Home wiring - hot and neutral reversed?

[ctmagnus]

We're remodelling the (30+ year old) house at the moment, including power outlets and light switches and I've been going around checking all the outlets (afterwards) with my handy, dandy outlet checker. A number of outlets are reporting that their hot and neutral wires are reversed. Is there any real danger in this, particularly in regards to home electronics ie Pocket PCs and desktops/notebooks?

[christheswiss]

Not really, however, most plugs have one prong that is wider then the other, you can only insert the plug one way. This ensures, that the "hot" is getting to the correct wire in the cord. This is important (in my opinion) especially on a lamp. You do not want the "hot" on the thread portion of the lamp socket.
In any case, locking at the outlet from the front with the ground at the bottom, the "hot" should be on the right. If it is not, it is very easy to change this. Good luck... :D

[Kati Compton]

We're remodelling the (30+ year old) house at the moment, including power outlets and light switches and I've been going around checking all the outlets (afterwards) with my handy, dandy outlet checker. A number of outlets are reporting that their hot and neutral wires are reversed. Is there any real danger in this, particularly in regards to home electronics ie Pocket PCs and desktops/notebooks?
Not sure. But when I had my house inspected the guy strongly suggested we fix the backwards outlets...

[KimVette]

Not really, however, most plugs have one prong that is wider then the other, you can only insert the plug one way.

Not true.

If you have say, a polarized lamp on one leg (side of the circuit) and you touch another object plugged into the other leg, you can get zapped. It can be extremely dangerous, in fact.

Remember, A/C comes into the house at 220V, comprised of two legs which are each 110V relative to neutral/ground.

[js415]

I am an electrician by trade, and I can tell you that you should swap the Hot and Neutral wires on the recepticles.

For the most part, you may never know or see the difference, however, with that said, it can create a problem down the line.

As some of your recepticles are on the same circuit, and if the time comes to work on one of them, you are sticking your hands in a very dangerous situation. Backfeeding a circuit can be a real problem causer!!

In terms of electronics, some items have the ability to check for proper voltage/orientation. It is possible that one or more items may not work. I have seen it happen in commercial applications.

As suggested before, it is very easy to fix. Be sure and turn the breakers off before swapping your leads.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Jerry

[ctmagnus]

Let me know if you have any questions.

Jerry

Since you asked... ;)

There are three receptacles like that (that I know of). One of them is a standard outlet and should be easy enough to fix but the other two are controlled by a switch and have four wires each (or so the "electrician" said; I haven't actually seen the wiring for these two). How do you go about wiring these correctly?

[Tracy Daubenspeck]

The best way to figure out how to fix the odd ball recepticals is to get a book from the library. They usually have several to choose from.

Also, if you plug one piece of electronic gear into a reversed outlet and one into another that is not reversed. Say a stereo into one and your computer into another and then connect an audio cable between the two, you can fry something.

[famousdavis]

Interesting topic!

One of my bedrooms has the kids' computer in it. In that room, most of the outlets cause the APC UPS to light up the "Faulty Wiring" indicator. The outlets seem to work properly, though, so I didn't give it much thought, and have the kids' computer plugged in to the one outlet that isn't a problem.

I wonder if it's just a matter of swapping the leads to the outlet? Probably wouldn't hurt to try, huh?

[ctmagnus]

I wonder if it's just a matter of swapping the leads to the outlet? Probably wouldn't hurt to try, huh?

That's what I'm hoping. I've never wired any outlets before and aside from flipping them off at the circuit breaker beforehand, I don't know much about working on them.

[Sven Johannsen]

One thing I do want to point out to folks that are familiar with electronics but not electricity. In most electronics wiring you have come to expect the black wire in a power pair to be the ground/return/neutral, whatever you want to call it. In house wiring the black wire is hot..the white is neutral, not ground BTW..neutral. Getting a basics of wiring book at your local home improvement store should fill all that in, but that is a very easy incorrect assumption to make if your an electronics kind of guy.

