stopping you from buying that functionality.

[Gen-M]

Nothing is stopping you from buying that functionality.

I will. I will keep using the 3 PPC2002 PPCs I carry, along with the laptop that I also have to carry, but I will not buy another.

My next purchase will be an X86 compatible machine that is pocketable (or at least able to hang off a belt).

Your market argument is a self fulfilling argument - if it is not available then people will not buy it - even if third parties have almost the same thing.

[Judgeless]

According to Phoenix the FirstWare Assistant consists of two parts- Outlook viewer and Outlook editor so you can actually manipulate your data in some fashion.

I will have the s/w this week to have a look at it. It sounds like it is a s/w only solution but I don't how they would do that.
Why would someone spend time to try this software? Go into the control panel and enable standby on your PC/Laptop. The device will come out of standby in 1 second and if Outlook is open it takes another second to go from contacts to calendars.

A PPC takes a lot longer to boot then 10 seconds from a soft reset or hard reset. Because of this long boot time PPC puts the CPU/device in standby. Standby consumes a small about of power but allows an instant on affect for the device. For the last 4-5 years laptops have been doing the same thing. Laptops today can come out of standby in less then 1 second and stay in standby for more then 30 days at a time. I do not understand the market they are going after. Maybe devices that are powered off for months at a time and need to boot fast. A PPC is not good at that either.

[heyya]

What is the big deal about this? This functionality already exists natively in windows by activating the standby. It is way faster than 10 seconds and you have access to all your apps.

[dMores]

and once again i feel great to be using a mac powerbook.

(oh no, not the mac-geek again :) )

while i'm told pc notebooks have a "suspend" feature, i guess not a lot of people are actually using it. if it's like the apple "wakeup" feature, then it's a blessing.

when i close the lid, my mac goes to sleep. sucks battery (roughly 10-15 percent overnight), but whenever i open the lid up again, my computer is up and running in under 1 second.
takes about 2 more seconds for wifi to connect, when i put it to sleep in the office and wake it up at home.

i still don't carry it on my palm to enter phone numbers or appointments when i'm out and about, though.

[Judgeless]

while i'm told pc notebooks have a "suspend" feature, i guess not a lot of people are actually using it. if it's like the apple "wakeup" feature, then it's a blessing.
You are correct a lot of people with PC notebooks do not use the suspend feature. I convert about 10 people a month. Once they start using it they never go back. PC’s work the same way, 1 second out of standby and about 2 seconds more for WiFi. 10-15% a night in power loss sounds very high. I lose about 5% a night on my IBM T40.

i still don't carry it on my palm to enter phone numbers or appointments when i'm out and about, though.
I use what ever is convenient. My laptop syncs with both my PDA and Cell Phone. All three contain the same Outlook contact, appointment and task data all the time