[ctmagnus]

I swapped the wires around and all outlets are yellow-yellow now :) .

But of course, looking at the back of the outlet, the three outlets in question are all labeled "hot wire" on one side and "black wire" on the other. :roll: It was just a matter of matching things up.

[Sven Johannsen]

That makes me wonder. Are you saying the hot and black wires aren't the same? Is Canada different than the US in standard AC wiring?

[js415]

Thats odd!!

The neutral should always be the white wire, unless of course, standards are different outside the US.

A very good point was made, in that "electronics" and "electricity" are two very differnet animals!!

Also that the "ground" and "neutral" are NOT the same thing.

In a circuit that has NO load on it, the neutral can still be energized. In a circuit that has ANY LOAD on it, the more LOAD ( the more curren)t, a neutral can be a very deadly wire to touch.

The neutral is the return path to your panel for all the "LOADS" in that circuit.

So, you touch a HOT (Black) wire with your finger, you get a pretty good jolt. You grab hold of a "LOADED UP NEUTRAL", and you might get the top of your head blown off!!

I have seen buys hit a Loaded Neutral by mistake, in a commercial setting, and watched them fly back 10-15 feet before they stopped moving!!

Glad you were able to get yours fixed so easily.

Jerry

[KimVette]

Let me know if you have any questions.

Jerry

Since you asked... ;)

There are three receptacles like that (that I know of). One of them is a standard outlet and should be easy enough to fix but the other two are controlled by a switch and have four wires each (or so the "electrician" said; I haven't actually seen the wiring for these two). How do you go about wiring these correctly?

generally, black is hot and white is neutral (and bare or green is ground). White should be 0 volts with respect to ground, and black should be 110, 117, or 120V with respect to ground, depending on your local electric company. Also, resistance between neutral and ground should be as close to 0 ohms as possible. If the resistance is high on neutral-ground, you need to have your service (breaker box) checked to ensure that neutral and ground are tied together properly.

On a typical three-prong outlet, the "hot" lead is the narrow blade, the "neutral" lead is the wide blade, and 'ground' is the rounded lead.

[KimVette]

Thats odd!!

The neutral should always be the white wire, unless of course, standards are different outside the US.

That is always true of outlets, however is not true when dealing with three-way and four-way light switches. The feed to the receptacle or fixture should ALWAYS be black for "hot" and white for "neutral" but the 'hot' or 'neutral' state of the runs between three-way and four-way switches will vary depending on switch position.

In other words: if in doubt, TEST the lead, or turn off the electrical service while working.

[Sven Johannsen]

On a typical three-prong outlet, the "hot" lead is the narrow blade, the "neutral" lead is the wide blade, and 'ground' is the rounded lead.

And barring labelling on the outlet, like black and white, or hot and neutral, the black wire goes on the brass screws, and the white on the silver ones, if you don't have the push in types. That's all very true in the US.

The discussion stemmed from CTMagnus's statement, "the three outlets in question are all labeled "hot wire" on one side and "black wire" on the other" That's backwards, unless we misunderstood it. Is that a typo, or is Canada really backwards from the US?

[js415]

Kim,

I agree with you 100%, you are right on. To keep things the simplest right now, I did not even mention how tough it is to keep the wires straight on 3 or 4 way switches, etc.

I was really only refering to the original statement about the markings he found on the back of the recepticles.

I'm curious now as to what exactly is the standard outside the US. Maybe we can get this question answered so I can sleep good at night!!

Kim, on a side note, I have read a ton of your posts, and you sure have a boat load of knowledge about a lot of stuff!! And I mean that in the most complimentary way!!

I started reading your thoughts about some of your past Vettes, and got so confused, I had to give up!!

I bet you are a lot of fun to be around when the guys all start showing off, and you bring them back down to earth real quick!!

Jerry